1killercls

Audi is changing its name to Porcauwagon.

kurtatx

I would make Acura an SUV company and occasionally introduce higher end limited edition sports cars (NSX, baby NSX) and stop pretending that Sedans are meaningful.
The two large Honda dealerships in my part of Austin are far superior to the Acura dealership in the same region. Better amenities, a barista, better service.

TacoBello

I don't dispute that, but if Acura isn't selling enough to stay viable, it doesn't matter what kind of customer service happens at the dealership level. It is unfortunate for those who have purchased newer Acura models as of late, but otherwise, if Acura didn't exist, those same people likely would've gone elsewhere. Some would move down to Honda. Many would likely look at Lexus at least as a starting point, and continue to Cadillac, Lincoln, BMW, Audi, MB, etc.

Also, Acura is touted as being budget smart luxury. I have a hard time believing many would start jumping to higher brands and higher price points. I could very well be wrong- I'm sure at least if the RLX didn't exist, most (but not all) would look higher up the market, for things such as better customer service, etc.

TacoBello

in my experience, at least here in the city, I personally have not noticed much difference between Acura service and Honda service. At least here, they seem to be more or less equal. It also depends who owns these dealerships- they ultimately dictate what kind of service happens.

Here, it's Lexus that is the cats meow when it comes to service (I can't comment on the Germans). Lexus has golf simulators to use while you wait, a spa, a barista, concierge service, you name it. But all of that is included in the price you pay for servicing your vehicle there.

RDX10

I don't mean this in a rude way, but all 50 of you who bought the RLX don't matter from an economic point of view. You are like a drop of water in a lake compared the rest of the economics of the brand (if that makes sense). Also the RLX is 70k in Canada and judging by the fact I have only EVER seen 2 RLX's ever on the road. I don't think my estimation of the cost issue is irrelevant here.

This isn't to discredit the RLX or to insult RLX buyers, I am talking STRICTLY from a sales and financial point of view.

RDX10

The lexus dealers here in town are BY FAR the nicest and most luxurious places to be. Jaguar and land rover/porsche have NOTHING on the local lexus dealer (south point, not west side). Acura on the other hand feels the same as when I go to hyundai for servicing. Nothing fancy WHATSOEVER.

TacoBello

Yup, agreed. Maybe they'd sell more Acuras if you could also get your nails painted while waiting to have your oil changed

But really, it's kind of silly. You just pay more for service to get these amenities which at least I don't need. I get coffee from where I like to get my coffee. I don't go to spas except for massages and I'm not sure I want that at a dealership. I don't need to play a gold simulator- I rather go to the golf course, etc. West side Acura is pretty much brand new, and there's nothing special about it. In dealing with the service staff at south view Acura, it was nothing different than Honda. So on, and so forth.

I know people who do love the Lexus service... I've yet to meet anyone who says the same about buying an Acura because of the service. At least here, that is. I've seen more RLXs, but to date, only one SH, and maybe 8-10 PAW-S, over the last 3 years. Not sure if any of those were the same car I saw twice.

moose66

Wow! Maybe I should just stick to reading these posts! Back into my hole I go, with my overpriced, over-hyped Honda.

TacoBello

Why are you getting upset? No one is criticizing your car, but rather the company. And not even Acura for being Acura, but for Honda strangling Acura. Some people...

AZuser

^ This.

Acura products are just too similar to Honda products. For the most part, Lexus' are much nicer than Toyota's.... nicer looking interiors, nicer materials, higher quality paint,... etc. The difference in feeling between just sitting in a Toyota and Lexus is much greater than that between a Honda and Acura.

Plus, Toyota/Lexus actually spends money to advertise and promote their cars and the brand. I see way more Lexus ads/commercials than Acura ones. You cannot sell anything if people don't know you exist or what you have to offer.

Also, since the very beginning, Lexus has been consistent in their message ("The Pursuit of Perfection") and they've been able to back it up with their products.

Meanwhile, Acura's been all over the place:

"The True Definition of Luxury. Yours."
"Precision Crafted Automobiles"
"The road will never be the same."
"Made for Mankind"
"Advance"
"Red Carpet Athlete"
"Let the Race Begin"
"Precision Crafted Performance"

None of their products, save for maybe the NSX, really lived/lives up to all those taglines.

