2012wagon

Agree 100%

2012wagon

Yup

I actually went and drove a SS sedan last summer when the manual came out
But I couldn't get over the interior and all that chrome
Then again am not a brand snob (not your typical demographic)

Booya4139

Its too bad because demographics are changing.... It used to be that cars like the Mustang and the Camaro were targeted to people like me. Guys in their 30's with a little money to spend on a toy. Problem is people are getting married and having kids later in life than they used to. I have a 2 year old and another on the way, so I'll be close to 40 before I can reasonably downsize to a coupe (as much as I'd love to). My option for a well powered NA engine, AWD, w 4 doors and a good MT are slim and none.

G37 and 4g TL were the end of a dying breed

2012wagon

^
Yup 2 boys under 5 here, I know the dilemma

RPhilMan1

Just accept turbos in your life already.

They really are fun.

1killercls

Yep...and with a tune and a couple of mods REALLY FUN!

Nexx

nothing against turbos but a big fkn v8 is helluva a lot fun too

Booya4139

I've come to that conclusion, maybe i'll start considering leasing and just get a 335 when the time comes

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

No AWD available, but get a CTS-V Wagon.

Fun and functionality. Plus, many folks daily it... even in snow country. Just need a set of winter wheels/tires...

wassystyle

I went from a TL Tech to a MDX Tech to a 328i sportline and now I am going back to TLX SH-AWD... To tell you the truth the I love my BMW I just hated the fact it was always in the dealership for something. Heck BMW paid my 1st three car payments because it was in the shop. I consider Acura a LUX brand but that's why I am getting another, with all the Acuras I've owned none of them have ever had anything crazy that kept them in shop.

Booya4139

I'd love one. Just bought my wife a new MDX advance that got built last week and is being delivered some time this week, got the new car itch stirring hard. But i just got a new 5AT through warranty in my TL during its last 1000 miles of drivetrain coverage, so I feel i owe it to stick with the car for another year or two since it is still immaculate, has its 100k service and there is functionally nothing wrong with it other than me wanting a 6MT with some power badly...

Figure it will give me some time to see all the new offerings like the Focus RS, Civic R, Golf R or just go with a 6MT 535i and get some snow tires for it.

oonowindoo

Unlike in the 90s, having leather, sunroof, 6 disc CD changer and HID do not get you the status of luxury brand anymore in 2016.

The new definition is status, more expensive, less reliable but more tech..the more the better = luxury brand. Basically offer what you want, not what you need.

That is why Acura is failing by continue to play the value card in the luxury market while Honda is successful in the "value" market.

NYTHAWK

LOL, I guess I'm one of the few. I started looking at the MDX and ended up walking into the Ford dealer and buying an Explorer Sport.

I have to say, for a 7 seater, awd suv, this thing is fun to drive with a tune on it.

I swapped out the Ecoboost badge for a proper one.

SamDoe1

Is this why BMW makes all those things optional on their luxury cars?

fsttyms1

Im headed to the dealer later this morning to test drive one and see what they will do for negotiations. Once i get it livernois will be contacted shortly afterwards.

HondaGuy347

Acura is failing because it used to be that buying an Acura was a smarter choice than buying a BMW (or similar), because BMWs were expensive, unreliable, and didn't come with a lot of the stuff people wanted standard.

That's all still true, except that now people don't BUY BMWs, they lease them. And even a BMW can make it through a 36k mile lease (mostly) reliably. And it is fairly cheap to lease a BMW versus most other cars, or versus buying most lesser cars. So if you can drive a BMW for $500/mo or buy an Acura for the same, most people will pick the BMW.

I'm anti leasing for myself (just doesn't work for us) so I continue to look for alternatives.

kurtatx

Agreed with all of this except that Lexus is the opposite of the bold.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yup. Many of the luxury makers do that. Gotta pay to play. It helps with the illusion of higher luxury.

I will say that I understand what he's getting at though. It's more than just the car... it's the experience... and going into an Acura dealer feels a lot like a Honda or Toyota dealer. Now we only have experience with Audi and MB, but completely different ballgame. Our MB dealer rivals a Ritz Carlton in appearance and atmosphere...

NYTHAWK

How did it go?

00TL-P3.2

Makes me wish we'd have searched more & gotten an EB Flex...

charliemike

AWD and 360hp yo ...

00TL-P3.2

Indeed, though on fordflex.net sounds like PTU failures are not uncommon.
We have no complaints on our N/A FWD Flex.

Thinking about convincing the wife to go with the H&R springs & remove the resonator in the exhaust. Showed her a video of a N/A Flex with the resonator removed & got a surprising "that sounds good" response

TacoBello

Make sure to slip a supercharger in there also, when's she's not looking

00TL-P3.2

Cost aside, she probably wouldn't mind the extra power.

charliemike

What's a PTU? Power Takeoff Unit?

