Volkswagen: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
04-17-2009, 03:55 PM
#241
_____ like a rabbit
04-17-2009, 04:33 PM
#243
^ 
and they need to update their interiors. nicely designed and crafted, but the same layout in every single friggin car is just ridiculous.
and they need to update their interiors. nicely designed and crafted, but the same layout in every single friggin car is just ridiculous.
04-17-2009, 04:53 PM
#244
The sizzle in the Steak
04-17-2009, 07:41 PM
#246
04-17-2009, 08:31 PM
#247
2G TLX-S
^^^^^ Engine redline at only 4500 rpm ? Must be one of the small displacement turbo cars.
04-17-2009, 08:34 PM
#248
2G TLX-S
04-17-2009, 11:26 PM
#249
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04-18-2009, 12:55 AM
#251
2G TLX-S
Only Audi reliability has been greatly improved, VW reliability is still bad. I guess part of the premium price for the Audi vehicles goes into improving Audi product reliability. Nothing comes free. It's always true that you get what you pay for.
04-18-2009, 01:11 AM
#252
that's what I was gonna say.... cue the jokes about how VW owners become skilled at changing fuses while driving 
I also hate working on VWs.... they do some strange things sometimes, such as 20 different fastener sizes for their brake assemblies. I work at a parts counter now and went out to a lady's Jetta to help her diagnose a weird sound.... and while I was doing it, I noticed the intake manifold sits right above where the spark plugs go
WTF!Quality > Quantity (see *formerly* Big 3)
04-18-2009, 09:08 AM
#253
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Don't get me started on the A5. It's a $50k car that is beautiful inside and out, but Audi saddles it with a 265 hp 3.2L engine in the US. I would expect that a $50k coupe would have more power than a V6 accord.
04-18-2009, 11:07 AM
#254
From what I've read, the new A4's reliability is still far from stellar and its 2.0T engine sucks oil like nobody's business.
Don't get me started on the A5. It's a $50k car that is beautiful inside and out, but Audi saddles it with a 265 hp 3.2L engine in the US. I would expect that a $50k coupe would have more power than a V6 accord.
Don't get me started on the A5. It's a $50k car that is beautiful inside and out, but Audi saddles it with a 265 hp 3.2L engine in the US. I would expect that a $50k coupe would have more power than a V6 accord.
Infact even Q5 SUV is faster than $50K RL despite having 300 lbs more weight and 8 inch more height on 19inch Rims.
Acura engines and tranmissions are outdated thats why they are cheap not mention most of them built in US/Canada.
http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a5/2008/testdrive.html
Performance
The all-wheel-drive 2008 Audi A5 is motivated by a 3.2-liter V6 that generates 265 horsepower and 243 pound-feet of torque. Our test car was equipped with the six-speed automatic transmission. We hustled the A5 from zero to 60 mph in a tidy 6.4 seconds, with the quarter-mile flashing by in 14.5 seconds at 97.3 mph. Braking performance was beyond reproach, as the A5 posted a world-class 108-foot stopping distance from 60 to zero mph
Performance
The all-wheel-drive 2008 Audi A5 is motivated by a 3.2-liter V6 that generates 265 horsepower and 243 pound-feet of torque. Our test car was equipped with the six-speed automatic transmission. We hustled the A5 from zero to 60 mph in a tidy 6.4 seconds, with the quarter-mile flashing by in 14.5 seconds at 97.3 mph. Braking performance was beyond reproach, as the A5 posted a world-class 108-foot stopping distance from 60 to zero mph
A true sport coupe, this massively heavy Audi manages to get the job done through the cones. Very good transitional stability and body control. Good steering feedback at speed. Impressive
04-18-2009, 07:22 PM
#256
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Regardless of how you spin it, the A5 is also less powerful than even the TL. It may be slightly faster, but it is also significantly smaller, lighter and more expensive than the TL, so it should be.
04-18-2009, 08:08 PM
#257
Please don't try to defend Audi's choice to include a severely underpowered engine in the A5, which is not competing with the TL. Dynamically, the A5 does not even compare to the 335 and the G37, which are its true competition. Audi does not have a competitive NA gasoline V6 for the North American market.
When 3.0T is introduced across the line up that it will become cheaper and even faster than anything else its class.
Regardless of how you spin it, the A5 is also less powerful than even the TL. It may be slightly faster, but it is also significantly smaller, lighter and more expensive than the TL, so it should be.
A5 can manage sub 5 sec mark with 3.0T engine when A6 is so close to achiving it. can 305 bhp TL manage it ?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...est/index.html
And that seat-of-the-pants sensation translates to the hard data: Acceleration to 60 mph takes 5.4 sec, just a tenth off the pace of the outgoing Nissan 350Z Track. Sure, the Z reaches the quarter-mile mark a little over a tenth faster, but this A6 is an inconspicuous, all-wheel-drive, 4139-lb sedan.
There's no belt whine at speed, either. The engine fires in silenced, but powerful blasts. It's quiet and deceivingly quick -- a good combination for, say, a spy.
And that seat-of-the-pants sensation translates to the hard data: Acceleration to 60 mph takes 5.4 sec, just a tenth off the pace of the outgoing Nissan 350Z Track. Sure, the Z reaches the quarter-mile mark a little over a tenth faster, but this A6 is an inconspicuous, all-wheel-drive, 4139-lb sedan.
There's no belt whine at speed, either. The engine fires in silenced, but powerful blasts. It's quiet and deceivingly quick -- a good combination for, say, a spy.
04-18-2009, 08:30 PM
#258
This 3,835-pound Bavarian lacks the tossable, light-on-its-feet character that our favorite sporting coupes share, for example. There's also the issue of price. Compared with Mercedes-Benz's CLK350, the A5 looks like a bargain, but its overall performance lags behind that of BMW's competitively priced 3 Series coupes, as well as Infiniti's even more affordable G37.
04-18-2009, 08:50 PM
#259
AWD G37 has 7speed auto.
G37 without AWD is noiser by 4 dba. you cannot consider G37 as luxury crusier.
http://www.edmunds.com/infiniti/g37/2009/testdrive.html
7speed DSG even with 3.2L will close the gap.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rev...a5-32-quattro/
Throw out your copy of WardsAuto “Interior of the Year” awards. The Audi A5 with the S Line seats is four-wheeled Hammer time: the world’s best automotive interior. Nobody can touch the way this cabin looks, works, feels and smells
All that said, if someone told me they’d bought/leased a A5 3.2 Quattro with the S-Line package because they loved the way the car looked, inside and out, I wouldn’t begrudge their choice. A car can’t do everything well—even if it’s on the “there goes my annual bonus” side of expensive. To achieve genuine excellence, an automobile simply has to do one thing better than anyone else. In the A5’s case, it’s what’s inside that counts.
Throw out your copy of WardsAuto “Interior of the Year” awards. The Audi A5 with the S Line seats is four-wheeled Hammer time: the world’s best automotive interior. Nobody can touch the way this cabin looks, works, feels and smells
All that said, if someone told me they’d bought/leased a A5 3.2 Quattro with the S-Line package because they loved the way the car looked, inside and out, I wouldn’t begrudge their choice. A car can’t do everything well—even if it’s on the “there goes my annual bonus” side of expensive. To achieve genuine excellence, an automobile simply has to do one thing better than anyone else. In the A5’s case, it’s what’s inside that counts.
