Volkswagen: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
11-03-2009, 02:09 AM
#283
2G TLX-S
I hope that Audi realizes that bigger and more expensive cars are not going to sell at the same pace as their predecessors.
I think Audi needs to get back to between the B5 and B6 size for their B9 A4 and try to cut the price of the car back to G37/TL prices and not follow BMW into the upper $40s for loaded cars in that segment.
I think Audi needs to get back to between the B5 and B6 size for their B9 A4 and try to cut the price of the car back to G37/TL prices and not follow BMW into the upper $40s for loaded cars in that segment.
11-09-2009, 05:16 PM
#284
The sizzle in the Steak
Volkswagen is #1: VW overtakes Toyota as world’s largest automaker
Well ahead of VW’s initial projection of becoming the world’s largest automaker by 2018, it has now officially surpassed Toyota Motor Corp. worldwide in unit production this year.
Over the weekend, German reports put VW Group at 4.4 million units for the first nine months of 2009, where Toyota has manufactured only 4.0 million units. This change is believed to be largely due to the success of government scrappage schemes that boded well with VW models.
VW Group’s sales for 2009 are up by 34 percent in the first nine months, totaling 622,853 units. VW’s Skoda brand in particular enjoyed the greatest growth in Germany with Fabia sales up by 92.4 percent, as well as Octavia sales up by 20.4 percent.
Although the scrappage schemes are believed to have played a role in VW’s early success, VW continues to do well along with the rest of the automotive industry in the German market in particular. The German market saw a 26.1 percent growth in registrations in October, despite the end of scrappage schemes in September.
Another major shift in world production was noted with Ford surpassing GM as the world’s third largest automaker. Ford reported 3.7 million units produced in the first nine months of 2009, with GM trailing only slightly with 3.6 million units produced.
Over the weekend, German reports put VW Group at 4.4 million units for the first nine months of 2009, where Toyota has manufactured only 4.0 million units. This change is believed to be largely due to the success of government scrappage schemes that boded well with VW models.
VW Group’s sales for 2009 are up by 34 percent in the first nine months, totaling 622,853 units. VW’s Skoda brand in particular enjoyed the greatest growth in Germany with Fabia sales up by 92.4 percent, as well as Octavia sales up by 20.4 percent.
Although the scrappage schemes are believed to have played a role in VW’s early success, VW continues to do well along with the rest of the automotive industry in the German market in particular. The German market saw a 26.1 percent growth in registrations in October, despite the end of scrappage schemes in September.
Another major shift in world production was noted with Ford surpassing GM as the world’s third largest automaker. Ford reported 3.7 million units produced in the first nine months of 2009, with GM trailing only slightly with 3.6 million units produced.
Props to VW.
Production versus sales.....I guess they all end up getting sold in the end.
Time to update the thread title.:wink:
11-09-2009, 07:59 PM
#286
Senior Moderator
I never thought that VW would top Toyota. Then again, I never thought that Toyota would top GM, either. 
Props to VW, they are truly the volks' wagen!
Props to VW, they are truly the volks' wagen!
11-09-2009, 10:14 PM
#287
Pro
VW still has ways to go in North America (in other markets it's doing quite well, including China). Once the reliability perception improves, it'll get more looks. The new GTI by the way looks very good.
11-10-2009, 07:25 AM
#288
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11-10-2009, 10:36 AM
#289
The sizzle in the Steak
11-10-2009, 11:24 AM
#290
I'm the Firestarter
Does that 4.4 million include Audi?
11-10-2009, 11:47 AM
#291
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
^ I think so.
11-10-2009, 11:48 AM
#292
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
VWToyota is having way too many problems this year.
11-10-2009, 12:09 PM
#293
The sizzle in the Steak
11-10-2009, 02:58 PM
#294
2G TLX-S
In addition, improving VW reliability will also erode the advantage of the much better Audi reliability compare to VW, thereby directly threatening Audi sales.
It will be a lose-lose situation. So, I don't think VW will ever shoot itself in the foot by improving VW reliablity at all.
