LiQiCE

Currently leasing a 2014 GS350 F-Sport AWD and my lease is up in October, so I am starting to test drive cars.

I want something different (I've always owned Japanese cars) - so I'm looking at German, AWD, sedan (have to fit at least 1 car seat in the back) and fun to drive - so been doing my research and found the C450 AMG. Reviews were pretty good - so I decided to test drive one.

The car sounded amazing, had (for me) tons of hp and torque - that was the best part. But the steering didn't feel good imho - even compared to the GS350 F-Sport which I was really surprised at. In Sport+ mode, the GS350 steering is more sensitive and heavier than in Normal mode. In Sport+ mode on the C450 AMG - the steering felt almost exactly the same to me as in Comfort mode - very little effort, although maybe more sensitive. It made the car feel very disconnected.

Just curious if anyone else had test driven one and had similar impressions - or maybe there was something wrong with the car I test drove? I was test driving it alone - so I didn't ask the dealer about it.

Going to test drive a BMW 435xi Gran Coupe and 340i today - not a huge fan of the boring interior though.

Might have to check out the Audi S4, but lease rates on Audi's are not usually very good from what I've seen.

Anything else I should try out?

1StGenCL

Buddy just got a Tesla 85D from his company and it is badass. I think the styling is getting a bit old but the car is quick! Not sure this fits your needs but if you're leasing, I'm guessing you don't drive ton but I could be wrong.

MaxMike93

I always figured that the Benz would be one of the best (never drove one, but reviews always seemed to rave about it the new C-Class). I know I'm going to sound biased, but did you consider a Q50 Red Sport AWD at all? People when I worked at a dealership used to tell me how much they liked their Infiniti over their Mercedes when I was showing them their cars, and short of going full AMG or M3 the Q50 has more power and technology when you option it right (Direct Adaptive Steering, Predictive FCW, Blind Spot Intervention, Backup Collision Intervention, etc.) The 2017 models should be out soon and there's going to be a new interior package with black headliner, quilted leather, "natural" (open pore?) wood trim if that matters since you don't like BMW interiors. Not sure how lease prices will be since the 2016 incentives just started to make things more competitive.

PortlandRL

+1 on the Model S. They just freshened up the front end and the interior and I think it was just what the car needed. The acceleration is utterly mind-blowing, even on models without Ludicrous or Insane mode.

LiQiCE

The Tesla 90D (85D is discontinued) would be awesome - but I think the monthly lease for it is over $1000 a month ($89,500 MRSP with no options) and Tesla does not negotiate on the price. That is way out of my price range. If I look at the lower end model - the 60D AWD - it is closer to my price range with a $742/month lease - but if I add any options I'd be closer to $800/month.

The C450 AMG is more in line with my price range, it has a starting MSRP of $50,800 which is negotiable. I think I can likely get a 36 month lease on a C450 AMG or C43 AMG for around ~$600/month with a bunch of options.

I have looked at the Infiniti Q50 Red Sport AWD - but a lot of reviews had placed it at the bottom of the pack when compared with other cars in its class - and it is a Japanese car, not that I have anything against Japanese cars - in fact I've only owned Japanese cars - and I wanted to try something different. Surprisingly though, for a lease - the Q50 Redline isn't that much cheaper than the C450 AMG.

I just ran a quick estimate using TrueCar's price for the C450 AMG and the Q50 Redline with options and for a 36 month lease with 10,000 miles (using edmunds.com forums for RV and MF) - the difference is about $30/month over 36 months or $1080 less over the life of the lease.

PortlandRL

Gonna go back to thumping my Hyundai bible here but what about a Genesis V8? The suspension on the new ones was refined and partially engineered by Lotus and though I haven't driven one yet, I hear from numerous sources that they handle amazingly well.

AZuser

TLX. It "practically matches C450 at 130mph. TLX only have 290bhp version of J35. MB can't match TLX fuel economic."

"Just look at noise level in C450AMG. it is unrefined junk compared to TLX. with piss poor fuel economy of 18mpg."

"superior aerodynamics should completely hushed noise level with superior fuel economy and superior performance with all season crappiest tires."

