With 2017 ILX already released, is 2017 TLX coming soon?
04-26-2016, 07:08 PM
#41
04-26-2016, 08:49 PM
#44
04-27-2016, 03:04 AM
#46
06 TL 6MT + 18 ATS-V 8AT
iTrader: (2)
310hp needs to be the new base V6 output, since 290hp just barely cuts it with the competition (340i, S4, C450/C43, IS350, Q50 3.0T non-red sport). Or is the TLX V6 supposed to compete with the 328i, A4, C300, IS250?
It's fine to be a "tweener" as there's a market for those, but if they want to be considered Tier 1 they need to meet/exceed the competition AND beat them on value.
For consistency, A-spec should continue being a suspension/appearance trim, and Type-S adds all that plus powertrain upgrades...similar to S/F/M-sport models and their real S/F/M counterparts.
It's fine to be a "tweener" as there's a market for those, but if they want to be considered Tier 1 they need to meet/exceed the competition AND beat them on value.
For consistency, A-spec should continue being a suspension/appearance trim, and Type-S adds all that plus powertrain upgrades...similar to S/F/M-sport models and their real S/F/M counterparts.
04-27-2016, 10:06 AM
#47
310hp needs to be the new base V6 output, since 290hp just barely cuts it with the competition (340i, S4, C450/C43, IS350, Q50 3.0T non-red sport). Or is the TLX V6 supposed to compete with the 328i, A4, C300, IS250?
It's fine to be a "tweener" as there's a market for those, but if they want to be considered Tier 1 they need to meet/exceed the competition AND beat them on value.
For consistency, A-spec should continue being a suspension/appearance trim, and Type-S adds all that plus powertrain upgrades...similar to S/F/M-sport models and their real S/F/M counterparts.
It's fine to be a "tweener" as there's a market for those, but if they want to be considered Tier 1 they need to meet/exceed the competition AND beat them on value.
For consistency, A-spec should continue being a suspension/appearance trim, and Type-S adds all that plus powertrain upgrades...similar to S/F/M-sport models and their real S/F/M counterparts.
The IS 350 "competes" with those above vehicles because it's handling is very good - in straight line speed it lags behind by the same full second compared to the 340 (basically 5.5 seconds to 4.5 seconds). The TLX can't compete handling wise mainly because of physics and the weight balance disadvantages of the Transverse FF plank. So what does Acura really want to compete with here? Put it another way - what do they gain by putting the 310 hp J into the FWD V6 TLX starting at $36K?
I think the TLX has been a good car for Acura so far - they absolutely needed it sales wise and it has delivered for them on dealer lots with over 47,000 units sold last year. But the car can't really stay where it is if Acura is going to move it's image upwards.
I think the I4 TLX will stick around after the MMC because it's popular but I'd have to believe that Acura wants people spending under $35K to mainly be looking at the ILX. The next-gen ILX also might not be here by the time the MMC hits so Acura needs the TLX I4 to stay around for a few more years in that pricing space for volume.
If I'm Acura the main cars I want to compete against are the 328/C300/A4 2.0T - which all start in the mid-$30s. Those are the best selling cars on the market. Right now they have the 290 hp FWD TLX V6 in that slot and it isn't super desirable or all that exciting nor does it perform all that well. I think replacing the FWD V6 TLX with a SHAWD 2.0T TLX with around 265 hp and 260 lb-ft is the way to go here. That vehicle starting at $35-37K would be MUCH more desirable than the FWD V6 is. I also think it would be about as fast given the 2.0Ts advantages in torque delivery - the competition is all sort of in that mid/high 5 second range...I think the TLX SHAWD 2.0T would be right in line with those numbers. I think that car makes a LOT more sense than a 310 hp FWD V6 does in the same pricing slot.
The tricky part is what would be "above" that car. If Acura can get a 310 hp SHAWD TLX to 60 in around 5 flat somehow then I'd be on board. I think it's probably possible with the right tires and the right gearing and launch but I'm probably being optimistic. It would still be slower than the 340/S4 but at $42/46K it's got enough of a price advantage that I think it'd be OK (it would be faster than the IS350/ATS 3.6)...and it's kind of the best Acura can do right now with the Transverse FF plank.