11-10-2009, 03:45 PM
#295
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ 
11-10-2009, 04:13 PM
#297
The sizzle in the Steak
11-10-2009, 04:50 PM
#298
11-10-2009, 06:42 PM
#299
Senior Moderator
But what exactly does that have to do with how VW being reliable will hurt Audi sales.
Edward, I guess I understand your opinion that making VW more reliable can raise costs, I just don't at all agree with it.
11-10-2009, 08:18 PM
#300
you have to consider cash for clunker benefited Toyota far more than VW.
11-11-2009, 07:42 AM
#302
Senior Moderator
because Audi will have to improve futher to differentiate itself from VW. so it will raise the cost further. This whole reliability issue is mostly problem of North American operations. China/India/Europe/Middleast/latin America/Africa there is no problem.
you have to consider cash for clunker benefited Toyota far more than VW.
you have to consider cash for clunker benefited Toyota far more than VW.
11-11-2009, 07:52 AM
#303
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Toyota outsold VW by 1million units
Ok, so Toyota is still way ahead of VW in sales. From January to September this year, Toyota recorded 5.65 million sales globally, while Volkswagen posted 4.76 million sales. So Toyota leads in sales by almost 1 million, they just adjusted their inventory by lowering production in Q1.
11-11-2009, 06:55 PM
#305
2G TLX-S
VW and Audi both started out with POOR reliabilities back in the 90's. However, with the advent of A4/A6/A8, Audi reliabilities started to improve, and especially so during the past 5 to 6 years. At the same time, Audi price tags goes up in step with increased reliability, and Audi sales also begins to take off.
However, VW reliability has not changed a single bit, and why should it ? VW's are the European version of the economy cars, and European economy cars in Europe are all like this.
Now Audi reliability matches those of BMW and MB, but VW reliability continues to remain POOR.
Anyone worked in the manufacturing-related fields knows that better reliability and better quality are achieved in the expense of better engineered parts (= higher cost) and slower throughput (= lower yield). So why doubt that better VW reliability comes with a higher price tag ?
However, the Japanese auto brands won't have to go through this, because their factories and advanced manufacturing methods are already set up for building reliable products.
11-11-2009, 08:00 PM
#306
Senior Moderator
While that theory doesnt seem far fetched, it does make me wonder how can the reliability be so different when so many parts/engines are shared. Even part numbers match so its not like they making cheaper versions.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
11-11-2009, 09:31 PM
#307
Fahrvergnügen'd
While that theory doesnt seem far fetched, it does make me wonder how can the reliability be so different when so many parts/engines are shared. Even part numbers match so its not like they making cheaper versions.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
I don't think Americans have a higher standard than Germans or Brits. I think it's human nature to want something nice to last for a while.
11-12-2009, 06:25 AM
#308
AZ Community Team
...
Anyone worked in the manufacturing-related fields knows that better reliability and better quality are achieved in the expense of better engineered parts (= higher cost) and slower throughput (= lower yield). So why doubt that better VW reliability comes with a higher price tag ?
...
Anyone worked in the manufacturing-related fields knows that better reliability and better quality are achieved in the expense of better engineered parts (= higher cost) and slower throughput (= lower yield). So why doubt that better VW reliability comes with a higher price tag ?
...
One of the best examples of better engineering and much lower costs is something used by all the people on this forum. The phone/ethernet jack (RJ11/RJ45) was invented by a Bell Labs mechanical engineer which lowered the connector cost dramatically yet was very cheap but amazingly reliable.
11-12-2009, 09:49 AM
#309
I'm the Firestarter
Ok, so Toyota is still way ahead of VW in sales. From January to September this year, Toyota recorded 5.65 million sales globally, while Volkswagen posted 4.76 million sales. So Toyota leads in sales by almost 1 million, they just adjusted their inventory by lowering production in Q1.
11-12-2009, 02:40 PM
#310
The sizzle in the Steak
VW/Audi to open flagship showroom in Manhattan
Volkswagen is set to purchase a 265,000 square foot showroom at 11th Avenue and 56th Street in Manhattan that will serve as a highly visible showcase for the company’s VW and Audi brands.
