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Exactly what Sarlacc said. IME the 5 speed is extremely sluggish with a reluctance to shift and with gears spaced so far apart it robbed performance. Furthermore the shifts are not as smooth as I would like them to be. I can't seem to find the article, but one of the major car publications (I think car and driver, I'll search after and post if I can find it) reviewed the 2014 GC V6 with the new 8 speed and stated that it was faster to 60 than the 2011-2013 model with the Hemi V8. Those are tangible differences to me.
This exactly 1000%, thank you for posting this. I admit to not having any experience with the sport model 5 speed transmissions, so that may be a different animal.
Exactly my point. It's the programming, not the transmission. Big difference. If you haven't driven the NAG1 in a performance application then you're making a very general assumption about the transmission itself.
Exactly my point. It's the programming, not the transmission. Big difference. If you haven't driven the NAG1 in a performance application then you're making a very general assumption about the transmission itself.
Yes but thats not what people think about when they drive the car. They think..man this transmission feels like shit.
In other words, I don't think either of you is wrong.
so is that right that the durango V6 and the V8 model have a different transmission?
The V8 and diesel Chrysler products use the real deal ZF8 gearbox from Germany. The V6 uses a ZF8 box built in the US. The transmission code for the V6 models is 845RE while the V8 models have 8HP70. Obviously the V8 box is designed to handle WAY more power. Something I found arprising is the V6 box has a max torqe setting of 300 lb/ft and was fitted in the E70 (2007-2013 Gen X5) that has the 300 lb/ft turbo 3.0. Expect to see MANY failures coming up.
As much as I wanted to like the Durango I don't think I will buy one because I don't want a HEMI and the V6 models have serious engine issues:
The Pentastar 3.6L engine in Dodge vehicles has had two common faults since its introduction in 2011, the first being that advanced exhaust cam phasing can trigger an engine warning light; this has no negative performance effects. The second, more serious, issue is overheating and failure of engine heads.The cylinder head problem in the Chrysler Pentastar 3.6L engine affects the left bank containing cylinder number two. Symptoms first appear as a ticking sound coming from that cylinder, followed by misfire conditions, loss of power and possible stalling. The design flaw is reportedly fixed in models manufactured from 2012.
From the research that I did supposedly Chrysler fixed this problem by 2014 but there are still a lot of people with this issue with models 2014+. Such a bummer because the Durango is a perfect sized SUV and the V6 puts out plenty of power for our needs and decent gas mileage.
By sloppy I meant sluggish, not weak. I got that impression from a 2011 and 2013 ford explorer with the 2.0t and one with the 3.5l V6 that we rented for a few weeks each. Never with the ecoboost 6 so that may change my impressions. I agree on styling, I think from some angles it is attractive, but others need work. The AWD system is adequate, agreed, just that I am an AWD junkie and I am a strong supporter of full time systems. Not that the part time systems are not good enough. I just will give preference to full time systems is what I am trying to say.
I agree with you though, neither is a horrible choice.
I dunno man, my Jeep doesn't have a full time AWD and it's taken me to some incredible places...
Anyway, I agree with everthing you're saying. If you're evaluating the feel of a car off of a rental then...I'm not sure what to say. Those cars are beat to hell and back with only basic maintenance.
Originally Posted by SuperTrooper169
He also called the 5spd in the Durago R/T crappy. Not sure how a stout, reliable automatic that can handle 580 ft lbs of torque is crappy but what do I know. Oh wait, my Charger has the 5spd. Well I guess I do know. You can't.
Compared to the ZF8, it is crappy. It's not nearly as refined, efficient, or quick shifting as the new box. This is entirely expected. Please note that I didn't say it wasn't stout.
Originally Posted by Jakes_tl
so is that right that the durango V6 and the V8 model have a different transmission?
Same, no but similar. They are based on the same architecture and have the same number of gears. The V8 one is more beefed up than the one for the V6. Likely for cost/weight savings.
Originally Posted by RDX10
The V8 and diesel Chrysler products use the real deal ZF8 gearbox from Germany. The V6 uses a ZF8 box built in the US. The transmission code for the V6 models is 845RE while the V8 models have 8HP70. Obviously the V8 box is designed to handle WAY more power. Something I found arprising is the V6 box has a max torqe setting of 300 lb/ft and was fitted in the E70 (2007-2013 Gen X5) that has the 300 lb/ft turbo 3.0. Expect to see MANY failures coming up.
Where did you find that info? I'm pretty sure that the lower spec ZF8 can handle a lot more than 300ft/lb. That would be very irresponsible from an engineering standpoint to spec a component at its very limit.
Also, FCA has agreements with ZF to manufacture their products. I don't think one or the other only comes from a specific plant, it's a crap shoot mostly to deal with supply issues. With how many companies are using the ZF8, there's no way they'd be able to keep up so FCA decided to just license and build their own.