LiQiCE

I don't think the Genesis V8 is available with AWD in the USA? I test drove the Genesis V6 AWD when they first came out and I wasn't very impressed with the 'fun to drive' aspect - it was definitely nice, just all that weight makes it hard to toss around

LiQiCE

LOL - I test drove a few different TLX's before I leased the GS350 - not even on my list this time.

honda_nut

How about the new Jaguar XE? Reviews seem to be pretty positive so far and not everyone and their mother owns a Jag. Plus its a lease, so you don't really have to deal with long term reliability.

MTEAZY

CTS V sport

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Maybe try a real AMG

But yeah, any non-AMG (even those with AMG options) will feel a bit floaty. It's a Mercedes. While they handle pretty well stock, they're built for cruising. We have an E350 with the sport package and while it handles well, it's not even close to what the A6 was.

00TL-P3.2

Maybe, but the C450 is actually branded as: 'C450 AMG'
Granted, that may be 'AMG-lite' but I would expect a bit more than an 'AMG Sport Package' C300

Saintor

Too early for the new 5er.

If you are looking for Euro cachet, why not have a look to the Jaguar XF and the Volvo S90? I have no idea how they lease. I want to include the CTS-V but its geriatric styling turns me off...

TacoBello

CTS-V has geriatric styling? Then what do you call the TLX?

Keep your price point in check. CTS-V is balls expensive.

Saintor

Keep eating tacos, despite what it did to your brain.

TacoBello

Excellent argument to dispell the truths I wrote

Are you also insinuating that latino people are all brain dead because they eat tacos? Fucking racist.

Tacobello 1 Saintor 0

Saintor

Well tacodummy, I never mentioned my car and this will be my last reply to your trolling attempt to derail this thread, uncalled for by the OP. If you don't think that most people actually find the TLX styling attractive, you are a fool. The OP is looking for a more upscale car.

TacoBello

So cadillac it is! Thanks!

TacoBello

So cadillac it is! Thanks!

Tacobello 2 Saintor 0

CCColtsicehockey

I would say try an S3 and an S4 out. The drive of both is supposed to be great from what I have read.

Yumcha

What about an RLX with upgraded tires?

CCColtsicehockey

It doesn't have power fold mirrors or does it?

TacoBello

It does have superior fuel economic though.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

but guise, DID it have ESP!?

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

S4!! But I'm a little bias...

AZuser

Most? You have data to back this up, or is this just your opinion?

What do you think, SSFTSX?

Thanks.

AZuser

S4 or S5, unless OP needs 4 doors.

Too bad Audi won't give us the RS3 or RS4 Avant

oonowindoo

Q50 Red is a bargain in performance but because it is too new, you are not going to have any discount and the current program is really bad = high payment that is not proportionate with the car price.
Also have you already received quotes for the C450/C43? i would be very surprised if that is the monthly payment unless you put a big down payment, which is not a good thing to do on a lease.

As far as steering, BMW in sport+ does give you heavy steering feel vs comfort. Sometimes i think it is too artificially heavy. Since most of the newer cars comes with E- steering, you are not going to have the same feedback as the older BMWs, so set your expectation low.
X drive 3/4 series drive very differently than RWD 3/4 series even when both are equipped with the sport package. X drive does not give you sport suspension/staggered wheels/tires among other performance related items even when you pay for the M Sport. So really M sport in X drive cars are purely cosmetic.

Audi.. well you are not going to get anywhere close to S4 with 600 a month.... last time i heard the A4 with options are leasing out around $600/month.

LiQiCE

LOL you guys are awesome - this is why I asked on this forum I need 4 doors, so it'd be an S4 if I got one ... I do like the new A4's, I think last time I checked - lease rates were awful on the S4 though. I'll have to look at the Jaguar and maybe the CTS V-Sport since the CTS-V is too expensive for me

So I test drove a 340xi and a 435xi Gran Coupe - I really liked the 340xi minus the bland interior. The 435xi Gran Coupe looks better on the outside but it didn't drive as nicely - nor was the engine as responsive. Maybe will wait to test drive a 2017 440xi Gran Coupe ... maybe there was something wrong with the MB C450 AMG I test drove - but the 340xi handled beautifully, steering felt great - it felt really fun to drive where as the C450 AMG felt fast - but not really fun to drive

The C450 AMG is definitely not a "real" AMG, even though the MY2017 model will be labeled the C43 AMG - making it appear to be a baby C63 AMG, it still doesn't have a hand built engine like a true AMG - but I would have expected it to drive a little better. The steering honestly felt like I was driving my old ES350. It was really that numb and disconnected.