The German automaker says that the showroom will debut a new design concept for VW and will open early next year as a VW dealership before the Audi showroom is unveiled later in the year.
CB Richard Ellis, the agency that handled the sale, says that VW paid $84 million for the real estate but also intends to invest another $41 million into a thorough renovation.
Numerous other automakers also operate flagship showrooms in Manhattan; the new VW-Audi complex will be just blocks from similar facilities showcasing Mercedes-Benz and BMW.
The showroom is currently owned by Potamkin Auto Group, which sells Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Hummer and Saab models. Potamkin is moving the GM (and soon to be non-GM) brands to its former Honda showroom also on 11th Avenue in Manhattan when it sells off that franchise.
The building has a storied history in the automotive world; it was owned by GM until 1979 when Potamkin bought it and opened up Manhattan Cadillac. Later, GM bought back the facility for a short period before selling it back to Potamkin.
The German automaker says that the showroom will debut a new design concept for VW and will open early next year as a VW dealership before the Audi showroom is unveiled later in the year.
CB Richard Ellis, the agency that handled the sale, says that VW paid $84 million for the real estate but also intends to invest another $41 million into a thorough renovation.
Numerous other automakers also operate flagship showrooms in Manhattan; the new VW-Audi complex will be just blocks from similar facilities showcasing Mercedes-Benz and BMW.
The showroom is currently owned by Potamkin Auto Group, which sells Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Hummer and Saab models. Potamkin is moving the GM (and soon to be non-GM) brands to its former Honda showroom also on 11th Avenue in Manhattan when it sells off that franchise.
The building has a storied history in the automotive world; it was owned by GM until 1979 when Potamkin bought it and opened up Manhattan Cadillac. Later, GM bought back the facility for a short period before selling it back to Potamkin.
Volkswagen is getting serious. VW dealers need an update if VW wants to continue its rise in the U.S.
Sounds good!
11-12-2009, 03:47 PM
#311
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http://www.leftlanenews.com/vwaudi-t...tml#more-22590
Volkswagen is getting serious. VW dealers need an update if VW wants to continue its rise in the U.S.
Sounds good!
Volkswagen is getting serious. VW dealers need an update if VW wants to continue its rise in the U.S.
Sounds good!
11-12-2009, 06:48 PM
#312
2G TLX-S
Majority of the time, that statement is simply not true. Better engineered parts are the result of innovation which improves quality/reliability and lowers cost/time. Classic example are integrated circuits which allowed cheaper electronic devices that were vastly better in quality and reliability. One on a Honda is using cast iron over steel pipes for the camshaft manufacturing process. Another is the uses of MEMS airbag sensors from Analog Devices, that lowered the cost of airbag sensors by over a order of magnitude yet the accuracy was far better than the older mechanical accelerometers used when the MEMS sensors were introduced.
One of the best examples of better engineering and much lower costs is something used by all the people on this forum. The phone/ethernet jack (RJ11/RJ45) was invented by a Bell Labs mechanical engineer which lowered the connector cost dramatically yet was very cheap but amazingly reliable.
One of the best examples of better engineering and much lower costs is something used by all the people on this forum. The phone/ethernet jack (RJ11/RJ45) was invented by a Bell Labs mechanical engineer which lowered the connector cost dramatically yet was very cheap but amazingly reliable.
The 3rd gear clutch pack failure of the 2G TL's is a classic example of what is not a better engineered part. Honda had identified that the tranny part supplier had shipped 3rd gear clutch packs which are out of tolerance. This resulted in the clutch packs generating too much heat which partly contributed to the demise of the 2G TL trannies.
However, your take of better engineered parts is to do with new technologies and new innovations. Computer and integrated circuit (IC) technologies make advancement everyday to become faster, cheaper, and more powerful. As a result, this will definitely come down in cost.
11-12-2009, 07:46 PM
#313
2G TLX-S
While that theory doesnt seem far fetched, it does make me wonder how can the reliability be so different when so many parts/engines are shared. Even part numbers match so its not like they making cheaper versions.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
My theory on why VW is perceived as poor reliability is because VWs sells so many cars in volume, therefore more are being noticed when troubles do occur.