I dunno man, my Jeep doesn't have a full time AWD and it's taken me to some incredible places...
Anyway, I agree with everthing you're saying. If you're evaluating the feel of a car off of a rental then...I'm not sure what to say. Those cars are beat to hell and back with only basic maintenance.
But your jeep has a true low range and a locking rear differential doesn't it? That is of course nowhere near as good as a true full time 4X4 system like the wrangler or the quadra trac systems in the grand cherokee, but is still WAY better than a standard slip and grip system. I did quite a bit of reading on the AWD system in the Cherokee trail hawk and was very impressed with some features. I think we're overall on the same page man, I need to test newer models that are NOT rentals obviously, but I really want to test drive the 3.5 ecoboost model!
Compared to the ZF8, it is crappy. It's not nearly as refined, efficient, or quick shifting as the new box. This is entirely expected. Please note that I didn't say it wasn't stout.
Exactly.
Same, no but similar. They are based on the same architecture and have the same number of gears. The V8 one is more beefed up than the one for the V6. Likely for cost/weight savings.
Where did you find that info? I'm pretty sure that the lower spec ZF8 can handle a lot more than 300ft/lb. That would be very irresponsible from an engineering standpoint to spec a component at its very limit.
Also, FCA has agreements with ZF to manufacture their products. I don't think one or the other only comes from a specific plant, it's a crap shoot mostly to deal with supply issues. With how many companies are using the ZF8, there's no way they'd be able to keep up so FCA decided to just license and build their own.
The info was found on Wiki, here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission I just realized I read it wrong, or at least on my phone it shows up differently than the website does because I swear on my phone this morning showed it at 300 lb/ft max. Just checked my phone.... there is a line between the numbers that shows up weird and I read past it. Sorry for that guys. What I do know for sure though is that the 2007 Volvo xc90 with the V8 model makes 326 lb/ft of torque and the aisin 6 speed auto it comes with is only rated to 324.5 lb/ft which is why they have VERY common transmission issues. Figured this was the same case when I read it this morning about speccing a vehicle with X lb/ft with a transmission only capable of holding down X lb/ft. You are correct about FCA possibly making both, my information source is ages old (read this a few years ago) so might have even changed.
On the plus side, the ZF 8 in the Durango V8 can handle a whopping 700 lb/ft!!!! damn! The 9 speed used in Acuras can handle up to 480 lb/ft....sorry guys I just find this stuff very impressive!
I did my comments in bold because I replied within the quote. Thanks for the good conversation.
^ Yep. Actually the system in the GC is very similar. The biggest difference being that the Cherokee is FWD based and the GC is RWD based. The Wrangler plays on a whole different level than either the Cherokee or the GC.
If that Volvo trans really is rated like that the entire transmission design team and leadership should have been fired. That's an engineer 1 rookie level mistake. I'm sure it's not actually true about the rated torque but some small component that fails over time as is the case with the ZF9 in all of the models that run it. Transmissions are actually quite strong for what they are. I'd be more concerned with differentials than transmissions to be honest.
I have yet to drive or be in a vehicle with the ZF9, but I loved the ZF8. Very smooth. In the various applications I've driven and ridden in, from a 4-cyl 5-series to a 5.7 L RAM 1500, I can say it's one of the best pure automatic transmissions I've experienced. The 8AT in the IS-F is another gem, if you want something more performance-oriented.
As a manual transmission purist, I wouldn't mind those in automatic, though maybe that is more indicative of the cars themselves than anything else.
I have yet to drive or be in a vehicle with the ZF9, but I loved the ZF8. Very smooth. In the various applications I've driven and ridden in, from a 4-cyl 5-series to a 5.7 L RAM 1500, I can say it's one of the best pure automatic transmissions I've experienced. The 8AT in the IS-F is another gem, if you want something more performance-oriented.
As a manual transmission purist, I wouldn't mind those in automatic, though maybe that is more indicative of the cars themselves than anything else.
I have both. The ZF8 is phenomenal. The ZF9 sucks. Now, I have a 1st gen ZF9, and they've supposedly gotten better.
^ Yep. Actually the system in the GC is very similar. The biggest difference being that the Cherokee is FWD based and the GC is RWD based. The Wrangler plays on a whole different level than either the Cherokee or the GC.
If that Volvo trans really is rated like that the entire transmission design team and leadership should have been fired. That's an engineer 1 rookie level mistake. I'm sure it's not actually true about the rated torque but some small component that fails over time as is the case with the ZF9 in all of the models that run it. Transmissions are actually quite strong for what they are. I'd be more concerned with differentials than transmissions to be honest.
