Hyundai: Elantra / i30 News
02-08-2012, 11:48 AM
#241
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
He never reads. He only pew pews.
02-08-2012, 12:02 PM
#242
Honda Fanboy
02-08-2012, 12:11 PM
#243
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ Conspiracy theorists unite!!!! 
02-08-2012, 12:17 PM
#244
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
At least SSFTSX is entertaining.
The following users liked this post:
Hapa DC5 (02-08-2012)
02-08-2012, 12:27 PM
#246
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Hyung! Did you get a better job? 
02-08-2012, 12:34 PM
#247
I don't know if I want to label it as "better" or even "worse" because I very much enjoyed my time at Hyundai, but this is what I wanted as the next step in my career. 
I am now with Amazon.com. 
P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line.
They are awesome, I promise. 
I am now with Amazon.com. P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line.
They are awesome, I promise.
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JS + XES (02-08-2012)
02-08-2012, 12:42 PM
#249
Moderator
02-08-2012, 12:47 PM
#250
The sizzle in the Steak
02-08-2012, 01:05 PM
#251
Honda Fanboy
My beef is with the testing method. Do you or anyone else that you know drive to or from work/school/whatever at 55mph, in the middle of the day when there is no traffic, for 133 miles, each way? If you or someone you know does, then the Elantra is the car for you/them.
According the fueleconomy.gov, the owners of the 2012 Civic, Cruze, and Focus are ALL reporting better average MPG's than the Elantra by a significant margin. These are averages being reported by real owners in real-world driving conditions.
Maybe the average Civic/Cruze/Focus driver is just lighter on the pedal compared to the average Elantra driver? There are so many possibilities but ironic that the Elantra seems to be the only one suffering from whatever the "problem" might be.
02-08-2012, 01:12 PM
#253
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I don't know if I want to label it as "better" or even "worse" because I very much enjoyed my time at Hyundai, but this is what I wanted as the next step in my career. I am now with Amazon.com.
P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line. They are awesome, I promise.
I am now with Amazon.com. P.S. Got an issue with Amazon.com? Call the customer service line.
They are awesome, I promise. I personally hate Amazon because I always spend more than I should on that site.
IMO, it's the best shopping site on the web. Never had any problem with them before.
02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
#254
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
My little Mazda got something like 15mpg this morning on the way to work which is about 5 miles of drive, I should call EPA and complaint. Effing liars.
02-08-2012, 01:16 PM
#255
Honda Fanboy
02-08-2012, 01:18 PM
#256
אני עומד עם ישראל
Is one of the EPA stipulations that these cars have to be tested in traffic to get the rating?
Also, IIRC when Honda released the current Civic they stated the Civic will get different mileage than the sticker....
Also, IIRC when Honda released the current Civic they stated the Civic will get different mileage than the sticker....
02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
#257
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
#258
Honda Fanboy
Yes. Specifically stop and go traffic for the city test, and a mix of urban (to simulate traffic) and intersate driving (no traffic) for the hwy test.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
02-08-2012, 01:25 PM
#259
Honda Fanboy
02-08-2012, 01:35 PM
#260
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Yeah, my 2 year average is about 22-23mpg.
02-08-2012, 01:40 PM
#261
Moderator
Was that not implicit in your statement?
Ahh, so in shifting the goal posts, you're moving to the - PM is incompetent - defense. That's interesting given their history.
Really? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31371&id=32180 Make sure you pay close attention to those sample sizes.
Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.
My beef is with the testing method. Do you or anyone else that you know drive to or from work/school/whatever at 55mph, in the middle of the day when there is no traffic, for 133 miles, each way? If you or someone you know does, then the Elantra is the car for you/them.
Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.
Last edited by ttribe; 02-08-2012 at 01:46 PM.
02-08-2012, 01:58 PM
#262
Honda Fanboy
Was that not implicit in your statement?
Uhh... No. It wasn't.
Ahh, so in shifting the goal posts, you're moving to the - PM is incompetent - defense. That's interesting given their history.
Nobody said anything about PM being incompetent. I merely pointed out the methods they utilized to achieve the results they did, which are not realistic in the real-world.
Really? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31371&id=32180 Make sure you pay close attention to those sample sizes.
Here is a better comparison. Your link had a mix of manual and auto cars. My comparison is more reasonable because the cars being compared have similar EPA MPG ratings and they are all autos.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31315
Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.
So can you tell me what it is about the individual Elantra owners that is so different from the Cruze/Civic/Focus owners?
Uhh... No. It wasn't.
Ahh, so in shifting the goal posts, you're moving to the - PM is incompetent - defense. That's interesting given their history.
Nobody said anything about PM being incompetent. I merely pointed out the methods they utilized to achieve the results they did, which are not realistic in the real-world.
Really? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31371&id=32180 Make sure you pay close attention to those sample sizes.
Here is a better comparison. Your link had a mix of manual and auto cars. My comparison is more reasonable because the cars being compared have similar EPA MPG ratings and they are all autos.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31315
Hmmm, you might be closing in on why controlled test conditions might have an advantage over anecdotal reporting by individual owners.
So can you tell me what it is about the individual Elantra owners that is so different from the Cruze/Civic/Focus owners?
02-08-2012, 01:59 PM
#263
The sizzle in the Steak
Hyundai and the EPA are in bed together on this
So is MT.
So is MT.
