jcg878

But your avatar is a tab of E so you're opinions aren't valid

V8 needed, I agree. Say what we will about people who don't have the IQ to see the wisdom of an ultra-efficient V6 vs a run-of-the-mill V8... those people buy cars too and Honda should try to woo them.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

But then just because my brother is a loser, does that make me one too? I couldgive a rip about "related" cars. A Civic is not the same as a RSX. Same goes for an Accord and TL.

jcg878

It doesn't matter if you or I give a 'rip' about related cars... Acura should care if it will increase sales.

I'm sorry that your brother is a loser. You seem ok though.

dom

Your right that they're not the same but it is sometimes important to have these image cars. The M series, AMG, Type R etc. There's no doubt that the 350Z helped bring Nissan back. People go into the showroom to see the 350Z and come out with a Altima. People go into to BMW wanting a M3, see the price and come out with the next best thing, a 330.

I was watching a Chrsysler commercial the other day showing the Pacifa, Crossfire and I think 300M. The end of the commercial had nothing to do with those cars, instead they advertised Dodge SX 2.0 Lease and Finance rates.

DEVO

I hate the arguement that Honda makes a V6 that is as good as most V8 (that's common knowledge) so why make one... I want to see what Honda could do if given the green light to create a V8.

dom

They'll make a Jet Turbine engine for a plane before they make a V8.

Oh wait they already made a Jet-turbine engine.

Seriously how hard can it be for a comapny that makes great engines and a Plane engine for crying out loud to make a V8? And don't start with that "Honda's not that kind of company" crap.

dirk

a rear wheel honda with a v8

AcuraFan

Suddenly we turned a thread about a Lexus into another "wah, Honda made a jet engine but not a V8" thread. Don't we already have enough of those, Domn?

dom

No we're never have enough of those. And I was somewhat joking.

But that does'nt take away from the fact that all of Honda's competitors offer a V8 engine in some forum or another and they should too IMO.

This IS with a V8 is probly unlikely to ever see production especially with the new 3.3L V6 available but the fact that it was even made says alot about Toyota.

AcuraFan

I think the IS430 has a decent chance of being produced. I'm sure Lexus is interested in competing with the M3 and S4. I'm hoping Honda will do the same but they, in no way, need a V8 to do it. IMHO

dom

We may see a V8 in an IS from Lexus but probly not in its current form. A new IS should be available next fall I think with the 3.3L V6 as standard fair.

Depending on how big that car is, they may be better off getting as much power as they can out of the 3.3. I'm sure Toyota can extract at least 300-325HP. With help from Yamaha of course.

kiteboy

Might be easier and cheaper to use the 4.3L since it's already proven. It would be similar to how BMW and MB mix and match bodies and engines. The base engine on the mid-size car is the one-up engine on the smaller car, etc.

A V8 would have more bragging rights (and list price probably) than a tuned V6.

Mokos23

wish lexus had a car starting in the 25K-29K range, like the Tsx, if they did I may have just bought a lexus, but happy with the Tsx.

proaudio22

I don't care if the CTSV has 1000hp, it's fugly as hell. No way you'd catch me in one.

kiteboy

You can probably find a IS300 Sportdesign 6MT in that range - dealers will discount because sales are slow in anticipation of a new model in 05. In Canada, the TSX is $35k and IS is $37k, list.

Another thread mentioned some Lexus dealers are actually selling the IS for $26k USD to match the TSX. Of course you don't get leather, hid and all the other nice options.

1SICKLEX

TTE was the first to do this over a year ago. They also have a supercharges IS 430, making 400hp. All they needed was for Toyota to sign the go ahead. Now Rod Millen has done this project and he is waiting the go ahead tooYup, the "halo" effect. Like AMG and M cars have over C230 hatchbacks and 325 sedans with cloth.

Toyota/Lexus is very concerned with ULEV ratings, thus no turbo IS. The old 4.0 motor was a LEV rating but not ULEV like the 4.3 liter. This is why the 2JZ is history.Lexus has no intentions of going downmarket as their market research has indicated sub 30k cars and 4 cylinder cars do not equate "luxury" to the general public. All ISs since 2001 has had HID standard. Full leather is an option though. Lexus has shown no concern toward the TSX (you can get a new 04 IS for 30k without NAV, they are selling only 15k cars from 30k in 2001) or they would have simply brought their 4-cylinder IS 200 over and sold it for 25k.

nixon

It's that bad for lexus/toyota to make a true sport car, they have to put an over size motor on the IS300, that need a four cylinder an order for them to get some good horsre power out, come on guys think about it.

justinjsw

Lets dream alittle then. What if Honda did have a V8? Which would you buy? A 48K RWD 2005 300HP V8 RL (which kind of looks like the TL), 2004 MB E500, 2004 BMW 545, 2005 GS 430 or 2005 Infiniti M45 ???