There is also the Sport Hybrid...but I'm not sold on Acura making those cars the "top dog" performance variants and it wouldn't really have a comp, it would be a tweener AND a hybrid and it doesn't really do what Acura wants at 377 hp and a likely $45-50K price tag. The 400 hp Q50 red Sport starts at $49K for instance and that will blow the Sport Hybrid out of the water for the same price.
Long story short, Acura needs a new engine if they REALLY want to compete with the competition you mention (340/S4/C450). They probably also need a new plank for the TLX with better balance.
But that stuff probably won't happen until the FMC at the earliest. So they have to kind of do whatever they can do here. Again the 328i, C300, A4 2.0t are the best selling luxury sedans on the market. I think dropping a SHAWD 2.0T into the TLX lineup as a "replacement" for the FWD V6 ups their performance image and gives them a better weapon to compete against the those vehicles than the TLX V6 FWD does. And actually having a 310 hp J on top works OK IF they can somehow get the straight-line speed fast enough. It also sets them up for the next-gen...dropping the I4 and adding a 2WD 2.0T at $33/34K as the new "base" TLX, and putting some kind of turbo 5/6 on top which would probably only be rated at 310-320 hp anyways.
Plus the TLX can just get tightened up all around I think. Better tires and brakes along with dropping the 9AT for a more traditional slush box will help the base cars perform better.
I agree with your A-Spec/Type-S distinctions. A-spec should be suspension/appearance. Type-S adds power (and brakes).
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Curious3GTL (04-27-2016)
04-27-2016, 11:28 AM
#48
A TLX with the 310 hp J isn't necessarily going to compete any better against the S4/340/C450 than the 290 hp TLX does. The S4/340/C450 are a full second faster than the TLX V6 SHAWD to 60.
The IS 350 "competes" with those above vehicles because it's handling is very good - in straight line speed it lags behind by the same full second compared to the 340 (basically 5.5 seconds to 4.5 seconds). The TLX can't compete handling wise mainly because of physics and the weight balance disadvantages of the Transverse FF plank. So what does Acura really want to compete with here? Put it another way - what do they gain by putting the 310 hp J into the FWD V6 TLX starting at $36K?
I think the TLX has been a good car for Acura so far - they absolutely needed it sales wise and it has delivered for them on dealer lots with over 47,000 units sold last year. But the car can't really stay where it is if Acura is going to move it's image upwards.
I think the I4 TLX will stick around after the MMC because it's popular but I'd have to believe that Acura wants people spending under $35K to mainly be looking at the ILX. The next-gen ILX also might not be here by the time the MMC hits so Acura needs the TLX I4 to stay around for a few more years in that pricing space for volume.
If I'm Acura the main cars I want to compete against are the 328/C300/A4 2.0T - which all start in the mid-$30s. Those are the best selling cars on the market. Right now they have the 290 hp FWD TLX V6 in that slot and it isn't super desirable or all that exciting nor does it perform all that well. I think replacing the FWD V6 TLX with a SHAWD 2.0T TLX with around 265 hp and 260 lb-ft is the way to go here. That vehicle starting at $35-37K would be MUCH more desirable than the FWD V6 is. I also think it would be about as fast given the 2.0Ts advantages in torque delivery - the competition is all sort of in that mid/high 5 second range...I think the TLX SHAWD 2.0T would be right in line with those numbers. I think that car makes a LOT more sense than a 310 hp FWD V6 does in the same pricing slot.
The tricky part is what would be "above" that car. If Acura can get a 310 hp SHAWD TLX to 60 in around 5 flat somehow then I'd be on board. I think it's probably possible with the right tires and the right gearing and launch but I'm probably being optimistic. It would still be slower than the 340/S4 but at $42/46K it's got enough of a price advantage that I think it'd be OK (it would be faster than the IS350/ATS 3.6)...and it's kind of the best Acura can do right now with the Transverse FF plank.
There is also the Sport Hybrid...but I'm not sold on Acura making those cars the "top dog" performance variants and it wouldn't really have a comp, it would be a tweener AND a hybrid and it doesn't really do what Acura wants at 377 hp and a likely $45-50K price tag. The 400 hp Q50 red Sport starts at $49K for instance and that will blow the Sport Hybrid out of the water for the same price.
