Honda: Sales, Marketing and Financial News
05-02-2007, 12:39 PM
#121
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
But you can't argue with numbers. The TL is still more exclusive than any of the cars you mentioned not to mention some of it competitors like the 3 series and ES.
) Particularly here during any given work day.
05-02-2007, 06:44 PM
#122
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte(home) /Raleigh (school), NC
Age: 35
Posts: 11,395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently though this was a horrible month for car sales in general so they could have done worse.
http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyaut...uto-sales.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyaut...uto-sales.html
05-02-2007, 07:44 PM
#123
Moto Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Age: 46
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
Then at the Honda side only the Accord, Fit, and CRV are selling well, all of the other models have decreased in sales.
The Acura brand is sinking and sinking fast. We all know the RL is dead, the RDX is hurting, and even the TL and TSX are also starting to tank because both are getting old, but still good cars. I wonder where the car public is going to, I guess Lexus, Infiniti, and BMW.
The Acura brand is sinking and sinking fast. We all know the RL is dead, the RDX is hurting, and even the TL and TSX are also starting to tank because both are getting old, but still good cars. I wonder where the car public is going to, I guess Lexus, Infiniti, and BMW.
I don't think the Acura brand is sinking, but they need to do some refreshing or introduce replacements to existing models (i.e. TSX and TL).
05-03-2007, 06:10 AM
#124
Safety Car
Sales
Originally Posted by taitando
Demand is up for the Fit and CRV, dealers are basically giving away Accords, but I wonder why the Civic isn't selling as well.
I don't think the Acura brand is sinking, but they need to do some refreshing or introduce replacements to existing models (i.e. TSX and TL).
I don't think the Acura brand is sinking, but they need to do some refreshing or introduce replacements to existing models (i.e. TSX and TL).
The 5 year model cycle might be too long for Honda/Acura & a return to the 4 year may be in order - @ least for the models that are not selling well.
I hope that they figure out exactly what they want the Acura brand to be & then market it accordingly bc right now their lack of vision is apparent & sales seem to be affected.
lol
05-03-2007, 05:33 PM
#127
Pro
Originally Posted by BuddySol
It's not so bad when you look at the entire industry...even Toyota dropped farther than Honda compared to last April. 
It was expected that April would be a slow month in auto sales...
It was expected that April would be a slow month in auto sales...
If you break down by the divisions in terms of DSR:
Infiniti: 12% in crease
Lexus: 14.1% increase.
Acura: -15.0%
Audi: +9.4%
(can't find MB or BMW)
Honda is one of the odd companies that the luxury division under performs the corporate parent.
I wish someone here could also track the quarterly profits of these companies. that's just as important, if not more.
05-03-2007, 06:50 PM
#128
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ That's because Acura is an "odd" lux brand.
05-04-2007, 09:31 AM
#129
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TMQ
Read the numbers. Toyota/Lexus/Scion daily selling rate increased 6.6%. Honda/Acura's DSR decreased 1.6%. Nissan/Infinit's DSR decreased 11.1%.
If you break down by the divisions in terms of DSR:
Infiniti: 12% in crease
Lexus: 14.1% increase.
Acura: -15.0%
Audi: +9.4%
(can't find MB or BMW)
Honda is one of the odd companies that the luxury division under performs the corporate parent.
I wish someone here could also track the quarterly profits of these companies. that's just as important, if not more.
If you break down by the divisions in terms of DSR:
Infiniti: 12% in crease
Lexus: 14.1% increase.
Acura: -15.0%
Audi: +9.4%
(can't find MB or BMW)
Honda is one of the odd companies that the luxury division under performs the corporate parent.
I wish someone here could also track the quarterly profits of these companies. that's just as important, if not more.
Edit: The DSR's for Mercedes is up 6.4% and BMW up 8.6%.
05-04-2007, 02:12 PM
#130
Pro
You are right, Toyota total is up 3.7%. 6.6% increase is North America built vehicles. (too many numbers to read from that table...)
The next TL and TSX better come out with some strong statement. Luxury sector is tougher business.
The next TL and TSX better come out with some strong statement. Luxury sector is tougher business.
05-04-2007, 05:26 PM
#131
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by taitando
I don't think the Acura brand is sinking, but they need to do some refreshing or introduce replacements to existing models (i.e. TSX and TL).
They just redid those... TSX was new in the US in 2004, and the TL was redone for 2004 also... Honda usually does a FMC (full model change) every 5 years...