04-18-2009, 09:21 PM
#260
You were talking performance and how it was superior. It's not.
04-18-2009, 11:07 PM
#261
Your comparing two different class of cars. How is performance of BMW 530XI. It is in similar weight and price point of A5 and still it does not had blind spot montioring or LED lights. A5 is not cheap performance car. There will always be S5/RS5 for performance.
A5 is faster than RL/TL for 2008 model years introduced in 2007. you have to compare similar weight, price point and refinement. you cannot compare unrefined junk with luxury cruiser.
A5 is faster than RL/TL for 2008 model years introduced in 2007. you have to compare similar weight, price point and refinement. you cannot compare unrefined junk with luxury cruiser.
http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_g...5/2009_audi_a5
Strong V-6, extraordinary refinement, sophisticated design, quick and sporty responses.
Strong V-6, extraordinary refinement, sophisticated design, quick and sporty responses.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/fullreview/audi_a5_2009
With high-grade materials and plenty of attention to small design details, the interior of the 2009 Audi A5 feels lavish and luxurious. Automobile Magazine remarks, "when you open the door [you] find one of the best interiors offered today, for any car at any price."
With high-grade materials and plenty of attention to small design details, the interior of the 2009 Audi A5 feels lavish and luxurious. Automobile Magazine remarks, "when you open the door [you] find one of the best interiors offered today, for any car at any price."
04-19-2009, 12:25 AM
#262
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SSFTSX, you are confusing me. So does the A5 compete with 335i/G37, or the 530xi (which doesn't exist anymore, as it's been replaced by the 535xi)?
Why am I asking this you might be wondering, because this is what you said:
"How A5 does not compare with 335/G37. It has superior ride, refinement, slolam run, braking, LED lights. offcourse Audi is premium brand it cant put much better engine for $50K coupe"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be you were saying the A5 compares well with the 335i/G37 and is better than those two in certain areas. However, when Phile said,
"Actually, according to that Edwards article you linked to, it is not superior in all those areas."
You replied,
"Your [should be you are, or you're, by the way] comparing two different class of cars. How is performance of BMW 530XI. It is in similar weight and price point of A5 and still it does not had blind spot montioring or LED lights."
So, in one post, you are saying the A5 competes with the 335i and G37, and is better in some areas, but in another post, you are saying because the A5 is similar in size and weight as the 530xi, the 5 series is a better competitor, and in doing so, the A5 is better. I don't know man, you are contradicting yourself here. Are you trying to say that, the A5 is the best because it's faster than a 530xi which is more expensive while offering more features, and it's also the best because "it has superior ride, refinement, slalom run, braking, LED lights"?
But then you totally ignored the fact that the 5 series is a sedan, while the A5 is a coupe, and you also ignored the fact that the 530xi has been replaced by the 535xi, which is slightly faster than the new A6 3.0T.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
BMW 535xi: 0-60: 5.4s, 1/4 mile: 14s@102mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Audi 3.0T Quattro: 0-60: 5.5s, 1/4 mile: 14s@100mph
Hold on, let me guess, you will say the A6 will be quieter and more fuel efficient than the 5 series?
And then you said this,
"Its a heavy sports coupe (3900lbs in Auto) with smallest capacity non turbo engine. And still it performs decent. much better than any Acura with higher capacity engines. and it was introduced in 2007.
AWD G37 has 7speed auto. "
Why does it matter? This is what you said before,
"6speed Auto will not help TL a lot as it is outdated engine." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=3
The G37's engine is outdated too, the VQ is also a design from 10+years ago, just like the J series. So why does 7AT have to do with anything, if 6AT wouldn't help the TL? Let me guess, you will say, TL is a heavier car, and it's ugly, so 6AT won't help?
Why am I asking this you might be wondering, because this is what you said:
"How A5 does not compare with 335/G37. It has superior ride, refinement, slolam run, braking, LED lights. offcourse Audi is premium brand it cant put much better engine for $50K coupe"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be you were saying the A5 compares well with the 335i/G37 and is better than those two in certain areas. However, when Phile said,
"Actually, according to that Edwards article you linked to, it is not superior in all those areas."
You replied,
"Your [should be you are, or you're, by the way] comparing two different class of cars. How is performance of BMW 530XI. It is in similar weight and price point of A5 and still it does not had blind spot montioring or LED lights."
So, in one post, you are saying the A5 competes with the 335i and G37, and is better in some areas, but in another post, you are saying because the A5 is similar in size and weight as the 530xi, the 5 series is a better competitor, and in doing so, the A5 is better. I don't know man, you are contradicting yourself here. Are you trying to say that, the A5 is the best because it's faster than a 530xi which is more expensive while offering more features, and it's also the best because "it has superior ride, refinement, slalom run, braking, LED lights"?
But then you totally ignored the fact that the 5 series is a sedan, while the A5 is a coupe, and you also ignored the fact that the 530xi has been replaced by the 535xi, which is slightly faster than the new A6 3.0T.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
BMW 535xi: 0-60: 5.4s, 1/4 mile: 14s@102mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Audi 3.0T Quattro: 0-60: 5.5s, 1/4 mile: 14s@100mph
Hold on, let me guess, you will say the A6 will be quieter and more fuel efficient than the 5 series?
And then you said this,
"Its a heavy sports coupe (3900lbs in Auto) with smallest capacity non turbo engine. And still it performs decent. much better than any Acura with higher capacity engines. and it was introduced in 2007.
AWD G37 has 7speed auto. "
Why does it matter? This is what you said before,
"6speed Auto will not help TL a lot as it is outdated engine." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=3
The G37's engine is outdated too, the VQ is also a design from 10+years ago, just like the J series. So why does 7AT have to do with anything, if 6AT wouldn't help the TL? Let me guess, you will say, TL is a heavier car, and it's ugly, so 6AT won't help?
04-19-2009, 12:57 AM
#263
Why am I asking this you might be wondering, because this is what you said:
"How A5 does not compare with 335/G37. It has superior ride, refinement, slolam run, braking, LED lights. offcourse Audi is premium brand it cant put much better engine for $50K coupe"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be you were saying the A5 compares well with the 335i/G37 and is better than those two in certain areas. However, when Phile said,
"How A5 does not compare with 335/G37. It has superior ride, refinement, slolam run, braking, LED lights. offcourse Audi is premium brand it cant put much better engine for $50K coupe"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be you were saying the A5 compares well with the 335i/G37 and is better than those two in certain areas. However, when Phile said,
"Actually, according to that Edwards article you linked to, it is not superior in all those areas."
You replied,
"Your [should be you are, or you're, by the way] comparing two different class of cars. How is performance of BMW 530XI. It is in similar weight and price point of A5 and still it does not had blind spot montioring or LED lights."
So, in one post, you are saying the A5 competes with the 335i and G37, and is better in some areas, but in another post, you are saying because the A5 is similar in size and weight as the 530xi, the 5 series is a better competitor, and in doing so, the A5 is better. I don't know man, you are contradicting yourself here. Are you trying to say that, the A5 is the best because it's faster than a 530xi which is more expensive while offering more features, and it's also the best because "it has superior ride, refinement, slalom run, braking, LED lights"?
You replied,
"Your [should be you are, or you're, by the way] comparing two different class of cars. How is performance of BMW 530XI. It is in similar weight and price point of A5 and still it does not had blind spot montioring or LED lights."