02-08-2012, 02:02 PM
#264
Honda Fanboy
Here is another comparison with the 2011 Elantra included also. It has a slightly higher average because one person actually reported getting 40 mpg. The low of 20mpg is the same for both MY's though. All said though, it still has the lowest average of the bunch.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
02-08-2012, 02:03 PM
#265
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Elantra still is in pretty good shape in that other link..
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ttribe (02-08-2012)
02-08-2012, 02:03 PM
#266
Moderator
Before I answer that, I need to ask you a question to get a baseline (and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass here) - how much do you understand about self-selection bias, small sample sizes, and the statistical validity of anecdotal voluntary samples?
02-08-2012, 02:05 PM
#267
Moderator
02-08-2012, 02:05 PM
#268
Honda Fanboy
And from a different source, with a higher sample pool:
Elantra: http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra
Civic: http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic
Focus: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus
Cruze: http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze
Elantra: http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra
Civic: http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic
Focus: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus
Cruze: http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze
02-08-2012, 02:08 PM
#269
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Here is another comparison with the 2011 Elantra included also. It has a slightly higher average because one person actually reported getting 40 mpg. The low of 20mpg is the same for both MY's though. All said though, it still has the lowest average of the bunch.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31186&id=31016
02-08-2012, 02:10 PM
#270
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I've honestly never heard of any of these sites til today.
02-08-2012, 02:20 PM
#271
Moderator
Might be useful to bear in mind the following as well:
Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in
Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in
Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in
Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.
Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in
Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in
Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in
Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.
Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
02-08-2012, 02:24 PM
#272
Moderator
And from a different source, with a higher sample pool:
Elantra: http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra
Civic: http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic
Focus: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus
Cruze: http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze
Elantra: http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra
Civic: http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/civic
Focus: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus
Cruze: http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze
02-08-2012, 02:25 PM
#273
Honda Fanboy
You understand that you just called them incompetent, right?
If me saying that their method of testing is not representative of the real-world is your idea of me calling them incompetent, then okay. Stop making this about me and just focus on the discussion at hand.
My bad. I thought I had selected all Auto (guess I grabbed the wrong one on the Civic). But, do you really think you should be including the "Cruze ECO"?
I selected Cruze ECO because it is closer to the MPG rating of the Elantra than the regular Cruze is.
Before I answer that, I need to ask you a question to get a baseline (and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass here) - how much do you understand about self-selection bias, small sample sizes, and the statistical validity of anecdotal voluntary samples?
Quite a bit actually. One of my degrees in college (double major) was in Psychology and I did my research in a psych test lab. I don't know if I know more than you, but I think it's safe to say I know more than the average person.
If me saying that their method of testing is not representative of the real-world is your idea of me calling them incompetent, then okay. Stop making this about me and just focus on the discussion at hand.
My bad. I thought I had selected all Auto (guess I grabbed the wrong one on the Civic). But, do you really think you should be including the "Cruze ECO"?
I selected Cruze ECO because it is closer to the MPG rating of the Elantra than the regular Cruze is.
Before I answer that, I need to ask you a question to get a baseline (and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass here) - how much do you understand about self-selection bias, small sample sizes, and the statistical validity of anecdotal voluntary samples?
Quite a bit actually. One of my degrees in college (double major) was in Psychology and I did my research in a psych test lab. I don't know if I know more than you, but I think it's safe to say I know more than the average person.
02-08-2012, 02:33 PM
#274
Honda Fanboy
Might be useful to bear in mind the following as well:
Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in
Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in
Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in
Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.
Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
Length - Elantra=178.3in; Civic=177.3in
Width - Elantra=69.9in; Civic=69in
Height - Elantra=56.5in; Civic=56.5in
Curb Wt. (auto) - Elantra=2,701-2877lbs; Civic=2,608-2,773lbs.
Sources:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/Elantra/specifications.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
02-08-2012, 02:35 PM
#275
Moderator
02-08-2012, 02:38 PM
#276
Moderator
Okay good. Then, you know that it's extremely risky to reach any conclusions when you have a data set built ENTIRELY on self-selected participants, tiny sample sizes, and anecdotal evidence.
02-08-2012, 02:40 PM
#277
Honda Fanboy
Realistically though, it's a safe bet that most of the models represented are more than likely standard models.
Edit: My bad. Looks like you actually can specify the trim level after all. Its right above the graph for the specific car.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 02-08-2012 at 02:48 PM.
02-08-2012, 02:41 PM
#278
Honda Fanboy
02-08-2012, 02:44 PM
#279
Honda Fanboy
I didn't make anything about "you"; I attacked your argument.
Just drop it.
Okay good. Then, you know that it's extremely risky to reach any conclusions when you have a data set built ENTIRELY on self-selected participants, tiny sample sizes, and anecdotal evidence.
Yes, I am very aware of that. However, you can only base your conclusions on the data available and right now, this is the only data we have available from the real-world.
It is no different than how Consumer Reports and JD powers reach their conclusions and recommendations.
Just drop it.
Okay good. Then, you know that it's extremely risky to reach any conclusions when you have a data set built ENTIRELY on self-selected participants, tiny sample sizes, and anecdotal evidence.
Yes, I am very aware of that. However, you can only base your conclusions on the data available and right now, this is the only data we have available from the real-world.
It is no different than how Consumer Reports and JD powers reach their conclusions and recommendations.
02-08-2012, 03:04 PM
#280
Moderator
That's fine. Just pointing out the difference between an actual ad hominem attack and one that isn't.
Yep. I rarely look there for just this reason.