SamDoe1

Yes. It's more efficient, lighter, and variable than a transfer case. A lot of crossovers use them now instead of a traditional TC.

youngTL

What's that supposed to mean? My partner is a Ford fanatic, and we did in fact cross shop those cars. He really wants a Mustang though. I went with the TLX because the Fusion was far short in the refinement and NVH categories, which are really important to us. In fact he presently has a 2010 Fusion, and while the 2016 is better, it's not good enough. I'd rather drive a Lexus ES350 than a Fusion, or a Hyundai Genesis sedan.

The IS350AWD was almost my pick over the TLX but there were a few things holding it back that were deal breakers for me.


I think Honda and Acura are aware they are on notice. This new Fusion is a new generation. I mean just look at the recent Civic and Accord, and how improved they are over past ones. We shall see what gets done on the Acura front. Bottom line is if they don't making anything I like, I won't buy from them.

NYTHAWK

The thing that's nice about the Explorer Sport is that it shares some common features that are used on the Police Interceptors such as a cooler for the PTU, larger brakes all around (14" I think), and lowered/ tuned sport suspension.

MTEAZY

What kind of AWD system does it have?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

It means exactly what it says. Go into the TLX section and read. Very few in there may have looked at the Fusion the way you did, which makes that a minority.

It's not a knock on Ford in anyway, it just kind of is what it is. Is it really news to people that most Acura buyers don't historically cross-shop the TLX and the Fusion and the ones that do would be an exception?

NYTHAWK

Front wheels first, then power shifts to the rear as needed. The harder you get on the throttle, the more the power shifts to the rear even if not slipping. Unless you place it into "Sand Mode", then I believe it's 50/50 front and rear.

RPhilMan1

MTEAZY

I never like those systems. They don't help much in cornering and just feel like FWD without torque steer. The default split in a Subaru or an Evo or most Audis feels better.

SamDoe1

It actually helps quite a lot. You can really feel it with the Jeep in the snow. As you turn, you feel it starting to understeer before the PTO kicks power to the rear to help manage the turn. This is what torque vectoring is...

The advantage of the PTO over a transfer case is that it can be engaged and disengaged variably at any time rather than a TC that's either off or on with nothing in between.

A 50/50 split is a default value but is often never the right value. My Jeep has an auto setting where it'll manage it for you and disengage the rear axle for better fuel economy and also has modes for snow (defaults to 60/40 F/R), mud/sand (50/50), sport (20/80), and rock (50/50 + low range). The alternate modes don't disengage the rear axle so it's always in 4WD. This helps when you want it to always be in 4WD and not only after slip is detected. The default splits are where it stays at even grip situations, it varies more based on wheel slip.

00TL-P3.2

Sport always, obviously, because

SamDoe1

It really makes a different, you can feel it immediately.

Unfortunately the gas mileage goes to sh1t when you switch to sport because it won't upshift past 5th or 6th gear and it holds every gear much longer before changing.

I leave mine in auto 95% of the time.

NYTHAWK

Off the line with the tune, all 4 wheels break loose a bit and I do get some torque steer, then fades as they grab. 0-60 is under 5 sec. Not bad for a 5,000 lb SUV that cost me about $45k loaded new.

00TL-P3.2

Our Flex does the same, won't shift into 6th in 'Sport'. Have to manually shift to 6, then you can't return to auto mode without returning to 'D' first.

fsttyms1

My wife happened. It was going Great until the wife came to look at it. She didnt like the Black/Brown leather interior, So now we are back to looking. Lots of red ones around here, but red is a no go for her.

They can make great power and impressive for heavy vehicles. My Buddy with his SHO would smoke all 4 of his 275s across the intersection with his Livernois tune, down pipes, exhaust.

oonowindoo

yup. Did i feel good about paying $1,900 for adaptive LED headlight? nope, i think it is ridiculously overpriced. But i did because i wanted it and glad that 80% of the other 4 series owners did not get it because of the price.
As bad as it may sound, free is cheap. If you want "exclusivity" (Meaning my car wont look like any other 30k 3/4 series) and in this case "luxury", then it should not be free.

You can't have it both ways, value =/= luxury premium brand. See Acura for example. While it may offer some good cars but it will never reach true premium brand status with its current strategy.

Many, myself included are always seeking the balance between status and value, that is why most of us do not drive KIA, even tho they are good cars and offer a lot of "bang for your buck".

That is the only reason Acura still exist today considering Honda products will offer More at similar price (V6 Accord Touring vs base TLX) or (loaded Maxima vs. Base Q50)