Long story short, Acura needs a new engine if they REALLY want to compete with the competition you mention (340/S4/C450). They probably also need a new plank for the TLX with better balance.
But that stuff probably won't happen until the FMC at the earliest. So they have to kind of do whatever they can do here. Again the 328i, C300, A4 2.0t are the best selling luxury sedans on the market. I think dropping a SHAWD 2.0T into the TLX lineup as a "replacement" for the FWD V6 ups their performance image and gives them a better weapon to compete against the those vehicles than the TLX V6 FWD does. And actually having a 310 hp J on top works OK IF they can somehow get the straight-line speed fast enough. It also sets them up for the next-gen...dropping the I4 and adding a 2WD 2.0T at $33/34K as the new "base" TLX, and putting some kind of turbo 5/6 on top which would probably only be rated at 310-320 hp anyways.
Plus the TLX can just get tightened up all around I think. Better tires and brakes along with dropping the 9AT for a more traditional slush box will help the base cars perform better.
I agree with your A-Spec/Type-S distinctions. A-spec should be suspension/appearance. Type-S adds power (and brakes).
The IS 350 "competes" with those above vehicles because it's handling is very good - in straight line speed it lags behind by the same full second compared to the 340 (basically 5.5 seconds to 4.5 seconds). The TLX can't compete handling wise mainly because of physics and the weight balance disadvantages of the Transverse FF plank. So what does Acura really want to compete with here? Put it another way - what do they gain by putting the 310 hp J into the FWD V6 TLX starting at $36K?
I think the TLX has been a good car for Acura so far - they absolutely needed it sales wise and it has delivered for them on dealer lots with over 47,000 units sold last year. But the car can't really stay where it is if Acura is going to move it's image upwards.
I think the I4 TLX will stick around after the MMC because it's popular but I'd have to believe that Acura wants people spending under $35K to mainly be looking at the ILX. The next-gen ILX also might not be here by the time the MMC hits so Acura needs the TLX I4 to stay around for a few more years in that pricing space for volume.
If I'm Acura the main cars I want to compete against are the 328/C300/A4 2.0T - which all start in the mid-$30s. Those are the best selling cars on the market. Right now they have the 290 hp FWD TLX V6 in that slot and it isn't super desirable or all that exciting nor does it perform all that well. I think replacing the FWD V6 TLX with a SHAWD 2.0T TLX with around 265 hp and 260 lb-ft is the way to go here. That vehicle starting at $35-37K would be MUCH more desirable than the FWD V6 is. I also think it would be about as fast given the 2.0Ts advantages in torque delivery - the competition is all sort of in that mid/high 5 second range...I think the TLX SHAWD 2.0T would be right in line with those numbers. I think that car makes a LOT more sense than a 310 hp FWD V6 does in the same pricing slot.
The tricky part is what would be "above" that car. If Acura can get a 310 hp SHAWD TLX to 60 in around 5 flat somehow then I'd be on board. I think it's probably possible with the right tires and the right gearing and launch but I'm probably being optimistic. It would still be slower than the 340/S4 but at $42/46K it's got enough of a price advantage that I think it'd be OK (it would be faster than the IS350/ATS 3.6)...and it's kind of the best Acura can do right now with the Transverse FF plank.
There is also the Sport Hybrid...but I'm not sold on Acura making those cars the "top dog" performance variants and it wouldn't really have a comp, it would be a tweener AND a hybrid and it doesn't really do what Acura wants at 377 hp and a likely $45-50K price tag. The 400 hp Q50 red Sport starts at $49K for instance and that will blow the Sport Hybrid out of the water for the same price.
Long story short, Acura needs a new engine if they REALLY want to compete with the competition you mention (340/S4/C450). They probably also need a new plank for the TLX with better balance.