So, in one post, you are saying the A5 competes with the 335i and G37, and is better in some areas, but in another post, you are saying because the A5 is similar in size and weight as the 530xi, the 5 series is a better competitor, and in doing so, the A5 is better. I don't know man, you are contradicting yourself here. Are you trying to say that, the A5 is the best because it's faster than a 530xi which is more expensive while offering more features, and it's also the best because "it has superior ride, refinement, slalom run, braking, LED lights"?
But then you totally ignored the fact that the 5 series is a sedan, while the A5 is a coupe, and you also ignored the fact that the 530xi has been replaced by the 535xi, which is slightly faster than the new A6 3.0T.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
BMW 535xi: 0-60: 5.4s, 1/4 mile: 14s@102mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Audi 3.0T Quattro: 0-60: 5.5s, 1/4 mile: 14s@100mph
Hold on, let me guess, you will say the A6 will be quieter and more fuel efficient than the 5 series?
BMW 535xi: 0-60: 5.4s, 1/4 mile: 14s@102mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Audi 3.0T Quattro: 0-60: 5.5s, 1/4 mile: 14s@100mph
Hold on, let me guess, you will say the A6 will be quieter and more fuel efficient than the 5 series?
And then you said this,
"Its a heavy sports coupe (3900lbs in Auto) with smallest capacity non turbo engine. And still it performs decent. much better than any Acura with higher capacity engines. and it was introduced in 2007.
AWD G37 has 7speed auto. "
Why does it matter? This is what you said before,
"6speed Auto will not help TL a lot as it is outdated engine." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=3
The G37's engine is outdated too, the VQ is also a design from 10+years ago, just like the J series. So why does 7AT have to do with anything, if 6AT wouldn't help the TL? Let me guess, you will say, TL is a heavier car, and it's ugly, so 6AT won't help?
"Its a heavy sports coupe (3900lbs in Auto) with smallest capacity non turbo engine. And still it performs decent. much better than any Acura with higher capacity engines. and it was introduced in 2007.
AWD G37 has 7speed auto. "
Why does it matter? This is what you said before,
"6speed Auto will not help TL a lot as it is outdated engine." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=3
The G37's engine is outdated too, the VQ is also a design from 10+years ago, just like the J series. So why does 7AT have to do with anything, if 6AT wouldn't help the TL? Let me guess, you will say, TL is a heavier car, and it's ugly, so 6AT won't help?
so how old 3.2L Audi engine? they were making this 265bhp from 3.2L for nearly a decade. There is big difference between a limited brand like Acura. Audi could put 2.5L 340bhp twin turbo into A5 as base engine than move to twin turbo V8 for RS5 but price is an issue. but Acura lacks the technology to implement it.
You can see A5 TDI is evenly matched with 335D despite having much less bhp and torque. No doubt car is very sporty. Just it needs a little stronger engines which is not entirely necessary as the car is just not about straight line performance.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
Diesels aren’t that quick, right?
Well, the European-spec Audi A5 3.0 TDI is as fast off the line as an A5 with the gasoline-fired 3.2-liter V-6, blasting from 0 to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds. And 100 mph comes up in 15.4 seconds, just 0.3 second slower than the naturally aspirated gasoline machine. If the diesel car had been geared to reach 60 mph before our intrepid tester had to snatch third gear, it would have been quicker still, probably besting the BMW 335d’s 0-to-60-mph time of 5.7 seconds.
The Quattro all-wheel-drive system in the A5 is good for swift launches, of course, but the car only has 240 hp on tap versus 265 for the Bimmer, and 369 lb-ft of torque against 425
Diesel Economy in a Delicious Package
When it came to gas mileage, the Audi lived up to the advance publicity. We got 32 mpg out of the A5, 3 mpg better than the 335d. That’s also 12 mpg up on the A5 3.2 we tested, a pretty remarkable result.
Diesels aren’t that quick, right?
Well, the European-spec Audi A5 3.0 TDI is as fast off the line as an A5 with the gasoline-fired 3.2-liter V-6, blasting from 0 to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds. And 100 mph comes up in 15.4 seconds, just 0.3 second slower than the naturally aspirated gasoline machine. If the diesel car had been geared to reach 60 mph before our intrepid tester had to snatch third gear, it would have been quicker still, probably besting the BMW 335d’s 0-to-60-mph time of 5.7 seconds.
The Quattro all-wheel-drive system in the A5 is good for swift launches, of course, but the car only has 240 hp on tap versus 265 for the Bimmer, and 369 lb-ft of torque against 425
Diesel Economy in a Delicious Package
When it came to gas mileage, the Audi lived up to the advance publicity. We got 32 mpg out of the A5, 3 mpg better than the 335d. That’s also 12 mpg up on the A5 3.2 we tested, a pretty remarkable result.
04-19-2009, 10:00 AM
#264
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^^^
Your arguments are stating to make my head spin. You randomly choose categories to create a comparison between the A5, 335 and G37, and then compare the A5 to a 530xi (discontinued model) and TL in other categories that will make it look more favorable. Here's a few simple facts:
1) The A5 costs nearly as much as a 335 coupe, yet is outperformed by the 335 and G37. Per Road and Track, the G37s posted a slalom run of 69.1 mph, the 335i had a run of 68.7 mph, and the A5 had 67.1 mph. The discrepancy in straight line performance is even more significant.
2) The A5 is the least powerful in its price range by far.
3) The A5 performs similarly to the AWD TL, which is nearly $10k less expensive when similarly equipped. Road and Track reports a slalom time for the TL that is 0.3 mph faster than that of the A5. The A5 in this test had the advantage of being equipped with a manual.
Moving from a 5 speed transmission to a 6 speed will not help the TL, but adding that 7th gear will make all the difference? Really?
Your arguments are stating to make my head spin. You randomly choose categories to create a comparison between the A5, 335 and G37, and then compare the A5 to a 530xi (discontinued model) and TL in other categories that will make it look more favorable. Here's a few simple facts:
1) The A5 costs nearly as much as a 335 coupe, yet is outperformed by the 335 and G37. Per Road and Track, the G37s posted a slalom run of 69.1 mph, the 335i had a run of 68.7 mph, and the A5 had 67.1 mph. The discrepancy in straight line performance is even more significant.
2) The A5 is the least powerful in its price range by far.
3) The A5 performs similarly to the AWD TL, which is nearly $10k less expensive when similarly equipped. Road and Track reports a slalom time for the TL that is 0.3 mph faster than that of the A5. The A5 in this test had the advantage of being equipped with a manual.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
6speed will help TL a little bit but not to the extent that modern FSI engine would. TL has to go to 7speed.
Last edited by JD23; 04-19-2009 at 10:05 AM.
04-19-2009, 10:45 AM
#265
^^^
Your arguments are stating to make my head spin. You randomly choose categories to create a comparison between the A5, 335 and G37, and then compare the A5 to a 530xi (discontinued model) and TL in other categories that will make it look more favorable. Here's a few simple facts:
1) The A5 costs nearly as much as a 335 coupe, yet is outperformed by the 335 and G37. Per Road and Track, the G37s posted a slalom run of 69.1 mph, the 335i had a run of 68.7 mph, and the A5 had 67.1 mph. The discrepancy in straight line performance is even more significant.