VW and Audi vehicles are not identical, they are designed and engineered differently. Even though they share the same platform and some auto parts, but performance and reliability will never come out the same, when the shared parts are working in conjunction with the remaining VW-exclusive parts and setups on VW vehicles and with the remaining Audi-exclusive parts and setups on Audi vehicles.
Only in identical cars such as the European Accord and the rebadged Acura TSX will reliability be the same.
Here are some of the differences between VW and Audi :
- both the interior and exterior are different (these are all different parts).
- the Audi interior trims have better fitting = tighter tolerances = higher quality production lines (like the better interior fitting on the TL vs the Accord).
- Audi uses a more advance V6 powerplants, whereas VW, A3, TT use the aging VR6 extensively.
- Audi uses MMI as the in-car interface system, which fiber-optically links up all major modules. This eliminates the problem-prone massive wirings that VW are still using.
- Audi (Quattro) uses a completely different AWD system than VW (4motion).
This list can go on and on. So it is easily seen that the similar reliability of the few shared parts between VW and Audi can hardly offset the vast difference in reliability of the massive remaining numbers of non-shared parts.
11-12-2009, 08:47 PM
#314
2G TLX-S
Not to mention that it seems that he's asserting that Europeans tolerate buying pieces of shit to the point that VW is the #1 selling brand in Western Europe.
I don't think Americans have a higher standard than Germans or Brits. I think it's human nature to want something nice to last for a while.
I don't think Americans have a higher standard than Germans or Brits. I think it's human nature to want something nice to last for a while.
The Europeans have no such luck.
The Europeans are used to the European auto reliability (which we know is poor using our NA benchmark). The top Japanese auto makers have never been able to penetrate the European market. The Europeans have no choice financially, but to stuck with the European economy brands such as VW, Seat, Skoda, Renault, GM, Ford, Peugeot, etc., and typical European reliability becomes their norm.
VW brand is a domestic brand in Europe, while the Japanese brands are import brands. In Europe, a 5-door VW Golf is cheaper than a 5-door Honda Civic (it's the other way round in NA). This also contributes why VW sells more vehicles in Europe : price advantage.
However, as we all know, the best reliability by European auto makers are from BMW, MB, and Audi. But these are premium brands which are out of reach of the majority of the Europeans.
Until the time when Japanese autos become cheaper and more popular in Europe and the Europeans have wider exposure to top notch Japanese auto reliability, then I can say the North Americans and Europeans have the same perception of auto reliability standard.
11-13-2009, 06:13 AM
#315
AZ Community Team
I agree on the design of the clutch pack but part of that problem was poor supply chain management. Other clutch pack manufacturers made that componenent and followed the tolerance and process procedures. The gearboxes with those had far better realiability than the one troublesome metal fabricator in Ohio (can't recall their name).
Quite often new technologies and innovations are all over your vehicle but it's hard to identify. One that amazes me is recent CV Joint Boots. My wife's 2003 Pilot with 145K miles is has original boots front and rear. Our 1989 Legend would naybe get 70-80K miles before the boots would tear. Better rubber polymers have made the newer boots last over twice as long.
Other great examples are piston rings and valve guides. Now a days they are lifetime components on engines, rarely needing replacement. Ford gave an award once to one of their V6 engine piston ring manufacturers, that manufacturer rings had zero defects in over 4 million rings delivered. Pretty amazing process control.
Some better engineering does result in higher cost, but when done correctly it typically lowers cost. My Mom had a 1995 C280 and my take on most of the things that went wrong was detail in execution (case in point the rear differential seals) of some components. That IMO is what makes most German cars more troublesome, even today most of the times I see great engineering and component quality but little missed details cost them in reliability.
Quite often new technologies and innovations are all over your vehicle but it's hard to identify. One that amazes me is recent CV Joint Boots. My wife's 2003 Pilot with 145K miles is has original boots front and rear. Our 1989 Legend would naybe get 70-80K miles before the boots would tear. Better rubber polymers have made the newer boots last over twice as long.