But that stuff probably won't happen until the FMC at the earliest. So they have to kind of do whatever they can do here. Again the 328i, C300, A4 2.0t are the best selling luxury sedans on the market. I think dropping a SHAWD 2.0T into the TLX lineup as a "replacement" for the FWD V6 ups their performance image and gives them a better weapon to compete against the those vehicles than the TLX V6 FWD does. And actually having a 310 hp J on top works OK IF they can somehow get the straight-line speed fast enough. It also sets them up for the next-gen...dropping the I4 and adding a 2WD 2.0T at $33/34K as the new "base" TLX, and putting some kind of turbo 5/6 on top which would probably only be rated at 310-320 hp anyways.
Plus the TLX can just get tightened up all around I think. Better tires and brakes along with dropping the 9AT for a more traditional slush box will help the base cars perform better.
I agree with your A-Spec/Type-S distinctions. A-spec should be suspension/appearance. Type-S adds power (and brakes).
I agree whatever powerful engine they are building, they will first use for RLX FMC and then TLX FMC alongwith proportions of precision prototype, not before that.
04-27-2016, 05:19 PM
#49
Banned
I think replacing the FWD V6 TLX with a SHAWD 2.0T TLX with around 265 hp and 260 lb-ft is the way to go here.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....37350&id=36950
Comparing the RWD IS200T and the Q50 2.0T with the TLX V6 AWD, the Acura fuel costs is within $50 of the weaker powerplants and is significantly faster. And it is ok to run it on regular (saving 13% here over premium). There is no point.
04-27-2016, 05:34 PM
#50
Team Owner
Listen to Saintor. He knows everything about turbo engines 
04-27-2016, 05:36 PM
#51
Team Owner
He also has no idea what a torque curve looks like and has no idea how quickly a turbo can deliver it's power, and thinks modern turbo engines still need to rev to 3500rpm before the turbo kicks in
04-27-2016, 05:38 PM
#52
Team Owner
And he also doesn't believe that a turbo engine can run on regular fuel also, while producing over 265hp from a 2.0T, because he knows everything.
04-27-2016, 05:41 PM
#53
Banned
Reality is that getting to speed from idle is much faster on V6 cars than 4-cyl.-turbo, not the contrary like your false pretenses.
5-60mph:
TLX 6.2s
IS200T 8.0S!!!
As for the Q50 2.0T... the claimed 0-60mph is 7.4s...
And he also doesn't believe that a turbo engine can run on regular fuel also, while producing over 265hp from a 2.0T, because he knows everything
Last edited by Saintor; 04-27-2016 at 05:44 PM.
04-27-2016, 06:03 PM
#54
Not saying this is not true, but why isn't this posted anywhere else on the interwebs?
04-27-2016, 06:03 PM
#55
Registered Abuser of VTEC
While Saintor is generally way off the mark, I would say that 2.0T would be a silly choice for a replacement of the V6 SH-AWD. Maybe replacing the base engine with a turbo 2.2L I4 is a good idea though. The upper engine, if they're going forced induction, should be a 3.0L V6 turbo.
04-27-2016, 06:08 PM
#56
Banned
While Saintor is generally way off the mark, I would say that 2.0T would be a silly choice for a replacement of the V6 SH-AWD. Maybe replacing the base engine with a turbo 2.2L I4 is a good idea though. The upper engine, if they're going forced induction, should be a 3.0L V6 turbo.
Going to 2.2 or 2.3T won't change much, as proven by Ford.
Come on! TLX 2.4L NA is quicker than both IS200T and Q50 2.0T.
A 3.0T is more interesting if you want 325HP+. It is not that I don't like turbo, they just need proper displacement.
04-27-2016, 08:31 PM
#57
While Saintor is generally way off the mark, I would say that 2.0T would be a silly choice for a replacement of the V6 SH-AWD. Maybe replacing the base engine with a turbo 2.2L I4 is a good idea though. The upper engine, if they're going forced induction, should be a 3.0L V6 turbo.
Acura needs performance around 350hp / torque to compete with s4/c450/340xi etc. I hope they develop a new engine instead of using sh sh awd.
Do they need 2.4L base engine (200hp) as well as 2 L turbo around 250 hp? That is a tricky question and it depends on what they plan for high end ILX.
