Volkswagen: Development and Technology News
#441
Race Director
I said the cars will still sell (if they are for sale) - I didn't say at what level. All the vehicle makers are to some level cheating on emissions - VW is the only one that came out and admitted it (so far). VW is the GM of Germany - it is too big to fail - it's not going anywhere.
#442
2G TLX-S
^^^^^
So Germany is gonna rescue VW, just like the US did to GM ?
So Germany is gonna rescue VW, just like the US did to GM ?
#443
I feel the need...
#444
2016 Acura TLX
VW didn't admit it, they got caught cheating. And then lied about the software not being in other cars, and got caught again lol.
It's one thing to hide a grading mistake you found on an exam. And it's another to knowingly cheat and then proceed to prance around the room saying you got the best score in the class.
It's one thing to hide a grading mistake you found on an exam. And it's another to knowingly cheat and then proceed to prance around the room saying you got the best score in the class.
Last edited by honda_nut; 11-11-2015 at 05:33 PM.
#446
Race Director
They admitted it after they got caught - not sure it makes much difference but they did admit to cheating. As I said, the difference at this point is that many other makers know full well that under normal driving conditions their cars also emit more than regs (long list of cars on previous page of this thread), but they have yet to admit it.
#447
Race Director
http://media.vw.com/doc/1662/volkswa...8d26aa29fb.pdf
Despite all the sky is falling news headlines and a stoppage in diesel sales, VW's sales went up .24% in October.
Despite all the sky is falling news headlines and a stoppage in diesel sales, VW's sales went up .24% in October.
#448
Team Owner
I am not surprised. i even suggested my friend to go LEASE a VW right now.
Why? Because they are dirty cheap! say whatever we want, i have no problem getting a VW if the price is right and the price is very right, right now.
Give me 50% off on the ILX or the RLX and i will pick 1 up tomorrow. Everything has a price regardless we like it or not.
Why? Because they are dirty cheap! say whatever we want, i have no problem getting a VW if the price is right and the price is very right, right now.
Give me 50% off on the ILX or the RLX and i will pick 1 up tomorrow. Everything has a price regardless we like it or not.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 11-12-2015 at 01:04 PM.
#449
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
My vote is on the Focus RS too...even the RS3 isn't that fast on a track, and the Golf R is more closer to the S3 in terms of performance...which is obviously slower than a RS3....so ya...FoRS for me..especially given the price!
Not sure man....
I think it's pretty well known (including the regulators) that most cars emit more in the real world. The difference is that, for now, there's no claim from any regulators that other manufacturers are using any cheating device/programming.
They admitted it after they got caught - not sure it makes much difference but they did admit to cheating. As I said, the difference at this point is that many other makers know full well that under normal driving conditions their cars also emit more than regs (long list of cars on previous page of this thread), but they have yet to admit it.
#450
Race Director
So a Volvo diesel engineer that knows that during static testing the V60 passes EU5 regs yet emits 14x those limits during normal driving is not cheating?
#451
Team Owner
If you have a problem. then you have a problem. Stop pointing fingers at XXX. They will get their turn if it is true. Just because someone else is doing it does not make it right for you. You as in VW.
VW should worry about themselves right now as they don;t have the credibility to point finger at anyone at this moment.
VW should worry about themselves right now as they don;t have the credibility to point finger at anyone at this moment.
#452
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
That would depend on whether Volvo is using some sort of special programming code to switch between different modes, namely, emission test mode and normal driving mode.
#453
2G TLX-S
http://media.vw.com/doc/1662/volkswa...8d26aa29fb.pdf
Despite all the sky is falling news headlines and a stoppage in diesel sales, VW's sales went up .24% in October.
Despite all the sky is falling news headlines and a stoppage in diesel sales, VW's sales went up .24% in October.
#454
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Well, maybe Acura should consider doing that.
#455
Race Director
So if VW's ECU "normally" passes EPA test in the shop but emits 40x those levels out driving then it's OK? How the firmware works is not really the main issue - the bigger point is that the emissions are much higher in the real world. This whole thing was brought about by the tree-hugging nazis in CARB who don't really care about emissions but elimination of any ICE equipped vehicles - diesel or otherwise.
