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You may have something there, Bear. Let’s use my wife and me as examples; we’re both in our 70’s but still active. I’ve always loved cars and still do. However, my needs for a sport sedan and sport car are satisfied with our Cadillac ATS (primarily hers) and my Mazda Miata MX-5. Regarding other attributes for our other car:
Power and Handling: Must be adequate and for us the 2.4 TLX fits the bill.
Comfort: Paramount - must be comfortable and quiet.
Appearance: Must be attractive but things like exposed exhausts and fancy lighting mean nothing.
Driving Aids: We appreciate Blind Spot Monitoring, LKAS, and rear camera with Cross Traffic Alert. Other aids not important.
Other Tech: Not important. Haven’t even synched up our smart phones (and won’t).
Navigation: Only use it about 8 times a year and the TLX version is fine – gets us to where we’re going.
Sound System: ELS sounds fine to these old ears.
Maintenance: I hate getting a car serviced and at about 6500 mi/year the TLX only requires it about once a year. And the first one was free and only took about an hour. Costs are quite reasonable in general.
Gas Mileage: Not too important – not enough miles/year.
Reliability: Important and I think Honda products meet our needs.
Initial Cost: Not really that important; however, many older folks who are financially secure didn’t get that way by spending excessively. We were brought up to appreciate value and it’s difficult for us to splurge.
Depreciation: Not that important since we keep our cars quite a while and Honda products are pretty good in this area.
So there are some examples of how some generational factors may influence the cars we own and why the 2.4 Tech TLX is fine for us. I’m sure many would view us as old fuddy-duddies, but demographics do influence the decision on selecting a car. Also, every individual’s situation is of course different and that will have an impact also.
Sorry this is so long, but my golf course is closed today and I had some extra time.
Nice assessment. One thing I would encourage you to do is to sync your phones to the Bluetooth system of your car. That is a great feature and I think you will really appreciate it after one or two uses. It's very simple to connect and to use.
KeithL, I am really sorry you are so dissatsfied. I replaced my 3G TL Type S with one of the early SH-AWDs that qualified for the transmission replacement, and the only thing I don't love about it now is that it uses gasoline. ;-) I hope you are much happier with whatever car you get next.
The red NSXs at my dealership was in fact that very red, or a close reasonable fact simile. It looks fabulous, as did the grey -white colour of the other one. As for the TLX, i think it looks great in several colours, particularly the white. The Honda Accord, a similarly handsome auto also looks good in white, and it's no coincidence that most of the ones I see on the road are indeed white.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Seems like a common thread. The 4 cylinder guys are happy & the 6 cylinder not so much. Maybe its a combination of demographics, experiences & expectation. The 4 is a less expensive car that gets the job done as transportation & has not had major issues since introduced. The 6 cylinder costs more, may be aimed toward the more adventurous driver who is looking for more than basic transport, but has had repeated & continuing issues with the trans that can make spirited driving dangerous instead of fun.
....
I though the TLX was the car that would bring them back but maybe they just set the bar to low with what they delivered compared to the famous or maybe now infamous "Red Prototype"
Think about it, they did not even offer that killer paint color as an option on the production car. Even the red on my granddaughters CX-5 would make a statement on the TLX body shell.
I think the prototype could pull off that Red color because it had the bone structure to pull it off.... the body, the wheels, the stance. The production TLX can't pull off that Red any more than Rosie O'Donnell could pull off Blonde hair. It just wouldn't work and no one would buy it.
There are a few fundamental things I expect every car to do no matter what the segment or the cost... it needs to be able to go when you ask it, stop when you tell it, go left and right and be safe. The TLX let's me down on the 'go when I ask it.' Not every time, but enough times that I can't trust it for normal driving much less spirited driving. I have to always allow for the possibility that I hit the gas and it hesitates for 1-2 seconds. Let's face it, if the car failed to apply the brakes ONE time it would be one time too many. So every thing above those fundamental things are convenience or luxury items that are desirable or nice but icing on the cake. It is sort of like Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, but for a car. Gotta do the basics before you can do more, and for me this car doesn't do the basics.
