Tesla: Model S News
05-14-2013, 01:41 PM
#161
Senior Moderator
You're suffering from future shock.
Sure you have lots of challenges that lie ahead - those are the things that get fine-tuned and adjusted over the years to make the experience better for everyone. This is version 1.0 of electric car.
Sure you have lots of challenges that lie ahead - those are the things that get fine-tuned and adjusted over the years to make the experience better for everyone. This is version 1.0 of electric car.
05-14-2013, 01:52 PM
#162
Suzuka Master
It doesn't matter how good it is -the fact that you are somewhat tied to an extension cord makes it a niche limited use vehicle. This is the prefect vehicle for those who have bought into the manmade global warming myth and used to have a Prius and an S class in the driveway. 
....and as it was pointed out before, the car probably would not exist without the very heavy subsidizing all levels of gov't have provided.
....and as it was pointed out before, the car probably would not exist without the very heavy subsidizing all levels of gov't have provided.
He also has solar panels at his house and pays basically $0 for electricity.
Despite all this, the car itself is still revolutionary considering the interior as well. There's no car like it. And that big ass touch screen is nice. The car is also fast, handles decently and doesnt cost much to run. Looks amazing. Its a good car in general, not looking at the whole environmental aspect.
05-14-2013, 02:09 PM
#163
The sizzle in the Steak
Fine tuned? It's an entire complete infrastructure change.
That's a far cry from fine tuned, wouldn't you say?
...and then you have the whole competitive, fair market system, in which the electric car is "outside" of.
...and of course the whole future cost of electricity to run the car.
Imagine when China gets 'em, and all the extra coal they will have to burn to run the electric cars.
05-14-2013, 02:12 PM
#164
Senior Moderator
I'll give you a hint: there were no gas stations on every block when the car was invented.
05-14-2013, 02:47 PM
#165
The sizzle in the Steak
I beg to differ, that was a decades long, near century long process.
A massive infrastructure change for electricity access, to where an electric car would function in a similar fashion to an IC engine car, will take more than a decade or two...and it's possible that with the new massive amounts of shale gas/oil in the U.S., and the increase demand/legislation for green electricity regulations.....electricity may become cost prohibitive down the road versus diesel/gas.
05-14-2013, 02:50 PM
#166
Senior Moderator
You act like we're living in some primitive world. THERE ARE ALREADY charging stations at numerous locations around big cities. It's not like that is some big hurdle to get past, which you are making it out to be.
05-14-2013, 03:12 PM
#167
The sizzle in the Steak
Here's one I designed about a year ago:
I can tell you this, their implementation is few and far between.
The cost is high, and most are doing it for PR purposes only, not for demand...as in the end, so far, they are used infrequently.
Sidebar...surprisingly most are used for Nissan Leafs....go figure.
Even in SoCal, the move is very, very, very slow.
...and yes, it is a huge hurdle, considering the amount of charging stations that would need to be installed. Nearly every shopping center and office building would need them...that's an immense scale.
Consider also that the car would need to be left charging for a min. of 20 minutes, if not for hours to top off the power....hence the demand for more charging stations will be needed, as opposed to filling up your gas tank in 5 minutes, and moving on.
It's a massive change.
05-14-2013, 03:19 PM
#168
Senior Moderator
good to know.
I guess it's kind of scary given the comments you are making in here and that it's in your line of work.
I guess it's kind of scary given the comments you are making in here and that it's in your line of work.
05-14-2013, 03:30 PM
#169
The Third Ball
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05-14-2013, 03:32 PM
#170
The sizzle in the Steak
(I'm in Commercial Architecture, not electrical, or charging stations)
It's also pretty amazing how in 2013, many cities have nothing on the books in terms of their City Planning Master Plan regarding charging stations. Many cities are blind-sided when it comes to the installation of charging stations.
The charging stations are pretty cool (at least the GE one's). You can monitor your vehicle status via the web.
Some clients are even paying for their employees charging!!
Crazy perk, eh?
I understand what you are saying, but from my experience to change over infrastructure from gasoline to electricity will be monumental.