Other great examples are piston rings and valve guides. Now a days they are lifetime components on engines, rarely needing replacement. Ford gave an award once to one of their V6 engine piston ring manufacturers, that manufacturer rings had zero defects in over 4 million rings delivered. Pretty amazing process control.
Some better engineering does result in higher cost, but when done correctly it typically lowers cost. My Mom had a 1995 C280 and my take on most of the things that went wrong was detail in execution (case in point the rear differential seals) of some components. That IMO is what makes most German cars more troublesome, even today most of the times I see great engineering and component quality but little missed details cost them in reliability.
My take of better engineered parts is to do with higher quality materials, smaller tolerances, and better production yields, which all result in higher costs.
The 3rd gear clutch pack failure of the 2G TL's is a classic example of what is not a better engineered part. Honda had identified that the tranny part supplier had shipped 3rd gear clutch packs which are out of tolerance. This resulted in the clutch packs generating too much heat which partly contributed to the demise of the 2G TL trannies.
However, your take of better engineered parts is to do with new technologies and new innovations. Computer and integrated circuit (IC) technologies make advancement everyday to become faster, cheaper, and more powerful. As a result, this will definitely come down in cost.
The 3rd gear clutch pack failure of the 2G TL's is a classic example of what is not a better engineered part. Honda had identified that the tranny part supplier had shipped 3rd gear clutch packs which are out of tolerance. This resulted in the clutch packs generating too much heat which partly contributed to the demise of the 2G TL trannies.
However, your take of better engineered parts is to do with new technologies and new innovations. Computer and integrated circuit (IC) technologies make advancement everyday to become faster, cheaper, and more powerful. As a result, this will definitely come down in cost.
11-13-2009, 07:16 AM
#316
AZ Community Team
I agree on this point I think most Europeans accept the cost of car ownership and maintenance better than Americans. The US owners typically expect their cars to cost almost nothing, be as dependable as the Sun, require almost no maintenance, and last decades. That was a very rough quote from the CEO of Renault in the mid/late 80's when they pulled out of the US market.
It's human nature to take things for granted. The North Americans are spoiled. Spoiled by the top notch auto reliability that the top Japanese auto makers are giving us. After all, the North America (NA) has become the biggest auto market for these top Japanese auto makers. As a result, we are so used to this top notch auto reliability that it has become our NA benchmark for auto reliability. Anything less is not acceptable.
The Europeans have no such luck.
The Europeans are used to the European auto reliability (which we know is poor using our NA benchmark). The top Japanese auto makers have never been able to penetrate the European market. The Europeans have no choice financially, but to stuck with the European economy brands such as VW, Seat, Skoda, Renault, GM, Ford, Peugeot, etc., and typical European reliability becomes their norm.
VW brand is a domestic brand in Europe, while the Japanese brands are import brands. In Europe, a 5-door VW Golf is cheaper than a 5-door Honda Civic (it's the other way round in NA). This also contributes why VW sells more vehicles in Europe : price advantage.
However, as we all know, the best reliability by European auto makers are from BMW, MB, and Audi. But these are premium brands which are out of reach of the majority of the Europeans.
Until the time when Japanese autos become cheaper and more popular in Europe and the Europeans have wider exposure to top notch Japanese auto reliability, then I can say the North Americans and Europeans have the same perception of auto reliability standard.
The Europeans have no such luck.
The Europeans are used to the European auto reliability (which we know is poor using our NA benchmark). The top Japanese auto makers have never been able to penetrate the European market. The Europeans have no choice financially, but to stuck with the European economy brands such as VW, Seat, Skoda, Renault, GM, Ford, Peugeot, etc., and typical European reliability becomes their norm.
VW brand is a domestic brand in Europe, while the Japanese brands are import brands. In Europe, a 5-door VW Golf is cheaper than a 5-door Honda Civic (it's the other way round in NA). This also contributes why VW sells more vehicles in Europe : price advantage.
However, as we all know, the best reliability by European auto makers are from BMW, MB, and Audi. But these are premium brands which are out of reach of the majority of the Europeans.
