Hyundai: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #281  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
http://wot.motortrend.com/hyundai-re...#axzz2M7dusxkB

Hyundai isn’t have the best news day. It has settled a suit regarding mileage claims, and expanded a recall on the Veloster hatchback. The recall, which has to do with the glass panels on the optional panoramic moonroof potentially breaking, now includes an additional 5832 2012 Velosters.
This is not the first time Hyundai has issued a recall for these parts on the Veloster – in December, the automaker issued the same recall for 13,500 vehicles; the new recall is for additional affected cars. Hyundai states that the new total of recalled Velosters is around 19,600 vehicles.
Unfortunately, the expanded recall isn’t the only Hyundai-related item in the news today. According to The Detroit News, the automaker has agreed to settle its California suit against overstated fuel economy numbers. On top of the reparations Hyundai (and Kia) has already paid owners, it will give further compensation to those who own cars featured in the “4 for 40 mpg” advertising campaign. Featured cars are the Elantra, Accent, Veloster, and Sonata Hybrid.
The suit, which was filed last July, stated that “illegal advertisements caused tens of thousands of California drivers to purchase or lease 2011 and 2012 Elantras and consequently incur unexpected fuel costs,” says The Detroit News. Payments will be made by Hyundai in a lump sum and will come from outside of the $400 million already set aside to reimburse owners; Hyundai will also repay non-original owners, although, they will only receive half as much compensation.

Hmmm...was the extra profit from selling more cars enough to compensate these reimbursements to owners? Also, this only applies to California, I wonder if other states have done the same already.
Old 10-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #282  
_
 
AZuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,692
Received 3,097 Likes on 1,867 Posts
Still waiting for Hyundai to launch a luxury brand.


Hyundai To Launch Performance Sub-Brand

Hyundai will use its return to WRC in 2014 to help promote a new performance sub-brand the Korean automaker has in the works. The focus will initially be on the European market, where WRC is primarily run, but eventually we could see some of the go-fast Hyundais launched under the performance sub-brand arrive on U.S. soil.

The information was revealed by Michel Nandan, Hyundai’s team principal for its WRC team, during a recent interview with Drive. Nandan said the launch of the performance sub-brand was at least a year away still, and that the first model to be launched under it would likely be based on the i20 subcompact sold overseas.

Just like the i20 WRC car currently in testing, the Hyundai performance sub-brand’s version of the i20 would likely come fitted with a turbocharged engine and all-wheel drive. More models would likely follow, possibly based on the Veloster Turbo and Genesis Coupe sold locally. Previously, it’s been reported that Hyundai was considering a sporty Elantra GT Turbo.

Hyundai is serious about improving its sporting credentials, even going so far to establish its own Nürburgring test facility. The return to WRC is also aimed at improving the engineering of Hyundai’s road cars but also to help attract the attention of younger buyers.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ance-sub-brand
Old 11-02-2013, 11:37 AM
  #283  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Hyundia decline in emerging markets is just begining when enters with diesel. Honda is now building more factories in emerging markets than Hyundai. Acura brand is coming to Russia. Lack of diesel and lack of factories big hinderance for Honda expansion.
http://www.rushlane.com/hyundai-indi...s-1294162.html
Hyundai India car sales decline 14% for Oct 2013
India’s second largest car manufacturer, and largest car exporter, has revealed their sales report for the month of October 2013. The South Korean brand sold a total of 50,212 units in October 2013, which is a considerable drop as compared to cars sold in Oct 2012
Honda is going to sell 5 million motor bikes in India alone. if Bike price is 1/5 of Car. it practically translates into 1 millon auto sales.
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...les-same-month
Old 11-02-2013, 12:58 PM
  #284  
אני עומד עם ישראל
 
Hapa DC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 9,860
Received 810 Likes on 522 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Honda is going to sell 5 million motor bikes in India alone. if Bike price is 1/5 of Car. it practically translates into 1 millon auto sales.http://articles.economictimes.indiat...les-same-month
If bike sale is bike sale not auto sale cannot count as auto sale only bike sale.
The following 2 users liked this post by Hapa DC5:
Sly Raskal (11-03-2013), ttribe (11-02-2013)
Old 11-02-2013, 09:51 PM
  #285  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by Hapa DC5
If bike sale is bike sale not auto sale cannot count as auto sale only bike sale.
It is directly contributing to Honda profits. so honda has more money to build production capacity and R&D. see the large Honda Fit plant in Mexico.

Already Honda is now in third shift in india. by middle of next year it will impacting Hyundai in big way. Once Hyundai is done in India. it is pretty much done else where. No profits. there will be no money for RWD/V8 platforms or giving deep discounts in NA market.
http://www.cartrade.com/car-bike-new...rt-122175.html
Since reports of Honda City diesel launch have surfaced, analysts and experts have started discussing its prospects. Experts believe that Honda City has the capability of becoming ae game changer in India
Hyundai dont have the kind of dominance like VW group has in China and EU to offset weakness in NA/India market.

