Toyota: 86 News
04-20-2011, 03:43 PM
#323
Oderint dum metuant.
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Word has been for a while that it's going to be a Scion.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/ft-...6-in-2012.html
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/ft-...6-in-2012.html
Last edited by chill_dog; 04-20-2011 at 03:46 PM.
04-20-2011, 04:31 PM
#325
The sizzle in the Steak
04-20-2011, 05:51 PM
#327
All of a sudden you guys don't like it anymore just because it's a Scion? 
Seems like they toned some parts of the design down while they altered the concept to appeal to the hellaflush crowd a bit more. I like the toned down aggressiveness. Good job on taking out those tacky LEDs (I don't dislike LEDs, they're just overdone and not too easy to pull off)
Seems like they toned some parts of the design down while they altered the concept to appeal to the hellaflush crowd a bit more. I like the toned down aggressiveness. Good job on taking out those tacky LEDs (I don't dislike LEDs, they're just overdone and not too easy to pull off)
04-20-2011, 05:54 PM
#328
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Have to agree with the Thermon. Not that I was all that interested when it was a Toyoya, but it now being a Scion seems to have completly taken it off my radar. But isn't that what Toyota set out to do with Scion anyway? Not cater to 30 and 40 somethings?
04-20-2011, 06:27 PM
#329
I don't see what the big deal is. I guess I might change my mind when I'm in my 30s or 40s but then again I don't see the problem with me driving something like a Lexus GS or LS. I've seen a few gray-haired folks drive Scions (mostly older xBs) and plenty of 30-somethings drive them. I guess at first it is sort of strange but in reality is there anything that fundamentally different from a Civic vs. a tC, or a Fit vs. a xB/xD?
I just think it's silly that you guys lost so much interest in it, not on the premise of different styling or a change in price, but rather because it is now a Scion and not a Toyota. I have met and seen 50-something or older S2000 and Miata owners, and I see them as more of a younger person's car... but it didn't necessarily strike me as strange.
Though it's not my call I don't get why this was split into a separate thread either
this is the same car. It's not even a badge engineering job, there is no Scion version, this IS the planned FT-86 concept. This is like making a new thread for the VW Rabbit after they changed the name to "Golf"
I just think it's silly that you guys lost so much interest in it, not on the premise of different styling or a change in price, but rather because it is now a Scion and not a Toyota. I have met and seen 50-something or older S2000 and Miata owners, and I see them as more of a younger person's car... but it didn't necessarily strike me as strange.
Though it's not my call I don't get why this was split into a separate thread either
this is the same car. It's not even a badge engineering job, there is no Scion version, this IS the planned FT-86 concept. This is like making a new thread for the VW Rabbit after they changed the name to "Golf"
04-20-2011, 06:35 PM
#330
The Third Ball
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I for one always figured it should be a scion...its the car the marque was created for in the first.
That said. the design of the thing has never really done anything for me.
That said. the design of the thing has never really done anything for me.
04-20-2011, 06:41 PM
#331
Drifting
I'm kinda torn. It's not like I disrespect scion (I mean, I do own one), I just think changing it to a scion kinda loses that nostalgia feel people might have had when it was supposed to be a throwback to the 86. Also something about being "out of the norm" for Toyota made it special. Having a sporty, aggressive coupe in the world of camrys, corollas, and venzas, made it unique and different.
I still think it's a nice car, and would really consider it, but as a scion owner, I was kinda hoping for my next car to be a "step up" and something about going from one scion to another doesn't really do it for me.
While I'm not thrilled it's a scion, at least it's better than throwing a Lexus badge on it and charging you an extra $5k.
I still think it's a nice car, and would really consider it, but as a scion owner, I was kinda hoping for my next car to be a "step up" and something about going from one scion to another doesn't really do it for me.
While I'm not thrilled it's a scion, at least it's better than throwing a Lexus badge on it and charging you an extra $5k.
04-20-2011, 07:22 PM
#332
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
I don't see what the big deal is. I guess I might change my mind when I'm in my 30s or 40s but then again I don't see the problem with me driving something like a Lexus GS or LS. I've seen a few gray-haired folks drive Scions (mostly older xBs) and plenty of 30-somethings drive them. I guess at first it is sort of strange but in reality is there anything that fundamentally different from a Civic vs. a tC, or a Fit vs. a xB/xD?
I just think it's silly that you guys lost so much interest in it, not on the premise of different styling or a change in price, but rather because it is now a Scion and not a Toyota. I have met and seen 50-something or older S2000 and Miata owners, and I see them as more of a younger person's car... but it didn't necessarily strike me as strange.