#456
AZ Community Team
So if VW's ECU "normally" passes EPA test in the shop but emits 40x those levels out driving then it's OK? How the firmware works is not really the main issue - the bigger point is that the emissions are much higher in the real world. This whole thing was brought about by the tree-hugging nazis in CARB who don't really care about emissions but elimination of any ICE equipped vehicles - diesel or otherwise.
#457
99 TL, 06 E350
#458
Race Director
Have you not noticed that car makers, the EPA and eventually the EU follow the regs that CARB sets? CARB set such ridiculous low emission levels no wonder car makers are cheating. And again, not to reduce emission but to control you and eliminate ICE vehicles. It's been a long time since cars have had any meaningful effect on worldwide emissions (it's in the low single digit %) - yet CARB keeps lowering the emission levels. So to pass those ridiculous emission levels car makers set up their car to pass the test but then modify the ECU to give you reasonable power and mileage during normal driving. If the CARB, EPA and EU left the regs alone from just a few years ago when the limit were already plenty low none of this would have happened.
#459
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
So if VW's ECU "normally" passes EPA test in the shop but emits 40x those levels out driving then it's OK? How the firmware works is not really the main issue - the bigger point is that the emissions are much higher in the real world. This whole thing was brought about by the tree-hugging nazis in CARB who don't really care about emissions but elimination of any ICE equipped vehicles - diesel or otherwise.
Have you not noticed that car makers, the EPA and eventually the EU follow the regs that CARB sets? CARB set such ridiculous low emission levels no wonder car makers are cheating. And again, not to reduce emission but to control you and eliminate ICE vehicles. It's been a long time since cars have had any meaningful effect on worldwide emissions (it's in the low single digit %) - yet CARB keeps lowering the emission levels. So to pass those ridiculous emission levels car makers set up their car to pass the test but then modify the ECU to give you reasonable power and mileage during normal driving. If the CARB, EPA and EU left the regs alone from just a few years ago when the limit were already plenty low none of this would have happened.
The main point of the VW scandal is that, VW specifically added codes to the software to detect whether the car is being tested or not, and if so, adjust a bunch of parameters that would increase/decrease NOx level, fuel economy, and engine power.
It's possible that others are actually doing exactly what VW did, but at this moment, no one other than VW have been caught doing the above.
I wouldn't be surprised if many car makers set up the cars so that they will do very well in emission testing. The key difference is that, right now, there's no proof that those cars would change to different modes when being tested. This is very important.
It's just like those fuel economy test cycles. A manufacturer can set up a vehicle to do very well in those tests, but that doesn't mean the car would change modes on its own when it's being tested.
Think of it this way. Before variable valve timing/cam lift technologies was invented, engines have a limited power band. As such, depending on the application, some engines might make good power in low rpm, while some may run better in high rpm. So going back to fuel economy testing, if the manufacturer knows exactly how the cars are being tested, the engineers can just set up the cars to do well in the test. That's not cheating.
#460
Race Director
So, if a car doesn't switch "ECU modes" but emits exactly the same way the VW does, it's perfectly fine? What difference does it make how a car gets above the emission limits during normal driving? So you can have a Toureg TDI next to V60 Volvo diesel and they both pass the emissions test in the garage and they both emit say 10x during normal driving. But VW should be banned from sale while the Volvo gets a pass?
Last edited by biker; 11-13-2015 at 02:18 PM.
#461
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
So, if a car doesn't switch "ECU modes" but emits exactly the same way the VW does, it's perfectly fine? What difference does it make how a car gets above the emission limits during normal driving? So you can have a Toureg TDI next to V60 Volvo diesel and they both pass the emissions test in the garage and they both emit say 10x during normal driving. But VW should be banned from sale while the Volvo gets a pass?
For VW issue, we are talking about 40 times the limit.
So no, it's not really "exactly" the same way.....I'd imagine if they find out Volvo's diesel cars are also emitting 40 times the limit, then they will take a closer look at their cars as well.
See the difference now?
It's unlikely that the difference will be that big between testing and real world without some sort of cheating device.
It's true that many diesel vehicles emit more emissions in the real world than in lab tests. And it's not really surprising that manufacturers try to set up their cars to do well in these lab conditions. It's one thing to set up vehicles to do well in tests, but totally another matter when a separate mode is used for testing.