05-14-2013, 03:34 PM
#171
Senior Moderator
Nah, I still stand by everything I've said in here. Call it optimism and belief in the future. There are factors and possibilities which none of us will be able to predict or foresee - not even people working in the field.
05-14-2013, 03:46 PM
#172
The sizzle in the Steak
However there is realities.
Which among them are shale oil/gas discoveries in the U.S., and the ramifications of environmental restrictions on electricity, and the sources of where that power comes from.
^^Those two are foreseeable, and could severely hinder the electric car.
The energy market is going to have a lot to do with the electric car's future.
05-14-2013, 03:51 PM
#173
The sizzle in the Steak
Kalifornia is shooting itself in the foot on electricity.
Costly state energy policies to raise California power costs by 33 percent
http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/24/re...#ixzz2TInjNSIh
cheap electricity
Kalifornia religious environmental zealots have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Costly state energy policies to raise California power costs by 33 percent
California has been a leader in renewable energy production, in part due to federal and state level policies that provide incentives for producers of renewable power. However, a new report found that California’s energy policies will raise state power rates and associated costs by nearly 33 percent.
The report by the free-market Pacific Research Institute specifically focuses on the additional costs imposed by a state mandate that requires 33 percent of its power come from renewable sources, like wind, solar and geothermal by 2020. PRI estimates that the California renewable portfolio standard will be an additional $5 billion in 2020.
The mandate represents an implicit 27 percent tax on power generation in the state due to the “the forced substitution of expensive power in place of cheaper electricity, particularly in terms of transmission, backup, and generation costs.”
“Moreover, this implicit tax to be imposed upon the California economy will grow each year as the size of the electricity market expands and the RPS requirement forces ever-greater amounts of high-cost power onto the market,” writes PRI senior fellow and report author Benjamin Zycher.
“This perverse effect inexorably will be reflected fully in rising rates paid by consumers, whether directly or indirectly,” Zycher continues.
The costs to California consumers in 2020 will rise by more than 13 percent as a result of the renewable fuel mandate. However, the report notes that even without the mandate, state power rates would rise by nearly 20 percent due to “various capital investments driven by both economic and regulatory factors,” and because of the state’s cap-and-trade program.
All of these policies taken together will cause power rates and costs to rise nearly 33 percent between now and 2020, according to the report.
The report by the free-market Pacific Research Institute specifically focuses on the additional costs imposed by a state mandate that requires 33 percent of its power come from renewable sources, like wind, solar and geothermal by 2020. PRI estimates that the California renewable portfolio standard will be an additional $5 billion in 2020.
The mandate represents an implicit 27 percent tax on power generation in the state due to the “the forced substitution of expensive power in place of cheaper electricity, particularly in terms of transmission, backup, and generation costs.”
“Moreover, this implicit tax to be imposed upon the California economy will grow each year as the size of the electricity market expands and the RPS requirement forces ever-greater amounts of high-cost power onto the market,” writes PRI senior fellow and report author Benjamin Zycher.
“This perverse effect inexorably will be reflected fully in rising rates paid by consumers, whether directly or indirectly,” Zycher continues.
The costs to California consumers in 2020 will rise by more than 13 percent as a result of the renewable fuel mandate. However, the report notes that even without the mandate, state power rates would rise by nearly 20 percent due to “various capital investments driven by both economic and regulatory factors,” and because of the state’s cap-and-trade program.
All of these policies taken together will cause power rates and costs to rise nearly 33 percent between now and 2020, according to the report.
cheap electricityKalifornia religious environmental zealots have killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.
05-14-2013, 11:01 PM
#174
Suzuka Master
Time to invest in solar panels then
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
05-15-2013, 02:14 AM
#175
Senior Moderator
Time to invest in solar panels then
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
05-15-2013, 03:44 AM
#176
Senior Moderator
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ng-soon-report
Tesla Model S May Get Battery Swapping Soon: Report
By John Voelcker John Voelcker
1,210 views May 14, 2013
The 2013 Tesla Model S has received rave reviews, including the best score that Consumer Reports has given any car in six years.