1SICKLEX

I can't understand the words coming outta your mouth....
You clearly do not understand the joy of a bigger motor in a smaller car (the route even Audi took with the new S4). I missed the 60s but know all about it (Delorean dumping bigger V-8s in smaller cars) etc.

And concerning true sports cars, there are turbo and super/turbo charges IS and SC 300 manuals for that. But Lexus is clearly not trying to be the sportiest luxury car maker.

1SICKLEX

Do u think an AWD V-8 RL would be 48k when a 2004 FWD, 225hp V-6 model is 44k?

justinjsw

I think so.

Heck a 2004 FWD 270HP V6 is 33K.

1SICKLEX

Which is 3k higher than the old model and that is base. A loaded TL with the A-spec kit is 41k. The reason the TL is still able to hold it's price is parts sharing. THe new RL, I doubt it will share it's parts with the Legend like it does now. There is no platform for it, it would have to be all new.

phile

Rumor is that the new Legend might use the global midsize platform, which the Accord and TL are based on.

justinjsw

Which is about the same price as the first gen TL.

The RL will same parts and tech with the 04 Tl and sit on the largest of the global platforms.

1SICKLEX

Acura better hope not. I could not imagine a GS or LS 430 based off a Camry. A 545 based of a Mini Cooper? They better make a platform specific RL.A loaded TL-S was maybe 33k if you like making dealers rich. TL-P was 27k. A new TL starts at what the old TL-S topped out at.

justinjsw

Did you read what I wrote...I said First gen TL...which means the 96-98 models. A 96-98 3.2TL stickered at 33K. You are quoting the 2nd gen TL when it was reduced in price when they came out in late 98 as a 99MY TL.

acur8ly

iTrader: (1)

That lex looks like someting lifted from the A-TEAM

tsxer.ca

V-8 oh.. gas station starting putting on happy face

Junkster

Actually, the global platform from Honda is pretty versatile and has been praised by most critics for being a great 'general' platform for many vehicles. Such extreme examples, sicklex.

On the other hand, I do wish that Honda would add a dedicated platform for larger vehicles in their future... it's only a matter of time 'till Honda needs bigger and more powerful cars to compete with the other Japanese 3. Instead, Honda stays in the shadows of Toyota and Nissan in terms of truely expanding their future markets.

Junkster, who laughes at the idea of a mini-based 5 series... hehe.

The Mayor

at least honda did something right this time: put a 6-speed manual into the new TLs. now if they can only start modifying the s2000 transaxles to make a rwd TL style sedan to compete against the G35

JRock

The IS-430 has to break below the $40k MSRP price point to compete and win market share in the sports sedan market.

They can certainly do it considering MSRP on an IS300 is $28-29k and an engine upgrade to an existing engine, the T-56 Tremec 6-speed from the Supra MkIV, and the necessary tweaking is EASILY less than $10k even marked up for profit.

Fuck the I.C.E. That crap most people wouldn't want anyway and most who would are people would rather do it themselves anyway. Plus it keeps the price lower.

IS430 starting at $37,550 and optioned up to $41k (maybe $42-43k with navi which I wouldn't care about) with everything in it would be the right price and a sweet sweet car.

1SICKLEX

J-Rock, the engine alone is worth 8-10k more than the 2JZ. An L-tuned IS 300 was 42k loaded, with a bodykit, springs and exhaust.

I think this car would be very expensive, so they won't build it.

JRock

Why is this already-existing NA V8 engine that is fairly easy to place in the IS300's frame $8k-$10k, let alone "$8k-$10k more than a 2JZ block" when you can get high-performance V8 crate motors for most major brands for $4-6k, less for stock blocks? That makes no sense.

If Lexus wants to be that stupid about price they can continue to suffer with a lack of appealing cars in the under $40k price range. That's entirely up to them.