I just think it's silly that you guys lost so much interest in it, not on the premise of different styling or a change in price, but rather because it is now a Scion and not a Toyota. I have met and seen 50-something or older S2000 and Miata owners, and I see them as more of a younger person's car... but it didn't necessarily strike me as strange.
Though it's not my call I don't get why this was split into a separate thread either this is the same car. It's not even a badge engineering job, there is no Scion version, this IS the planned FT-86 concept. This is like making a new thread for the VW Rabbit after they changed the name to "Golf"
this is the same car. It's not even a badge engineering job, there is no Scion version, this IS the planned FT-86 concept. This is like making a new thread for the VW Rabbit after they changed the name to "Golf"
Blame Yumchah
Although in his defense he thought there were now 2 versions of the FT-86. One of us will merge them back together shortly.
04-20-2011, 08:26 PM
#334
Safety Car
I'm kinda torn. It's not like I disrespect scion (I mean, I do own one), I just think changing it to a scion kinda loses that nostalgia feel people might have had when it was supposed to be a throwback to the 86. Also something about being "out of the norm" for Toyota made it special. Having a sporty, aggressive coupe in the world of camrys, corollas, and venzas, made it unique and different.
I still think it's a nice car, and would really consider it, but as a scion owner, I was kinda hoping for my next car to be a "step up" and something about going from one scion to another doesn't really do it for me.
While I'm not thrilled it's a scion, at least it's better than throwing a Lexus badge on it and charging you an extra $5k.
I still think it's a nice car, and would really consider it, but as a scion owner, I was kinda hoping for my next car to be a "step up" and something about going from one scion to another doesn't really do it for me.
While I'm not thrilled it's a scion, at least it's better than throwing a Lexus badge on it and charging you an extra $5k.
04-20-2011, 08:29 PM
#335
Senior Moderator
2011 Scion FR-S Concept Revealed
Press release...
Scion unveiled the rear-wheel drive FR-S Concept sports coupe to- day at the 2011 New York International Auto Show. The concept, which sets out to stimulate the souls of true driving enthusiasts, will be at the Scion display through May 1. The FR-S Concept will inspire a new model coming to the Scion brand next year.
The FR-S Concept, which stands for Front-engine, Rear-wheel drive, Sport; is Scion's defini- tion of an authentic rear-wheel-drive sports car with compelling style, exceptionally balanced perfor- mance and handling, flexible utility and surprising MPG.
"Scion is always experimenting with new things," said Jack Hollis, Scion vice president. "The brand is iconic with the xB, adrenalized by the tC, and groundbreaking with the iQ. The FR-S will expand the brand into yet another new dimension that I know it is truly destined for."
The FR-S is a true "scion," born into a lengthy history of Toyota performance cars and motor- sports. The sports coupe is most inspired by the AE86 generation of the Corolla, better known as the Hachi-Roku, meaning "8-6" in Japanese. The front-engine, rear-wheel drive coupe was lightweight and well balanced, making it a solid choice for driving enthusiasts.
Inspired by the AE86, the FR-S is built around the core goal of achieving "pure balance," which begins with the strategic placement of a flat 2.0-liter boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration. The engine's compact size and shape allows the FR-S' powertrain to be mounted lower and further back towards the rear, giving the car a lower center of gravity and a dynamically favorable front-to-rear weight ratio.
The FR-S' naturally-aspirated engine is innovative, being the first boxer to incorporate Toyota's D4-S injection system, which utilizes both direct and port injection, resulting in increased horsepower and torque throughout the entire powerband, without sacrificing MPG.
The flat-four can mate with either a six-speed manual or a six-speed automatic transmission. The manual offers quick and precise shifts with a short-throw, while the automatic transmission features aggressive, sporty shifts that are initiated by steering- wheel-mounted paddle shifters. Power is distributed effectively via a limited-slip differential.
The idea of "pure balance" is further realized by the FR-S' lightweight design and short wheelbase. The combination allows the car to be quick and nimble into and out of any corner, with dynamic maneuverability and confident stability.
"Akio Toyoda has mentioned that he is going to bring the fun-to-drive spirit back to Toyota," Hollis said. "I know that the Scion FR-S Concept is one of the ways that he plans to accomplish that." The fierce exterior of the FR-S is a good reflection of its inner power. The intimidating proportions of the concept give it a dominant stance that bleeds performance. The profile, inspired by the Toyota 2000GT, reveals a hood-line that is remarkably sleek and low, made possible by the boxer's architecture.
The low stance continues to exaggerate the FR-S' menacing face, which is made up of sharp lines, a wide mouth and angular headlights that include bright LED clusters.
The solid panel roofline is sleek, lightweight and rigid, slotted with an aerodynamic shape that channels air cleanly over to the top.