The stock of Tesla Motors [NSDQ:TSLA] is on a roll, the company is delivering hundreds of its Model S all-electric luxury sport sedan every week, and it just turned in its first-ever profitable quarter.
What can Tesla do for an encore?
Betting seems to be that CEO Elon Musk will shortly announce that the company will offer battery-pack swapping for the Model S at locations across the country.
Tesla plans $200 million in capital expenditure this year, according to its recent annual report, and it has referred to building "specialized public facilities to perform [battery] swapping" that it might construct as well as Tesla Stores and service centers.
Musk still has two out of five announcements left in the series he announced some weeks ago.
Company followers expect one to cover expansion of the Supercharger quick-charging network.
That network allows drivers traveling between city pairs perhaps 300 miles apart to stop for a half-hour recharge that refills the battery pack to 80 percent of its energy capacity.
But the battery swapping--which Tesla has discussed several times over the years--seems likely to be the other announcement, as detailed on Green Car Reports.
"There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country," Musk recently tweeted, "faster than you could fill a gas tank."
Battery swapping is really the only method that would allow a completely recharged car to be provided in less than 10 minutes.
Stay tuned for the latest in the string of surprises from what has to be, this year, the country's most surprising automaker.
By John Voelcker John Voelcker
1,210 views May 14, 2013
The 2013 Tesla Model S has received rave reviews, including the best score that Consumer Reports has given any car in six years.
The stock of Tesla Motors [NSDQ:TSLA] is on a roll, the company is delivering hundreds of its Model S all-electric luxury sport sedan every week, and it just turned in its first-ever profitable quarter.
What can Tesla do for an encore?
Betting seems to be that CEO Elon Musk will shortly announce that the company will offer battery-pack swapping for the Model S at locations across the country.
Tesla plans $200 million in capital expenditure this year, according to its recent annual report, and it has referred to building "specialized public facilities to perform [battery] swapping" that it might construct as well as Tesla Stores and service centers.
Musk still has two out of five announcements left in the series he announced some weeks ago.
Company followers expect one to cover expansion of the Supercharger quick-charging network.
That network allows drivers traveling between city pairs perhaps 300 miles apart to stop for a half-hour recharge that refills the battery pack to 80 percent of its energy capacity.
But the battery swapping--which Tesla has discussed several times over the years--seems likely to be the other announcement, as detailed on Green Car Reports.
"There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country," Musk recently tweeted, "faster than you could fill a gas tank."
Battery swapping is really the only method that would allow a completely recharged car to be provided in less than 10 minutes.
Stay tuned for the latest in the string of surprises from what has to be, this year, the country's most surprising automaker.
05-15-2013, 06:50 AM
#177
Race Director
Like GM has found with the Volt and Nissan with the Leaf, the initial buzz created some sales, but in the end most folks just won't pony up the extra money (on top of the gov't handouts) for the technology when plain ole gas guzzlers are cheaper.
05-15-2013, 06:51 AM
#178
Race Director
http://www.cityam.com/article/wave-g...etrol-stations
The eccentric shape may divide opinion, but when it comes to electric cars, the Nissan Leaf is still in charge
IN NORWAY, hydroelectric plants generate 99 per cent of the country’s electricity. At the same time electric vehicles sell better there than anywhere else – and all that in a country that boasts more than half of the North Sea’s remaining oil and gas reserves.
This is part of the reason I find myself in Oslo driving the latest Nissan Leaf. In Norway there is no sales tax or road tax to pay on electric vehicles (EVs), and in some cities, including Oslo, parking and charging – via a comprehensive citywide infrastructure – is free. Best of all, you can drive in the bus lanes, which improves commuting times significantly.
This 2013 Leaf model has undergone more than 100 different improvements to ensure it’s a better car to drive and easier and more convenient to use. Power and range have been increased and the plug-in charging unit, which used to take up boot space, has been relocated to the front of the car, liberating an extra 40 litres. Meanwhile, charging time has been cut in half to four hours. The car is also lighter and has an improved ride thanks to a chassis retuned for European tastes. The result is an electric car that is comfortable, practical and fun.
