kosh2258

How did the renderings compare to the photo shop that was done applying the precision concept design to a TLX?

I thought the photo shop job was probably on the conservative side, that the actual TLX revisions would be more aggressive.

alpha0

Nexx- I was thinking about Type S new engine you mentioned. I am not sure whether Acura will start using longitudinal mounting from FMC of RLX/TLX but they may do so as per precision concept. In that situation, will they develop a new engine for Type S for transverse mounitng for 1-2 years till FMC of TLX? Why would they do that?

And if they develop a new transverse engine, i assume they will continue that lauout even after complete redesign.

iutodd

With their SUVs almost certainly remaining transverse models - there is no performance or financial incentive for them to switch really - developing a new transverse engine almost has to happen. I don't think the 2.0T works for the MDX just from an image perspective and the J is getting older and older. The J is rumored to stick around in the Accord and surely it's going to stay in the Odyssey/Ridge/Pilot for the foreseeable future - with the 10AT I think Honda can make it work for CAFE - Honda's Light Truck average for MY2014 (the most recent year available) was 29.8 - that already meets the standard for MY2018. The MY2021 standard is 32.6 - but with increased wheelbases, the 10AT and a hybrid or two I think Honda will be fine.

The talked about I5 makes a TON of sense for Acura IMO. It can be mounted in all of their cars, it can be turbo'ed to over 350 hp, and it's added displacement works better for bigger cars. It also could be used in naturally aspirated form as the base engine in the ILX/TLX. This would immediately help elevate those vehicles from their Honda counterparts - and it makes Type-S versions pretty easy to imagine - just put the turbo on.

alpha0

So will this I5 be longitudinal or transverse for TLX/RLX? what my point is if acura wants to change engine layout, it will happen only with FMC. So they wont create new engine just for Type S. And again, why I5? Why not 6 cylinder? With their brand recognition, they will just create sense of inferior product by having I5 compared to 6 cylinder turbos they are trying to compete.

alpha0

Also if they want to create some splash, they need to provide more powerful engines at time of FMC along with precision concept looks. Why would they use that engine year or two early for type s?

Saintor

I owned an I5 Turbo and always wondered what it was doing better than a NA 6. You could say the same with the recent Volvo.

At least the I5 are doing better noises than the I4.

Nexx

the rendering were very early stage almost cartoonish looking so its hard to say. similar to the photoshop. the grill on the rendering looked a bit smaller than the photoshop

Nexx

we didnt get that much information on the drive train on the Type-S unfortunately. Jon said something "significant". take that for what it's worth.

on a side note, i got back this from Ohio from the Acura Ride and drive for the NSX. got to drive it a times around a couple different tracks and got driven by a pro. the car is freaking amazing. the engineering behind it is brilliant. nothing goes to waste. the most impressive thing about it is how the NSX is able to fully utilize all the power available in almost any condition. the pro driver and i agreed that 100%

iutodd

So we know that an Acura exclusive engine has been discussed and/or has been tested because of an interview with Keiji Ohtsu in Wards Auto. And there seems to be agreement that Acura needs more power - the J is like 20 years old and is about tapped at 310 hp. Turbo'ing the J presents its own set of problems because of the Age of the engine.

So it seems like Acura has a few choices long term:

Stay transverse with SUVs/ILX and go longitudinal with TLX/RLX/possible other sporty vehicle/coupe for performance reasons.

Go longitudinal with everything above the ILX/CDX on a shared platform.

There is basically no reason for them to switch the ILX/CDX to an Acura exclusive platform given what the competition is doing in that space and how good the new Civic platform is. Also the new 2.0T and 1.5T are good enough for those vehicles.

The other thing is that I'm pretty sure an engine is direction agnostic - I don't know why the same engine wouldn't be able to work mounted both ways as long as the platform and transmission are right. I'm pretty sure that VAG uses basically the same 2.0T in both longitudinal and transverse applications for example.

And so almost no matter what Acura does they're going to have either all transverse or a mix of transverse and longitudinal mounting.

So having an engine that can work both ways makes a lot of sense from a financial perspective - it also makes sense for the Acura exclusive engine to be as widely used as possible. As in, why would Acura develop an engine that didn't work in the MDX?

Now - if Acura goes all longitudinal above the ILX including SUVs then they can do whatever they want basically: straight 6/v6 whatever and just use the 2.0T turned 90 degrees from its Honda duties as a "base" engine where needed and keep it in its transverse form for its entry level vehicles.