The ES330 is a wimpy, boring piece of fluff that can't compete with a G35 or TL, and the IS300 is under-powered and dated, with a questionable interior in many people's opinion and the sales numbers show it.

If/when Toyota/Lexus can get their act together and either price vehicles properly and/or offer better performing vehicles they will see their market share completely kick ass because they already make top-quality reliable products.

They learned their lesson with the MkIV Supra pricing itself out of the marketplace, so they wouldn't dare do something stupid again and price a car above $40k that simply isn't going to sell enough, like an IS300 no matter what engine is under the hood.

1SICKLEX

I recall Acura the one being discussed all year long by news editors as having to get their shit together. I recall Lexus being the best selling car 4 years in a row with top quality and customer satisfaction. I don't make the engine. That is what I've been told by people who work for LExus. That wimpy, boring car sells year after year and hits it's target market. The IS 300 has been around technically since 1997, I hope 2004 cars can beat it.Like the 300ZX, 3000GT and the ultra slow selling NSX? True. The Supra though is regarded with the GT-R as the greatest Japanese sports car ever. To this day. Something that has not been built since 1998.

JRock

It's funny when you quote things I say and reply to them with only vaguely related comments, most of which I don't disagree with, to make it look like you're proving me wrong when you really aren't. Nice try though.

gavriil

Auto Spies reports that the reason why the new Lexus GS does not look like the LF-S concept is because the LF-S will be the next IS !!!

Lexus LF-S concept from the Tokyo Motor Show here:


http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...hreadid=117552

Sarlacc

hmm, interesting, im sure theyll round it out more, and i bet that body looks better with side mirrors to complete it.

N.O.6speed

tight shit

einsatz

looks like an FX that had an elephant sit on it.

I would hope they keep the IS as the "edgiest" of the Lexus line. I just pray that they give it an interior worthy of a Lexus, and not the tight feeling, cheap plastic, lame ass flat out piece of shit for interiors the current gen has. That and a real engine.

heyitsme

Possibly they meant LS?





BY WILLIAM DIEM
FREE PRESS SPECIAL WRITER

TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Co. will bring its Lexus brand home in August 2005 to battle the Europeans who have been gaining market share in the luxury segment. When the fight begins, it will be Japanese heritage vs. European prestige.

Today, cars sold as Lexus in the United States are sold as Toyotas in Japan. By selling the same vehicles through a separate network of Lexus dealers, Toyota hopes to achieve better profit margins and keep the Europeans from claiming even more of the luxury market.

"The battle is going to be interesting," said Patrick Pelata, the executive vice president at Nissan charged with product strategy. Imports made up only 5.3 percent of the Japanese market through September, but in the luxury segments, the imports have about 40 percent. The BMW 3-series is the No. 2 luxury car in Japan, behind the new Nissan Teana and ahead of the Toyota Celsior, which is the Lexus LS 430 elsewhere in the world.

Concepts shown
At the Tokyo Motor Show in October, Toyota introduced the Lexus brand to Japanese customers with two concept cars: the LF-S, a sleek sedan that will be the next LS 430, and a crossover, the LF-X, that will battle the forthcoming Mercedes-Benz GST. Lexus debuted as a brand in 1989 at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.


The Lexus show cars are especially interesting because they demonstrate a new design initiative for the marque, which Toyota calls L-Finesse. Until now, except for the SC 430 coupe-cabriolet, Lexus designs have been traditional, meaning European. Like Cadillac, Lexus has decided that its future is best served by taking a separate direction rather than mimicking the successful Europeans.

"I was very interested in the Lexus they showed, because they are working on their marque in-depth," said Nissan's Pelata. "It's a show car, but if they manage to keep that direction, it would be interesting. They should produce beautiful new little children."

A new look is a critical part of Toyota's strategy, because in 2005 dealers must convince Japanese customers that a Lexus LS 430 is no longer a Toyota Celsior.

"It will be interesting to see how they do that -- taking the same car they are selling one day as a Toyota and the next day selling it as a Lexus," said Tony Merigold, an analyst specializing in the Japanese market at Global Insights in London. "It will come down to image, service and the advertising package that goes with it."

Social status
There are some signs that Japanese customers will welcome the Lexus brand. Already, some owners of a Toyota Aristo or Altezza in Tokyo replace the Toyota badges with those of Lexus.