The front fenders protrude upward, making space for the massive monoblock Five Axis 20x8.5-inch wheels, while the muscular rear fenders are widened to house the 20x10.5-inch wheels, emphasizing the FR-S' staggered stance and rear-wheel-drive setup.
The rear fascia sits low and wide, with extensive lower treatments that surround the dual exhaust exits and contribute to excellent aerodynamics. LEDs illuminate both the edgy taillights and the bold "SCION" logo.
The concept features four-piston-caliper front brakes that clamp down on monstrous 18-inch annular carbon ceramic matrix rotors that are fixed to the wheels in a motorcycle-fashion. The FR-S Concept is layered in rich coats of Code Red, the appropriately named color that consists of a custom blend of candy and a developmental additive from BASF called Mearlite SSQ.
The FR-S Concept, which stands for Front-engine, Rear-wheel drive, Sport; is Scion's defini- tion of an authentic rear-wheel-drive sports car with compelling style, exceptionally balanced perfor- mance and handling, flexible utility and surprising MPG.
"Scion is always experimenting with new things," said Jack Hollis, Scion vice president. "The brand is iconic with the xB, adrenalized by the tC, and groundbreaking with the iQ. The FR-S will expand the brand into yet another new dimension that I know it is truly destined for."
The FR-S is a true "scion," born into a lengthy history of Toyota performance cars and motor- sports. The sports coupe is most inspired by the AE86 generation of the Corolla, better known as the Hachi-Roku, meaning "8-6" in Japanese. The front-engine, rear-wheel drive coupe was lightweight and well balanced, making it a solid choice for driving enthusiasts.
Inspired by the AE86, the FR-S is built around the core goal of achieving "pure balance," which begins with the strategic placement of a flat 2.0-liter boxer engine in a front-engine, rear-wheel drive configuration. The engine's compact size and shape allows the FR-S' powertrain to be mounted lower and further back towards the rear, giving the car a lower center of gravity and a dynamically favorable front-to-rear weight ratio.
The FR-S' naturally-aspirated engine is innovative, being the first boxer to incorporate Toyota's D4-S injection system, which utilizes both direct and port injection, resulting in increased horsepower and torque throughout the entire powerband, without sacrificing MPG.
The flat-four can mate with either a six-speed manual or a six-speed automatic transmission. The manual offers quick and precise shifts with a short-throw, while the automatic transmission features aggressive, sporty shifts that are initiated by steering- wheel-mounted paddle shifters. Power is distributed effectively via a limited-slip differential.
The idea of "pure balance" is further realized by the FR-S' lightweight design and short wheelbase. The combination allows the car to be quick and nimble into and out of any corner, with dynamic maneuverability and confident stability.
"Akio Toyoda has mentioned that he is going to bring the fun-to-drive spirit back to Toyota," Hollis said. "I know that the Scion FR-S Concept is one of the ways that he plans to accomplish that." The fierce exterior of the FR-S is a good reflection of its inner power. The intimidating proportions of the concept give it a dominant stance that bleeds performance. The profile, inspired by the Toyota 2000GT, reveals a hood-line that is remarkably sleek and low, made possible by the boxer's architecture.
The low stance continues to exaggerate the FR-S' menacing face, which is made up of sharp lines, a wide mouth and angular headlights that include bright LED clusters.
The solid panel roofline is sleek, lightweight and rigid, slotted with an aerodynamic shape that channels air cleanly over to the top.
The front fenders protrude upward, making space for the massive monoblock Five Axis 20x8.5-inch wheels, while the muscular rear fenders are widened to house the 20x10.5-inch wheels, emphasizing the FR-S' staggered stance and rear-wheel-drive setup.
The rear fascia sits low and wide, with extensive lower treatments that surround the dual exhaust exits and contribute to excellent aerodynamics. LEDs illuminate both the edgy taillights and the bold "SCION" logo.
The concept features four-piston-caliper front brakes that clamp down on monstrous 18-inch annular carbon ceramic matrix rotors that are fixed to the wheels in a motorcycle-fashion. The FR-S Concept is layered in rich coats of Code Red, the appropriately named color that consists of a custom blend of candy and a developmental additive from BASF called Mearlite SSQ.
04-20-2011, 08:29 PM
#336
Senior Moderator
04-21-2011, 12:38 AM
#338
Those new shots show off the lines much better 
it flows much better than the FT-86 and FT-86 II IMO, aggressive looks on the front and rear end as well as the profile instead of the mish mash of it's predecessors.
