J.D. Power: Vehicle Dependability Study News

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Old 03-19-2009, 04:38 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by AznX TL
are you sure that list is recent?
the RSX is under best sport compact........but it hasnt been a production model for 3 years now.
That caught my eye too.
Old 03-19-2009, 05:51 PM
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3 Years

Originally Posted by AznX TL
are you sure that list is recent?
the RSX is under best sport compact........but it hasnt been a production model for 3 years now.
This is a 3 year reliability study so this should be the last time the RSX shows up. This was also the era when the troubled Lexus GS & IS debuted & that is reflected in these results ...
Old 03-19-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by (Cj)
driven yes, owned no

They drive very well (even old Jags and Buicks drove well), but I can't trust that they will be dependable (at least compared to the Japanese brands).
I'm not sure about Jaguar (I've heard they have their fair share of problems as well) but my sister's Lexus ES350 had left some red fluid on the garage floor which I noticed and told her about. Either Toyota's coolant or tranny fluid.... not good. It was fixed under warranty, but it was a problem nonetheless.

And as far as CR being more trustworthy, I've heard they've gotten their fair share of "donations" from auto companies. Who knows.... maybe these companies do their surveys in different parts of the country, where some cars may fare better than others.
Old 03-19-2009, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by (Cj)
Personally, I trust CR more than I trust JD.
Just because it agrees with your dislike of Jaguar and Buick ??

Sounds like something a H/A fanboi would say...

My Ford was more reliable than my Acura
Old 03-19-2009, 06:25 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Just because it agrees with your dislike of Jaguar and Buick ??

Sounds like something a H/A fanboi would say...

My Ford was more reliable than my Acura
I agree, that my Ford was more reliable than my Acura lol, but come on, I doubt Jaguar is more reliable than Lexus. Lexus has some problems, but Jaguar has a history of plagued reliability. The new Jags may be better, but they're are testing 3 year old Jags which were . I owned a mid nineties Buick and it's engine was pretty good, but the interior was crap and fell apart very quickly.
Old 03-20-2009, 02:24 AM
  #126  
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Acura 6th Place in Reliability

Buzz Up! 280 votes By DAN STRUMPF, AP Auto Writer

2009 Jaguar XF-SeriesNEW YORK – Jaguar and Buick surged to the top of J.D. Power and Associates' closely watched vehicle dependability study this year, tying for the No. 1 spot and dethroning Lexus for the first time since the Japanese luxury brand has been a part of the survey.

Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury brand, took the next spot in the study released Thursday, followed by Toyota's namesake brand, then Mercury, Infiniti and Acura.

"Buick and Jaguar both lead the industry in nameplate performance," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power. "In terms of individual model performance, Lexus and Toyota still do very, very well."

The annual study measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Suzuki owners reported the most problems among the 37 brands assessed by J.D. Power.

Despite losing its crown to Jaguar and Buick, Lexus still swept top awards in four segments, while Toyota's namesake brand took five awards. General Motors Corp.'s Buick LaCrosse was J.D. Power's top midsize car, while Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln brand took two awards. Chrysler LLC, which took no segment awards last year, won top honors for its Dodge Caravan in the van segment.

Jaguar jumped from the No. 10 spot in 2008, while Buick leapt from the No. 6 spot. The movement is notable for a study that is fairly consistent from year to year, and the results marked the first time Lexus was not either first or tied for first since it was first included in the study in 1995. Oddes said both Jaguar and Buick have made significant improvements recently.

"We see improvements all over the board with Jaguar," Oddes said, citing fewer reported problems with vehicle exterior, sound system and the overall driving experience. "The improvement at a nameplate level is significant."

Mike O'Driscoll, Jaguar's managing director, said the award marks a huge step forward for Jaguar's image in the U.S., which he acknowledged has suffered recently. He said the company has been working furiously to reinvent itself in recent years.

"The improvements really started with a major investment we made at Jaguar in new technology and a much more intelligent approach to design," he said. "This is really a vindication of that investment and technology."