Honda technology is on the roll.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/23788766/m...ivic-16-i-dtec
Old 11-03-2013, 12:25 AM
  #286  
אני עומד עם ישראל
 
Hapa DC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 9,860
Received 810 Likes on 522 Posts
bike sale cannot count as auto sale.

bike sale cannot translate as auto sale.

bike sale cannot transform into auto sale.

bike sale cannot wish to be auto sale.

post-op auto sale still born bike sale no matter how much bike sale wants to be auto sale.

bike sale living as auto sale will still have to be honest with those who auto sale has relationship with and say auto sale is actually a bike sale

passable auto sale that is actually bike sale still not auto sale.

bike sale that legally changes identity as auto sale still in bike sale category.

bike sale is bike sale not auto sale even with extra capacity
The following 2 users liked this post by Hapa DC5:
Sly Raskal (11-03-2013), ttribe (11-03-2013)
Old 11-03-2013, 12:49 AM
  #287  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
i didnot say bike sale is auto sale. it is providing valuable profits to honda. which enable honda to invest alot more on R&D and factory construction around the world without decreasing profits and hence stock price and credit ratings.
why dont Hyundai-Kia start separate dealership network like Acura. why dont they increase capacity in NA.
the answer is simply they need to lower expenses to maintain profits.

Honda is on roll.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/honda-fi...-the-year.html
Old 11-03-2013, 09:21 AM
  #288  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 52
Posts: 13,494
Received 1,568 Likes on 985 Posts
Hyundai was a manufacturing conglomerate before their breakup, you simple man. If you used that silly Honda argument, Hyundai would have been able to smother Honda in R&D.

Do you think companies take profits from shipping and elevators and put it into cars?

What the hell is the matter with you?
The following users liked this post:
Sly Raskal (11-03-2013)
Old 11-03-2013, 11:40 AM
  #289  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
so what are Mitsubishi Corporation owners of MMC and MHI, , Fuji Heavy industries (owners of Subaru having faster growth than Kia-Hyundai) any different than Hyundai.

Shipping, Steel, Oil, banking and construction are relatively low tech and labor intensive business once Chinese entered into this the profits are simply not there for higher priced labor. thats why the biggest beneficiary of Iraqi Oil is PetroChina.

Honda has brand equity by selling millions of bikes to 1.3b consumers in India. when these people become middle class there first choice will be Honda. thats why Honda is investing big in India. Honda will follow them all the way to Middleast with its large imported labor.
.


http://www.arabnews.com/news/471561
WITH a total area of more than 30,000 square meters and more than 100 working bays, the new Honda Service & Parts Center on Kilo 10, Makkah Road, Jeddah, is one of the largest facilities in the region

These things matter now more than anything else. as the higher Honda Profits in emerging markets the higher R&D spending for Honda and better products for NA market.
Old 11-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #290  
_
 
AZuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,692
Received 3,097 Likes on 1,867 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
i didnot say bike sale is auto sale. it is providing valuable profits to honda.
Maybe, but Hyundai's net profit is over 2x more than Honda's net profit.

Hyundai 2012 net profit: US $8.4 billion
Honda 2012 net profit: ¥367.149 billion (Yen), or approx. US $3.7 billion
Old 11-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #291  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by AZuser
Maybe, but Hyundai's net profit is over 2x more than Honda's net profit.

Hyundai 2012 net profit: US $8.4 billion
Honda 2012 net profit: ¥367.149 billion (Yen), or approx. US $3.7 billion
I know all those things. Honda simply have more expenses as it is enhancing production and R&D. so less profits and 2012 has still have the lingering efffect of 2011 Earth quake in Japan and Floods.
Hyundai still has China. but NA operations not performing well. so it is not expected that they can afford a separate premium brand.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...na-brazil.html
Hyundai’s incentives in the U.S. surged 47 percent in the first nine months of this year, compared with a 2.2 percent decline at Toyota and the market average of a 2.4 percent increase, according to Autodata Corp
Old 11-03-2013, 01:35 PM
  #292  
אני עומד עם ישראל
 
Hapa DC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 9,860
Received 810 Likes on 522 Posts
You fail at Honda PR spin. Honda not impressed with lackluster effort at make glorious success.

Back to Honda nut riding school, stick with side mirror aerodynamic is superior argument, make more sense to more glorious success.

Also vent design work more wonderful than Hyundai's.

All logical argument, fallacy null and void with bike sale is auto sale.
Old 11-06-2013, 12:31 AM
  #293  
_
 
AZuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,692
Received 3,097 Likes on 1,867 Posts
Hyundai Announces New Crate Engine Program for 3.8-liter V6 and 2.0-liter Turbo Engines at 2013 SEMA Show

Range of Engine Options start at an Ultra-low $4,500

Both Hyundai Engines offer Significant Crate Engine Program Discounts

LAS VEGAS, Nov. 5, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Hyundai today announced the creation of a new factory crate engine program at the 2013 SEMA Show in Las Vegas. Under the program, the Lambda 3.8-liter, direct-injected V6 and Theta 2.0-liter, turbocharged 4-cylinder engines will be offered to aftermarket tuners at a significantly lower cost than an equivalent replacement engine. The new engine program begins availability in December 2013.

The 2.0-liter 4-cylinder will be available in two engine configurations: a turbo-ready version priced at $4,500, and a turbo-equipped version, which includes turbocharger, intercooler, and intake air ducting, priced at $6,000. The turbo-ready version was developed specifically for tuners planning more aggressive, aftermarket-based turbocharging solutions, eliminating the costs associated with redundant turbocharging components. The 3.8-liter direct-injected V6 will be offered at $9,000.

Both 2.0- and 3.8-liter crate engines include intake manifolds, ignition coils, injectors, and fuel delivery assemblies. The cost advantages of the crate engine program are achieved via distribution system efficiencies and sub-assembly packaging when compared with the long block replacement engine and its individual sub-assembly cost.