Acura needs to pick one single meaningful message and stick to it. All the different messages just confuses people about who you are/what you're about.

George Knighton

The numbers aren't there but there's something that made them fly people out to interview people in their own homes.

Maybe it's not about the cars that exist, but the cars of the future.

Just a guess.

George Knighton

A car that stood out to me for its time was the 4G TL that was introduced in 2009.

An American car, designed by Americans for Americans.

Very high quality car, decent amount of technology, wonderful interior....

I don't know why that car didn't catch on. But as the owner of a 2010 SH-AWD 6-6, they were awesome. Even now I think about it sometimes.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

cause it was heavy and fat looking with that god awful grill...

kurtatx

Yeah, the design was so unattractive. The lines and grille were like taking a heavy set person and making them wear horizontal stripes.

SamDoe1

Because it looked like it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. The reviews from both journalists and forum owners on the beak are and always have been brutal yet they kept it from 2009 until literally this year.

RDX10

Honestly I could not care less about having virtual golf or a spa or any of that bullshit at my dealership. What I do care about is fast service, preferably give me a loaner and let me do my thing. I like to be in and out asap. I never wait at the dealers, so give me a loaner and have it ready when I come in and I'm happy. I can not EVER see myself literally going to a fricken dealer to service my car and sitting there playing virtual golf or hitting the spa or some shit like that (mostly because I don't actually like that stuff, and partially because I am too busy during the day to spend time at the dealers).

So while I don't really care for "gold star" servicing, I am sure people with 6 plus figure paychecks kinda expect that stuff. So while I will never use those services, if I was buying a car from there, it would make me feel special/a class above other people knowing my dealer offered those services. The Acura dealer where I used to service my cars (when I had an Acura ) was pretty good for loaners. Though they would often give me the abomination ILX.

I seen one grey RLX in the west side once (I beleive P-AWS, and there is a white RLX always in the north side around 97 street and 153 ave) that I see many times. Otherwise have never seen any others.

neuronbob

OK guys, I'll take this one: it was the Beak. And it's too bad, the 6MT with SH-AWD was freaking awesome to drive.

To answer the original question, I haven't heard anything from my usual sources about a consolidation. I personally think that would be a bad thing in that Acura does offer some unique tech that should be kept from the more plebeian Honda lines.

if I were king of Honda:

All cars would be SH-AWD and I would actually market why people in Arizona would benefit from SH-AWD in everyday driving.

I would pay a REAL car designer to design cars that wrap up all that Hondariffic tech like eSH-AWD. Acura, PAY THE MAN (OR WOMAN)! Get a LeBron-level designer. That will make a splash!

A HUD for every Acura! At least in the Advance trim anyway.

Buff up the SUVs since that's what we dumb Americans want. I'd accomplish this by getting rid of the sucky ILX and replacing it with an Acura version of the HR-V as an entry level CUV.

Then I'd bring back the S2000, badge it "Acura", and give it a baby-NSX awesome name.

Keep the NSX.

Bring back names! Be different from the Europeans.

OK, enough contributing to this useless discussion, Acura is going to keep doing what Acura does.

neuronbob

Just re-read my post. By "useless", I mean useless in terms of the ability to effect change at Acura. As long as Honda cheaps out, relatively speaking, on spending to make Acura more competitive, things will remain the same. I think we all agree there.

OTOH, Honda itself is hitting on all cylinders. Honda cars are en fuego as far as design, features, and function.

kurtatx

Right and I think it's probably fair to say that Honda itself is more responsible for the failures at Acura than anything inside Acura. There is design talent in the company. If every car in Acura's lineup was infused with DNA from the Acura NSX instead of the Honda Accord, Civic, Acura would be more expensive but also far more exciting. If Acura really released some head turners, it would not be too late for them to be more relevant. Accavitti knew that, Ikeda knows that, the dealerships know that.

George Knighton

There are only two Sport Hybrid models right now, but keep your eyes on 2020.