Your arguments are stating to make my head spin. You randomly choose categories to create a comparison between the A5, 335 and G37, and then compare the A5 to a 530xi (discontinued model) and TL in other categories that will make it look more favorable. Here's a few simple facts:
1) The A5 costs nearly as much as a 335 coupe, yet is outperformed by the 335 and G37. Per Road and Track, the G37s posted a slalom run of 69.1 mph, the 335i had a run of 68.7 mph, and the A5 had 67.1 mph. The discrepancy in straight line performance is even more significant.
2) The A5 is the least powerful in its price range by far.
3) The A5 performs similarly to the AWD TL, which is nearly $10k less
expensive when similarly equipped. Road and Track reports a slalom time for the TL that is 0.3 mph faster than that of the A5. The A5 in this test had the advantage of being equipped with a manual.
expensive when similarly equipped. Road and Track reports a slalom time for the TL that is 0.3 mph faster than that of the A5. The A5 in this test had the advantage of being equipped with a manual.
Moving from a 5 speed transmission to a 6 speed will not help the TL, but adding that 7th gear will make all the difference? Really?
04-19-2009, 01:37 PM
#266
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Why is it a surprise to you that the 335xi is faster than 535xi? The 335xi has the top of the line engine in the 3 series range (not including the M3), while the same engine in the 535xi is the base engine for the 5 series. There's the 550i on top of that. Why would anyone pay that much more for a 5 series over a 3 series? You gotta ask 5 series owners. For me, I won't buy such a car, for one, I'm only a student and I can't afford a $50k+ car (hence, I drive a 7-year old TL).
I agree with you that the A5 has style and it's very beautiful, outside and inside. I have seen a few ones on the road, and it's really elegant, especially in white.
The VQ engine series is over 10 years old (more like 15+ I believe).
You are comparing a coupe, the A5, to sedans, TL/GS/RL.
IMO, the TL is in an unique category too because it's as big inside and out compared to 5 series/E class, etc. But it's priced at the 3 series level. But what do consumers really see?
The improvement in performance in going from 5 gears to 6 gears is greater than going from 6 gears to 7 gears - diminishing marginal return. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this, but a 6MT TL is much quicker than a 5AT TL. For comparison, a 3g 6MT TL is a 14 to 14.3s@99mph car in the 1/4 mile, while a 3g 5AT TL is a 14.8-15s@ 96mph car.
I have no clue what you were trying to say here, "There is big difference between a limited brand like Acura. Audi could put 2.5L 340bhp twin turbo into A5 as base engine than move to twin turbo V8 for RS5 but price is an issue."
I also read that A5 TDI article on C&D. Here are some specs:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 96 mph
Here are the specs for the 335d:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...335d_road_test
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 100 mph
Pay attention to the 0-100mph time and 1/4 mile trap speed. 14.2s vs 15.4s, and 96mph vs 100mph. Those are some pretty big difference. How could you say the "A5 TDI is evenly matched with 335D despite having much less bhp and torque"? Remember what you said before with the VW Passat CC vs TL SH-AWD? Here is what you said before,
"Reasonable conclusion can be made that CC is faster despite 25bhp less with less torque."
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=4
I responded and posted the performance numbers for each car.
"C&D, that's a draw, agree.
For the Passat CC:
Edmunds: 0-60: 6.3s (6.0 with 1ft rollout) 1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 98.2
Motorweek: 0-60: 6.1s 1/4 mile: 14.6 seconds @ 98 mph
Motortrend: 0-60: 6.6s 1/4 mile: 14.9 sec @ 95.9 mph (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ior_specs.html)
For the TL:
Motorweek: 0-60: 5.5s (est)
Road and Track: 0-60: 6.3s 1/4 mile:14.8@96.7mph (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7232)
HondaTuning: 0-60: 5.5s (http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/n...awd/index.html)
TOV: 0-60: 5.9s 1/4 mile: 14.3@97 -98mph
I see that you also like to post dynolicious time, well, I will post one for the TL too.
0-60: 5.54s (from Wavehogger on this forum, you can find more info on this in the 4g forum, he ran many times and he has been consistently getting 5.5 - 5.9s)"
In other words, some sources find the Passat to be ever so slightly faster than the TL, while some sources find the TL to be ever so slightly faster than the Passat. Yet you said the Passat will win every time. In this 335d vs A5 TDI case, the 335d clearly has an advantage, yet you say both are even matched...I'm confused.
VW went with 7-speed DSG because they think the performance and fuel efficiency will improve. The improvement might not be as big as saying, going from 6 to 7-speed, but there's still some gain that they think is worthwhile. In the 6-speed DSG, they purposely geared the the first few gears and the final gear ratios (there are two final gear ratios, one for 1-4 gears, one for 5 and 6 gears) to be more aggressive. Here are some specs:
GEAR RATIOS:
Manual DSG
1 3.36 3.46
2 2.09 2.15
3 1.47 1.46
4 1.10 1.08
5 1.11 1.09
6 0.93 0.92
R 3.99 3.99
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 1-4)
3.94 4.06
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 5 & 6)
3.09 3.14
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22
Why did they do that? One speculation is that, they want to make the DSG look better than what it really is. By having more aggressive ratios, obviously the acceleration will improve. This gain, plus the real benefit of the DSG, means that the DSG equipped model is quite a bit faster, as shown in real world 0-6mph test and 1/4 mile test. Of course there's a slight drawback to more aggressive gear ratios - fuel economy:
FUEL ECONOMY (EPA Combined):
Man/Auto
City mpg 23/25
Highway mpg 32/31
I believe in later years VW revised the ECU for the DSG so that it can do better in the EPA test. However, may be VW is still not happy and so they have the 7-speed DSG. Of course, this is simply what I think is going on, it's definitely not a fact.
I agree with you that the A5 has style and it's very beautiful, outside and inside. I have seen a few ones on the road, and it's really elegant, especially in white.
The VQ engine series is over 10 years old (more like 15+ I believe).
You are comparing a coupe, the A5, to sedans, TL/GS/RL.
IMO, the TL is in an unique category too because it's as big inside and out compared to 5 series/E class, etc. But it's priced at the 3 series level. But what do consumers really see?
The improvement in performance in going from 5 gears to 6 gears is greater than going from 6 gears to 7 gears - diminishing marginal return. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this, but a 6MT TL is much quicker than a 5AT TL. For comparison, a 3g 6MT TL is a 14 to 14.3s@99mph car in the 1/4 mile, while a 3g 5AT TL is a 14.8-15s@ 96mph car.
I have no clue what you were trying to say here, "There is big difference between a limited brand like Acura. Audi could put 2.5L 340bhp twin turbo into A5 as base engine than move to twin turbo V8 for RS5 but price is an issue."
I also read that A5 TDI article on C&D. Here are some specs:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 96 mph
Here are the specs for the 335d:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...335d_road_test
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 100 mph
Pay attention to the 0-100mph time and 1/4 mile trap speed. 14.2s vs 15.4s, and 96mph vs 100mph. Those are some pretty big difference. How could you say the "A5 TDI is evenly matched with 335D despite having much less bhp and torque"? Remember what you said before with the VW Passat CC vs TL SH-AWD? Here is what you said before,
"Reasonable conclusion can be made that CC is faster despite 25bhp less with less torque."
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=4
I responded and posted the performance numbers for each car.