As for your concern whether it's okay for cars to emit more than they are in the lab test, probably not. But that's more for the regulators to think about. Perhaps, at this moment, there's no way that they can come up with a testing system that is bulletproof, hence they are setting such strict standards for these tests, so that even if in the real world, the cars emit much more, it still won't be too bad?
#462
2G TLX-S
Acura already does. In some dealerships, FWD RLX sedans are being discounted at $10K below MSRP.
But obviously this is too little, too late.
Even after discounting, a FWD RLX still starts at $45K.
But if the hybrid AWD RLX were to sell at $50K and also in regular production quantities, that's a different story.
But obviously this is too little, too late.
Even after discounting, a FWD RLX still starts at $45K.
But if the hybrid AWD RLX were to sell at $50K and also in regular production quantities, that's a different story.
#463
Race Director
Haha, if it's just 10x more during normal driving, then there's more no cheating device involved man.
For VW issue, we are talking about 40 times the limit.
So no, it's not really "exactly" the same way.....I'd imagine if they find out Volvo's diesel cars are also emitting 40 times the limit, then they will take a closer look at their cars as well.
See the difference now?
For VW issue, we are talking about 40 times the limit.
So no, it's not really "exactly" the same way.....I'd imagine if they find out Volvo's diesel cars are also emitting 40 times the limit, then they will take a closer look at their cars as well.
See the difference now?
[Press release] Vehicle tests show dramatic variation in NOx emissions from modern diesel cars on new EU test cycle, with exceedances up to 15 times the current regulatory limit | International Council on Clean Transportation
“On average, the nitrogen oxides emission level in the new test cycle was more than double the Euro 6 limit value”, says Dr. Peter Mock, Managing Director of ICCT Europe. The highest emission levels in WLTC were found for a Volvo (14.6 times the limit), a Renault (8.8 times the limit) and a Hyundai (6.9 times the limit) vehicle. A BMW model had the lowest emission level (70 percent below the Euro 6 limit).
“The results indicate that the implementation of nitrogen oxides control technologies by a few manufacturers is delivering acceptable results over both cycles. Other manufacturers seem to be focusing on meeting emission limits over the current test cycle while neglecting real-world operating conditions”, says Dr. Vicente Franco, a researcher at the ICCT and co-author of the study.
“The results indicate that the implementation of nitrogen oxides control technologies by a few manufacturers is delivering acceptable results over both cycles. Other manufacturers seem to be focusing on meeting emission limits over the current test cycle while neglecting real-world operating conditions”, says Dr. Vicente Franco, a researcher at the ICCT and co-author of the study.
#464
Race Director
In related news......
Wait, WHAT? VW's Emissions-Cheating Software Might Technically Be Legal in Europe
Wait, WHAT? VW's Emissions-Cheating Software Might Technically Be Legal in Europe
After admitting to using software that only controls diesel emissions when a car senses it's being government tested, Volkswagen is pursuing a pretty bold legal defense. In a letter sent to European regulators this week, a top VW Europe official claims that the automaker's cheating software might not be illegal under current EU pollution testing laws. And as crazy as that sounds, it may not be a far-fetched defense.
That's because, as The New York Times reports, Europe's emissions testing regulations contain a gargantuan loophole that could make Volkswagen's unfolding scandal disappear entirely. And European regulators have known about it for at least four years.
As NYT reports:
The loophole lets carmakers change the performance settings of their engines before a pollution test. "A manufacturer could specify a special setting that is not normally used for everyday driving," British regulators warned, according to minutes of a 2011 meeting in Geneva of officials across the region.
So when Volkswagen's Paul Willis writes that the automaker is still considering "whether the software in question officially constituted a defeat device," he's being brash, but not unreasonable.
Europe's regulations specify that "the settings of the engine and of the vehicle's controls shall be those prescribed by the manufacturer." That's a very broad definition—one that would seem to allow a specific software setting that's only triggered during government emissions testing, as Volkswagen's diesel cheating software has been found to do.
This discovery only further highlights the porous nature of Europe's vehicle emissions laws. The EU's system allows automakers to submit preproduction vehicles for testing, and tweaks that would never be performed by a typical consumer—like removing the rear seats to reduce weight, or sealing up panel gaps with tape—are allowed under the EU's current rules, NYT reports.