"As more Genesis Coupes have entered the pre-owned enthusiast market since its 2009 launch, we've witnessed strong interest in leveraging the low cost potential of this rear-drive platform and its powertrains for the tuner market and motorsports," said John Krafcik, president and CEO, Hyundai Motor America. "Now, with our new crate engine program, Hyundai is making it more affordable for these same enthusiasts to modify their Genesis Coupe, or perhaps inject some high-value horsepower into other platforms."

These 2.0- and 3.8-liter Hyundai engines represent the powertrain options for the popular rear-drive Genesis Coupe, a favorite in the performance tuner community. In recent years, tuners have proven the scalable power gains possible from these engines with a variety of modifications. The full spectrum of modifications spans from the common, like intake and exhaust, to the most advanced, involving internal engineering of pistons, valves, rods and cranks.


At a rock-bottom $4,500, the Hyundai 2.0-liter turbo-ready engine represents an extremely attractive proposition for standardized spec-engine development, such as those developed for spec-based racing series. For comparison, the Ford 2.0-liter EcoBoost 4-cylinder engine with similar factory output characteristics has an MSRP of $8,000. Hyundai crate engine kits will be sold only through authorized Hyundai dealerships. These engines are covered by Hyundai's 12-month/12,000 mile replacement parts warranty policies and do not fall under the 10-year/100,000 powertrain warranty that applies to new Hyundai vehicles.

At the SEMA show Hyundai announcement, famed tuner Bisi Ezerioha, creator of the 1,000-horsepower Bisimoto Genesis Coupe, was thrilled to be the first tuner to take advantage of Hyundai's new crate engine program, saying, "Hyundai makes impressively robust engines throughout its line-up, so the addition of this crate engine program is sure to raise tuner enthusiasm for radical Hyundai modifications even more."
Old 11-06-2013, 12:42 AM
  #294  
Moderator
 
Costco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 29,869
Received 3,489 Likes on 2,089 Posts
whoa... Bisi made a 1,000 hp GC?! I thought he was already crazy for venturing into Porsche.

Platform might be pretty legit. I always thought the 2.0T in the GC was similar to the Evo X/Ralliart engine?? I know the stock block can't handle anywhere near that...
Old 11-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #295  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
Originally Posted by Costco
whoa... Bisi made a 1,000 hp GC?! I thought he was already crazy for venturing into Porsche.

Platform might be pretty legit. I always thought the 2.0T in the GC was similar to the Evo X/Ralliart engine?? I know the stock block can't handle anywhere near that...
There's partnership between Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Chrysler (I believe) for making engines together.

http://free-mitsubishi-manuals.blogs...and-their.html
The following users liked this post:
Costco (11-16-2013)
Old 11-13-2013, 10:44 PM
  #296  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
but NA operations not performing well. so it is not expected that they can afford a separate premium brand.
Hyundai can afford it - but it would just be stupid considering how the Japanese have all pretty much failed to compete head to head with the Germans (well, MB and BMW).

Otoh, Honda abandoned their plans for a RWD platform/V8 powerplant (as did Ford).
The following users liked this post:
NSXNEXT (11-14-2013)
Old 11-14-2013, 11:58 PM
  #297  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by YEH
Hyundai can afford it - but it would just be stupid considering how the Japanese have all pretty much failed to compete head to head with the Germans (well, MB and BMW).

Otoh, Honda abandoned their plans for a RWD platform/V8 powerplant (as did Ford).
V8 makes little sense for Honda unless it has v8 global SUV along with truck/bus business.
How exactly has Japanese failed in premium segment? . Japanese vehicles have higher resale value. It forced Germans to offer more options. Free maintainance etc. MDX and RDX with single engine outsell multi engine option X3/X5.
It is easy to predict another stagnating month for kia/Hyundai in NA market. They don't even have money for new factories let alone premium brand.
Old 11-15-2013, 07:36 AM
  #298  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 52
Posts: 13,494
Received 1,568 Likes on 985 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
They don't even have money for new factories let alone premium brand.
Kia just built a new factory in Georgia four years ago.
Old 11-15-2013, 08:38 AM
  #299  
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (2)
 
NSXNEXT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: where the weather suits my clothes
Age: 55
Posts: 27,921
Received 1,080 Likes on 661 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
They don't even have money for new factories let alone premium brand.


It's called learning from the mistakes of others.
Old 11-15-2013, 04:33 PM
  #300  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
V8 makes little sense for Honda unless it has v8 global SUV along with truck/bus business.
How exactly has Japanese failed in premium segment? . Japanese vehicles have higher resale value. It forced Germans to offer more options. Free maintainance etc. MDX and RDX with single engine outsell multi engine option X3/X5.
It is easy to predict another stagnating month for kia/Hyundai in NA market. They don't even have money for new factories let alone premium brand.
Then why did Honda have plans for a RWD architecture + V8 (in order to move up to Tier 1 luxury) before they gave it up (deciding that sales would not recover the investment) - as did Ford w/ Lincoln?

Hyundai has more $$ than Honda - and they've been building new factories in China and Brazil.

And likely, they are going to make up for their mistake in not planning for another NA plant sooner with a new plant in Mexico.

The X3 and X5 are more expensive than the RDX and MDX (being RWD based rather than FWD) and BMW has fatter profit margins.

There's a reason why Acura's growth has been in CUVs while sales of their sedans have been flagging - the market is much more accepting of FWD-based CUVs since CUVs generally aren't meant to be sporty and the majority of buyers opt for AWD (same reason why Audi, Lincoln and Lexus see CUVs as their main growth driver).