05-06-2007, 01:20 PM
#132
Race Director
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Illinois
Age: 44
Posts: 10,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like it every 5-6 yrs to be redesigned because it doesn't make your car investment seem outdated sooner. Case in point the G35 sedan. My folks bought their 2004 G35 and then just 3 yrs later it was redesigned. Their car is outdated, but Nissan needed to redesign the G due to the competition and the subpar interior.
05-06-2007, 01:36 PM
#133
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
I like it every 5-6 yrs to be redesigned because it doesn't make your car investment seem outdated sooner. Case in point the G35 sedan. My folks bought their 2004 G35 and then just 3 yrs later it was redesigned. Their car is outdated, but Nissan needed to redesign the G due to the competition and the subpar interior.
if it is designed on a 4 year cycle, it'll be outdated when compared to the same but newer model, but up to date when compared to the market. The advantage here though is that the refresh takes place sooner and then a replacement comes sooner, so there is less lag time between sales spurts.
If it's on a 5 year cycle, it'll be up to date longer when compared to the same model, but will be outdated when compared to the market. There will also be longer durations between sales spurts from the refresh and replacement.
from a business point of view, it makes more sense to have a shorter refresh/replace time because 1) you avoid long durations between sales spurts, and 2) the people who leased the model in its first year is now back in the showroom when there is a new model out, avoiding customers from jumping ship to another brand that has a new model out.
05-06-2007, 11:53 PM
#134
Senior Moderator
^ mrdeeno, but if you have a shorter production model cycle, you spend more money on R&D and retooling of plants / train employees the new parts. Lengthening the production cycle, you have economy of scale by making more of 'the same' thing.
What the manufacturers want to do is maximize the profit per vehicle
Whether it be 4 or 5 years or whatever length they so choose (ie fight between bean counters and marketing). 
What the manufacturers want to do is maximize the profit per vehicle
Whether it be 4 or 5 years or whatever length they so choose (ie fight between bean counters and marketing).
05-07-2007, 07:12 AM
#135
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by derrick
^ mrdeeno, but if you have a shorter production model cycle, you spend more money on R&D and retooling of plants / train employees the new parts. Lengthening the production cycle, you have economy of scale by making more of 'the same' thing.
What the manufacturers want to do is maximize the profit per vehicle Whether it be 4 or 5 years or whatever length they so choose (ie fight between bean counters and marketing).
What the manufacturers want to do is maximize the profit per vehicle
Whether it be 4 or 5 years or whatever length they so choose (ie fight between bean counters and marketing). once a car is put on the market, R&D of the refresh and next generation has already started. with a 5 year cycle, the R&D has another year to work on a product which costs another years worth of engineering. With a 4 year cycle, you save on that one year and spend it on retooling and training. From personal experience, R&D (engineering) usually costs more than retooling and training.
So in the end, cost-wise it may be a wash between 4 or 5 years, but with the 4-year cycle the sales lag is shorter and the model is more up to date when compared to competitors with 4 year product cycles. I still believe that the extra costs (if any) for a 4 year vs. 5 year product cycle is more than worth it consdiering it would pay itself off with quicker sales boosts and keep the model up to date (given that the redesign was done well).
05-07-2007, 04:10 PM
#136
2G TLX-S
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
you would spend MORE money on R&D if you had a 5 year product cycle. Just because it could take 4 years to redesign a car on a 5 year cycle doesn't mean all the engineers take a year off without pay.
once a car is put on the market, R&D of the refresh and next generation has already started. with a 5 year cycle, the R&D has another year to work on a product which costs another years worth of engineering. With a 4 year cycle, you save on that one year and spend it on retooling and training. From personal experience, R&D (engineering) usually costs more than retooling and training.
So in the end, cost-wise it may be a wash between 4 or 5 years, but with the 4-year cycle the sales lag is shorter and the model is more up to date when compared to competitors with 4 year product cycles. I still believe that the extra costs (if any) for a 4 year vs. 5 year product cycle is more than worth it consdiering it would pay itself off with quicker sales boosts and keep the model up to date (given that the redesign was done well).
once a car is put on the market, R&D of the refresh and next generation has already started. with a 5 year cycle, the R&D has another year to work on a product which costs another years worth of engineering. With a 4 year cycle, you save on that one year and spend it on retooling and training. From personal experience, R&D (engineering) usually costs more than retooling and training.