"C&D, that's a draw, agree.
For the Passat CC:
Edmunds: 0-60: 6.3s (6.0 with 1ft rollout) 1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 98.2
Motorweek: 0-60: 6.1s 1/4 mile: 14.6 seconds @ 98 mph
Motortrend: 0-60: 6.6s 1/4 mile: 14.9 sec @ 95.9 mph (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ior_specs.html)
For the TL:
Motorweek: 0-60: 5.5s (est)
Road and Track: 0-60: 6.3s 1/4 mile:14.8@96.7mph (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7232)
HondaTuning: 0-60: 5.5s (http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/n...awd/index.html)
TOV: 0-60: 5.9s 1/4 mile: 14.3@97 -98mph
I see that you also like to post dynolicious time, well, I will post one for the TL too.
0-60: 5.54s (from Wavehogger on this forum, you can find more info on this in the 4g forum, he ran many times and he has been consistently getting 5.5 - 5.9s)"
In other words, some sources find the Passat to be ever so slightly faster than the TL, while some sources find the TL to be ever so slightly faster than the Passat. Yet you said the Passat will win every time. In this 335d vs A5 TDI case, the 335d clearly has an advantage, yet you say both are even matched...I'm confused.
VW went with 7-speed DSG because they think the performance and fuel efficiency will improve. The improvement might not be as big as saying, going from 6 to 7-speed, but there's still some gain that they think is worthwhile. In the 6-speed DSG, they purposely geared the the first few gears and the final gear ratios (there are two final gear ratios, one for 1-4 gears, one for 5 and 6 gears) to be more aggressive. Here are some specs:
GEAR RATIOS:
Manual DSG
1 3.36 3.46
2 2.09 2.15
3 1.47 1.46
4 1.10 1.08
5 1.11 1.09
6 0.93 0.92
R 3.99 3.99
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 1-4)
3.94 4.06
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 5 & 6)
3.09 3.14
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22
Why did they do that? One speculation is that, they want to make the DSG look better than what it really is. By having more aggressive ratios, obviously the acceleration will improve. This gain, plus the real benefit of the DSG, means that the DSG equipped model is quite a bit faster, as shown in real world 0-6mph test and 1/4 mile test. Of course there's a slight drawback to more aggressive gear ratios - fuel economy:
FUEL ECONOMY (EPA Combined):
Man/Auto
City mpg 23/25
Highway mpg 32/31
I believe in later years VW revised the ECU for the DSG so that it can do better in the EPA test. However, may be VW is still not happy and so they have the 7-speed DSG. Of course, this is simply what I think is going on, it's definitely not a fact.
04-19-2009, 06:05 PM
#267
2G TLX-S
Don't be surprised by Audi engines sucking oil. Oil burning is nothing unusual for Audi's. Even the factory bulletin says it's normal.
04-20-2009, 01:13 AM
#268
Why is it a surprise to you that the 335xi is faster than 535xi? The 335xi has the top of the line engine in the 3 series range (not including the M3), while the same engine in the 535xi is the base engine for the 5 series. There's the 550i on top of that. Why would anyone pay that much more for a 5 series over a 3 series? You gotta ask 5 series owners. For me, I won't buy such a car, for one, I'm only a student and I can't afford a $50k+ car (hence, I drive a 7-year old TL).
I agree with you that the A5 has style and it's very beautiful, outside and inside. I have seen a few ones on the road, and it's really elegant, especially in white.
The VQ engine series is over 10 years old (more like 15+ I believe).
I agree with you that the A5 has style and it's very beautiful, outside and inside. I have seen a few ones on the road, and it's really elegant, especially in white.
The VQ engine series is over 10 years old (more like 15+ I believe).
You are comparing a coupe, the A5, to sedans, TL/GS/RL.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-fu...x?RT=2733#Road
Ride & handling
The A5 and S5 are more grand tourers rather than out-and-out sports coupes, although with a far higher level of competence than the current A4.
Refinement
By any standards, these are refined cars. The V6 diesel sounds more like a V6 petrol, while the S5's V8 has a cultured bark that's to be enjoyed rather than endured. Wind noise is apparent only at the motorway limit, and road noise is rarely an issue.
Ride & handling
The A5 and S5 are more grand tourers rather than out-and-out sports coupes, although with a far higher level of competence than the current A4.
Refinement
By any standards, these are refined cars. The V6 diesel sounds more like a V6 petrol, while the S5's V8 has a cultured bark that's to be enjoyed rather than endured. Wind noise is apparent only at the motorway limit, and road noise is rarely an issue.
IMO, the TL is in an unique category too because it's as big inside and out compared to 5 series/E class, etc. But it's priced at the 3 series level. But what do consumers really see?
The improvement in performance in going from 5 gears to 6 gears is greater than going from 6 gears to 7 gears - diminishing marginal return. I'm not sure if you are familiar with this, but a 6MT TL is much quicker than a 5AT TL. For comparison, a 3g 6MT TL is a 14 to 14.3s@99mph car in the 1/4 mile, while a 3g 5AT TL is a 14.8-15s@ 96mph car.
I have no clue what you were trying to say here, "There is big difference between a limited brand like Acura. Audi could put 2.5L 340bhp twin turbo into A5 as base engine than move to twin turbo V8 for RS5 but price is an issue."
I also read that A5 TDI article on C&D. Here are some specs:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 96 mph
Here are the specs for the 335d:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...335d_road_test
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 100 mph
Pay attention to the 0-100mph time and 1/4 mile trap speed. 14.2s vs 15.4s, and 96mph vs 100mph. Those are some pretty big difference. How could you say the "A5 TDI is evenly matched with 335D despite having much less bhp and torque"? Remember what you said before with the VW Passat CC vs TL SH-AWD? Here is what you said before,
I also read that A5 TDI article on C&D. Here are some specs:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 96 mph
Here are the specs for the 335d:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...335d_road_test
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 100 mph
Pay attention to the 0-100mph time and 1/4 mile trap speed. 14.2s vs 15.4s, and 96mph vs 100mph. Those are some pretty big difference. How could you say the "A5 TDI is evenly matched with 335D despite having much less bhp and torque"? Remember what you said before with the VW Passat CC vs TL SH-AWD? Here is what you said before,
"Reasonable conclusion can be made that CC is faster despite 25bhp less with less torque."
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=4
I responded and posted the performance numbers for each car.
"C&D, that's a draw, agree.
For the Passat CC:
Edmunds: 0-60: 6.3s (6.0 with 1ft rollout) 1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 98.2
Motorweek: 0-60: 6.1s 1/4 mile: 14.6 seconds @ 98 mph
Motortrend: 0-60: 6.6s 1/4 mile: 14.9 sec @ 95.9 mph (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ior_specs.html)
For the TL:
Motorweek: 0-60: 5.5s (est)
Road and Track: 0-60: 6.3s 1/4 mile:14.8@96.7mph (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7232)
HondaTuning: 0-60: 5.5s (http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/n...awd/index.html)
TOV: 0-60: 5.9s 1/4 mile: 14.3@97 -98mph
I see that you also like to post dynolicious time, well, I will post one for the TL too.