Last edited by YEH; 11-15-2013 at 04:36 PM.
Old 11-15-2013, 06:13 PM
  #301  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
RWD /V8 is not tier one.
Honda is not blind not to see world wide Toyota SUV and truck sales.
Honda is also building factories in emerging world.
Hyundai/kia will have big problem in NA market. Sales are already stagnating and that without new honda factory in Mexico coming online.
X3/X5 also has 4 year maintainance, 8 speed auto, forced induction, run flat tires as standard, X5 has double wishbone front suspension ,ventilated rear brakes, rear window washer, power folding mirrors etc. A lot more options and colors.
All those things make even standard product expensive.
Old 11-15-2013, 06:27 PM
  #302  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
I don't think Hyundai/Kia will run into much trouble in NA. Their products have been vastly improved over the past decade. They are the 6th largest car maker in the world. Most importantly, they are also blessed with extremely cheap labor in Korea (though this is gradually changing). This is why they can keep their costs so low.
Old 11-15-2013, 06:29 PM
  #303  
Team Owner
 
oonowindoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 23,362
Received 4,273 Likes on 3,050 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
RWD /V8 is not tier one.
Honda is not blind not to see world wide Toyota SUV and truck sales.
Honda is also building factories in emerging world.
Hyundai/kia will have big problem in NA market. Sales are already stagnating and that without new honda factory in Mexico coming online.
X3/X5 also has 4 year maintainance, 8 speed auto, forced induction, run flat tires as standard, X5 has double wishbone front suspension ,ventilated rear brakes, rear window washer, power folding mirrors etc. A lot more options and colors.
All those things make even standard product expensive.
Dude... Seriously???
Old 11-15-2013, 06:33 PM
  #304  
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
 
JS + XES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Socal
Age: 39
Posts: 20,301
Received 2,603 Likes on 1,571 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou
I don't think Hyundai/Kia will run into much trouble in NA. Their products have been vastly improved over the past decade. They are the 6th largest car maker in the world. Most importantly, they are also blessed with extremely cheap labor in Korea (though this is gradually changing). This is why they can keep their costs so low.
Where do you get this?

Do you have any idea how stinge Union in Korea for Hyundai/Kia is?
Old 11-15-2013, 06:58 PM
  #305  
Moderator
 
ttribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 15,270
Received 5,884 Likes on 2,899 Posts
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
RWD /V8 is not tier one.
Honda is not blind not to see world wide Toyota SUV and truck sales.
Honda is also building factories in emerging world.
Hyundai/kia will have big problem in NA market. Sales are already stagnating and that without new honda factory in Mexico coming online.
X3/X5 also has 4 year maintainance, 8 speed auto, forced induction, run flat tires as standard, X5 has double wishbone front suspension ,ventilated rear brakes, rear window washer, power folding mirrors etc. A lot more options and colors.
All those things make even standard product expensive.
Old 11-15-2013, 08:26 PM
  #306  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou
I don't think Hyundai/Kia will run into much trouble in NA. Their products have been vastly improved over the past decade. They are the 6th largest car maker in the world. Most importantly, they are also blessed with extremely cheap labor in Korea (though this is gradually changing). This is why they can keep their costs so low.
Kia/Hyundi are already in trouble in NA operations. They have offered longer warranties. that will crimp future profits. but biggest think is they have now too many offerings. They have no investments to dramatically increase capacity incase there is sales surge opportunity.

Kia/Hyundi combined sells are less than Honda/Acura but offering almost 70% more vehicles. I am not even going into various RWD/V8/transmissions.
for examle Kia Rio has both sedan and hatch back similar to Accent.
when Honda launches its City sedan. it will further decrease sales volume to Hyundai group. era of Honda with new Hybrids/CVT/Earthdream engines accros the line up is begining.

cheap labor?
Honda is robotics.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201...ll-production/
The technologies and know-how we establish at the Yorii plant will be transferred to new plants in Mexico, China and other locations to be built in the future,” Honda President Takanobu Ito said in a speech Thursday.

The Yorii plant is highly automated, with robots doing much of the work, such as attaching windows, sheet metal and tires.
Old 11-16-2013, 12:33 PM
  #307  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou
I don't think Hyundai/Kia will run into much trouble in NA. Their products have been vastly improved over the past decade. They are the 6th largest car maker in the world. Most importantly, they are also blessed with extremely cheap labor in Korea (though this is gradually changing). This is why they can keep their costs so low.
Actually, labor costs for Hyundai is a good bit higher than it is in the US - the typical Hyundai worker in Ulsan earns $88,600 (the high cost of labor is the same reason why GM is moving production from Korea to Spain).

On top of that, some of the plants in Ulsan are old and outdated and so it takes twice as long to assemble a car in Korea than in the US - so the cost per unit is even higher.
Old 11-16-2013, 01:09 PM
  #308  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
RWD /V8 is not tier one.
Honda is not blind not to see world wide Toyota SUV and truck sales.
Honda is also building factories in emerging world.
Hyundai/kia will have big problem in NA market. Sales are already stagnating and that without new honda factory in Mexico coming online.
While RWD+V8 doesn't guarantee tier 1, RWD always command higher prices when comparing apples to apples.

Audi's FWD sedans are cheaper than the RWD sedans of not only its German competition, but also the Japanese as well - and Audi does not offer the FWD variants of its higher end sedans, the A7 and A8, in the US (and there is indication that the next gen A8 may revert to a RWD platform).