Oddes also said Buick has taken heed of problems reported in previous J.D. Power studies and made "continuous improvement on their side of things."

Jamie Hresko, GM's vice president of quality, said the win for Buick is a win for GM overall because the company has duplicated the lessons from Buick in all new models.

"I think we still struggle with the perception, that the perception of our product is substandard," he said. "If we continue to attack the markets that we consider will be high volume, which is markets like the Chevrolet Malibu, and we can sell a few hundred thousand of them, the reputation will spread."

Buick has performed at or near the top of the J.D. Power rankings in past years, tying Lexus for first two years ago, but dropping to sixth last year. Hresko expects the company's other brands to do better than past years in the J.D. Power initial quality survey.

Jaguar, which Indian car giant Tata Motors Ltd. bought from Ford in 2007, remains a relatively small-volume brand in the U.S. It sold just 14,000 vehicles here in 2008, while Buick sold 128,000.

Oddes said this year's study was redesigned to exclude routine fixes from a vehicle's list of problems. For example, the study no longer counts tire or windshield wiper replacements as a reportable problem. The intended result is a study that focuses on actual glitches with a vehicle, Oddes said, though it also makes it difficult to make year-over-year comparisons.

"We cleaned up the survey to really try to focus in on things that are truly broken," he said.

The industry average was 170 problems per 100 vehicles, or somewhat less than two problems per vehicle. Last year, the industry average was 206 problems per 100 vehicles, but year-over-year improvements this year are much less pronounced when accounting for the changes in the study's methodology, Oddes said.

The numerical differences between brands that crowd the top are extremely small. For example, Jaguar and Buick owners reported an average of 122 problems per 100 vehicles, while Lexus owners reported 126 and Toyota 129. At the bottom, Suzuki owners reported an average of 263 problems per 100 vehicles.

The most frequently reported problem was wind noise, followed by brake noise, peeling paint, brake vibrations and problems with a vehicle's lights, Oddes said. The problems have been fairly consistent from year to year, he said.

J.D. Power's dependability study surveyed 46,313 original owners of 2006 model-year vehicles in October 2008. The results are watched closely by automakers and are often used in advertising. Owners' opinion of a car after three years can be a major influence on their opinion to buy that brand again.

The firm also releases an initial quality study, which measures problems in the first 90 days of ownership. That study usually comes out in June.
___



AP Auto Writer Tom Krisher contributed to this story from Detroit.
*** Mod Edit - cleaned up post/article ***
Old 03-20-2009, 11:48 AM
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Cj, the CR chart is colorful, but it has a fatal flaw: It doesn't tell you how reliable any brand is.

The JD Power data tells you, for example, that Acura has 146 problems/100 cars. That information is not on the CR chart. All you have are rankings and pecentages above and or below an unspecified average. It doesn't say whether the average is 100, 200, 300, 500 or ??? problems/100 cars. That vital piece of information is missing.

Note that you cannot directly compare the JD Power data and the CR chart because, among other things, they cover different models. The JD power data is for 2006 models only, while the CR chart is an average of 2006 to 2008 models.
Old 03-20-2009, 12:04 PM
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I take both with a grain of salt, really. We know in general which brands are reliable and which aren't. To argue about a brand being a couple places up or down on the list is silly. Statistical data varies, obviously, so if you poll a different set of 5,000 people, their results will probably differ anyway. And who knows how much bias there is at these different publications that may influence results even further.
Old 03-20-2009, 12:07 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Just because it agrees with your dislike of Jaguar and Buick ??

Sounds like something a H/A fanboi would say...

My Ford was more reliable than my Acura

My Buick Regal was a battle tank. Other than regular maintenance I had no problems for over 5 years. It survived commuting into Boston for 4 years, while I was in school. Sure it wasn't the best looking car, but it did the job quite well, had a pretty strong engine, and took all my lead footed driving in stride...

My Acura has been great so far, but I have had little things that needed to be fixed under warranty. If I didn't have the warranty they would have probably cost me and I would have much different feelings...
Old 03-20-2009, 12:13 PM
  #130  
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Question Jag

Originally Posted by (Cj)
Personally, I trust CR more than I trust JD.