0-60: 5.54s (from Wavehogger on this forum, you can find more info on this in the 4g forum, he ran many times and he has been consistently getting 5.5 - 5.9s)"
In other words, some sources find the Passat to be ever so slightly faster than the TL, while some sources find the TL to be ever so slightly faster than the Passat. Yet you said the Passat will win every time. In this 335d vs A5 TDI case, the 335d clearly has an advantage, yet you say both are even matched...I'm confused.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=152370&page=4
I responded and posted the performance numbers for each car.
"C&D, that's a draw, agree.
For the Passat CC:
Edmunds: 0-60: 6.3s (6.0 with 1ft rollout) 1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 98.2
Motorweek: 0-60: 6.1s 1/4 mile: 14.6 seconds @ 98 mph
Motortrend: 0-60: 6.6s 1/4 mile: 14.9 sec @ 95.9 mph (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ior_specs.html)
For the TL:
Motorweek: 0-60: 5.5s (est)
Road and Track: 0-60: 6.3s 1/4 mile:14.8@96.7mph (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7232)
HondaTuning: 0-60: 5.5s (http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/n...awd/index.html)
TOV: 0-60: 5.9s 1/4 mile: 14.3@97 -98mph
I see that you also like to post dynolicious time, well, I will post one for the TL too.
0-60: 5.54s (from Wavehogger on this forum, you can find more info on this in the 4g forum, he ran many times and he has been consistently getting 5.5 - 5.9s)"
In other words, some sources find the Passat to be ever so slightly faster than the TL, while some sources find the TL to be ever so slightly faster than the Passat. Yet you said the Passat will win every time. In this 335d vs A5 TDI case, the 335d clearly has an advantage, yet you say both are even matched...I'm confused.
VW went with 7-speed DSG because they think the performance and fuel efficiency will improve. The improvement might not be as big as saying, going from 6 to 7-speed, but there's still some gain that they think is worthwhile. In the 6-speed DSG, they purposely geared the the first few gears and the final gear ratios (there are two final gear ratios, one for 1-4 gears, one for 5 and 6 gears) to be more aggressive. Here are some specs:
GEAR RATIOS:
Manual DSG
1 3.36 3.46
2 2.09 2.15
3 1.47 1.46
4 1.10 1.08
5 1.11 1.09
6 0.93 0.92
R 3.99 3.99
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 1-4)
3.94 4.06
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 5 & 6)
3.09 3.14
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22
Why did they do that? One speculation is that, they want to make the DSG look better than what it really is. By having more aggressive ratios, obviously the acceleration will improve. This gain, plus the real benefit of the DSG, means that the DSG equipped model is quite a bit faster, as shown in real world 0-6mph test and 1/4 mile test. Of course there's a slight drawback to more aggressive gear ratios - fuel economy:
FUEL ECONOMY (EPA Combined):
Man/Auto
City mpg 23/25
Highway mpg 32/31
I believe in later years VW revised the ECU for the DSG so that it can do better in the EPA test. However, may be VW is still not happy and so they have the 7-speed DSG. Of course, this is simply what I think is going on, it's definitely not a fact.
GEAR RATIOS:
Manual DSG
1 3.36 3.46
2 2.09 2.15
3 1.47 1.46
4 1.10 1.08
5 1.11 1.09
6 0.93 0.92
R 3.99 3.99
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 1-4)
3.94 4.06
Final Gear Ratio (Gears 5 & 6)
3.09 3.14
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22
Why did they do that? One speculation is that, they want to make the DSG look better than what it really is. By having more aggressive ratios, obviously the acceleration will improve. This gain, plus the real benefit of the DSG, means that the DSG equipped model is quite a bit faster, as shown in real world 0-6mph test and 1/4 mile test. Of course there's a slight drawback to more aggressive gear ratios - fuel economy:
FUEL ECONOMY (EPA Combined):
Man/Auto
City mpg 23/25
Highway mpg 32/31
I believe in later years VW revised the ECU for the DSG so that it can do better in the EPA test. However, may be VW is still not happy and so they have the 7-speed DSG. Of course, this is simply what I think is going on, it's definitely not a fact.
04-20-2009, 01:41 AM
#269
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
The GR series is fairly new and I believe it came out in around 2006, that's about 3 years.
Again, the MEP of the J37 is 11.9 bar, that's more than 11.4 (or was it 11.3 bar) from the G37. The 3.2L FSI engine also has 11.4 bar. However, for a direct injection engine, that's kind of low. For instance, the GR engine in the IS350 has a MEP of 12.23 bar. Even the CTS DI has 11.8 bar (which is still lower than the TL). I'm not sure if you know what MEP is, if not, go and have a look. It's one of the most important parameters when you talk about how optimized an engine is. And the J series is pretty much a 13 year-old design. So you are right, it's outdated, but it still has some respectable numbers.
Yes, a split second is quite a bit, if you are familiar with 1/4 mile races. The difference between a 5AT TL and 6MT TL is much greater than the difference between a Passat CC 3.6 and a TL SH-AWD, assuming the TL starts in 2nd gear.
Yes, 90mph is barely legal, but why did you say this "VW CC 4MOTION with just 280bhp from 3.6L will beat any TL -SHAWD with 305bhp in any road test all the way up to 130mph." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...152370&page=3?
Isn't 130mph even more "illegal" than 90mph? In reputable magazines, I find that the Passat CC times are pretty much identical to the TL SH-AWD's times - Edmunds, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road and Track, all of these seem reputable to me.
You meant to say, because most transmission suppliers are upgrading to 7 or 8-speed gearboxes, that's why most car companies are also moving away from 6AT. Remember, Honda is one of the few companies that still makes its own auto tranny. Why? I don't know.
Again, the MEP of the J37 is 11.9 bar, that's more than 11.4 (or was it 11.3 bar) from the G37. The 3.2L FSI engine also has 11.4 bar. However, for a direct injection engine, that's kind of low. For instance, the GR engine in the IS350 has a MEP of 12.23 bar. Even the CTS DI has 11.8 bar (which is still lower than the TL). I'm not sure if you know what MEP is, if not, go and have a look. It's one of the most important parameters when you talk about how optimized an engine is. And the J series is pretty much a 13 year-old design. So you are right, it's outdated, but it still has some respectable numbers.
Yes, a split second is quite a bit, if you are familiar with 1/4 mile races. The difference between a 5AT TL and 6MT TL is much greater than the difference between a Passat CC 3.6 and a TL SH-AWD, assuming the TL starts in 2nd gear.
Yes, 90mph is barely legal, but why did you say this "VW CC 4MOTION with just 280bhp from 3.6L will beat any TL -SHAWD with 305bhp in any road test all the way up to 130mph." from https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...152370&page=3?
Isn't 130mph even more "illegal" than 90mph? In reputable magazines, I find that the Passat CC times are pretty much identical to the TL SH-AWD's times - Edmunds, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road and Track, all of these seem reputable to me.
You meant to say, because most transmission suppliers are upgrading to 7 or 8-speed gearboxes, that's why most car companies are also moving away from 6AT. Remember, Honda is one of the few companies that still makes its own auto tranny. Why? I don't know.
04-20-2009, 06:40 AM
#270
Wow, I just realzied i'd rather read msl's posts over SSFTSX's, on any given day.
04-20-2009, 06:02 PM
#273
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
seriously
04-21-2009, 12:37 PM
#274
Far from stellar is already very good in terms of the German brand. The A4 that my wife once had had so much problems, especially electrical, that we had to get rid of it as soon as the extended warranty was about to run out. Audi reliability has since improved, but still don't expect it to match the Japanese-auto-maker-type reliability, because it will never.