Lexus' FWD offerings, the essentially full-size ES and the midsize RX CUV are priced along with the compact segment.

Same goes for the Lincoln with the MKZ (a midsize priced like a compact).

Infiniti regards the smaller RWD QX70 (FX) to be higher on its hierarchy than the larger FWD QX60 (JX).

Cadillac does the same when it comes to the smaller RWD new CTS and the FWD XTS.

The Equus gets included in comparisons with the flagship sedans (S Class, 7 Series, etc.) whereas the RLX does not.

Acura tries to have it both ways by saying the RLX competes in the midsize segment while having the interior room of a full-size; funny how Acura has 2-3 models that competes in the midsize segment (TSX, TL and RLX) and 2-3 models that compete in the compact segment (ILX, TSX and TL), but that is a byproduct of being FWD-based.

The ILX is a true compact size-wise but is most commonly seen as a sub-entry level competitor (below the class comprising of the 3 Series, C Class, A4, ATS, etc.) and is mostly compared to the Buick Verano.

The RLX is mostly compared to the likes of the XTS and MKS.

Hyundai has made a big mistake in not bringing another NA factory online - the new Sonata will sell well, but that will mean that Hyundai will have to cut Elantra production in order to sell more Sonatas.

But worldwide, Hyundai is continuing to outpace Honda - not only outselling Honda in China, India, Russia and Brazil, but increasing its lead (as well as in Europe and Australia).

Honda relies on the US market significantly more so than Hyundai - which has its positive and negatives.



Kia/Hyundi are already in trouble in NA operations. They have offered longer warranties. that will crimp future profits. but biggest think is they have now too many offerings. They have no investments to dramatically increase capacity incase there is sales surge opportunity.
H/K has offered a longer warranty for years now and it has not put a crimp on profits.

For 2011 and 2012, Hyundai had the 2nd highest margins in the industry next to BMW (will see a drop for 2013).

What's putting a crimp on Hyundai's margins are the rising valuation of the Won and increased labor costs in Korea.


Kia/Hyundi combined sells are less than Honda/Acura but offering almost 70% more vehicles.
H/K offers essentially the same types of vehicles in the same classes.

Sonata and Optima sales would likely be essentially the same whether they built one or the other and are capped by production constraints in NA (for instance, Toyota can build more Camrys at its Lexington, KY plant than Hyundai and Kia can build both the Sonata and Optima) and then there's Subaru building more Camrys for Toyota (for the time being).

What's holding H/K sales back is the limited CUV offering compounded by capacity constraints.

Kia builds the Santa Fe Sport for Hyundai at its GA plant which is not nearly enough for demand and also crimps on Sorento production.

Hyundai also has a limited capacity for building the larger SF in Korea and Kia needs a larger CUV.

Neither the Tucson or Sportage sell particularly well in the US but part of the reason is that they are big sellers in other markets (Europe, Australia, etc.) - so the US gets a smaller allotment.

Are Hyundai and Kia perfect? By no means.

But the biggest hindrance to US sales growth is the lack of capacity.

They need a 3rd NA plant ASAP (so that the Santa Fe and Sorento can get their own plant - which would free up production for Elantra, Sonata and Optima and then Kia can add production of the Forte).


cheap labor?
Honda is robotics.
Hyundai does so as well, but a its newer and non-unionized plants.

Honda, like Toyota and Nissan, have some older plants in Japan and also have to keep a certain no. of workers employed.

Last edited by YEH; 11-16-2013 at 01:11 PM.
Old 11-16-2013, 01:22 PM
  #309  
אני עומד עם ישראל
 
Hapa DC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Posts: 9,860
Received 810 Likes on 522 Posts
Fuck this is gonna turn into a battle of fanboy/girl fobs by epic proportions.
The following users liked this post:
Costco (11-16-2013)
Old 11-16-2013, 02:42 PM
  #310  
Fahrvergnügen'd
 
charliemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maryland
Age: 52
Posts: 13,494
Received 1,568 Likes on 985 Posts
Originally Posted by Hapa DC5
Fuck this is gonna turn into a battle of fanboy/girl fobs by epic proportions.
Every fucking Hyundai thread does ... It's infuriating.
The following users liked this post:
Costco (11-16-2013)
Old 11-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #311  
_
 
AZuser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,692
Received 3,097 Likes on 1,867 Posts
Tesla Ranked Incredible, Hyundai & Domestics Lead
The 2013 Total Value Awards

For immediate release - Thursday, November 14, 2013

San Diego – Strategic Vision has released the results of its 18th annual and comprehensive Total Value IndexTM (TVI) study. "Value is absolutely not cheap; that's why you have incredibly performing models like Tesla Model S and its owners ranking it as one of the best Valued cars in America," explains Darrel Edwards, Ph.D. Executive Chairman and Founder of Strategic Vision.

Strategic Vision's study of over 45,952 new car buyers examined the quality of the buyer's complete ownership experience and adds the customer's assessment of economic consequences from two perspectives: (1) Immediate – or what is influential today (e.g. total down payment including drive-off costs, warranty costs, special incentive programs, etc.), and (2) Expected – what they believe the costs that emerge over time will be (e.g. expected Reliability, expected Durability, Resale Value, Durability, Fuel Economy, etc.).

Hyundai Motor Corporation was for the first time in the study's 18-year history the Total Value leader among US industry automotive corporations. Hyundai Equus is both the Luxury Car leader and had the highest TVI score in the industry.