The important news is that this 2013 model is being sold with new trim levels and a whole new payment structure for ownership. Now, for the first time, you can opt to reduce the overall cost of the car by leasing the battery instead, with prices beginning at £70 per month.
Exterior refinements are subtle to say the least: the car is as funny-looking as it’s always been. The interior, has become more conventional, although it still feels futuristic, with its cool blue accents.
This Leaf is much more fun to drive than previous models. The steering doesn’t feel particularly responsive at speed but around town this translates into better manoeuvrability. Zippy, comfortable and quiet, progress feels efficient, and the new Leaf feels faster than the 0-62mph acceleration time suggests. Sure, it’s niche, but if you have a commute within a range of 80-90 miles or so, you can charge it in the garage at home or at work. The £2 it will cost you to do so is a seductively small price to pay. The knowledge you will never have to loiter in a petrol station forecourt ever again is enticing. As the infrastructure grows, many of the obstacles to EV ownership will be eradicated, just as they have been in Norway. It will be interesting to see if the Mayor’s office ever throws its weight behind a functional, free charging network in London.
In Norway there’s a plan to install fast charging units in McDonalds car parks. Now that really does sound like progress.
THE FACTS: NISSAN LEAF
PRICE: £15,990
0-62MPH: 11.5 secs
TOP SPEED: 89mph
CO2 G/KM: 0g/km
RANGE: 124 miles
IN NORWAY, hydroelectric plants generate 99 per cent of the country’s electricity. At the same time electric vehicles sell better there than anywhere else – and all that in a country that boasts more than half of the North Sea’s remaining oil and gas reserves.
This is part of the reason I find myself in Oslo driving the latest Nissan Leaf. In Norway there is no sales tax or road tax to pay on electric vehicles (EVs), and in some cities, including Oslo, parking and charging – via a comprehensive citywide infrastructure – is free. Best of all, you can drive in the bus lanes, which improves commuting times significantly.
This 2013 Leaf model has undergone more than 100 different improvements to ensure it’s a better car to drive and easier and more convenient to use. Power and range have been increased and the plug-in charging unit, which used to take up boot space, has been relocated to the front of the car, liberating an extra 40 litres. Meanwhile, charging time has been cut in half to four hours. The car is also lighter and has an improved ride thanks to a chassis retuned for European tastes. The result is an electric car that is comfortable, practical and fun.
The important news is that this 2013 model is being sold with new trim levels and a whole new payment structure for ownership. Now, for the first time, you can opt to reduce the overall cost of the car by leasing the battery instead, with prices beginning at £70 per month.
Exterior refinements are subtle to say the least: the car is as funny-looking as it’s always been. The interior, has become more conventional, although it still feels futuristic, with its cool blue accents.
This Leaf is much more fun to drive than previous models. The steering doesn’t feel particularly responsive at speed but around town this translates into better manoeuvrability. Zippy, comfortable and quiet, progress feels efficient, and the new Leaf feels faster than the 0-62mph acceleration time suggests. Sure, it’s niche, but if you have a commute within a range of 80-90 miles or so, you can charge it in the garage at home or at work. The £2 it will cost you to do so is a seductively small price to pay. The knowledge you will never have to loiter in a petrol station forecourt ever again is enticing. As the infrastructure grows, many of the obstacles to EV ownership will be eradicated, just as they have been in Norway. It will be interesting to see if the Mayor’s office ever throws its weight behind a functional, free charging network in London.
In Norway there’s a plan to install fast charging units in McDonalds car parks. Now that really does sound like progress.
THE FACTS: NISSAN LEAF
PRICE: £15,990
0-62MPH: 11.5 secs
TOP SPEED: 89mph
CO2 G/KM: 0g/km
RANGE: 124 miles
05-15-2013, 06:58 AM
#179
Race Director
^ despite all of this, people still gravitate to gas powered cars in Norway. I was in Oslo in January and saw it all first hand. Yes, there are a lot of EVs (besides the Leaf), gas is about $10 a gal (despite the fact that they pull it ouf of the ground right there for next to nothing) and a similar sized Sentra is about the same price (no huge delta like in the US) but gas powered cars are still prefered. Socialism and tree hugger mentality will only get you so far. It will be a very long time before EVs, and especially high priced ones like the Tesla, will make any kind of sizeable dent into the personal vehicle market.