04-27-2016, 10:27 PM
#58
04-27-2016, 11:09 PM
#59
Registered Abuser of VTEC
They're probably still stung by the NSX preview they released and then had to totally scrap the design. I'm sure they don't want to repeat that PR nightmare. The only thing worse in car marketing than starting a hype train too early is having that hype train derail. Acura had both happen with the NSX.
04-28-2016, 11:30 AM
#61
Considering all the Honda/Acura fanboys out there, it would be welcome news. This information from one source seems highly speculative.
04-29-2016, 07:29 AM
#62
While Saintor is generally way off the mark, I would say that 2.0T would be a silly choice for a replacement of the V6 SH-AWD. Maybe replacing the base engine with a turbo 2.2L I4 is a good idea though. The upper engine, if they're going forced induction, should be a 3.0L V6 turbo.
But the V6 FWD TLX is a bit of an albatross right now with both FWD and a 290 hp V6 starting in the mid 30s. Unless you compare it to the Lexus ES. And I don't think Acura wants that comparison! Look at the 328xi, A4 2.0T and C300 4 MATIC. All start in the mid/high 30s and all have turbo 2 liters with ~250-265 hp - also they sell rather a lot of them and I think Acura would rather be compared to those vehicles than the freaking ES.
Put it another way: the TLX V6 runs from $35-43K. At that price point Acura needs to be under 6 seconds to 60 and offer, at the very very least, an engaging drive. Someone I trust over at TOV says the 2.0T for the CTR is already the strongest engine Honda makes and they could make a ~265 hp version with a different turbo design that would have better torque delivery than the CTR engine which is designed to be pushed and kept over 3k rpm. Pairing it with SHAWD should deliver solid performance.
Either Acura is serious about performance and competing with the best or they aren't. They can't change the platform at the MMC but, to my eyes, shifting from a FWD V6 to a SHAWD 2.0T with an Aspec option would signal that they are as serious as they can be right now given their platform and technology portfolio. I know Acura isn't Audi or Merc, and I don't think they should just straight up copy what they do like Cadillac did, but they have to be aware of what the best are doing.
04-29-2016, 07:22 PM
#63
we discussed what the dealerships would like to have as new products. coupe, and convertible both came before Jon chimed in saying he thought that a smaller suv would be a better choice. i can see CDX eventually coming to the US
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Tony Pac (05-01-2016)
04-29-2016, 07:24 PM
#64
If these are impending changes, I would think they would want this information to be leaked to stir up excitement. Especially on a model that was supposed to change their brand image, but so far it's been a little lackluster.
Considering all the Honda/Acura fanboys out there, it would be welcome news. This information from one source seems highly speculative.
Considering all the Honda/Acura fanboys out there, it would be welcome news. This information from one source seems highly speculative.
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youngTL (04-30-2016)
04-29-2016, 07:29 PM
#65
^^ I have to give you credit and thank you for sharing what you know and keep us in the loop as best you can 
04-29-2016, 07:43 PM
#66
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My source that also attended the Acura COSE banquet in Las Vegas saw pics of the car and said it looked amazing and told me this:
The TLX MMC is coming in the Spring of 2017.
A-Spec.....with more horsepower?
Turbo V6....the Type-S?
Every new Acura will be available with A-Spec.
Nexx.....how does this compare to what you saw and heard?
The TLX MMC is coming in the Spring of 2017.
A-Spec.....with more horsepower?
Turbo V6....the Type-S?
Every new Acura will be available with A-Spec.
Nexx.....how does this compare to what you saw and heard?
Last edited by EE4Life; 04-29-2016 at 07:46 PM.
04-29-2016, 08:37 PM
#67
My source that also attended the Acura COSE banquet in Las Vegas saw pics of the car and said it looked amazing and told me this:
The TLX MMC is coming in the Spring of 2017.
A-Spec.....with more horsepower?
Turbo V6....the Type-S?
Every new Acura will be available with A-Spec.
Nexx.....how does this compare to what you saw and heard?
The TLX MMC is coming in the Spring of 2017.
A-Spec.....with more horsepower?
Turbo V6....the Type-S?
Every new Acura will be available with A-Spec.
Nexx.....how does this compare to what you saw and heard?
- they "debating" adding more power to the aspec
- not sure about every acura model having an a-spec.