Don't be surprised by Audi engines sucking oil. Oil burning is nothing unusual for Audi's. Even the factory bulletin says it's normal.
Don't be surprised by Audi engines sucking oil. Oil burning is nothing unusual for Audi's. Even the factory bulletin says it's normal.
I always hear how bad VW/Audi reliability and service is but this never seems to slow down sales in the rest of the world. VW/Audi sales have been very good in China/Asia, SA/Brazil and the A4 outsold the 3-series for the first time in Germany this year. If they can break the NA perception that the public here have of VW they will easily become the world leader in sales. The NA public loves Japanese products and not just in Automobiles..
I purchased a 2006 Jetta 2.0T back in the fall of 05 over a TSX. The TSX was a great car but the Jetta had better value, more luxury/convenience features and is a blast to drive everyday. The only thing holding me back was this reliability/service perception of VW on forums such as Acurazine. Well this last weekend after almost 4 years of ownership I had my first issue that left me stranded (clutch slave cylinder failed). I thought, well here the problems start with service as everyone says VW is horrible.
Within 2hours via VW 24 Roadside assistance (which is included in the warranty) my car was towed to the dealer, (myself and girlfriend where given a ride to the dealer also), and VW was renting us a car free of charge until they finally found us a free service loaner.
My friend who owns a Lexus was really impressed with service for "Just a Jetta" and my co-worker who owns a 3G TL was pissed as he never gets a loaner or rental and had to beg for a ride from the Acura dealer once when it got towed in on a weekend.
What im trying to say is that VW (at least VW Canada) is really trying to improve its image and although this is my first VW product I am extremely impressed with the reliability and service compared to the other new GM, Honda and Toyota products i have owned. If this is an example of how bad VW reliability and service is then I cant imagine what Audi service is like and they will have a very good chance of owning my business in the fall when my lease comes due............Although I will be probably be holding out to drive the 4G 6MT as i have high expectations for that car.
PS. Not sure about the 2.0T burning lots of oil. Mine uses maybe a litre of oil between changes but i do drive it fairly hard at times. The engine has never failed on me and the 2.0T is know as one of the top engines in the world in its category. It doesn't surprise me though that a turbo car uses a little more oil than a NA engine as this is typically the norm.
Last edited by cp3117; 04-21-2009 at 12:40 PM.
04-21-2009, 03:56 PM
#275
Pro
I don't think Audi is quite there yet, and the main reason is the AWD needed for its performance. If you live in the sun belt, it's a bit of waste.
Design wise, Audi is pretty good, but it's a personal taste. Audi interior looks just average to me.
Reliability is biggest issue with Audi/VW. These vehicles are not suitable to own for 6+ years.
Audi also is getting more expensive. They used to be a good German alternative to BMW due to the competitive price. The performance/dollar ratio is just not quite there.
Design wise, Audi is pretty good, but it's a personal taste. Audi interior looks just average to me.
Reliability is biggest issue with Audi/VW. These vehicles are not suitable to own for 6+ years.
Audi also is getting more expensive. They used to be a good German alternative to BMW due to the competitive price. The performance/dollar ratio is just not quite there.
10-26-2009, 11:01 AM
#277
The sizzle in the Steak
Volkswagen: To Purchase Karmann
Karmann has been on the brink of closing its doors for over a year now, but the German coach builder could be saved by a take over bid by Volkswagen. Karmann – the Osnabrueck, Germany firm best-known for producing the Karmann Ghia – was forced into bankruptcy earlier this year.
According to Reuters, Volkswagen – Europe’s largest automaker – is planning to take over the ailing coach builder. VW reportedly inked a contract with Karmann in July worth $14 million for the development of electric vehicles, but the funds have apparently dried up with Karmann only holding enough cash to continue operations into early November.
However, VW and Karmann are having trouble coming to terms on a purchase price. The three families that own Karmann are seeking at least $97.5 million, with VW only willing to offer something in the low double-digit millions range. “Talks have been going on for some time, but there is no agreement yet on a price,” an inside source told Reuters.
Magna Car Top Systems – a division of Canada’s Magna International – is also said to be interested in part of Karmann’s opperations. However, with Magna currently invested in acquiring Opel from General Motors, it appears as though Karmann’s best – and potentially only offer – will come from VW.
According to Reuters, Volkswagen – Europe’s largest automaker – is planning to take over the ailing coach builder. VW reportedly inked a contract with Karmann in July worth $14 million for the development of electric vehicles, but the funds have apparently dried up with Karmann only holding enough cash to continue operations into early November.
However, VW and Karmann are having trouble coming to terms on a purchase price. The three families that own Karmann are seeking at least $97.5 million, with VW only willing to offer something in the low double-digit millions range. “Talks have been going on for some time, but there is no agreement yet on a price,” an inside source told Reuters.
Magna Car Top Systems – a division of Canada’s Magna International – is also said to be interested in part of Karmann’s opperations. However, with Magna currently invested in acquiring Opel from General Motors, it appears as though Karmann’s best – and potentially only offer – will come from VW.
11-01-2009, 12:37 PM
#279
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W Profit Plunges 86% on Price Cuts, Audi Sales Decline
Originally Posted by Bloomberg
Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG, Europe’s largest carmaker, said third-quarter profit plunged 86 percent as vehicle prices fell and the Audi luxury brand’s deliveries declined in western Europe.
Net income fell to 172 million euros ($255.3 million), or 43 cents a share, from 1.21 billion euros, or 3.02 euros, a year earlier, Wolfsburg, Germany-based Volkswagen said today on its Web site. Sales declined 10 percent to 26 billion euros.
Volkswagen, which is taking over Porsche SE’s automotive operations, reiterated a target of increasing global market share as government incentives and Chinese economic growth help keep sales of cars, sport-utility vehicles and vans about level with 2008 figures. The drop in third-quarter revenue contrasted with an 8.9 percent gain in deliveries.
“The size of the profit slump is dreadful, and shows that Volkswagen is overly focused on quantity, not quality,” said Hans-Peter Wodniok, an analyst at Fairesearch in Frankfurt with a “sell” recommendation on the company’s stock. The “pronounced disparity” between revenue and deliveries shows “unit sales seem to be the sole parameter.”
Volkswagen rose 2.32 euros, or 2.1 percent, to 112.48 euros in Frankfurt trading. That pared the stock’s drop this year to 55 percent, valuing the carmaker at 40.5 billion euros.
Analysts had predicted net income of 173 million euros, according to the average of seven estimates compiled by Bloomberg. Sales were estimated at 26.4 billion euros.
Sticking to Forecast
The carmaker will report another “clear” profit in the fourth quarter Chief Financial Officer Hans Dieter Poetsch said on a conference call, reiterating a forecast that full-year earnings and revenue won’t reach the level of previous years.
“Although we assume that the Volkswagen group will be unable to escape the downward trend in most markets, we believe that it will perform better than the market as a whole and will be able to gain additional market share during the crisis,” Volkswagen said.
Detlef Wittig, Volkswagen’s sales chief, said on Oct. 20 that deliveries would probably match figures for 2008, when the company delivered a record 6.23 million cars and sport-utility vehicles. VW had been predicting a decline for 2009, saying on Aug. 7 that deliveries would fall 5 percent.