Maybe I am blind but I do not see Jaguar on that chart ... ?

Old 03-20-2009, 12:23 PM
  #131  
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Dude, seriously, you've got to learn how to post. Copy and paste of entire web pages (twice now?) is .

Find the relevent bits - post those; not a bunch of menu and link crap.

Also this is NOT about the 2009 Acura's, it is about reliablitly of all Acura's over the past 3 years.

Finally, when posting an article, it strongly recommended that you post a link to the source.
Old 03-20-2009, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvMyTSX
We know in general which brands are reliable and which aren't.
People think they know which brands are reliable and which aren't; but in reality a lot of them are just making assumptions based on rankings or whether a brand is above or below average. Others make invalid generalizations based on outdated experiences with the handful of cars they've owned in the past; i.e., "My car was a lemon, so all cars of that brand are and will be lemons forever."

A common assumption is that high-ranking means reliable and low-ranking means unreliable. Alternatively, people assume above-average means reliable and below-average means unreliable. It doesn't occur to many people that if cars are generally very reliable, which is the case nowadays, even the below-average, lower-ranked brands are reliable. CR hides the problem rates and explicitly encourages this nonsense.

However, even when problem rates are provided, people ignore them to focus on rankings. I'm confident that there are a quite a few people who looked at the JD Power data in this thread but remain oblivious to the fact that the difference between "super-reliable" Toyota and "uber-unreliable" Mercedes Benz is only 0.5 problem/car; i.e., 1.3 vs 1.8 problems/car. "Man, those Mercedes Benz buyers are so stupid," they say.

It doesn't register that the difference between the best and worst brands is only about 1 problem/car. Instead, they believe that cars from brands at the top of the list go for many years without a single problem, while those from brands at the bottom have problems every 3 to 6 months.
Old 03-20-2009, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemike
Someone in the other thread was going on about Honda being more reliable than Toyota despite evidence to the contrary
Consumer Reports has Honda ranked above Toyota for fleet reliability. The experiences of my family and friends have always seemed to correlate better with the CR reliability data than with the JD Power results.
Old 03-22-2009, 04:31 AM
  #134  
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comparing my '94 accord to a 2000 camry V6, the accord has held up much better than said camry accord has 230K on original suspension peices and it sounds a whole not better than the clanking going on with the 2000 camry suspension......with only 140K on it
Old 03-18-2010, 06:58 AM
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Post 2010


J.D. Power and Associates has just released its 2010 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS)... and Porsche, Lincoln and Buick have climbed on the podium (Buick, Jaguar and Lexus occupied the top spots in last year's 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study). The German automaker demonstrated a significant jump in quality (up ten spots) with Ford's brand hot on its heels (up six positions). While Buick dropped down, its score was indicative of improved quality – however, the bar had been raised.

This year's VDS found that several brands that perform well in the firm's dependability study are avoided due to public misperception about reliability. These brands include Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln and Mercury – all having the greatest lags between dependability performance and consumer perception. "Producing vehicles with world-class quality is just part of the battle for automakers; convincing consumers to believe in their quality is equally as important," says a J.D. Power and Associates spokesperson.

The Vehicle Dependability Study is designed to accurately measure problems experienced by original owners of three-year-old (2007 model year) vehicles. This year's study was based on responses from more than 52,000 vehicle owners surveys between October and December of 2009. Scores are based on the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100), with lower scores reflecting higher vehicle quality. The complete J.D. Power press release and charts can be found after the jump and in the gallery below.
Old 03-18-2010, 07:27 AM
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2010 Vehicle Dependability Study Results
Old 03-18-2010, 07:52 AM
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Despite the percieved improvement, Audi and VW are still way below average.
Old 03-18-2010, 11:15 AM
  #138  
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Damn.... I'd really like to get my hands on an upcoming Golf R too. We'll see...
Old 03-18-2010, 01:13 PM
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Reading the winners of the top segments makes me think these people are over 60 who are doing these surveys.