05-15-2013, 10:03 AM
#180
Having driven the Model S, I can compare it favorably to my cousin's CLS55 AMG that he bought a while back. The range on the two cars is not dramatically different, the interior comfort is not too dramatically different, and the acceleration and overall performance are pretty close with the Model S actually feeling like it handles better. The CLS when new cost as much as, if not more than, the top of the line Model S Performance and has fancier seats, but gives up technology and interior room.
Sure the Model S costs a lot now and infrastructure is still in the nascent developing stages. Over time, costs for the vehicles will come down as Tesla moves down market with its products and the infrastructure, which Elon Musk and Tesla have committed to help build out themselves, is beginning to develop in areas where the cars are more popular.
I see the Model S in much the same way people in the early 20th century viewed the mass produced internal combustion engine car, as a harbinger of potential change. Change is always going to be met with resistance and will always face an uphill battle against the status quo, but that does not necessarily mean it will not happen.
Honestly, if you have not driven the Model S, you should take the opportunity to schedule a test drive. After driving it, it may not change your mind about EVs, but you may change your mind about how good it is as a car.
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speedemon90 (05-16-2013)
05-15-2013, 11:04 AM
#181
The sizzle in the Steak
Time to invest in solar panels then
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
Despite the hard hurdles this brings I think it's still a good thing because when there is a demand more research will be put into it. Things like creating better batteries, new ways to recharge batteries without plugging it into a socket. Things like that will eventually come.
Now the cost for something like this is way to high right now but imagine a parking structure that had wireless charging coils under each spot. Or imagine roads with it that when you stop at a red light or your stuck in traffic your car charges. And have all this coming from green energy.
Now obviously something like this is really unreasonable right now, but possibly not in the next century.
one last thing I like about the model s is the OTA updates. That's pretty neat especially since they can address a lot of issues and have lots of upgrades OTA
All from green energy?
Come on now, all all for technological advances, but why not throw in some unicorns and rainbows too.
The realities are quite different, ESPECIALLY in Kalifornia.
You do pay attention to what is going on in this state, no?
..but you might be right, this is a century away, not a decade or two, if ever.
...but in a century there will be even better tech than battery driven cars.
...sorta like people imagined everything steam powered in the future.
Technology is going to change.
Meanwhile
to everything you thought about oil and electricity, the world is going to change very, very soon.IEA: Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
The supply shock created by a surge in North American oil production will be as transformative to the market over the next five years as was the rise of Chinese demand over the last 15, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its annual Medium-Term Oil Market Report (MTOMR) released today. The shift will not only cause oil companies to overhaul their global investment strategies, but also reshape the way oil is transported, stored and refined.
NA will be energy independent, and will even be a net exporter of oil.
Meanwhile, electricity is going to rise all due to green regulations/legislation.
In a matter of years one source of energy will be cheap, the other expensive....can you guess which one?
05-15-2013, 11:06 AM
#182
Senior Moderator
how about solar panels
05-15-2013, 12:17 PM
#183
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Put them on the roof of your car :wink:
When gasoline becomes cheaper than electricity, why would you spend thousands of dollars to install solar on the roof of your home?
And if you live in an apartment or condo......no dice.
Energy as we know it (in the U.S.) is going to change dramatically in a few years.
When gasoline becomes cheaper than electricity, why would you spend thousands of dollars to install solar on the roof of your home?
And if you live in an apartment or condo......no dice.
Energy as we know it (in the U.S.) is going to change dramatically in a few years.
05-15-2013, 02:17 PM
#184
2G TLX-S
05-15-2013, 02:19 PM
#185
Senior Moderator
the government? are you saying they are investing this much into electric car technology backing Tesla etc. but at the same time they are making it difficult for them by doing things such as this kind of penalty?
05-15-2013, 02:27 PM
#186
Moderator
A certain phrase about the left hand and the right hand comes to mind.