So in the end, cost-wise it may be a wash between 4 or 5 years, but with the 4-year cycle the sales lag is shorter and the model is more up to date when compared to competitors with 4 year product cycles. I still believe that the extra costs (if any) for a 4 year vs. 5 year product cycle is more than worth it consdiering it would pay itself off with quicker sales boosts and keep the model up to date (given that the redesign was done well).
05-07-2007, 09:08 PM
#137
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
If it takes 4 years' R&D effort to revamp a four-year-cycle model, it won't suddenly takes 5 years' R&D effort to revamp a five-year-cycle model. It is still 4. The extra 1 year can be used to do R&D work for another car model, which in terms save the car company money by having the R&D team A to do some work for say R&D team B or even team C. Remember that R&D work is non-stop due to different model cycles expire in different years.
i really doubt this is the case. If it took them 4 years effort, then it would be foolish to not introduce it after 4 years. They may spread 4 years effort out over 5 years, but that does not make sense either because there are fixed costs involved (ie engineering salaries) that may end up costing more than 4 years worth.
But with Honda, I have a feeling they actually do put in 5 years worth of R&D into a model, but only at a cost of 4 years worth considering how efficient they supposedly are, so there is cost savings there along with a hopefully more solid product. But in the end, putting in 5 years worth of R&D at a cost of 4 years may mean they are more efficient and productive, but it is also at the cost of lagging competitors that introduce models every 4 years. I think it is worth the "inefficiency" to keep up with the market.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 05-07-2007 at 09:10 PM.
01-03-2008, 01:20 PM
#138
Safety Car
Honda/Acura Dec/Year End 2007 Sales
11th Year of Consecutive Record Sales
American Honda Motor Co., Inc., today announced record sales results for the 11th consecutive year. Sales from both Honda and Acura Divisions totaled 1,551,542 and pushed American Honda annual sales up 2.5 percent, based on the daily selling rate*. The results also mark the company's 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase. American Honda's December sales totaled 131,792 vehicles, a slight increase versus December, 2006.
2007 American Honda sales highlights:
* Record total vehicle sales of 1,551,542 (up 2.5 percent)
* 11th consecutive yearly sales record
* 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase
* Record light-truck sales of 669,327 (up 0.3 percent), representing 43 percent of total vehicle sales
* Individual vehicle sales records for Honda CR-V, Fit, Civic Hybrid and Acura RDX
"This was definitely a challenging year to be in the car business, and 2008 isn't likely to be a piece of cake," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "Honda continues to benefit from its position as the most fuel-efficient car company in America**, and we have some great new products coming in the new year that will keep our momentum going."
Honda Division posted its 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase, up 4.5 percent in 2007 to 1,371,438 vehicles. Annual Accord sales increased 10.3 percent to 392,231. CR-V annual sales of 219,160 increased 28.5 percent and set a fourth consecutive yearly record. Fit sales of 56,432 increased 101.4 percent. Civic Hybrid sales set an annual record for the sixth consecutive year with an increase of 3.9 percent to 32,575. Setting December monthly sales records were the CR-V, with sales of 18,659, up 7.6 percent; Civic with sales of 27,190, up 15.2 percent; Civic Hybrid, with sales of 3,223, up 33.8 percent; and Fit, with sales of 5,118, up 129.3 percent.
"The all-new Accord is off to a smoking start, and three Honda models set all-time records for 2007," said Colliver. "Offering fuel efficiency and value along with a fun driving experience continues to be a recipe for success."
2007 Honda Division sales highlights:
* 12th consecutive record Honda Division sales of 1,371,438 (up 4.5 percent)
* 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase
* Record full-year sales of CR-V, Fit and Civic Hybrid
* Accord sales increased 10.3 percent for the year, to 392,231 units
2007 Acura total year end sales reached 180,104 vehicles, and for a second consecutive year, Acura light trucks posted record year-end sales, eclipsing 2006 by 29.1 percent. December sales of all Acura models rose dramatically over November with TL recording 5,988 sales, MDX posting 5,906 sales, TSX logging 2,838 vehicles and RDX posting 2,263 units for the month.
*The daily selling rate is calculated with 307 days for 2007, versus 306 for 2006. Both December, 2006 and 2007 included 26 selling days.
**Based on model year 2006 CAFE average fuel economy ratings and weighted sales for passenger-car and light truck fleets sold in the U.S. by major manufacturers.
Consumer information is available at www.honda.com.