But there really isn't any reason for them to switch the RDX and MDX to a different platform. They already sell incredibly well and the SUV market doesn't really demand RWD performance like the sedan/coupe market. The only reason they would do it is to help recover the cost of the Acura platform - which also makes a lot of sense.

So developing an engine that would work in their transverse SUVs as well as longitudinal sedans makes a LOT of sense if that is how things shake out. An I5 fits that description because it can be mounted sideways (whereas an I6 is difficult because of its length to mount transversely) and would probably fit in everything Acura is going to make moving forward regardless of mounting direction. And a turbo'ed I5 can be pushed to over 380 hp which is, obviously, a lot more power than Acura currently offers in non-hybrid form. It also makes Type-S models pretty easy: just tune the turbo for more power (I know it's more complicated than that). And if they put a NA I5 into the ILX it would help elevate it above the Civic and really separate the brands more clearly. The I5 can also go into the TLX at the MMC - which gives Acura a performance boost immediately instead of waiting for an FMC and platform change.

An I5 isn't perfect. I'm not an engineer but I've read others talking about balance issues and, of course, it could be seen as slightly inferior to a 6 cylinder engine. And BMW is a good example of using turbo 4s as base engines and 6 cylinder turbos as high performance engines which is sort of their other option...and Acura buyers are used to getting 6 cylinders.

alpha0

@iutodd - great analysis. I feel they will try to use new platform for RDX/MDX to quickly recover the costs. My problem with I5 is very simple. If i am interested in TLX Type S, competition is with 340xi, S4, Q50 (400 hp), c450 (or c43), Jaguar XE etc. These are all 6 cyl turbo / supercharged models.

For RLX, that is against 535i, A6, XF etc. And if there is any RLX Type S, it will be compared against 550i, S6, E43 etc. And winning a customer can be more difficult with 5 cylinder engine.

If they decide to use current platform for RDX/MDX with J35 and add power using batteries, than equation can be completely different for TLX/RLX.

alpha0

Great to know about NSX, but we both know it is car for a wealthy few. I would love if NSX style and subtance trickle down to cars in 40-50k $ range.

Nexx

i was really impressed with how the rlx hybrid drove around the track.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

it's on the way

Ian Andrews

i was also at the Ohio event and was very impressed with just how good the RLX worked the track. Needless to say the NSX is over the top and more impressive than the 2016 Porsche 911 Turbo S which we also drove for reference. While at the event we heard a lot of talk about "zero delay" in a performance context. I see like the MDX, a performance version of the TLX using the sport hybrid. I've always said there has to be some form of payback for this powertrain development then just a few NSX's and RLX's. My only concern if they do go this route is trunk impact. I need to put my skis in my car and having a trunk like the RLX is a deal breaker. Guys the Sport Hybrid system is truly outstanding and i'm very sure MDX reviews will be equally outstanding now figure out the battery placement and bring it on. i'll take mine in the new Red exterior coming out for 2017.

Ian Andrews

Turbo lag is definitely better then in the past but there is still lag. I'm pulling for a full line up of shawd and sport hybrids in a performance trim moving forward. Acura has great engineers as evidenced by just how good the NSX and for that matter the RLX performs.

alpha0

For that, perception of potential buyers towards hybrids need to change. Currently hybrids are considered as vehicles which give more mileage and not better performance! Look at sales numbers of RLX SHSHAWD and compare it with any performance sedan in that category.

Ian Andrews

The RLX regardless of powertrain is not a strong seller. It will be interesting to see how the MDX does with this setup.

alpha0

There is difference. MDX (SHAWD) has performance in same range as X5, Q7, G550 etc, so it is not competitive disadvantage for MDX even without hybrid system. As per acura, hybrid improves fuel efficiency and adds some passing power in MDX. Even with hybrid, MDX is not going to be cross shopped against Cayenne or BMW X50i.

Where as TLX SHAWD with NA V6 is not competitive in class of 340xi, S4, C43, Q50, XE etc, and not sure how people will perceive if Acura tries to up the performance using hybrid system instead of poweful engine.

Ian Andrews

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm very interested in seeing how the sport hybrid MDX is received. My guess is it will be very successful.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

For the MDX I presume? We've yet to hear anything about the TLX

Texas325

Just went on the walking tour at the Marysville Honda Factory and saw the 2017 TLX. Sadly no photography was allowed and it was somewhat wrapped. There were dual round exhausts in the back like the 2G. More than likely new rear bumper cover to accomadate the two exhaust. The front end has the pentagon grill treatment like the MDX. The lower fascia is very aggressive with sport gray wheels. My buddy and I are thinking this is the top of the line model or a Type-S like since it has sporty rims.