I just hope that the backlit "SCION" on the trunk doesn't make it to production. It most likely won't, but you never know
it flows much better than the FT-86 and FT-86 II IMO, aggressive looks on the front and rear end as well as the profile instead of the mish mash of it's predecessors.I just hope that the backlit "SCION" on the trunk doesn't make it to production. It most likely won't, but you never know
04-21-2011, 12:51 AM
#339
The Third Ball
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Ummm....does it have lambo doors? Look at where the handles are located...
I'm just not sold on this thing.
I'm just not sold on this thing.
04-21-2011, 08:21 AM
#341
Safety Car
i highly highly doubt it will have gullwings - however, now that its a scion, it could be offered as an option, but i doubt it, since they would have to mass produce two different types of sheetmetal for the doors.
the lit up trunk lid could also be an option. although, i dont even know if having non-functional exterior lighting is legal in all states.
one thign is for certain, there is no way in hell the car will have all LED headlights. they are way too expensive for a 20k something car. i think the A8 headlights are like $4k each.
^^ all that said above, i think the production version is going to look like a toned down gimmicky POS, with some level of potential for modding in the looks department.
Last edited by ThermonMermon; 04-21-2011 at 08:30 AM.
04-21-2011, 11:04 AM
#343
Don't care if it's a Scion as long as the interior materials and design is better than current Scions
04-21-2011, 11:05 AM
#344
04-21-2011, 11:36 AM
#345
Among many other stupid people...yeah I think I officially don't care about this car anymore. I'm not totally a badge whore but Scion? Please.
04-21-2011, 01:47 PM
#347
My first Avatar....
Badge whore? 
here at AZ?
nahhh.....
btw...I like the pics on this page....don't know how much of it will make it to production but so far so good.
Give it real power RWD and a MT and I'd drive one. Guess I have to turn in my Badge Whore Membership card.
here at AZ? nahhh.....
btw...I like the pics on this page....don't know how much of it will make it to production but so far so good.
Give it real power RWD and a MT and I'd drive one. Guess I have to turn in my Badge Whore Membership card.
Last edited by pttl; 04-21-2011 at 01:49 PM.
@ The Crossturd.
04-21-2011, 02:59 PM
#349
US Navy Seabees
anybody notice that face on the last pic in the reflection? weird.
04-21-2011, 04:02 PM
#351
I shoot people
I like it, and couldn't care less what badging its going to have
04-21-2011, 09:29 PM
#353
US Navy Seabees
04-22-2011, 08:35 AM
#355
Senior Moderator
I like it... and don't mind the scion badging... but for christ's sake, put the thing out already... It's been presented as a concept three times.
If they price it right (less than the Genesis coupe), they'll have a winner...
It'll be interesting to see how the subaru version compares...
If they price it right (less than the Genesis coupe), they'll have a winner...
It'll be interesting to see how the subaru version compares...
04-22-2011, 08:54 AM
#356
my coffee, it's everywhere!I can see where you're all coming from but I still don't necessarily get it. It's like saying "I would never get a CTS-V because Cadillacs are for pimps, gangsters or geriatrics (or all of the above?!?)"
In any case point taken, this is certainly better than any other concepts we've seen from Honda lately. The NSX successor doesn't count because it's vaporware
04-22-2011, 09:01 AM
#357
Senior Moderator
With the compact rwd coupe market having the gencoupe, bmw 128/135, and the scion/subaru FT-86 soon, you'd think Honda would at least revive the S2000 to offer people a honda to cross shop in that segment.
04-22-2011, 11:52 AM
#358
Three Wheelin'
I'm 36 and the badge on my grille is less important than the functionality of the vehicle and the ability to allow my wife to stay home with my baby boy. So I'd rather drive a Mazda 6 than a TL if I can have 85% of the vehicle and save 30% in price.
So if this Scion fit the bill for me dynamically, I'd buy it, period. As you get older, the dynamics of the vehicle trump badge implications. Your family and your home say more about you than your car. This is not the case with everyone, but I, for one, sold my 325i for my 6, my buddy sold his 911 for a Sienna (
), etc.
That being said, Toyota badging the FT-86 as a Scion may entice the 16-25 year olds, but it will limit its appeal to the mid-20s to mid-30s (Scion marketing).
So if this Scion fit the bill for me dynamically, I'd buy it, period. As you get older, the dynamics of the vehicle trump badge implications. Your family and your home say more about you than your car. This is not the case with everyone, but I, for one, sold my 325i for my 6, my buddy sold his 911 for a Sienna (
), etc.That being said, Toyota badging the FT-86 as a Scion may entice the 16-25 year olds, but it will limit its appeal to the mid-20s to mid-30s (Scion marketing).
04-22-2011, 03:45 PM
#359
Midnight Marauder
04-22-2011, 07:57 PM
#360
I shoot people