I was very close to buying a V8 XC90 before buying the MDX but when I read about the discrepancy between the V8 and the transmission it permanently took it off my list. I do completely agree with you that it can probably handle more but is being held back by a component...I am personally amazed at how much transmissions can handle and how they swap gears hundreds of times a day without fail. The other thing that impresses the hell out of me is how SH-AWD can transfer a sudden 70% to the rear and then 100% of that power to one wheel on a curve without vibration or issue. Like how it goes from spinning normally to suddenly being overdriven so smoothly really is a feat of engineering when you think about it.
The ZF8 was, as I said above, very smooth on my test drive. At least on my 15 mile test drive in varying conditions marching my daily drive, it did well.
Nothing special to this story. It was time to say good-bye for many reasons. 2 big ones being that I had a good amount of equity in it, and getting 11mpg shuttling kids around sucks especially with current gas prices. So, Carvana actually offered a pretty great price, and they picked it up yesterday and handed me the check.
As much I would jump into a Guilia in a heartbeat my parents said they dont really need 2 cars anymore. My mother just got a new Subie Ascent, and my dad has a golf cart. So, I'm going to take his '07 IS250 AWD in the interim to have one less payment, and take time to figure out what I want to do and when.
Wise move, sir. Look forward to finding out whatever you decide to do.
Thanks and yeah who knows. I LOVE my wife's Stelvio...I will always say probably the most driver centric car I've had. Just turning in that thing makes me smile. The IS is no slouch either and the suspension on it pretty stiff. Even though its 13 years old it has pretty much every modern feature on it expect for back up camera/sensor and BT.
Oh shizz..
Does it have to be registered to a vehicle or you forfeit it.
Or just don't want to pay for it anymore?
I'd slap that sucker on the IS
I'm not sure, but Im not worried about it. Somehow I doubt SARLACC is high on anyones list....and I'll admit I drive agressively enough (especially towards morons) that sometimes Ive wondered if my car would get keyed one day if someone recognized my plates.
My dad doesnt want to deal with registration so we're keeping under his name, I'll just insure it. He also doesnt want to drop his custom plates
making moves that are best for the family is grown folk shit.
good for you, David.
and that's the same reasoning I ditched the Caddy...all the bro hi fives are cool and I "could" afford
the gas but a part of me was just no okay getting 12 mpg
Nothing special to this story. It was time to say good-bye for many reasons. 2 big ones being that I had a good amount of equity in it, and getting 11mpg shuttling kids around sucks especially with current gas prices. So, Carvana actually offered a pretty great price, and they picked it up yesterday and handed me the check.
As much I would jump into a Guilia in a heartbeat my parents said they dont really need 2 cars anymore. My mother just got a new Subie Ascent, and my dad has a golf cart. So, I'm going to take his '07 IS250 AWD in the interim to have one less payment, and take time to figure out what I want to do and when.
Did you say you're dad drives a golf cart?
What the heck! The IS250 AWD is a slow-ish car, but it kicks ass!
remember he has a turbah rdx that his mom doesn't let him drive and daily nocturnal emissions over 5th gen accords so he knows what fast is.
know your place, david.
I remember a buddy of mine had an IS with cooling seats...I remember thinking why the fuck is this thing about as fast as my TL
....and I'll admit I drive agressively enough (especially towards morons) that sometimes Ive wondered if my car would get keyed one day if someone recognized my plates.
This is so me
Someone I know recognized my ride last week
They were like, you passed me up north
All I could think was.. did I go over 120 there
Nah.. then he couldn't have read the plate
This is so me
Someone I know recognized my ride last week
They were like, you passed me up north
All I could think was.. did I go over 120 there
Nah.. then he couldn't have read the plate
i used to be big on vanity plates too... but then i also grew up and realized this as well... i try not to be a d!ck on the road, but i ain't no saint either... i'm bound to piss off someone and i don't want them taking it out on my car...
I haven't grown up.
I pay the extra few bucks on all my cars to get specialty plates, just not vanity plates but mainly so they match the vehicle or look cool.
This is so me
Someone I know recognized my ride last week
They were like, you passed me up north
All I could think was.. did I go over 120 there
Nah.. then he couldn't have read the plate
One example:
I stopped doing this...but I'm the guy who is sick to shit of the entitled assholes in my neighborhood constantly running stop signs and pulling out in front of right of way cars that a few times that I jumped ahead of them slammed my brakes and jumped out of the car to yell at them. There are tons of pedestrians, kids, and pets in this place. People have been hit before. I can't even trust my kids to go out by themselves and cross streets its so bad.
Trust me I know the feel...
I had one where the person blatantly littered a full happy meal on the street.
Went and knocked on the window and didn't like how not receptive they were to my
saying "I think you dropped something". After I threw it in their face they said they
were gonna pull a gun. I realized I was gonna get killed trying to teach people manners.
02-09-2017, 06:52 AM