Reducing Inventories
Volkswagen generated an “order bank” of 500,000 vehicles from the German government’s subsidies of purchases of new cars in exchange for trade-ins of decade-old models for scrap, Wittig said on the call. The carmaker also scaled back inventories to 780,000 cars last month from 1.2 million units in December 2008, helping raise net liquidity to 13.4 billion euros, he said.
Nine-month Chinese sales surged 37 percent because of economic-stimulus measures while global deliveries at Volkswagen’s namesake brand, including the Golf and Polo compacts, rose 23 percent last month. The Volkswagen brand’s European sales in September rose 15 percent, while Audi’s fell 23 percent.
Audi, whose models include the A4 sedan and TTS Roadster, delivered 7.5 percent fewer vehicles in the first nine months of the year, led by a 13 percent decline in western Europe. The global drop was held back by a 20 percent gain in China.
‘Very Difficult Year’
Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn said on Oct. 8 that 2010 will be “a very difficult year” and predicted global auto markets won’t return to pre-recession levels until 2013 at the earliest. The German market, Europe’s biggest, may shrink to as low as 2.7 million vehicles next year from an estimated 3.7 million units in 2009, according to Joachim Schmidt, head of sales at Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz Cars division.
Volkswagen aims to buy a 49.9 percent stake in Porsche’s carmaking operations for 3.9 billion euros by the end of the year as the first step in a full merger. Volkswagen Chairman Ferdinand Piech said in September that the carmaker may acquire two more brands after finishing the Porsche takeover. He didn’t identify possible targets.
“It wouldn’t be wise to burden the company further” with additional acquisitions, Poetsch said today in response to questions of whether Volkswagen would seek a majority holding in truckmaking affiliate MAN SE in the fourth quarter or acquire Suzuki Motor Corp.
Volkswagen already owns 29.9 percent of Munich-based MAN. VW is considering a partnership with Suzuki to improve its line- up of small cars, a person familiar with the situation said in June. Winterkorn said in mid-September that Volkswagen isn’t interested in buying the Hamamatsu, Japan-based carmaker.
“It’s true to say there are a lot of opportunities around,” Poetsch said today. “We have our hands full with Porsche,” and raising the stake in the Stuttgart, Germany-based sports-car maker beyond 50 percent soon “is not an option.”
To contact the reporter on this story: Andreas Cremer in Berlin at acremer@bloomberg.net.
Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG, Europe’s largest carmaker, said third-quarter profit plunged 86 percent as vehicle prices fell and the Audi luxury brand’s deliveries declined in western Europe.
Net income fell to 172 million euros ($255.3 million), or 43 cents a share, from 1.21 billion euros, or 3.02 euros, a year earlier, Wolfsburg, Germany-based Volkswagen said today on its Web site. Sales declined 10 percent to 26 billion euros.
Volkswagen, which is taking over Porsche SE’s automotive operations, reiterated a target of increasing global market share as government incentives and Chinese economic growth help keep sales of cars, sport-utility vehicles and vans about level with 2008 figures. The drop in third-quarter revenue contrasted with an 8.9 percent gain in deliveries.
“The size of the profit slump is dreadful, and shows that Volkswagen is overly focused on quantity, not quality,” said Hans-Peter Wodniok, an analyst at Fairesearch in Frankfurt with a “sell” recommendation on the company’s stock. The “pronounced disparity” between revenue and deliveries shows “unit sales seem to be the sole parameter.”
Volkswagen rose 2.32 euros, or 2.1 percent, to 112.48 euros in Frankfurt trading. That pared the stock’s drop this year to 55 percent, valuing the carmaker at 40.5 billion euros.
Analysts had predicted net income of 173 million euros, according to the average of seven estimates compiled by Bloomberg. Sales were estimated at 26.4 billion euros.
Sticking to Forecast
The carmaker will report another “clear” profit in the fourth quarter Chief Financial Officer Hans Dieter Poetsch said on a conference call, reiterating a forecast that full-year earnings and revenue won’t reach the level of previous years.
“Although we assume that the Volkswagen group will be unable to escape the downward trend in most markets, we believe that it will perform better than the market as a whole and will be able to gain additional market share during the crisis,” Volkswagen said.
Detlef Wittig, Volkswagen’s sales chief, said on Oct. 20 that deliveries would probably match figures for 2008, when the company delivered a record 6.23 million cars and sport-utility vehicles. VW had been predicting a decline for 2009, saying on Aug. 7 that deliveries would fall 5 percent.
Reducing Inventories
Volkswagen generated an “order bank” of 500,000 vehicles from the German government’s subsidies of purchases of new cars in exchange for trade-ins of decade-old models for scrap, Wittig said on the call. The carmaker also scaled back inventories to 780,000 cars last month from 1.2 million units in December 2008, helping raise net liquidity to 13.4 billion euros, he said.
Nine-month Chinese sales surged 37 percent because of economic-stimulus measures while global deliveries at Volkswagen’s namesake brand, including the Golf and Polo compacts, rose 23 percent last month. The Volkswagen brand’s European sales in September rose 15 percent, while Audi’s fell 23 percent.
Audi, whose models include the A4 sedan and TTS Roadster, delivered 7.5 percent fewer vehicles in the first nine months of the year, led by a 13 percent decline in western Europe. The global drop was held back by a 20 percent gain in China.
‘Very Difficult Year’
Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn said on Oct. 8 that 2010 will be “a very difficult year” and predicted global auto markets won’t return to pre-recession levels until 2013 at the earliest. The German market, Europe’s biggest, may shrink to as low as 2.7 million vehicles next year from an estimated 3.7 million units in 2009, according to Joachim Schmidt, head of sales at Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz Cars division.
Volkswagen aims to buy a 49.9 percent stake in Porsche’s carmaking operations for 3.9 billion euros by the end of the year as the first step in a full merger. Volkswagen Chairman Ferdinand Piech said in September that the carmaker may acquire two more brands after finishing the Porsche takeover. He didn’t identify possible targets.
“It wouldn’t be wise to burden the company further” with additional acquisitions, Poetsch said today in response to questions of whether Volkswagen would seek a majority holding in truckmaking affiliate MAN SE in the fourth quarter or acquire Suzuki Motor Corp.
Volkswagen already owns 29.9 percent of Munich-based MAN. VW is considering a partnership with Suzuki to improve its line- up of small cars, a person familiar with the situation said in June. Winterkorn said in mid-September that Volkswagen isn’t interested in buying the Hamamatsu, Japan-based carmaker.
“It’s true to say there are a lot of opportunities around,” Poetsch said today. “We have our hands full with Porsche,” and raising the stake in the Stuttgart, Germany-based sports-car maker beyond 50 percent soon “is not an option.”
To contact the reporter on this story: Andreas Cremer in Berlin at acremer@bloomberg.net.
11-01-2009, 07:40 PM
#280
Fahrvergnügen'd
I hope that Audi realizes that bigger and more expensive cars are not going to sell at the same pace as their predecessors.
I think Audi needs to get back to between the B5 and B6 size for their B9 A4 and try to cut the price of the car back to G37/TL prices and not follow BMW into the upper $40s for loaded cars in that segment.
I think Audi needs to get back to between the B5 and B6 size for their B9 A4 and try to cut the price of the car back to G37/TL prices and not follow BMW into the upper $40s for loaded cars in that segment.