Until the time when Japanese autos become cheaper and more popular in Europe and the Europeans have wider exposure to top notch Japanese auto reliability, then I can say the North Americans and Europeans have the same perception of auto reliability standard.
11-14-2009, 11:40 AM
#317
It's human nature to take things for granted. The North Americans are spoiled. Spoiled by the top notch auto reliability that the top Japanese auto makers are giving us. After all, the North America (NA) has become the biggest auto market for these top Japanese auto makers. As a result, we are so used to this top notch auto reliability that it has become our NA benchmark for auto reliability. Anything less is not acceptable.
The Europeans have no such luck.
The Europeans are used to the European auto reliability (which we know is poor using our NA benchmark). The top Japanese auto makers have never been able to penetrate the European market. The Europeans have no choice financially, but to stuck with the European economy brands such as VW, Seat, Skoda, Renault, GM, Ford, Peugeot, etc., and typical European reliability becomes their norm.
VW brand is a domestic brand in Europe, while the Japanese brands are import brands. In Europe, a 5-door VW Golf is cheaper than a 5-door Honda Civic (it's the other way round in NA). This also contributes why VW sells more vehicles in Europe : price advantage.
However, as we all know, the best reliability by European auto makers are from BMW, MB, and Audi. But these are premium brands which are out of reach of the majority of the Europeans.
Until the time when Japanese autos become cheaper and more popular in Europe and the Europeans have wider exposure to top notch Japanese auto reliability, then I can say the North Americans and Europeans have the same perception of auto reliability standard.
The Europeans have no such luck.
The Europeans are used to the European auto reliability (which we know is poor using our NA benchmark). The top Japanese auto makers have never been able to penetrate the European market. The Europeans have no choice financially, but to stuck with the European economy brands such as VW, Seat, Skoda, Renault, GM, Ford, Peugeot, etc., and typical European reliability becomes their norm.
VW brand is a domestic brand in Europe, while the Japanese brands are import brands. In Europe, a 5-door VW Golf is cheaper than a 5-door Honda Civic (it's the other way round in NA). This also contributes why VW sells more vehicles in Europe : price advantage.
However, as we all know, the best reliability by European auto makers are from BMW, MB, and Audi. But these are premium brands which are out of reach of the majority of the Europeans.
Until the time when Japanese autos become cheaper and more popular in Europe and the Europeans have wider exposure to top notch Japanese auto reliability, then I can say the North Americans and Europeans have the same perception of auto reliability standard.
Honda Civic EX GT has 2.2 diesel with `150bhp while Goft GT has 2.0 L 140bhp. (170bhp version is alot more expensive). Only bare bones Golf is cheaper than Honda Civic.
11-14-2009, 11:53 AM
#318
Last edited by SSFTSX; 11-14-2009 at 11:57 AM.
11-14-2009, 03:00 PM
#319
2G TLX-S
VW Golf is not cheaper than 5 door Honda Civic. (Honda Civic is also produced in UK unlike Euro Accord). 5 door EX GT Honda Civic has Climate control/Heated Seats/Leather/Navigation/Bluetooth/Rear Parking sensor. All of which cost extra in Golf.
Honda Civic EX GT has 2.2 diesel with `150bhp while Goft GT has 2.0 L 140bhp. (170bhp version is alot more expensive). Only bare bones Golf is cheaper than Honda Civic.
Honda Civic EX GT has 2.2 diesel with `150bhp while Goft GT has 2.0 L 140bhp. (170bhp version is alot more expensive). Only bare bones Golf is cheaper than Honda Civic.
11-14-2009, 03:19 PM
#320
2G TLX-S
.....
Some better engineering does result in higher cost, but when done correctly it typically lowers cost. My Mom had a 1995 C280 and my take on most of the things that went wrong was detail in execution (case in point the rear differential seals) of some components. That IMO is what makes most German cars more troublesome, even today most of the times I see great engineering and component quality but little missed details cost them in reliability.
As a result, it comes to the perception that the German auto makers have made little improvement in reliability, even though they have already been moving up in the reliability scale.