American Honda Motor Co., Inc., today announced record sales results for the 11th consecutive year. Sales from both Honda and Acura Divisions totaled 1,551,542 and pushed American Honda annual sales up 2.5 percent, based on the daily selling rate*. The results also mark the company's 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase. American Honda's December sales totaled 131,792 vehicles, a slight increase versus December, 2006.
2007 American Honda sales highlights:
* Record total vehicle sales of 1,551,542 (up 2.5 percent)
* 11th consecutive yearly sales record
* 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase
* Record light-truck sales of 669,327 (up 0.3 percent), representing 43 percent of total vehicle sales
* Individual vehicle sales records for Honda CR-V, Fit, Civic Hybrid and Acura RDX
"This was definitely a challenging year to be in the car business, and 2008 isn't likely to be a piece of cake," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "Honda continues to benefit from its position as the most fuel-efficient car company in America**, and we have some great new products coming in the new year that will keep our momentum going."
Honda Division posted its 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase, up 4.5 percent in 2007 to 1,371,438 vehicles. Annual Accord sales increased 10.3 percent to 392,231. CR-V annual sales of 219,160 increased 28.5 percent and set a fourth consecutive yearly record. Fit sales of 56,432 increased 101.4 percent. Civic Hybrid sales set an annual record for the sixth consecutive year with an increase of 3.9 percent to 32,575. Setting December monthly sales records were the CR-V, with sales of 18,659, up 7.6 percent; Civic with sales of 27,190, up 15.2 percent; Civic Hybrid, with sales of 3,223, up 33.8 percent; and Fit, with sales of 5,118, up 129.3 percent.
"The all-new Accord is off to a smoking start, and three Honda models set all-time records for 2007," said Colliver. "Offering fuel efficiency and value along with a fun driving experience continues to be a recipe for success."
2007 Honda Division sales highlights:
* 12th consecutive record Honda Division sales of 1,371,438 (up 4.5 percent)
* 14th consecutive year-over-year sales increase
* Record full-year sales of CR-V, Fit and Civic Hybrid
* Accord sales increased 10.3 percent for the year, to 392,231 units
2007 Acura total year end sales reached 180,104 vehicles, and for a second consecutive year, Acura light trucks posted record year-end sales, eclipsing 2006 by 29.1 percent. December sales of all Acura models rose dramatically over November with TL recording 5,988 sales, MDX posting 5,906 sales, TSX logging 2,838 vehicles and RDX posting 2,263 units for the month.
*The daily selling rate is calculated with 307 days for 2007, versus 306 for 2006. Both December, 2006 and 2007 included 26 selling days.
**Based on model year 2006 CAFE average fuel economy ratings and weighted sales for passenger-car and light truck fleets sold in the U.S. by major manufacturers.
Consumer information is available at www.honda.com.
01-03-2008, 02:22 PM
#140
Senior Moderator
Looks like the SUV's are selling well, but the sedans aren't... at least compared to Last Years YTD figure... Overall Sales down for 2007 compared to 2006.
If acura really wants to be a known as a luxury SUV manufacturer, than they are going a great job !!
Hopefully the sedan sales will turn around with the new redesigns slated for the TSX and TL...
If acura really wants to be a known as a luxury SUV manufacturer, than they are going a great job !!
Hopefully the sedan sales will turn around with the new redesigns slated for the TSX and TL...
01-03-2008, 02:30 PM
#141
The sizzle in the Steak
@ the RL #'s
01-03-2008, 02:37 PM
#142
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
Hopefully the sedan sales will turn around with the new redesigns slated for the TSX and TL...
According to TOV, the RL is in for a significant MMC for 09.
Not sure why they'll even bother.
01-03-2008, 03:28 PM
#143
Senior Moderator
Acura car sales are lagging behind ... go to any dealership (US or Canadian) and they will beg you to buy one of their cars ...
I walked into a US dealer last month and got $400 over invoice without even starting to negotiate ...
Too bad it won't be the same when the new TL / TSX come out later this year ...
I walked into a US dealer last month and got $400 over invoice without even starting to negotiate ...
Too bad it won't be the same when the new TL / TSX come out later this year ...
01-03-2008, 06:54 PM
#145
Senior Moderator
Hey! Leave my RL alone! Sticks and stones.... 
The RL is a better car than its sales numbers indicate. MMC is planned this year and we'll see what happens. I'd love to have a V8, but I'll survive with my engine mods.
I can't wait to see the 4G TL and 2G TSX, though. If the TL, in particular, is a home run like the 3G was, look for those awful sedan sales numbers to turn around.