Ian Andrews

The new red on the ILX is also going to be available on the 2017 Acura TLX. We have just order completed our VR for July with the 2017 TLX SHAWD in the mix.

quantum7

Could you see a new transmission???

carftopher

Anything new with respect to the headlights or tail lights?

Curious3GTL

Are you sure it wasn't the 2018?

Nexx

right, the 2017 tlx's will be out before the end of the year as a half year model. the tlx's coming out in the spring of 2017 will be 2018 models.

Texas325

No, I was a few feet away from it and I was stuck on the "blue path" only.
It looks like the headlights may change near new pentagon grill . By the time the tour started walking again, it was driving off to the engine/acceleration testing area. The taillight area were covered in film but it still has the same led piping from the current models.

More than likely it looks like for 2018 for the mid-cycle refresh but this thing looks production ready (painted white). Other than the front and rear bumper covered, everything looks the same.

I'm more happy that the exposed exhausts are back. The pentagon grill will be interesting to see. I wish the tour wasn't trying to push us forward when they were testing the TLX. Amazing tour if you are in the area and it's free. Worth the drive too!

Ian Andrews

Must be the 2018 TLX you saw as the trim info on the 2017 is the same as 2016. No mention of an A-Spec option. To bad it's not happening for the 2017 TLX as we need to see the changes now along with the CDX which will sell in much bigger numbers than a coupe or convertible. I still would like a coupe but we need to pay the bills first.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

Dual round exhausts when the '17 MDX/CDX/NSX all have trapezoidal exhausts? Here they go again with the inconsistent design language
Hopefully that was just the rumored A-spec version, and reserving trapezoidal quad tips for the Type-S.

Was the lower fascia anything like the prototype's?

Texas325

Well the exhaust may have been for a test but we could say it's a possibility it's a production model also. The lower fascia was blacked out in the middle almost like a Camry but it was still under wraps. The fog lights seems to be larger than the current model. The Pentagon grill was very evident under the wrap material. I was crying inside as we walked away.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

lol speculation again. didn't i tell you that my friend is the lead designer of Acura and he can't be sure what will be on the 2017 TLX.

Unless you have proof or pictures. otherwise dont be the other guys and spreading rumor here

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

Bet you were weighing the pros/cons of running over and unmasking it LOL.

That detail alone about the fog lights indicates they will still be the traditional round fogs, not the edgy ones like the protoype's

TacoBello

Just saw an Acura commercial on tv yesterday, for the 2016 TLX. I think Nexx might be right with what he is saying about the 2017 TLX release in the fall. Definitely no word on it yet, at least to the general public.

Ian Andrews

The VR (Vehicle Request) for July is completed and the 2017 TLX is on this order. Same trims for Canada as the 2016 TLX. I have a 2017 Elite TLX SHAWD already showing up on our inventory as a July build.

Texas325

Oh yeah...that and all the spares for from the parts bin. It's was an amazing tour. I wish the MDX were built in that plant so I can ask for parts (LOL). Yeah the lower fascia look like the previous gen Camry SE with larger round fogs.


From the tour, there are 60 cars in a batch. Usually same paint exterior with various interior colors/trim. Too bad we are not allow to see the others area to see or hear about the 2017 models. I know for sure, the Ohio plant workers take pride in their jobs to include welcoming feedback on their cars.

mrgold35

Any word on pushing Acura Watch Plus tech down to lower trims for +17? Any chance for a 2.4L Adv/Elite version for +17?

KeithL

Interesting, I toured the BMW plant in SC and it was amazing. BMW was able to switch car paint every few cars and features were unique one car to the next, I watched as one car may have one color interior, then the next another color. All about just in time logistics planning. They also stated that trucks were arriving with parts literally 7x24 because very little parts are kept in the plant.

Texas325

Well if your friend is the lead designer. Ask him about the white TLX with gunmetal sport wheels that were under wraps at the Marysville Factory on Tuesday conducting testing around 10-11am. I would have taken photos if they allow cameras during the factory tour. Only time we can photos was at the new Hertigage Center and outside the factory floor.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

What kind of lead designer doesn't know what'll be on a model arriving in 1-2 months?

Design/equipment changes are planned years ahead so that processes downstream (manufacturing, service training, etc) have enough time to prepare.

alpha0

Maybe, they are just rebadging 2016 as 2017 based on production schedule.