Hyundai also produced segment winners with Sonata, Genesis Coupe and Elantra.




Domestic manufacturers had the most models as Total Value segment leaders such as: Chevrolet Spark, Cruze, Volt and Traverse, and with Ford's Fiesta Sedan, Fusion, Focus Hatchback, Taurus, Explorer and Lincoln Navigator, as well as others. But still, imports such as Toyota had Value leaders like Prius c, Scion FR-S, FJ Cruiser and Tacoma.

"The future of Total Value also plays heavily into the selling of more Alternative Powertrain (APT) fuel vehicles. The right product attributes, vehicle imagery and, of course, the customer's personal values will make the difference," says Alexander Edwards, President of Strategic Vision. "Manufacturers have to merge the 'wind-tunnel results' and what's in the customer's hearts and minds, in order to motivate them into spending significantly more, because a vehicle has the right balance of styling, innovation, performance and environmental friendliness. Total Value captures this from a Value perspective and even becomes foretelling. Without Love, sales of APT fuel vehicles and others, will have to rely on incentives, subsidies and leasing options that make them more affordable, even for those buyers who earn over $150,000 annually," continues Edwards.

No individual brand had more Total Value leaders than Chevrolet and Ford with five each. The Total Value segment with the greatest opportunity of improving sales is among the Standard Pickups. Strategic Vision's other data indicates that there is substantial opportunity to sell a lot of trucks from this segment if manufacturers can merge the core value factors of Durability, Resale Value and Reliability with great motivating styling, the right Standard Equipment and "meaningful" Innovation, all with about 26 MPG or better (ideally speaking). This would launch a "sales-revival" to the likes of Full-Size Pickup sales.

Strategic Vision has presented Total Value annually since 1995. Based on Strategic Vision's quantitative "ValueCentered®" NVES study, the Total Value Index was calculated from buyers who purchased 2013 models during September 2012 to March 2013. The following list contains the number one ranked vehicles in Total Value in their segments as rated by new vehicle buyers:


Special Award APT Tesla Model S 786 Best Full-Line Corporation Hyundai Motor Corporation 648
Strategic Vision is a research-based consultancy with over thirty-five years of experience in understanding the consumers' and constituents' decision-making systems for a variety of Fortune 100 clients, including most automotive manufacturers. Its unique expertise is in identifying consumers' comprehensive, motivational hierarchies, including the product attributes, personal benefits, value/emotions and images that drive perceptions and behaviors. J. Susan Johnson, CEO of Strategic Vision, coined the phrase "True Innovators" and we measure this construct in the detailed Total Value Index report. The ValueCentered® psychology and research methods were defined by Dr. Darrel Edwards in 1968, and enhanced by co-founders J. Susan Johnson (1972) and Sharon Shedroff (1975). For further information, contact Alexander Edwards or Christopher Chaney at (858) 576-7141 or visit www.strategicvision.com.

http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=48
Old 11-16-2013, 07:43 PM
  #312  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by YEH
While RWD+V8 doesn't guarantee tier 1, RWD always command higher prices when comparing apples to apples.

Audi's FWD sedans are cheaper than the RWD sedans of not only its German competition, but also the Japanese as well - and Audi does not offer the FWD variants of its higher end sedans, the A7 and A8, in the US (and there is indication that the next gen A8 may revert to a RWD platform).

Lexus' FWD offerings, the essentially full-size ES and the midsize RX CUV are priced along with the compact segment.

Same goes for the Lincoln with the MKZ (a midsize priced like a compact).

Infiniti regards the smaller RWD QX70 (FX) to be higher on its hierarchy than the larger FWD QX60 (JX).

Cadillac does the same when it comes to the smaller RWD new CTS and the FWD XTS.

The Equus gets included in comparisons with the flagship sedans (S Class, 7 Series, etc.) whereas the RLX does not.
apple to apple comparision?. do you even know how to do that.
Take ES & GS example. ES is sharing platform with Avalon. so much higher volume. GS has double wishbone front suspension, larger brakes, DI engine, more advanced transmission. (This is in addition to upscale interior). Its Japanese import car. so how on earth it can have same price as ES? This has nothing to do with FWD & RWD.
I already mentioned the differnce between X5 and MDX. I am not even bringing the extra long wheel base of X5 along with wider run flat tires and larger brakes. Again this has nothing to do with RWD vs FWD.
Acura tries to have it both ways by saying the RLX competes in the midsize segment while having the interior room of a full-size; funny how Acura has 2-3 models that competes in the midsize segment (TSX, TL and RLX) and 2-3 models that compete in the compact segment (ILX, TSX and TL), but that is a byproduct of being FWD-based.
TSX is not midsize by its interior volume and turning circle it is a compact.
RLX does not compete in midsize segment its NVH levels are at Lexus LS standards along with same performance as Lexus LS.
The ILX is a true compact size-wise but is most commonly seen as a sub-entry level competitor (below the class comprising of the 3 Series, C Class, A4, ATS, etc.) and is mostly compared to the Buick Verano.
your confusing outside length for interior dimensions.
The RLX is mostly compared to the likes of the XTS and MKS.
who is comparing to that.
Hyundai has made a big mistake in not bringing another NA factory online - the new Sonata will sell well, but that will mean that Hyundai will have to cut Elantra production in order to sell more Sonatas.
more excuses. so cut elantra production as Sonata is higher priced.
But worldwide, Hyundai is continuing to outpace Honda - not only outselling Honda in China, India, Russia and Brazil, but increasing its lead (as well as in Europe and Australia).
Those world wide are cheaper 1000 to 1500cc models just like Suzuki. Honda just begining 1.5 and 1.6 diesel along with newer hybrids.
Honda relies on the US market significantly more so than Hyundai - which has its positive and negatives.
Its all positive. US has the best R&D and cheaper energy so better concentrat here.