05-15-2013, 02:30 PM
#187
Senior Moderator
this could easily be a R&P thread 
05-16-2013, 06:31 AM
#188
Race Director
Yes, Tesla might steal some sales all the way down to mid size luxury sedans (think $60+K E class and 5 series), but again, as I pointed out above, the mentality of the driving public is not there and may not be for a very long time for the EV lifestyle.
05-16-2013, 10:28 AM
#189
I'm the Firestarter
There are also several externalities from gas burning cars that end up costing you in other ways, even though they don't cost you when you're buying the car.
I agree that Tesla probably gets a larger subsidy right now than oil, sometimes there are barriers to entry for new technologies that require market distortion and end up generating a benefit for society.
05-16-2013, 01:30 PM
#191
I'm the Firestarter
No idea, but when Tesla becomes a multi-billion dollar company I expect them to get much less money per car.
05-16-2013, 03:38 PM
#192
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ 
I see how that works.
I see how that works.
05-16-2013, 10:35 PM
#193
I'm the Firestarter
^ Good. See, when Tesla becomes a multi-billion dollar company your government will start wars to secure the Lithium supply instead of giving them money outright.
05-16-2013, 11:24 PM
#194
Suzuka Master
It definitely changed my mind about EV cars. Make no mistake though, as this car stands it is for the well off/rich folks.
I've driven a leaf and I would stay away from it. But I'm coming from an enthusiasts point of view.
Who pays for your car to charge while seated in traffic?
All from green energy?
Come on now, all all for technological advances, but why not throw in some unicorns and rainbows too.
The realities are quite different, ESPECIALLY in Kalifornia.
You do pay attention to what is going on in this state, no?
..but you might be right, this is a century away, not a decade or two, if ever.
...but in a century there will be even better tech than battery driven cars.
...sorta like people imagined everything steam powered in the future.
Technology is going to change.
Meanwhile to everything you thought about oil and electricity, the world is going to change very, very soon.
IEA: Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
http://iea.org/newsroomandevents/pre...,38080,en.html
NA will be energy independent, and will even be a net exporter of oil.
Meanwhile, electricity is going to rise all due to green regulations/legislation.
In a matter of years one source of energy will be cheap, the other expensive....can you guess which one?
All from green energy?
Come on now, all all for technological advances, but why not throw in some unicorns and rainbows too.
The realities are quite different, ESPECIALLY in Kalifornia.
You do pay attention to what is going on in this state, no?
..but you might be right, this is a century away, not a decade or two, if ever.
...but in a century there will be even better tech than battery driven cars.
...sorta like people imagined everything steam powered in the future.
Technology is going to change.
Meanwhile
to everything you thought about oil and electricity, the world is going to change very, very soon.IEA: Supply shock from North American oil rippling through global markets
http://iea.org/newsroomandevents/pre...,38080,en.html
NA will be energy independent, and will even be a net exporter of oil.
Meanwhile, electricity is going to rise all due to green regulations/legislation.
In a matter of years one source of energy will be cheap, the other expensive....can you guess which one?
you're right its all unicorns and such, and nothing is dramatically changing in the next decade. BUT in a century who knows where it will be on what kind of energy we will use. There are SO MANY factors.
First for cars I think hydrogen seems like the best replacement. But what if in the next couple decades there becomes huge advances in batteries and/or green energy like harnessing the power of the oceans and such. So its really a race between different technologies and then we'd find out which is actually a viable thing. My post was from the perspective that energy wins out.
^^ Put them on the roof of your car :wink:
When gasoline becomes cheaper than electricity, why would you spend thousands of dollars to install solar on the roof of your home?
And if you live in an apartment or condo......no dice.
Energy as we know it (in the U.S.) is going to change dramatically in a few years.
When gasoline becomes cheaper than electricity, why would you spend thousands of dollars to install solar on the roof of your home?
And if you live in an apartment or condo......no dice.
Energy as we know it (in the U.S.) is going to change dramatically in a few years.
No but honda already has the backing of huge company. Face it, without the help of the government no new company can come into the auto market and revolutionize it or go for something so drastic.