Not sure if they'll be Acura badged, or Honda badged, but I think it's the next thing, a stopgap on the way to all electric.

wackjum

It doesn't make financial sense to offer a loaner to every person who takes their car in for servicing. Some services are going to take some time, but not enough time to justify a loaner. Secondly, if there's a complimentary car wash, that's another 20-30 minutes added on. So even an "in and out" service time might get doubled.

I personally like the amenities. I rarely use them just because I have the ability to do most servicing myself. But for me, I look forward to the trip sort of because it is a time when I have nothing to do and nowhere to be and I can sit and enjoy a little time off. I've found a little "life hack" if you will. Texas requires an annual state inspection. The state inspection requires an on-road evaluation portion. The fee is also set by the State. I figured taking my cars to their respective dealership would be the safest place to make sure nobody was hooning my cars. I get to enjoy all the amenities, usually get a car wash, and pay just $25.10. I've used Acura, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan.

Sarlacc

I dispute this.

Its all regional. I've been to Honda dealers around the country that treat you better and more upscale than certain Acura dealers, who act like dirt merchants.

RDX10

No I agree completely. I was talking strictly in the case of myself when it comes to loaners. Most people can spend a bit of time waiting, I almost never can because I'm usually really busy during the day when servicing is open and I can't really sit there for an hour to two hours unless it's a saturday and at that point I usually have a shit ton of things I couldn't do during the week that I have to do on the weekend. Lol just for arguments sake I never ask for the car wash and in fact as I drop my keys off I make 100% certain he SA writes a big note of DO NOT WASH on my car. But when I take the loaner, I actually don't care how long they take my car for, in fact I usually prefer they take it for a longer amount of time so that I can get what I need done and then can drop it off at the end of the day and pick mine up.

In terms of ameneties, I can understand why someone who spends time at the dealer or waits there (even for 30 mins) would enjoy having something to do while
waiting. The one time I have had to wait, I just fiddled around with all the cars in the showroom lol. Opening all the bins and seeing build quality...etc. Maybe I would have not minded a spa at that point

George Knighton

Did you listen to any of the interviews that the project manager gave?

They were proud of that design. They really thought they were onto a bold, new thing.

They thought that...for about six months. :-)

TacoBello

I agree with George- the 4G TL was a great vehicle and very nice on the inside. The problem was the very polarizing looks on the outside.

People complained about the exterior for years, but Acura refused to listen and acknowledge it was an issue. Once again, Acura (or Honda) tell people what they want, as opposed to listen to what people want.

They could have kept everything the same about the 4G TL and just revise the front and rear and I'm willing to bet sales would have increased. The 4G was the start of their new design language at the time, but they refused to admit it was a bad decision. In my mind, the only vehicle that really pulled it off well was the MDX at the time.

I remember back in 2008, hearing the new TL was coming out and I was super excited for it, since the 3G was an absolute home run in terms of looks. The first time I saw a 2009 TL, I was confused. And then sad. And then confused again, thinking it was a joke. Finally, just dissapointed, realizing that truly was the new TL.

TacoBello

I really don't think so. This is the first time we are seriously having a discussion about the Acura brand dissolving. If Acura stays the same, there may never be a future Acura again. Who knows when that will happen.

Lincoln used to be a popular brand. Where are they today? Same could be said about Acura. Let's hope that Honda realizes this and chooses to invest, as opposed to liquidate.

RDX10

But lincoln is actually ACTIVELY trying to do something about that. They have a bunch of honestly really good looking cars now and they are trying things. The lincoln MKX walks ALL OVER the MDX any day of the week in terms of quality. It also has that gorgous 2.7TT with 350hp and 380 whopping lb/ft. What is Acura doing again? A new grille? Wow can't even tell it's a Honda with that grille

kurtatx

Problem is Lincoln has been a dead brand for a long time. Say what you want about Acura, it's not a dead brand. It's a dying sedan brand, but it's not Lincoln, a completely dead brand.

RDX10

I don't dispute that whatsoever. All I am saying is that Lincoln is trying to change that while Acura is doing nothing and watching themselves go under. They should be thanking God that they have the MDX and RDX to pick up the slack.

neuronbob

Yeah, Lincoln is going down fighting at least. It may not last much longer, but they are demonstrably trying.

Acura is taking baby steps, starting with the NSX. Here's hoping Honda chooses to support Acura a little better.