But while these finicky changes might add up to marginal improvements in testing, allowing an automaker to specify the engine management software used during emissions testing opens up a whole new level of emissions trickery. And Europe's system, which lacks central oversight, allows automakers to submit to testing in any of the 28 member states, with results being recognized across the EU.
"What we have developed is a phony system of testing where the member states [of the European Union] are in competition with each other for who can make it the most easy for the car manufacturers to pass the test," Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy, a Dutch member of the European Parliament, told NYT.
Now, it's up to the EU to determine whether VW's tricks actually broke the vaguely-worded law. Lucia Caudet, a spokeswoman for the European Commission, told NYT in an email that the governing body has "no formal view" on whether the software in question counts as "a 'defeat device' in the EU legal sense or not."
That's because, as The New York Times reports, Europe's emissions testing regulations contain a gargantuan loophole that could make Volkswagen's unfolding scandal disappear entirely. And European regulators have known about it for at least four years.
As NYT reports:
The loophole lets carmakers change the performance settings of their engines before a pollution test. "A manufacturer could specify a special setting that is not normally used for everyday driving," British regulators warned, according to minutes of a 2011 meeting in Geneva of officials across the region.
So when Volkswagen's Paul Willis writes that the automaker is still considering "whether the software in question officially constituted a defeat device," he's being brash, but not unreasonable.
Europe's regulations specify that "the settings of the engine and of the vehicle's controls shall be those prescribed by the manufacturer." That's a very broad definition—one that would seem to allow a specific software setting that's only triggered during government emissions testing, as Volkswagen's diesel cheating software has been found to do.
This discovery only further highlights the porous nature of Europe's vehicle emissions laws. The EU's system allows automakers to submit preproduction vehicles for testing, and tweaks that would never be performed by a typical consumer—like removing the rear seats to reduce weight, or sealing up panel gaps with tape—are allowed under the EU's current rules, NYT reports.
But while these finicky changes might add up to marginal improvements in testing, allowing an automaker to specify the engine management software used during emissions testing opens up a whole new level of emissions trickery. And Europe's system, which lacks central oversight, allows automakers to submit to testing in any of the 28 member states, with results being recognized across the EU.
"What we have developed is a phony system of testing where the member states [of the European Union] are in competition with each other for who can make it the most easy for the car manufacturers to pass the test," Gerben-Jan Gerbrandy, a Dutch member of the European Parliament, told NYT.
Now, it's up to the EU to determine whether VW's tricks actually broke the vaguely-worded law. Lucia Caudet, a spokeswoman for the European Commission, told NYT in an email that the governing body has "no formal view" on whether the software in question counts as "a 'defeat device' in the EU legal sense or not."
#466
AZ Community Team
Have you not noticed that car makers, the EPA and eventually the EU follow the regs that CARB sets? CARB set such ridiculous low emission levels no wonder car makers are cheating. And again, not to reduce emission but to control you and eliminate ICE vehicles. It's been a long time since cars have had any meaningful effect on worldwide emissions (it's in the low single digit %) - yet CARB keeps lowering the emission levels. So to pass those ridiculous emission levels car makers set up their car to pass the test but then modify the ECU to give you reasonable power and mileage during normal driving. If the CARB, EPA and EU left the regs alone from just a few years ago when the limit were already plenty low none of this would have happened.
#467
I feel the need...
Audi A6 premium starts at $46,200. If price is your only complaint about the RLX, you should probably find a new one.
Acura's problem is that it hasn't clearly delineated itself from being a significant upgrade from Honda and with Honda now acquiring the same shitty ZF transmissions, similar tech and similar LED headlights, there is even less off a reason to "graduate" to an Acura.
Acura markets itself as a value luxury brand and that mindset is stuck with its customer and prospective customer base, therein lies the rub. They are stuck with rational tightwad consumers who can afford more, but don't strongly desire or need the flash of more established marques. I should know, I'm a a case study in "Honda plus"!
Acura's problem is that it hasn't clearly delineated itself from being a significant upgrade from Honda and with Honda now acquiring the same shitty ZF transmissions, similar tech and similar LED headlights, there is even less off a reason to "graduate" to an Acura.