I would have been fine with a 4-cyl Advance. I think a lot of people would. All the features of the V-6 Advance, just with the 4-cyl. But they would never make that car. I would have bought it if they did.
Nice assessment. One thing I would encourage you to do is to sync your phones to the Bluetooth system of your car. That is a great feature and I think you will really appreciate it after one or two uses. It's very simple to connect and to use.
Speaking about what old farts can do there must be something, maybe Moonshine, in the Carolina water. Joe Thomas Sr. Age 55 will start in his first college football game Saturday playing for NC State against UNC.
Maybe but. I hate to ignore one of my old rules from when I had a day job, "don't bit*h about problems if you can't offer a solution" but here is my take on your statement.
I agree 100% the race car adds & marketing plan were a very bad idea. They should have marketed it as a solid entry level premium car to the people who want to move upscale ithout spending an inordinate amount of money for a German or first line Japanese car. Comfortable, quiet, good fuel economy etc, but without the high price tag.
Would not have stressed its as step up from the Accord. Think the higher trim levels in the TLX are a step up from the lower trim levels in the Accord, but don't honestly see the lower TLX trim levels as being a step up ffrom the higher Accord trims. Think the would have been better served skipping that line altogether. Same with trying to sell it as an am alternative to the BMW 3'ers. BMW's are firmly entrenched in the publics perception as something special. Might not be fair or based in reality but its still a fact or a "what is" not what you want it to be.
I would have ripped of a page from the German marketing strategy & not run the car against any other car, just sold that car on its own merits. To me when Acura & Infiniti did all the "as compared to the BMW" commercials they jut put the 3 series up on a pedestal as the standard bearer. Not a very good plan to sell your car IMHO.
Good points. Attacking the competition works better when you're trying to sell cheaper Hyundais, for example. Then, Tucson's "roaring" through the desert and commercials mocking the Germans, Japanese, and American car companies can be very effective. Makes people feel like their Elantra or Sonata is a luxury brand.
Speaking about what old farts can do there must be something, maybe Moonshine, in the Carolina water. Joe Thomas Sr. Age 55 will start in his first college football game Saturday playing for NC State against UNC.
Way to go Joe.
Or 44 year old Jaromir Jagr still playing effectively with the Floria Panthers.....That's an NHL team for you southern folk
Lots of ways to dial out. However, the easiest, in my opinion, is the Speed Dial function. Once you have loaded your most commonly called numbers into the Speed Dial function, you can make a call without voice by pressing the phone button and using the left steering wheel flywheel to pick the number in the driver's dash display (Multi-Information Display). Although you can put up to twenty numbers there, having 6-8 very common ones keeps this way of calling out very simple and almost distraction free! Pretty simple to do (hopefully you have the manual). Who knows, you may find yourself texting by voice using Siri
I think the prototype could pull off that Red color because it had the bone structure to pull it off.... the body, the wheels, the stance. The production TLX can't pull off that Red any more than Rosie O'Donnell could pull off Blonde hair. It just wouldn't work and no one would buy it.
There are a few fundamental things I expect every car to do no matter what the segment or the cost... it needs to be able to go when you ask it, stop when you tell it, go left and right and be safe. The TLX let's me down on the 'go when I ask it.' Not every time, but enough times that I can't trust it for normal driving much less spirited driving. I have to always allow for the possibility that I hit the gas and it hesitates for 1-2 seconds. Let's face it, if the car failed to apply the brakes ONE time it would be one time too many. So every thing above those fundamental things are convenience or luxury items that are desirable or nice but icing on the cake. It is sort of like Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, but for a car. Gotta do the basics before you can do more, and for me this car doesn't do the basics.
I would have been fine with a 4-cyl Advance. I think a lot of people would. All the features of the V-6 Advance, just with the 4-cyl. But they would never make that car. I would have bought it if they did.