CCColtsicehockey

Don't even get me started on how much I hate that they won't give us those. Heck we can't even get an S4 avant anymore. I would be happy for us to have that option again.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

As long as it has fog lights.

00TL-P3.2

Didn't realize they were replacing the C450 with the C43. Is it truly not going to be a 'real' AMG?
That was going to be my next suggestion, to wait for the C43 & see if it's an improvement over the C450.

Guess it all partially depends on your timetables.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

E43 amg

LiQiCE

I used the pricing from TrueCar.com for the C450 AMG - which may not be accurate for a C43 - but when I run those numbers along with the national Residual and MF for the C450 AMG on a 36mo/10k lease, the price works out to $605 before taxes - after taxes for Virginia which taxes you on the price of the entire car, the monthly payment is closer to $665/month. I also assumed 10 multiple security deposits to bring the MF down - again this might be a bad assumption, but plenty of people have said this is doable. The MSD is better than putting down a large down payment since I'd get it all back when I turn in the car (assuming no excess wear and tear).

I did test drive the 340xi today and really liked it. Steering was just fine and about what I'd expect from a somewhat sporty car. I've driven primarily electronic steering cars - the GS350 F-Sport is e-steer and my S2000 is e-steer - last car I drove that was hydraulic power steering was my 2003 TL-S? Actually, the S2000 is one of the best cars imho with regard to steering weight, which was primarily my issue with the C450 AMG.

LiQiCE

So the C450 AMG (AMG-Sport) and C43 AMG will be mostly identical - MB is just calling the same car the C43 AMG for 2017 -- a 'true" AMG car, even though it does not have a hand-built AMG engine like most other AMG vehicles. The engine has been tuned by AMG though. The only difference between the C450 and C43 from what I've read is that the C43 will get a 9G-Tronic transmission versus a 7G-Tronic transmission. The 9-speed from MB apparently is made in house, and is not related to the infamous ZF 9AT in the TLX V6 and other cars.

The C450 and C43 do have a true AMG suspension from what I've read - it is a completely different suspension from the C300 - and the dampers are from the C63 AMG. The steering wheel is an AMG wheel - but perhaps the electronic steering rack is not from the C63?

Funny enough, I posted this on MBWorld and a C63 owner also said the steering sucks on the C63 -- and they said Honda has the upper hand on electronic steering since they pioneered it in the NSX 25 years ago Maybe SSFTSX should add that to his repertoire

LiQiCE

Yeah 1 year to early for the new 5-series and I don't really want to buy the current 5-series, especially since the reviews on it have not been all that great from a fun to drive perspective. I could get a pretty nice deal on the 5-series right now though.

I am going to have to take a closer look at Jaguar in general - the Volvo S90 was on my list, but early reviews say that it is a great luxury car, but not necessarily a "fun to drive" kind of car. Probably the Polestar version, rumored to have 600hp will be the one to get - but that is likely a year away.
​
I don't think the E43 AMG is out yet? And even if it was - I'm guessing the car will probably not be as nimble as the C43 ... plus it is probably out of my price range since the E300 is just barely (no options) in my range.

oonowindoo

MB allows 10 MSDs? wow...

MSD is the way to go to lower the money factors if you have the extra cash laying around. But i would assume you are still required to put at least 3k as driveoff in addition to the 10 MSDs correct? That is a lot of $$ up front for a $60k car.
Just to give you BMW's leasing program as reference. you can realistically get a 435 GC with MSRP 60k for $610 with tax included and $2000 drive off in total without MSD. with Max MSD i believe is 7 for BMW, your monthly payment will be under $600. Just make sure to go "test drive" during the BMW driving event that will give you an additional $1000 voucher.

I guess check what others are paying for their lease on the forum (not true car) so you will have real expectations. Just keep in mind that you can get a M3/M4 for about 800 a month WITHOUT MSD now

PortlandRL

Yeah unfortunately the AWD is a V6-only option except in Canada...last I heard. They can get the V8 with AWD.

oonowindoo

BMW is literally throwing away 5 series now. Have you checked its Residual value? i think it is like 67% for 3 years or something like that.

But if you hated the steering on the C450... 5 series is even less fun to drive unless it is an M5 of course.