Acura markets itself as a value luxury brand and that mindset is stuck with its customer and prospective customer base, therein lies the rub. They are stuck with rational tightwad consumers who can afford more, but don't strongly desire or need the flash of more established marques. I should know, I'm a a case study in "Honda plus"!
#468
Race Director
CARB sets the standards which the majority of other vehicle manufacturers are able to met, they've even worked jointly with some of the manufacturers over the years on technology to reduce emissions further. CARB has no fault or responsibility in VW's diesel scandal, many other diesel manufacturers (i.e. BMW whose diesel models were also tested with VW in that WV test) were able to met their standards. If you can't met the standards then you shouldn't cheat on emissions in order to sell your cars.
#469
AZ Community Team
If VW would have done like BMW or MB and others they would not be in this mess.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 11-15-2015 at 06:47 AM.
#470
Race Director
There's only suppose to be one engine mapping with various parameter inputs (and no the "test cycle" is not a parameter input) per vehicle so VW was not passing, and yes that is currently written into rules and has been for IIRC a at least a couple decades. VW is not the first to have though of test cycle based ECU firmware, the large diesel engine manufacturers tried in in the 2000's.
Last edited by biker; 11-15-2015 at 09:09 AM.
#471
AZ Community Team
The VW passes the test at any emission station - just the way it does it is in question. Does it matter how the Volvo passes the test but emits 14x during normal driving? The issue is that the test in either the US or EU does not take into account real world driving. The new EU real world test starting next year would have caught this - I assume the EPA will adopt something like that.Then this issue will be forgotten.
#472
99 TL, 06 E350
VW says CO2 cheats affect more petrol engines than previously disclosed
Why don't they just come out and say the whole VW line up is polluting more than they should?
BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen said its manipulations of carbon dioxide emission levels affect more petrol-powered engines at the German carmaker than it had previously disclosed.
VW said on Nov. 3 it had understated the level of CO2 emissions in around 800,000 predominantly diesel-powered vehicles, with some models using a 1.4 liter petrol engine.
A spokesman said on Monday that more petrol engines were implicated by the CO2 violations, adding to a statement the carmaker had released after business hours on Friday.
VW said on Nov. 3 it had understated the level of CO2 emissions in around 800,000 predominantly diesel-powered vehicles, with some models using a 1.4 liter petrol engine.
A spokesman said on Monday that more petrol engines were implicated by the CO2 violations, adding to a statement the carmaker had released after business hours on Friday.
#473
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
I have not seen any definite test on a particular VW model that actually was 40x emissions - like all the sales ads you have to watch for the "up to" wording used. The V60 was tested and found to be 14x.
[Press release] Vehicle tests show dramatic variation in NOx emissions from modern diesel cars on new EU test cycle, with exceedances up to 15 times the current regulatory limit | International Council on Clean Transportation
In that study the VW was at about 2x for the more realistic test in which the Volvo was at 14x. This is for EU equipped cars but the US ECU is probably not that far off.
[Press release] Vehicle tests show dramatic variation in NOx emissions from modern diesel cars on new EU test cycle, with exceedances up to 15 times the current regulatory limit | International Council on Clean Transportation
In that study the VW was at about 2x for the more realistic test in which the Volvo was at 14x. This is for EU equipped cars but the US ECU is probably not that far off.
The point isn't so much about how bad it is in the real world. Rather, it's the fact that VW added some kind of defeat device (some programming codes) into the ECU that is the main issue.
That is NOT to say Volvo emitting 14x the limit is all good. It's just that, regulators haven't been able to prove that Volvo has such defeat device in their cars. If they can prove that, perhaps Volvo would be in trouble too.
#474
Race Director
The EPA didn't prove that VW had a defeat device - VW admitted it after the on road testing revealed the numbers. Common sense would say that it is very unlikely that a car that passes the test but pollutes at 14x limits in real world driving doesn't have something weird going on in the ECU. Volvo will have to do something drastic since the test in which it was at 14x will be in place next year and that car won't be legal in the EU.
#475
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
lol dude, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying...
Let me try again. No, I'm NOT saying emitting 14x the limit in the real world is okay at all. I'd imagine that there's some sort of investigation going on now since there's data suggesting that the Volvo is way over the limit.