I'm not saying I agree with the subsidies and frankly I'm not a big fan especially the amount they are giving per car sold. It should maybe have been loans or something of that sort.
05-17-2013, 06:54 AM
#195
Race Director
No but honda already has the backing of huge company. Face it, without the help of the government no new company can come into the auto market and revolutionize it or go for something so drastic.
I'm not saying I agree with the subsidies and frankly I'm not a big fan especially the amount they are giving per car sold. It should maybe have been loans or something of that sort.
I'm not saying I agree with the subsidies and frankly I'm not a big fan especially the amount they are giving per car sold. It should maybe have been loans or something of that sort.
Tesla already has an outstanding loan with the gov't (to the tune of over $400 mil) - thankfully for us taxpayers, it seems like they will have the ability to pay it back (some of it subsidized).
05-17-2013, 09:57 AM
#196
Engineer
05-17-2013, 10:08 AM
#197
Senior Moderator
looks like you will have to find something else to argue against now
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/16...-off-doe-loan/
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/16...-off-doe-loan/
Tesla selling new stock, debt worth $830m in order to pay off DOE loan
Anyone paying attention to the electric vehicle scene for the last few weeks knows that the stock value of Tesla Motors has been climbing faster than a SpaceX rocket. As of this writing, TSLA is sitting pretty at $92 a share. Three weeks ago, it was at a then-record-high of $53.
In light of all the commotion, Tesla is going to make some money and pay back the government. The company announced yesterday it will sell 2.7 million shares (with a value of $229 million given the closing price of $84.84 yesterday) and $450 million in convertible senior notes. All told, Tesla will sell up to $830 million in shares and debt and use the money to pay back its $465-million Department of Energy loan. The DOE has agreed to let Tesla modify the terms of its loan and repay the money early., but the exact timeline of the repayment was not specified. As Tesla CEO Elon Musk put it to Bloomberg earlier this month, "Of all the car companies that got government funding, we got the least, and we're going to pay it off first. That's not bad." Musk will also buy $100 million worth of shares, $45 million in common stock and $55 million to be be "purchased directly from Tesla in a subsequent private placement."
The DOE handed out four loans through the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program: along with Tesla, Ford got $5.9 billion, Nissan got $1.6 billion and Fisker got $529 million. Tesla's press release is available below.
Anyone paying attention to the electric vehicle scene for the last few weeks knows that the stock value of Tesla Motors has been climbing faster than a SpaceX rocket. As of this writing, TSLA is sitting pretty at $92 a share. Three weeks ago, it was at a then-record-high of $53.
In light of all the commotion, Tesla is going to make some money and pay back the government. The company announced yesterday it will sell 2.7 million shares (with a value of $229 million given the closing price of $84.84 yesterday) and $450 million in convertible senior notes. All told, Tesla will sell up to $830 million in shares and debt and use the money to pay back its $465-million Department of Energy loan. The DOE has agreed to let Tesla modify the terms of its loan and repay the money early., but the exact timeline of the repayment was not specified. As Tesla CEO Elon Musk put it to Bloomberg earlier this month, "Of all the car companies that got government funding, we got the least, and we're going to pay it off first. That's not bad." Musk will also buy $100 million worth of shares, $45 million in common stock and $55 million to be be "purchased directly from Tesla in a subsequent private placement."
The DOE handed out four loans through the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program: along with Tesla, Ford got $5.9 billion, Nissan got $1.6 billion and Fisker got $529 million. Tesla's press release is available below.
05-17-2013, 10:09 AM
#198
Senior Moderator
yeah, in terms of money, Apple is not a good company to compare to. Remember how many years it took Apple to become successful. Tesla's loan from the gov't enabled them to start as a big business, immediately. And now, they can pay it back.
05-17-2013, 10:20 AM
#199
Senior Moderator
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-with-proceeds
Paying off its DoE loan entirely removes one stick used by Tesla critics to beat the company: that it is subsidized by your tax dollars and would not otherwise be viable.
05-17-2013, 02:14 PM
#200
Suzuka Master
They still need to work towards not getting any government help soon, though. Subsidizing consumers is enough I think.