George Knighton

Both Continental and MKZ are very nice improvements, it seems to me. Both Cadillac and Lincoln can turn my head now, whereas just a few years ago, I wouldn't have given them the first look.

TacoBello

As mentioned, they are trying, but they're a little late to the game. Unfortunately, car stigmas die hard- so even if Lincoln is putting out solid gems right now, it takes years or decades to change people's perceptions. Look at Hyundai/Kia. They exactly knew this and as such, they put out meagre offerings at first, when they returned to the car game and slowly improved them with every generation. Some people still think they're cheap crap, but others have started to change their mind and realize that they are actually solid vehicles- and they're only getting better. If a decade ago you'd ask me what I thought about H/K, I'd laugh and toss them aside. These days? Not so much.

That's why im not expecting drastic changes from Acura. I'd prefer to see a well thought out plan to slowly move to the top. The thing with Acura is, their name isn't completely tarnished or forgotten. Not yet. They're getting close though. If Honda chooses to invest in Acura, they're still at a point where they can sincerely take back some market share with not too much of a struggle. I think the second generation ILX, TLX, and RLX will give us a good indication as to where this company is going. I sincerely hope it's only up.

They have the engineering prowess to be able to do it. Their designers are another story, though we will see what happens. I actually don't mind the refreshed MDX. Yes, the front badge is ginormous, but beyond that I think, at least the front, is taking a step towards Acura's previous edgy designs, with sharp lines.

kurtatx

^^^Kia/Hyundai is an apt comparison. Hyundai introduced Genesis at lease partially because no one associates Hyundai with the level of quality they push out.

WheelMcCoy

Adressing no one in particular:

1. Honda was rightly suspicious of turbo as it meant more wear and tear on the engine. Improved mpg only happened when you stayed out of turbo. And naturally aspirated meant linear response and vtec!
2. Regarding amenities, I got a massage at Acura and the masseuse used synthetic oil on my back. At Honda, the masseuse used a pedestrian grade of dino oil. Joking! I don't need much in terms of emenities. A wifi signal, coffee, a showroom, courtesy, and clean professional work on my car will suffice.
3. Acura once tried to put more separation between itself and Honda. They used BMW as a benchmark but found it much more difficult to achieve than initially thought. Hence, they have since fallen back to "smart luxury" or "premium."
4. If Honda does fold Acura back into the company, the domain name HONDAZINE is still available.

Booya4139

Agree with #1. Small turbo engines offer marginal real world efficiency at a more substantial cost of reliability and maintenance. Unless the car is performance oriented i only buy naturally aspirated engines.

Acura's failing is almost entirely exterior design driven. They just don't get it, and the revamp of the MDX grill only further solidifies the fact they have absolutely no clue how to design a car to illicit an emotional response. I bought my wife a '16 MDX advance and it is a fantastic vehicle.

I don't understand why they don't leverage their relative strengths... i.e. SH AWD and an absolutely sterling 6-MT. This combo should be available across their entire non SUV lineup. These should be marketed as drivers cars. Yes a small % buy MT's, but the enthusiasts create gravity to attract the masses. Thats the whole idea of creating halo cars, that you are by association getting a piece of the enthusiast experience.

TacoBello

Who the hell keeps saying turbo engines arent reliable? Quit living in 1980.

kurtatx

My parents' Chevy Cruze has a turbo in it. Every darn brand seems to have a 2.0T on the market. It's 2016 2017. If Honda can't figure out a reliable 2.0T, they should go out of business.

oonowindoo

Designed by American, made by American and for American.... it does make sense..

TacoBello

I don't hear many 2008 RDX Turbos blowing up these days. Do you? And there are some pretty high mileage ones out there. Case in point: Turbo systems ARE reliable. There can be poor examples, but there are also poor examples of NA engines.

I'm not arguing with you... I see what you mean. Just point out that even Honda can do turbos, even if done poorly.

TacoBello

Yeah, turbos can be unreliable when done in an aftermarket sense. Sure, go buy an ebay kit and see how long it lasts. Or cheap out on your build because you don't want to spend more than 6k. If it blows, it's not because the turbo system is unreliable. It's because someone was overly cheap and got what they paid for.