For the VW case, there's an article that explains the story in more details. You are right that EPA didn't really prove the VW had a device device, and that VW in the end admitted to having such device. But VW did NOT admit initially. There was a lot of back and forth between different groups before VW finally admitted to having such device. In short, it was at a point where the numbers just don't make sense anymore (40x the limit) and VW simply had no choice but to admit.
Let me try again. No, I'm NOT saying emitting 14x the limit in the real world is okay at all. I'd imagine that there's some sort of investigation going on now since there's data suggesting that the Volvo is way over the limit.
For the VW case, there's an article that explains the story in more details. You are right that EPA didn't really prove the VW had a device device, and that VW in the end admitted to having such device. But VW did NOT admit initially. There was a lot of back and forth between different groups before VW finally admitted to having such device. In short, it was at a point where the numbers just don't make sense anymore (40x the limit) and VW simply had no choice but to admit.
#476
Race Director
VW diesel engine emissions fix for European models
The first proposed fix for one of the VW diesel engines affected by emissions-cheating software has been delivered to transportation authorities in Germany, Automotive News Europe reports.
The automaker delivered details of a solution for the 1.6-liter diesel engine used in some 540,000 VW Group cars in the country, to the Federal Motor Transportation Authority (KBA). The KBA is now in the process of evaluating the fix. VW has not shared specifics of the proposed solution with the media at this point, though the engine is believed to require both a hardware and software fix.
Volkswagen CEO Matthias Mueller suggested that the modifications to this engine will involve the installation of a larger catalytic converter and a switch to a different type of a injection nozzle, at the very minimum.
More importantly, a spokesman for VW told Automotive News Europe that the company has already developed proposed fixes for all of the affected diesel engines except for the 1.2-liter version, a variant not sold in North America. A proposed solution for that engine is expected soon as well.
News of a fix comes at a delicate time for VW, with the automaker having admitted to CO2 emission discrepancies in more than a million cars in recent days. The CO2 figure issue is separate from the diesel issue and is not expected to involve a recall, since it is believed to be a testing calibration issue that pertains to a car's emission classification for regulatory purposes as well as advertising to consumers.
The announcement of a potential fix also confirms the suggestion that different diesel engines implicated in the crisis will require different fixes: The 1.6-liter engine in question will require both software and hardware tweaks, but analysts expect that other diesel engines will merely require software adjustments. In Europe alone, some 8.5 million cars are believed to possess diesel engines containing emissions cheating software.
VW is expected to present proposed fixes for other diesel engines in the coming weeks.
The automaker delivered details of a solution for the 1.6-liter diesel engine used in some 540,000 VW Group cars in the country, to the Federal Motor Transportation Authority (KBA). The KBA is now in the process of evaluating the fix. VW has not shared specifics of the proposed solution with the media at this point, though the engine is believed to require both a hardware and software fix.
Volkswagen CEO Matthias Mueller suggested that the modifications to this engine will involve the installation of a larger catalytic converter and a switch to a different type of a injection nozzle, at the very minimum.
More importantly, a spokesman for VW told Automotive News Europe that the company has already developed proposed fixes for all of the affected diesel engines except for the 1.2-liter version, a variant not sold in North America. A proposed solution for that engine is expected soon as well.
News of a fix comes at a delicate time for VW, with the automaker having admitted to CO2 emission discrepancies in more than a million cars in recent days. The CO2 figure issue is separate from the diesel issue and is not expected to involve a recall, since it is believed to be a testing calibration issue that pertains to a car's emission classification for regulatory purposes as well as advertising to consumers.
The announcement of a potential fix also confirms the suggestion that different diesel engines implicated in the crisis will require different fixes: The 1.6-liter engine in question will require both software and hardware tweaks, but analysts expect that other diesel engines will merely require software adjustments. In Europe alone, some 8.5 million cars are believed to possess diesel engines containing emissions cheating software.
VW is expected to present proposed fixes for other diesel engines in the coming weeks.
#478
Race Director
On the US front....
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ix-coming-soon
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ix-coming-soon
Volkswagen Group of America may soon disclose how it intends to fix 482,000 2.0-liter diesel vehicles with illegal emissions software, the company’s chief said today.
At a Los Angeles auto show press conference, VWoA CEO Michael Horn addressed the elephant in the room, saying: “I am personally hopeful that we will be able to announce something soon about the remedies that we have identified and which we are discussing with the agencies in the upcoming days.”