The RL is a better car than its sales numbers indicate. MMC is planned this year and we'll see what happens. I'd love to have a V8, but I'll survive with my engine mods.
I can't wait to see the 4G TL and 2G TSX, though. If the TL, in particular, is a home run like the 3G was, look for those awful sedan sales numbers to turn around.
01-04-2008, 12:38 AM
#146
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by neuronbob
.
I can't wait to see the 4G TL and 2G TSX, though. If the TL, in particular, is a home run like the 3G was, look for those awful sedan sales numbers to turn around.
I can't wait to see the 4G TL and 2G TSX, though. If the TL, in particular, is a home run like the 3G was, look for those awful sedan sales numbers to turn around.
01-04-2008, 07:52 AM
#149
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by neuronbob
The RL is a better car than its sales numbers indicate.
Acura bailed on the CL... Cut it's loses and discontinued the model.... instead of redesigning to meet market expectations. I think the RL suffers from the same stubbornness of Acura to "give the people what they want". The sales numbers prove that the RL doesn't offer what most people want/expect in that price range.
01-04-2008, 07:58 AM
#150
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Im just afraid that the TL will be a bloated over weight (underpowered for its weight) sedan much like every one is complaining about with the CTS
The RL weighs 4014 and the TL weighs 3623... I'd image that the difference will be narrower when the next gen TL comes out, especially if sh-awd is added.
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
01-04-2008, 08:22 AM
#151
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
That's what usually happens when a model moves "upscale"... Adding SH-AWD ain't gonna make it lighter...
The RL weighs 4014 and the TL weighs 3623... I'd image that the difference will be narrower when the next gen TL comes out, especially if sh-awd is added.
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
The RL weighs 4014 and the TL weighs 3623... I'd image that the difference will be narrower when the next gen TL comes out, especially if sh-awd is added.
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
That caddy is looking better and better to me every day
01-04-2008, 08:26 AM
#152
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
Then it became the RSX and Acura killed it off.
01-04-2008, 08:30 AM
#153
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
That's what usually happens when a model moves "upscale"... Adding SH-AWD ain't gonna make it lighter...
The RL weighs 4014 and the TL weighs 3623... I'd image that the difference will be narrower when the next gen TL comes out, especially if sh-awd is added.
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
The RL weighs 4014 and the TL weighs 3623... I'd image that the difference will be narrower when the next gen TL comes out, especially if sh-awd is added.
If Acura keeps "upscaling" to heavier and more expensive models eventually theywill have room in the lineup to introduce a cheap lightweight like BMW did with the 1-series...
It's funny how model lineups progress, but I don't think we'll see Acura doing anything that other car makers do... heck, they don't even offer a coupe in their lineup
The week just wouldn't be complete without GM mentioning the lack of a coupe in Acura's lineup.
I'd expect the next TL to come in at 39xx lbs
Seems Honda and GM have trouble keeping weight in check.
01-04-2008, 09:48 AM
#154
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by derrick
Acura car sales are lagging behind ... go to any dealership (US or Canadian) and they will beg you to buy one of their cars ...
01-04-2008, 10:42 AM
#155
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
The week just wouldn't be complete without GM mentioning the lack of a coupe in Acura's lineup.
My work is done here...
01-04-2008, 07:29 PM
#158
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
That caddy is looking better and better to me every day
I'm still convinced that if the CTS-V is all it's hyped up to be, that will be my next ride. I can hardly wait the next two weeks until the NAIAS so I can go see it in person.
As far as the RL, I am obviously in a small minority when I say that I like it fine other than the low-end torque. It's the right size, right drivetrain, and right lux features for me, but it could use a tune-up in power, features (*cough* iPod on navi screen please *cough*)
I guess I just like strange, unolved cars?
01-04-2008, 09:51 PM
#159
What Would Don Draper Do?
Originally Posted by neuronbob
I'm still convinced that if the CTS-V is all it's hyped up to be, that will be my next ride. I can hardly wait the next two weeks until the NAIAS so I can go see it in person.
As far as the RL, I am obviously in a small minority when I say that I like it fine other than the low-end torque. It's the right size, right drivetrain, and right lux features for me, but it could use a tune-up in power, features (*cough* iPod on navi screen please *cough*)
I guess I just like strange, unolved cars?
and 
It's been 13 yrs since they cut the Legend. That is one good looking coupe Acura had in the day.