H/K has offered a longer warranty for years now and it has not put a crimp on profits.
It is just past 5 years.
For 2011 and 2012, Hyundai had the 2nd highest margins in the industry next to BMW (will see a drop for 2013).
when you dont spend on factories and R&D. margins will be higher.
What's putting a crimp on Hyundai's margins are the rising valuation of the Won and increased labor costs in Korea.
so Japan does not have labor costs.

H/K offers essentially the same types of vehicles in the same classes.

Sonata and Optima sales would likely be essentially the same whether they built one or the other and are capped by production constraints in NA (for instance, Toyota can build more Camrys at its Lexington, KY plant than Hyundai and Kia can build both the Sonata and Optima) and then there's Subaru building more Camrys for Toyota (for the time being).
It is tripe work. Honda only selling Honda Accord. Kia/Hyundia has almost 4 offering in large FWD.
What's holding H/K sales back is the limited CUV offering compounded by capacity constraints.
Not limited production but uncompetitive offering.
Kia builds the Santa Fe Sport for Hyundai at its GA plant which is not nearly enough for demand and also crimps on Sorento production.

Hyundai also has a limited capacity for building the larger SF in Korea and Kia needs a larger CUV.

Neither the Tucson or Sportage sell particularly well in the US but part of the reason is that they are big sellers in other markets (Europe, Australia, etc.) - so the US gets a smaller allotment.

Are Hyundai and Kia perfect? By no means.

But the biggest hindrance to US sales growth is the lack of capacity.

They need a 3rd NA plant ASAP (so that the Santa Fe and Sorento can get their own plant - which would free up production for Elantra, Sonata and Optima and then Kia can add production of the Forte).
They simply dont have money for such production increase. They will be stagnating for ever.


Hyundai does so as well, but a its newer and non-unionized plants.

Honda, like Toyota and Nissan, have some older plants in Japan and also have to keep a certain no. of workers employed.
Honda is really going big into emerging markets and will practically oust Hyundia-Kia from NA market.
http://world.honda.com/news/2013/c13...zil/index.html
CorporateAugust 7, 2013
Honda to Build New Automobile Production Plant in Brazil
-- Doubling Annual Production Capacity to 240,000 Units in 2015 --

http://world.honda.com/news/2013/c13...ket/index.html
Honda Cars India announces Rs 2500 crore investment at Rajasthan plant to start a new phase of growth in the Indian market■Addition of Honda’s new assembly line in Tapukara plant to increase company’s Total Installed Annual Production capacity in India to 2,40,000 units in 2014
■Showcased 1.5L i-DTEC diesel engine; specifically developed for Indian market
Old 11-18-2013, 12:03 PM
  #313  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
Originally Posted by JS + MS3
Where do you get this?

Do you have any idea how stinge Union in Korea for Hyundai/Kia is?
Originally Posted by YEH
Actually, labor costs for Hyundai is a good bit higher than it is in the US - the typical Hyundai worker in Ulsan earns $88,600 (the high cost of labor is the same reason why GM is moving production from Korea to Spain).

On top of that, some of the plants in Ulsan are old and outdated and so it takes twice as long to assemble a car in Korea than in the US - so the cost per unit is even higher.
I believe you've got that $88600 figure from here:
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2013/11/16/...plant-problem/

That's high indeed.

But that article also mentioned that the pay has doubled over the past decade. That means back in 2003, the pay was averaging around $45k. That's why I said "gradually changing." With all those strikes that happen almost every year, it will probably get worse.....

This is probably one of the reasons Hyundai is trying to sell more premium models and get rid of the cheapness/poor quality that used to associate with the brand. The labour cost is getting higher and selling cheap cars = less profit margin.
Old 11-18-2013, 06:42 PM
  #314  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
^ Actually, labor costs prior to the Asian financial crisis were fairly high as well (tho more like the avg. Ulsan worker earning around $60-65k than $88k).

That figure plummeted when the won plunged in value - so much of that has to do w/ currency valuation than anything else.

Over the past 3 years, the won has spiked in value against the dollar and yen - back towards what it has been before the Asian financial crisis.


Originally Posted by Hapa DC5
Fuck this is gonna turn into a battle of fanboy/girl fobs by epic proportions.
Eh, only one person here really is a (deluded fanboy).

Everything I stated about RWD vs. FWD and the Japanese struggling to sell RWD sedans rings true (despite the luxury badge and dealer network) rings true and if Hyundai had opted to launch a luxury brand and go RWD, they would be in the same boat as Lexus and Infiniti (even worse, due to being the newcomer).

And if Hyundai had done the same thing as Honda and opted to launch a luxury brand but save development $$ by reusing their FWD platforms, they would be in the same boat as Acura and Lincoln (even worse, due to being the newcomer).

And frankly, while Hyundai has made great strides over the past 3-4 years, personally, I would be hard pressed to purchase any of their models.

For the midsize sedan segment, I'd probably go for the Mazda6 (best driver) or maybe the refreshed Optima (also would take a look at the Fusion).

For the compact segment, it would be the Mazda3 and the subcompact segment, either the Rio (just the hatch, not the sedan) or the Chevy Sonic.