I'm curious if you have driven a 16 or 17 9 speed and if so, what you thought of it? I got out of my 15 SH-AWD because I preferred the 8 speed DCT. However, I drove a 16 3.5 SH-AWD and found it somewhat improved, in terms of the first two shifts and the downshifting delay.
Speaking of old farts (I'm not as old as some of you but I am working my way there) - last night I was heading to my appointment with the eye doctor and I mashed the pedal on the on-ramp. And while the 2.4 won't win any races with a 12,000 hp Mustang I was reminded that this car is actually faster than the corvette my dad drove while I was a kid!
Speaking of old farts (I'm not as old as some of you but I am working my way there) - last night I was heading to my appointment with the eye doctor and I mashed the pedal on the on-ramp. And while the 2.4 won't win any races with a 12,000 hp Mustang I was reminded that this car is actually faster than the corvette my dad drove while I was a kid!
Expect your dads Vette was made after 1971 & before 1990 during the engine killing smog years. My '67 StingRay was a sub 5 second car off the showroom floor.
Indeed it was Bear - it was a 1976. It rattled and squeaked and spent more time up on jack stands than the road but when it was running it was quite a lot of fun to ride around in.
I have owned my 2015 TLX SH-AWD exactly a year as well, with just 12,000 miles, so this thread resonates with me. I never owned another Acura, but I've (or my wife) owned many other vehicles, including a Lexus.
After a replaced transmission, and TSBs, replaced tires and parts for everything from vibration to rattles to electronics issues, I think everything is now where it should have been a year ago, and where I suspect new 2017 purchasers are from the get go.
I don't have the same negative comments about the interior or the infotainment or nav system that I know others have. While the quality of the interior doesn't compare to my Lexus, neither did the price I paid, and when you factor in a $6,500 settlement for my time and trouble with all the defects, my purchase price was right at $31K give or take, before taxes/fees not related to Acura.
I find it it hard to find too much negative to say about an AWD sedan, with a 290 hp V6, that gets 30 something mpg on the highway and low to mid 20s in city traffic. The tech isn't perfect, but there's a lot of it and it generally works fine for me. The interior could be a little more upscale, but for $31K, I can overlook minor shortcomings.
Had I paid what Infiniti wanted for a Q50 with same/similar features or what Lexus wanted for GS (or even ES), then I might be more upset.
KeithL and randomRon82 - great reviews! I had owned 2015 TLX SH-AWD Tech for a relatively short time too. (about 6 months or so). I made couple posts comparing it to my 3rd gen TL and 2ng gen TSX and quickly was attacked by many people who apparently know better and couldn't take on an objective and unbias comparison.
Like many, I could not stand an ancient and confusing infotainment. It is slow, laggy, with graphics that could only compete with 8-bit Atari games. Early versions of Android phones were more snappy. It is an embarrassment to put such a crap system in a luxury car where most mainstream cars offer more advanced and better systems.
The drivetrain on the paper looks great (that was the main attraction for me to the car). Who wouldn't want to have nice and smooth 3.5 V6 with almost 300 HPs and fairly advanced AWD system. However, Acura killed the drivetrain excitement when they put the damn 9 speed. A freaking Honda Odyssey with 6-speed tranny is more responsive, enjoyable and actually safer to drive than TLX with 9 speed.
Another big pet peve I got was the damn interior. $45k car should impress to some degree, but the doors (front and rear) are so cheap and cheaply made that I think a lot of mainstream brands would be ashamed to put such crappy interior on the doors into their mid size cars. Too much hard plastics including the C-pillar and rear shelf, no puddle light or bottle holder in the rear, cheapo speaker cover - just overall a bad design on many levels.
I said it before and I will repeat it again. I think the base TLX when had for under the invoice, is where the car shines. It is a decent upgrade from Civic or Corolla, for 27-28k, but at any other price point, it is just too cheaply made and with too many cut corners. I know many luxury brands are trying to do the same, but somehow in case of Acura it is the most apparent to the point that they are not worth the price compared to the equivalent Honda products. Lexus is much nicer and better put together than Toyota, same goes for Infiniti compared to Nissan, but somehow compare Acura to Honda and you would be scratching your head trying to figure out which brand is the luxury brand between the two.