Does Land Rover even care anymore about their reliability?
Old 03-18-2010, 01:26 PM
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JD Power Releases 2010 Vehicle Dependability Survey

Acura goes from 7th place in 2009 (146 problems / vehicle) to 10th place in 2010 (143 problems / vehicle). The improvement is only about 2%, behind of the industry average of about 7% annual improvement in PPV. Of course, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I personally find it hard to believe (even though the data show differently) that Lincoln, Mercury, Ford and Mercedes-Benz *all* rank higher than Acura this year. The JD Power VDS results are always based on a 3-year old vehicle so maybe 2006 was a better year for Acura than 2007.

2009: http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2009043

2010: http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2010034
Old 03-18-2010, 01:29 PM
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Benz...No way; Not possible
Old 03-18-2010, 01:59 PM
  #142  
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Hmm, time to cross shop the solar, out of production monte carlo, and the mustang.
Old 03-18-2010, 02:38 PM
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Agreed. x2 on Mercury and Ford.

It's also a little hard to swallow that Porsche tops the list. Then again, if I could blow $150K on a car, the Panamera Turbo would replace the TL 6MT. Of course, you could buy a *HOUSE* with the difference between a TL and a Panamera Turbo.
Old 03-18-2010, 02:46 PM
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wow Kia up 12 spots, thats a pretty quick turnaround considering their past reputation.
Old 03-18-2010, 05:36 PM
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is that 1 problem every 143 vehicles?

also, this seems way off compared to what consumer reports came back with recently.
Old 03-18-2010, 07:32 PM
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*cough*bullshit*cough*

Jaguar? Riiiggghhhtt.....
Old 03-18-2010, 08:47 PM
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Well. It could be that some car companies really are doing better.

And Acura buyers, having come from Honda or previous Acuras, simply expect more.
Old 03-19-2010, 12:15 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by bigdrewz96TL
wow Kia up 12 spots, thats a pretty quick turnaround considering their past reputation.
Seems about right.

It was about 5-6 years ago that Hyundai started to apply their manufacturing process to Kia plants.
Old 03-19-2010, 08:14 AM
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Read somewhere that the median age of a Buick owner was around 57. Which may explain why the dependability ratings are so high--the cars are not driven very much and slowly at that! Seriously, Buick is starting to make folks sit up and take notice. The new Regal and La Crosse are sharp looking cars and the designers are looking to introduce 6MTs later on.

The brass at GM seems to be figuring things out. Look at how Cadillac is turning its image around.
Old 03-19-2010, 01:43 PM
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weird list
Old 03-17-2011, 09:14 AM
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Post 2011


Lincoln now leads the industry with the most reliable vehicles, according to a closely watched annual survey, marking the 1st time Ford Motor Co.'s premium brand has captured the crown.

Lincoln unseated Porsche in J.D. Power and Associates' 2011 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study released today. Lincoln was followed by Lexus, Jaguar, Porsche, Toyota, Acura, Buick, Mercedes-Benz, Cadillac, Hyundai and Honda.

Overall vehicle dependability continues to improve, though the gains are slowing as automakers conquer traditional mechanical problems but struggle with newer, electronic-based features, Power said.

Power's annual study looks at how well vehicles hold up after 3 years of ownership by measuring how many problems original owners experienced during the past 12 months with 2008 models.

The study looks at 202 problem areas and scores are based on problems reported per 100 vehicles.

The study found import brands still outperform U.S. automakers in long-term dependability despite closing the gap in recent years in a separate survey that measures initial quality.

The industry posted the highest rate of dependability since the study was launched in 1990, with an average of 151 problems reported per 100 vehicles in 2011, down from 155 problems in 2010.