The automaker is approaching a Friday deadline to submit draft plans for the fixes to the California Air Resources Board. CARB and the EPA must approve VW’s repair plans before a recall can begin.
Horn said VW’s “goodwill” program introduced on Nov. 9 will help the company maximize the number of vehicles that are repaired once the fix is available. VW is collecting owner addresses when customers sign up for the program, Horn said, which will help the company target recall communications when updates are ready.
Horn said about 120,000 customers have signed up for the goodwill program so far, which offers eligible 2.0-liter TDI owners a $500 prepaid Visa card, $500 in dealership credit and three years of 24-hour roadside assistance.
“Let me be very clear to you: We will take care of our customers, but this will take time, and this responsibility is one that I don’t take lightly,” Horn said.
Horn, noting his remarks come two months to the day since the EPA revealed VW’s emissions violations, again apologized and acknowledged the “anger” and “frustration” felt by VW’s diesel owners. He also said he has been “honored” with many emails from customers expressing support for Volkswagen.
“All these reactions are fully understandable since also everybody at Volkswagen of America feels exactly those same emotions,” Horn said.
But until a fix is ready, “we can’t stop apologizing,” Horn said. “We completely understand that apologies aren’t enough.”
VW has said three generations of 2.0-liter diesel engines containing the illegal software will each require different repairs. About 325,000 of the vehicles using the first generation of VW’s 2.0-liter diesel will require software and hardware changes, Horn told a panel of U.S. lawmakers on Oct. 8. Those changes could be extensive.
About 67,000 newer vehicles with third-generation diesels meet emissions standards and can be made compliant with a software update alone, Horn told lawmakers.
The roughly 90,000 2012-14 Passats using the second-generation 2.0-liter diesel will need a software update, but it’s unclear if they will need hardware changes also.
At a Los Angeles auto show press conference, VWoA CEO Michael Horn addressed the elephant in the room, saying: “I am personally hopeful that we will be able to announce something soon about the remedies that we have identified and which we are discussing with the agencies in the upcoming days.”
The automaker is approaching a Friday deadline to submit draft plans for the fixes to the California Air Resources Board. CARB and the EPA must approve VW’s repair plans before a recall can begin.
Horn said VW’s “goodwill” program introduced on Nov. 9 will help the company maximize the number of vehicles that are repaired once the fix is available. VW is collecting owner addresses when customers sign up for the program, Horn said, which will help the company target recall communications when updates are ready.
Horn said about 120,000 customers have signed up for the goodwill program so far, which offers eligible 2.0-liter TDI owners a $500 prepaid Visa card, $500 in dealership credit and three years of 24-hour roadside assistance.
“Let me be very clear to you: We will take care of our customers, but this will take time, and this responsibility is one that I don’t take lightly,” Horn said.
Horn, noting his remarks come two months to the day since the EPA revealed VW’s emissions violations, again apologized and acknowledged the “anger” and “frustration” felt by VW’s diesel owners. He also said he has been “honored” with many emails from customers expressing support for Volkswagen.
“All these reactions are fully understandable since also everybody at Volkswagen of America feels exactly those same emotions,” Horn said.
But until a fix is ready, “we can’t stop apologizing,” Horn said. “We completely understand that apologies aren’t enough.”
VW has said three generations of 2.0-liter diesel engines containing the illegal software will each require different repairs. About 325,000 of the vehicles using the first generation of VW’s 2.0-liter diesel will require software and hardware changes, Horn told a panel of U.S. lawmakers on Oct. 8. Those changes could be extensive.
About 67,000 newer vehicles with third-generation diesels meet emissions standards and can be made compliant with a software update alone, Horn told lawmakers.
The roughly 90,000 2012-14 Passats using the second-generation 2.0-liter diesel will need a software update, but it’s unclear if they will need hardware changes also.
#479
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
on
518 Posts
Yea, it's always about the trade off between cost, performance, emission levels, and efficiency.
Also the new software, the key question becomes if that will deteriorate performance and fuel economy, even with the hardware changes.
Also the new software, the key question becomes if that will deteriorate performance and fuel economy, even with the hardware changes.
#480
Race Director