The doors are essentially the same materials as the Audi 4 I just drove, as is the dash. Door top is similar material to the dash, middle is faux leather, bottom is a plastic material, like almost every other car under 60K and then some. They are solid and close nicely - what am I missing here? Perhaps people would take your review more seriously if you stayed away from hyperbole. I understand you didn't like the 2015 9 speed transmission and wanted a faster infotainment system. Frankly, the speed of everything I use is completely comparable to any other car I have driven. It takes a few seconds to load, and after that, I have not had any appreciable lag. I understand you found the infotainment system challenging.....I had no issues adapting to a two screen interface and find it easier to use than the mouse/knob controlled systems I have tried (but if i bought a car with one, I know I would adapt as I enjoy consulting manuals and a little trial and error). I also prefer it to the two screen system on the Infiniti. As for graphics, they are clear and provide the information they need to. The 3D map and navigation split screens may not be state of the art but they are clear and easy to read. Similarly the MID is clear and informative. The idea is not to be distracted - we are not watching movies here. Here's what I want in infotainment:
1. Excellent sound system - check
2. Excellent climate control - check
3. Clear maps and instructions for navigation - check (easy to use by voice for US owners in one easy step)
4. Voice texting - check
5. Easy calling out - by voice or Speed dial list
6. Multiple music sources - check
Is it the best interface out there? NO! However, i prefer function over form.
There are clear upgrades for Acura over Honda, but I would agree that the gap is smaller than the other brands you mentioned. However, so is the price. I would also argue that Honda has stepped up it's game and is superior in many respects to Nissan, and to a lesser extent, Toyota, which has perhaps further reduced the gap. IMHO, people buy Acura as an affordable luxury brand. A few of those folks want to pay less but have the same or more of other luxury brands. It's unrealistic and a bit of the grass is always greener.
I came from a TSX Tech and had also driven TLs as loaners. I was impressed with the car inside and out and therefore leased one. If you weren't impressed, why would you buy one?
The doors are essentially the same materials as the Audi 4 I just drove, as is the dash. Door top is similar material to the dash, middle is faux leather, bottom is a plastic material, like almost every other car under 60K and then some. They are solid and close nicely - what am I missing here?
The TLX door panels are nearly all plastic... even the door panels of Accords/Maximas etc. look more premium.
The Lexus is virtually the same, as is the TLX - a little more faux leather. The 2017 Audi 4 I drove Wednesday was virtually the same as the TLX. The Infiniti is the nicest of the pics - and all of those cars cost considerably more money. Your suggestion that mainstream brands would be ashamed to put the same quality in their mid size sedans is overstated and inaccurate.