For the full-size segment, it would be the Impala (or maybe the Cadenza).

Last edited by YEH; 11-18-2013 at 06:52 PM.
Old 11-18-2013, 07:03 PM
  #315  
YEH
Burning Brakes
 
YEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 972
Received 115 Likes on 88 Posts
apple to apple comparision?. do you even know how to do that.
Take ES & GS example. ES is sharing platform with Avalon. so much higher volume. GS has double wishbone front suspension, larger brakes, DI engine, more advanced transmission. (This is in addition to upscale interior). Its Japanese import car. so how on earth it can have same price as ES? This has nothing to do with FWD & RWD.
Toyota could give the ES all those things but they still wouldn't be able the charge GS price for the ES since a FWD model simply cannot command a higher premium price than a RWD when all the other factors are the same (luxury badge, etc.).

Again, that is why the Infiniti FX is slotted higher on the Infiniti hierarchy than the larger JX and why the new CTS is slotted higher than the larger XTS and why the ES and RX are midsizers priced alongside compacts, and why the same is true for the TL (despite SH-AWD) - being priced alongside the compacts - and the ILX (actually being priced alongside the sub-entry level despite being a compact in size).

It's also the reason why the FWD Audi A4 and A6 start at a cheaper pricepoint than the Japanese RWDs and why Audi doesn't offer FWD for the A7 and A8 in the US.

It's also the reason why Lincoln had stated that after competing with Cadillac for a century, they no longer would be doing so, their competition being more Audi (a stretch), Acura and the FWD Lexus lineup.



Honda is really going big into emerging markets and will practically oust Hyundia-Kia from NA market.
Eh, Honda has been in the China market for decades and Hyundai keeps adding plants and still can't meet demand.
Old 11-18-2013, 07:16 PM
  #316  
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
 
JS + XES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Socal
Age: 39
Posts: 20,301
Received 2,603 Likes on 1,571 Posts
YEH, I'm sure you already know this but talking to SSFTSX is like talking to a concrete wall.

Unless you like talking to a wall, you should just stop responding back to him.
Old 11-19-2013, 10:52 AM
  #317  
Senior Moderator
 
fsttyms1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Appleton WI
Age: 49
Posts: 81,383
Received 3,063 Likes on 2,119 Posts
Originally Posted by JS + MS3
YEH, I'm sure you already know this but talking to SSFTSX is like talking to a concrete wall.

Unless you like talking to a wall, you should just stop responding back to him.
Maybe hes hoping to hear his Echo so that it sounds as though the brick wall is responding??
The following users liked this post:
JS + XES (11-19-2013)
Old 11-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #318  
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
 
iforyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes on 518 Posts
Originally Posted by YEH
^ Actually, labor costs prior to the Asian financial crisis were fairly high as well (tho more like the avg. Ulsan worker earning around $60-65k than $88k).

That figure plummeted when the won plunged in value - so much of that has to do w/ currency valuation than anything else.

Over the past 3 years, the won has spiked in value against the dollar and yen - back towards what it has been before the Asian financial crisis.

Haaa it might not be a bad idea to move to Korea to work in one of these companies.
Old 11-19-2013, 12:45 PM
  #319  
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
 
JS + XES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Socal
Age: 39
Posts: 20,301
Received 2,603 Likes on 1,571 Posts
Originally Posted by iforyou
Haaa it might not be a bad idea to move to Korea to work in one of these companies.
Won't be able to survive brother.

Korean companies are the worst to work for especially in Korea.
Old 11-19-2013, 08:54 PM
  #320  
Safety Car
 
SSFTSX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,581
Received 64 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by YEH
Toyota could give the ES all those things but they still wouldn't be able the charge GS price for the ES since a FWD model simply cannot command a higher premium price than a RWD when all the other factors are the same (luxury badge, etc.).
RLX is going for $50k in advance model. that car lacks run flat tires, 8speed auto, forced induction engine, 4 year maintainance, headsup display and wide screen navigation, foot operated trunk openings etc. it is not BMW level sales but it is quite decent.
Again, that is why the Infiniti FX is slotted higher on the Infiniti hierarchy than the larger JX and why the new CTS is slotted higher than the larger XTS and why the ES and RX are midsizers priced alongside compacts, and why the same is true for the TL (despite SH-AWD) - being priced alongside the compacts - and the ILX (actually being priced alongside the sub-entry level despite being a compact in size).
larger JX is essentially minivan. with no handling ability of SUV. actually ILX price is quite closer to BMW 320i. when you look at quanitive terms of BMW offering like 4 wheel ventilated brakes etc.
It's also the reason why the FWD Audi A4 and A6 start at a cheaper pricepoint than the Japanese RWDs and why Audi doesn't offer FWD for the A7 and A8 in the US.

It's also the reason why Lincoln had stated that after competing with Cadillac for a century, they no longer would be doing so, their competition being more Audi (a stretch), Acura and the FWD Lexus lineup.
A4 FWD is not that much cheaper than BMW 320i despite BMW offering 8speed auto than CVT with 4 year maintainance. as I said look at the content of the offerings not FWD/RWD setup. infact ILX looks expensive than BMW 320i. once you look at what is offered. Just the long wheel base of BMW makes it more expensive.




Eh, Honda has been in the China market for decades and Hyundai keeps adding plants and still can't meet demand.
They have been in China for decades but China was not priority interms of customized cars and low cc engines. It is now things getting changed both in India and China.


Quick Reply: Hyundai: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 AM.