PHP Code:
J.DPower 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study
Nameplate ranking 
-- problems per 100 vehicles
Lincoln    101
Lexus    109
Jaguar    112
Porsche    114
Toyota    122
Acura    123
Buick    125
Mercedes
-Benz    128
Cadillac    130
Hyundai    132
Honda    139
Ford    140
Saab    146
Infiniti    151
Industry average    151
Smart    152
Chevrolet    156
Volvo    156
Subaru    157
Kia    160
Audi    161
BMW    164
Scion    166
Ram    173
Mazda    181
Nissan    183
GMC    184
Mitsubishi    186
Suzuki    190
Volkswagen    191
Chrysler    202
Dodge    206
Land Rover    212
Jeep    214
Mini    221 
Gains slow

In recent years, between 2009 and 2011, automakers have improved dependability at an annual rate of 6%. That is lower than the 8% annual improvement rate of the last decade, Power said.

Cars made by Detroit automakers are more dependable than those made by import brands. But the light trucks, vans, SUVs and crossovers sold by Asian and European automakers have fewer problems than domestic models, the study said.

"The renaissance by the domestics was largely led by cars – like mid-size and the large vehicles that were very strong," said David Sargent, vice president of global vehicle research at J.D. Power, citing the Ford Fusion, Mustang, and Taurus as well as the Buick Lucerne. "These were all 1st or 2nd in their segments."

The imports continue to lead in light truck dependability with small crossovers, including the Honda CR-V, Subaru Forester and Toyota RAV4, and in the mid-size truck segment with the Toyota 4Runner, Hyundai Sante Fe, BMW X3 and the Lexus RX and GX, Sargent said

Lincoln placed No. 2 last year. Lexus moved into 2nd place in the 2011 study, up from 4th a year earlier. Jaguar was the 3rd highest rated, catapulting up from below average in 2010.

Buick, Cadillac and Ford were all rated above average with fewer than 151 problems per 100 vehicles. 6 Asian brands – Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Hyundai, Honda and Infiniti – were also above average.

The Porsche 911 sports car had the fewest problems in the industry, with 68 per 100 vehicles.

BMW's Mini brand finished at the bottom with 221 problems per 100 vehicles. Jeep, Land Rover, Dodge and Chrysler also had more than 200 problems per 100 models surveyed.

High-tech, electronics new problem area

Power said scores are being dragged down by increased problems with electrical features such as audio, entertainment and navigation systems, as well as safety features such as tire pressure monitoring systems.

In contrast, automakers have made improvements in the long-term durability of vehicle interiors, engines and transmissions, as well as steering and braking.

Sargent said problems with electronics and high-technology features primarily affected premium brands – which tend to be the 1st to adopt such features.

"As manufacturers add new features and technologies to satisfy customer demand and new legislation, they face the potential for introducing new problems,"
he said.

The problems are not massive, "but it is significant in the context that the industry only improves a few percentage points each year," Sargent said.

"I don't say 50% of all cars have these problems. The incident of any problem is very low but you don't need too many people to have a problem for it to affect scores."

Sargent said problematic electronic systems included early versions of BMW's iDrive that controls navigation, climate, entertainment and other vehicle settings, as well as bugs that plagued the last generation of the Mercedes-Benz E-class.

Systems like Ford's Sync are too new to have been included in this year's dependability study.

"This will be a pervasive issue in the industry and the differentiation will come with how they introduce (new systems) and how easy it is for the owner to use," Sargent said.

Safety-related technology that posed problems include tire-pressure monitoring devices that became federally mandated for all cars starting with the 2008 model year.

"About 4% of consumers reported problems - 4 problems per 100 - and generally that was due to a false positive coming on when there wasn't a problem,"
Sargent said.

According to Power, dependability affects not only brand image and loyalty but whether a consumer takes the vehicle to a dealer for paid repair work.

The survey found 76% of owners who experienced no problems with their vehicles said they "definitely will" return to the dealer for paid service, but that number fell to 42% for owners who had 6 or more problems.

Majority of brands improved


In the 2011 study, 22 out of 32 brands surveyed improved their scores from last year. Smart wasn't in the 2010 study and J.D. Power listed Dodge and Ram as separate brands.

Jaguar was the most improved brand followed by Suzuki, Land Rover, Scion and Volkswagen.