And if this is really one of your most important decision criteria in selecting a car, then I guess you missed it when you bought the TLX. Too bad, that would have spared you some annoyance. BTW, the top panel is not plastic. I think I was clear in suggesting that you get what you pay for.....but that does not make what you pay for crap because another vehicle is nicer and a lot more money. Excuse me if I lose patience with this ever increasing need to polarize every event or thing into "Great" or "Crap". IMHO, this unfortunate trend is taking hold in in many areas of human endeavour......but I'll stop there. In closing, I thought it would be interesting to hear what a few major reviewers have said:
"The TLX cabin is similar in appearance to that of the larger flagship RLX sedan, featuring a sleek dashboard with swoopy lines that flow continuously into the door panels. The majority of materials are of good quality with the exception of a few trim pieces that aren't quite as substantial as what you'll find in an Audi A4 or Mercedes-Benz C-Class." -- Edmunds
"Historically, Acura interiors are precisely tailored, closely detailed and intuitively user-friendly, and the 2016 TLX maintains that appreciated tradition." -- Kelley Blue Book (2016)
"Interiors, too, manage to provide a premium feel. This is harder to do now than it used to be, as ‘regular’ cars have significantly raised the bar in recent years. Acura does it here with a stately yet modern design backed by wood and matte-silver trim accenting available two-toned interiors with numerous padded surfaces." -- Consumer Guide (2015)
The doors are essentially the same materials as the Audi 4 I just drove, as is the dash. Door top is similar material to the dash, middle is faux leather, bottom is a plastic material, like almost every other car under 60K and then some. They are solid and close nicely - what am I missing here? Perhaps people would take your review more seriously if you stayed away from hyperbole. I understand you didn't like the 2015 9 speed transmission and wanted a faster infotainment system. Frankly, the speed of everything I use is completely comparable to any other car I have driven. It takes a few seconds to load, and after that, I have not had any appreciable lag. I understand you found the infotainment system challenging.....I had no issues adapting to a two screen interface and find it easier to use than the mouse/knob controlled systems I have tried (but if i bought a car with one, I know I would adapt as I enjoy consulting manuals and a little trial and error). I also prefer it to the two screen system on the Infiniti. As for graphics, they are clear and provide the information they need to. The 3D map and navigation split screens may not be state of the art but they are clear and easy to read. Similarly the MID is clear and informative. The idea is not to be distracted - we are not watching movies here. Here's what I want in infotainment:
1. Excellent sound system - check
2. Excellent climate control - check
3. Clear maps and instructions for navigation - check (easy to use by voice for US owners in one easy step)
4. Voice texting - check
5. Easy calling out - by voice or Speed dial list
6. Multiple music sources - check
Is it the best interface out there? NO! However, i prefer function over form.
There are clear upgrades for Acura over Honda, but I would agree that the gap is smaller than the other brands you mentioned. However, so is the price. I would also argue that Honda has stepped up it's game and is superior in many respects to Nissan, and to a lesser extent, Toyota, which has perhaps further reduced the gap. IMHO, people buy Acura as an affordable luxury brand. A few of those folks want to pay less but have the same or more of other luxury brands. It's unrealistic and a bit of the grass is always greener.
I came from a TSX Tech and had also driven TLs as loaners. I was impressed with the car inside and out and therefore leased one. If you weren't impressed, why would you buy one?
I'm surprised you want the climate control integrated into the infotainment system. I had that on my '05 TSX w/ Navi and I HATED it.
Starting the car when it's -30 outside, to let it warm up a bit first and I had to sit there waiting for the silly Navi warning screen to show up and go away before I could adjust the temps... Simply annoying.
Personally, I like a nice mash up of some physical buttons and a infotainment screen. I just feel the dash looks so plain and empty if everything happens through the screen.
Just confirming, is this the interior of a 2005 TSX with navi?
I never owned one so I have no clue, but are you saying that even though there are physical buttons for the A/C, you will still need to wait for the Navi to load first, before those buttons would work?
I'm curious if you have driven a 16 or 17 9 speed and if so, what you thought of it? I got out of my 15 SH-AWD because I preferred the 8 speed DCT. However, I drove a 16 3.5 SH-AWD and found it somewhat improved, in terms of the first two shifts and the downshifting delay.
Unfortunately I've not had the chance to drive a '16 or '17. I have to take the car in soon, I'm also going to have them redo the software update. Maybe a salesman will let me test drive a 17.
Unfortunately I've not had the chance to drive a '16 or '17. I have to take the car in soon, I'm also going to have them redo the software update. Maybe a salesman will let me test drive a 17.
I drove a 2016 and while is a little bit better than 15 , there are still hesitations and some 2-3 "bumps" .
I didn't feel that the improvement was like Wow
I think by design the ZF9sp is flawed and without a hardware changes wouldn't perform like some of us would like.
My 2c
I'm surprised you want the climate control integrated into the infotainment system. I had that on my '05 TSX w/ Navi and I HATED it.