04-29-2016, 09:24 PM
#68
-they didnt say specifically that v6 turbo was gonna be the choice for the type-s but that v6 turbo would be more likely vs the sport hybrid system due to cost. the main thing i remember is that Jon emphasized that the type-s would be a "significant" upgrade in power. they want to make sure that they do it right.
- they "debating" adding more power to the aspec
- not sure about every acura model having an a-spec.
- they "debating" adding more power to the aspec
- not sure about every acura model having an a-spec.
04-29-2016, 11:00 PM
#69
04-30-2016, 06:29 AM
#70
I must admit that I am getting really pumped at the idea of a TYPE-S.....I want to get back into an Acura badly so this would be a great way to come back....
05-01-2016, 08:30 AM
#72
^^ Rest assured, that is not my style at all! Money is the least my worries, I just want something fun, sexy and engaging while being problem free....if those conditions are met, please have my money! (gheez...re-reading that statement, it could apply to something else *LMAO*)
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quantum7 (05-01-2016)
05-01-2016, 11:24 AM
#74
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While Saintor is generally way off the mark, I would say that 2.0T would be a silly choice for a replacement of the V6 SH-AWD. Maybe replacing the base engine with a turbo 2.2L I4 is a good idea though. The upper engine, if they're going forced induction, should be a 3.0L V6 turbo.
Honda has pretty extensive turbo experience with its F1 engines so they can develop solid 2.0T/2.5T engines if they want to. Big If.
What makes current turbos killers on the street is most are at full torque under 2,000 RPM. Many as low as 1300/1400RPM. Torque is what get you going from a dead start & in low starting speed passing.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-01-2016 at 11:28 AM.
05-01-2016, 12:27 PM
#75
just specifically on the TLX in the near future. they did mention that they are open to type-s and aspec for all models though. it only makes sense because the dna for acura was about performance not luxury. they have swayed from that identity and Jon wants to get back to it.
05-01-2016, 02:53 PM
#76
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just specifically on the TLX in the near future. they did mention that they are open to type-s and aspec for all models though. it only makes sense because the dna for acura was about performance not luxury. they have swayed from that identity and Jon wants to get back to it.
05-01-2016, 03:54 PM
#78
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The market is very competitive now. Acura isn't stupid to just let it go. 30 years in the industry and sells about 175-200K cars a year. If Infiniti is surviving, I assure you that Acura will have no problem. Historically, Infiniti never surpassed Acura's sales in NA. I am very positive about the entire Acura lineup, new engines and style.
Acura needs a CDX size crossover, a coupe and different version of TLX.
Acura needs a CDX size crossover, a coupe and different version of TLX.
05-01-2016, 07:51 PM
#79
I saw that Acura has released the 2017 ILX. I hope the 2017 TLX is coming soon. If they put better tires/wheels on the TLX 4 cyl models, and improve the crash test ratings, I probably will buy one. I have been looking at the Accord and Subaru Legacy, but prefer the looks of the TLX. Both the Accord and the Legacy currently offer more safety features, which hopefully will no longer be the case for 2017.
I noticed inventory of the 4 cyl TLX Tech model is very low at local dealers. This could be a sign they are getting ready to change over to 2017 models.
I noticed inventory of the 4 cyl TLX Tech model is very low at local dealers. This could be a sign they are getting ready to change over to 2017 models.
05-01-2016, 10:57 PM
#80
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Its all about how its developed. The Porsche 4 cylinder 2.0T is 300HP & the 2.5T is 350HP. They are also rated at 21/28/23mpg & 20/26/22mpg.
Honda has pretty extensive turbo experience with its F1 engines so they can develop solid 2.0T/2.5T engines if they want to. Big If.
What makes current turbos killers on the street is most are at full torque under 2,000 RPM. Many as low as 1300/1400RPM. Torque is what get you going from a dead start & in low starting speed passing.
Honda has pretty extensive turbo experience with its F1 engines so they can develop solid 2.0T/2.5T engines if they want to. Big If.
What makes current turbos killers on the street is most are at full torque under 2,000 RPM. Many as low as 1300/1400RPM. Torque is what get you going from a dead start & in low starting speed passing.