Sargent said Jaguar was tied for 1st 2 years ago, but in 2010 the brand skidded to 23rd out of 36 with a number of owners reporting problems. Sargent said J.D. Power simply "couldn't put our finger," on what caused last year's decline.

He attributes Jaguar's improvement to quality systems implemented while it was under Ford Motor ownership. Ford sold the brand in 2008 to India's Tata Motors Ltd.

Lincoln's jump from second in 2010 reflects "a lot of years of improvement," said Sargent. "They have been working hard on this for 10 years."

Lincoln's MKZ sedan, MKX crossover and the Navigator SUV all performed well, he said. For the 2008 model year, Lincoln also marketed the LT pickup and venerable Town Car sedan.

The Mini brand was last, falling from 32nd out of 36 in 2010, because of a number of problems with the Cooper. The biggest problem areas were interior controls and seats which owners find "difficult to operate," rather than mechanical quality, said Sargent.

Toyota's recent recalls did not affect the 2008 model-year study.

Segment winners


Toyota Motor Corp. did better than any other automaker for reliability awards in individual model segments.

Its 7 model awards were for the Lexus RX, Scion xB, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Prius, Toyota Sienna, Toyota Tacoma and Toyota Tundra.

Ford Motor received 4 segment awards for the Ford Fusion, Ford Mustang, Lincoln MKZ and Lincoln Navigator.

General Motors got top models in the segment awards for the Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, and Chevrolet Tahoe.

Honda Motor Co. also had 3 winners with the Acura RL, Honda CR-V and Honda Fit.

Other segment leaders were the BMW X3, Mazda MX-5 Miata, and Mercedes-Benz CLK.
Old 03-17-2011, 09:57 AM
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Saab better than average? Land Rover not at the bottom? BMW and Audi worse than average? Mini the worst of the bunch? The numbers have certainly changed.
Old 03-17-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by biker
Saab better than average? Land Rover not at the bottom? BMW and Audi worse than average? Mini the worst of the bunch? The numbers have certainly changed.
Land Rover and Saab are surprising. I would think LR would be the worst of all. But, as far as BMW and Audi are concerned...have they ever NOT been worse than average?
Mini = BMW so it kind of figures...sadly.
Old 03-17-2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pttl
But, as far as BMW and Audi are concerned...have they ever NOT been worse than average?
Mini = BMW so it kind of figures...sadly.
Both BMW and Audi were above average two years ago. Mini was way above average.
Old 03-21-2011, 04:13 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by TSX69
[FONT="Georgia"]
The Porsche 911 sports car had the fewest problems in the industry, with 68 per 100 vehicles.
Old 03-25-2011, 08:10 PM
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Porsche did well but the caveat is their comparatively low production numbers compared to other brands with similar reliability ratings. IMHO, Mercedes Benz progress IS notable though.
Old 02-08-2012, 07:49 AM
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Thumbs up Rl #1


Not quite, according to J.D. Power and Associates' 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study, but Acura holds its own compared to the industry overall.

J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study measures problems experienced by owners during the 3rd year of ownership, and in the 2011 results Lexus ranked 2nd (behind Lincoln) out of 34 brands with 109 problems per 100 vehicles. Acura came in 6th with 123 problems, well below the industry average of 151. Luxury brands that had more problems than the industry average included Audi, BMW, Land Rover and Volvo.

Lexus and Acura vehicles were among the best in different luxury categories. The Lexus ES 350 ranked 2nd among entry premium cars, and the Acura TL and TSX tied for 3rd. The Acura RL was the most reliable midsize premium car, and the Lexus GS was 3rd in that category. The Lexus RX and GX 470 were the 2 most reliable midsize premium SUVs.

Last edited by TSX69; 02-08-2012 at 07:51 AM.
Old 02-08-2012, 10:27 AM
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^ that does nothing for RL sales.
Old 02-08-2012, 10:30 AM
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Should the RL sample size even count?
Old 02-08-2012, 05:31 PM
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Well, all 5 RL owners should be happy


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