Starting the car when it's -30 outside, to let it warm up a bit first and I had to sit there waiting for the silly Navi warning screen to show up and go away before I could adjust the temps... Simply annoying.
Personally, I like a nice mash up of some physical buttons and a infotainment screen. I just feel the dash looks so plain and empty if everything happens through the screen.
There are toggle switches for both climate zones, outside of the touch screen. You can also use the touch screen to adjust, including maximum cool and heat. The defrost, rear, and front are also buttons below the touch screen.
Once you set a temperature, I hardly ever change it because the system works very well at maintaining a constant temperature.
Bear, I think you catch well the split between 2 groups of TLX customers. I may add one important factor that sets the expectations : from what car you're coming to TLX.
For some coming from mass mid side sedan or lower classes, yes the TLX is a very good car but for some that had 3/4 generations TL (always the higher trim like me ) I feel that TLX didn't deliver the expectations set by previous generations, especially by 4G. Adding the issues with ZF, for me TLX is a let down by Acura.
An important observation. Very satisfied with my TLX, and that's because I'm coming from a string of used cars from my parents, or didn't have a car because I lived in a major metropolitan city. We become anchored by the standards set in previous car ownership experiences. I'm pretty certain that my standards for what satisfies me in my next car will be substantially higher after having driven this TLX for many years... as I'm sure would be the same for someone who, say, drives a V6 and decides he/she could never revert back to an i4.
An important observation. Very satisfied with my TLX, and that's because I'm coming from a string of used cars from my parents, or didn't have a car because I lived in a major metropolitan city. We become anchored by the standards set in previous car ownership experiences. I'm pretty certain that my standards for what satisfies me in my next car will be substantially higher after having driven this TLX for many years... as I'm sure would be the same for someone who, say, drives a V6 and decides he/she could never revert back to an i4.
Very true. However, I would add that these days it seems to be more about how the engine is mated to the transmission. After driving 4 cylinder vehicles all my life, I drove a 2015 9 speed 3.5 SH-AWD for 16 months. I loved the engine, but didn't love (or hate) aspects of the 9 speed. I switched back to a 2.4 and prefer the engine/transmission pairing, not to mention the city fuel economy. I suppose if I had started with the better tuned 2016 or 2017 3.5, I likely would have stayed with the 6 cylinder.
Great points Keith. I agree with all of them. The three things that seriously annoy me the most: 1. The Hard Shifting 2.The delay of throttle response 3. The delay when switching from Reverse to Drive.
I was making a sharp left turn the other day to turn onto a side street when the car just lost power for 2 seconds, never lifted my foot off the gas at all. If I wouldn't incur such a big loss for trading it in, this car would have been traded in 8 months ago. Im happy I chose to lease. I don't think i'll see myself in another Acura for a while. Unless they drop this transmission, update the infotainment and bring a much needed type s with at least 350hp.
A slight annoyance is the huge roll that happens when you're parking your car. All my other cars never rolled as much. I have to leave myself extra room when parking near a light post or concrete block so my car won't roll into it.
Last edited by Illuminati; 11-26-2016 at 09:36 AM.
A slight annoyance is the huge roll that happens when you're parking your car. All my other cars never rolled as much. I have to leave myself extra room when parking near a light post or concrete block so my car won't roll into it.
The easy to use electronic parking break seems like a safer solution.
The easy to use electronic parking break seems like a safer solution.
True, however I never really used the parking brake in any of my cars. So out of habit I always forget. The only time I'll think to use it is when I'm parked on an incline. The problem with the TLX is even when I'm not parked on an incline, the car will still roll.
Include me in that happy group. It's a comfortable, quiet, economical, and attractive mid-size sedan with good ergonomics and visibility (not often mentioned). While it's not an aggressive sports sedan, they threw in a bit of sportiness just for kicks
11-22-2016, 06:25 PM
and I had some extra time.
I hate to ignore one of my old rules from when I had a day job, "don't bit*h about problems if you can't offer a solution" but here is my take on your statement.
