fsttyms1

Because they are such high tech they should only be for those who shell out the big bucks, Kinda like their new 6 speed. Its reserved for the premium crowd.

jnc2000

Costco

If it matters, I spent an extended amount of time in a 2011 Sienna and indeed, the interior reeks of cheapness. I don't know what they were thinking with the texture... doesn't feel nice and isn't nice to look at either. Still, the design itself is a huge step up from the previous gen Sienna

Hopefully these vans don't get any bigger in size. Felt like the Sienna should be as big as it gets, but this new Odyssey doesn't look any smaller.

phile

this is one of their better recent ads. Much better than the Acuras, that's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQ-jRHeCW0

fsttyms1

^ Acura adds suck donkey shit. Show me something that excites me and wants me to go into the show room. Bot a big wrecking yard style magnet and a pile of black goo lifting from the floor to then tell me that is in the shocks Woooooo Im going to run and get the vehicle after seeing that....................

TMQ

Pricing info, from TOV:

Odyssey LX 27,800
Odyssey EX 30,950
Odyssey EX-L 34,450
Odyssey EX-L w/ Navi 36,450
Odyssey EX-L w/ RES 36,050
Touring 40,755
Touring Elite 43,250

Plus 780 Destination to all trims.

Hapa DC5

43,250 minivans aint cheap.

Moog-Type-S

Do you get fantastic pax tires for that 43 grand?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Of course! Remember, Honda hates us, but wants us to love them. And for a limited time offer, we'll give you four PAX tires, and remove the spare so you aren't carrying around any dead weight.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

What does the Touring Elite add over the Touring?

Moog-Type-S

^^ HID's

TMQ

Also wide / dual screen RES

phile

cause even at 40k, the Touring doesn't get you that

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. HID's have been around long enough, don't know why they aren't a standard feature on many cars you would expect them to be on. I can understand them not being on a Corolla or a sentra, but if they are available on a 30K prius, why not a 40K Odyssey.

TSX69

1st Drive: 2011 Honda Odyssey
Honda Doesn't Redefine the MiniVan, They Strive to Perfect It

Honda did something silly during the launch of its all-new 2011 Odyssey minivan. The automaker built a large autocross-type "track" in the parking lot of San Diego's Qualcomm Stadium and invited journalists to take its latest 8-passenger family hauler for hot laps. It was an interesting "fish out of water" introduction to Honda's 4th-generation people mover.

Designed, developed and manufactured in the United States, Honda considers the 2011 model an "American Odyssey." The domestic development team, owners of 46 Odysseys between them, labored to deliver a minivan with distinctive style, greater interior versatility and improved fuel economy. Did Honda build itself a worthy successor and how did it fare on the autocross?

Sharing its platform architecture with the Honda Ridgeline and Pilot, the all-new 2011 Odyssey is wider and lower than the model it replaces. The automaker's California design team penned a much more stylish and distinctive edge to the new model, unlike its arguably bland predecessors. It's a look we 1st scoped in concept form at the 2010 Chicago Auto Show. Most striking is its unique "lightning-bolt" beltline. The "bolt" is functional, as it improves outward visibility from the third row, but the placement is arguably less than attractive at 1st glance. It's as though the trailing edge of the sliding door cuts the minivan in 2 pieces – like the back half had been surgically grafted to the front. Making things even more awkward, the optical illusion is reinforced as the sliding door channel abruptly ends in the same spot.

The interior, on the other hand, is far from controversial. It features an expensive and upscale Acura-like look and feel. Pleasantly traditional in layout, and very friendly to the eye, the center stack is much improved over last year's model with the audio and HVAC controls now occupying the same general real estate, and human-friendly round knobs replacing toggle switches for temperature adjustments. The analog tachometer and speedometer, now the same size, join analog coolant temperature and fuel level gauges on each side.

To avoid confusion going forward, it's best to outline the model hierarchy. Anyone familiar with this automaker, or current Odyssey owners, will realize it follows Honda's existing 2010 trim levels. The entry-level model is badged the LX, followed by the EX, EX-L, EX-L RES (rear entertainment) and EX-L NAV (navigation). The flagship models are the Touring and (new for 2011) Touring Elite. Pricing starts at $27,800 (plus $780 destination) for the LX model. Odysseys with leather upholstery, such as the EX-L, start at $34,450 (plus destination). Lastly, we have the Touring ($40,755 plus destination) and the new-for-2011 range-topping Touring Elite ($43,250 plus destination).

While all models share the same basic primary instrumentation, the multi-information display centered on the top of the dashboard varies by model. The standard model (LX trim) has a 1-line segment readout. This is improved slightly with a 3-line segment display on mid-grade models (base EX trim). But the real eye candy is the full-color, eight-inch QVGA display (EX-L and EXL-Res trim) or its VGA counterpart (EX-L Touring trim). Both are capable of presenting a full range of graphics, including navigation, audio, trip computer and even background images similar to those on your PC or smartphone.

Dash aside, the rest of the cabin is a reflection of the American family road-trip dream. There are 12-volt power outlets galore and cup holders everywhere (15 in all but the LX trim, which only has 13). Storage nooks and crannies are seemingly hidden behind nearly every panel and there's even a chilled "Cool Box" for keeping drinks crisp (EX-L and both Touring trims).

The driver and front passenger seat are bucket-style captain's chairs with 8-way (LX trim) or 10-way (all other trim levels) power assist. Each seat features an individual fold-down armrest in the center and leather, seat heating and seat memory are trim-dependant. Between the front seats is a reconfigured center console with storage and a new flip-up trash bag ring that's sized to accommodate ordinary grocery bags. The center console is also removable, allowing a generous pass-through for those who to choose to give up the storage.

The 2nd-row of seating has been significantly redesigned compared to last year's model. Constructed in 3 seating segments, the center seat is 3.9 inches wider and can slide forward 5.5 inches – bringing it closer to the front seats. Even better, the 3 middle seats have a "Wide-Mode" configuration where they can be slid apart laterally by 1.5" each (allowing three child seats to go side-by-side-by-side with ease). The seats also fold down or can be completely removed.

The 3rd-row of seating has also been enhanced. It has an additional 1.1 inches of legroom (for "adult-sized levels of comfort," says Honda) and outward visibility has improved thanks to the "Lightning Bolt" design. Honda's 3rd-row "Magic Seat" is split 60/40 and each side folds and collapses flat and flush into the floor in a simple 1-hand operation while the headrests remain in the seats.

A dual-zone (LX trim) or tri-zone (all other models) climate control keeps occupants comfortable, with the tri-zone system allowing the driver, front passenger and rear passengers to adjust the temperature and distribution automatically. Vehicles fitted with the navigation system take things one step further. Based on GPS data, the system automatically adjusts fan speed to compensate for direct sunlight (don't ask us how it knows whether or not there are sunlight obscuring clouds overhead).

The Odyssey's infotainment system is very capable, even in its simplest form. The base audio package (LX trim) is a 229-watt AM/FM/CD 5-speaker system. Higher option levels (EX or EX-L trim) gain a 2GB audio library and 2 more speakers. Adding the navigation system brings a 15GB hard drive to the package. The top audio package (found only on the Touring Elite trim) is a 650-watt AM/FM/CD/15GB Hard Disk premium audio package with 12 speakers including a subwoofer. The center channel speakers for its 5.1 surround-sound audio system are located in the roof just in front of the 2nd row.

The basic rear entertainment system (RES) available on the EX-L and standard Touring models is a 9" wide QVGA ceiling-mounted screen (480 pixels x 234 pixels) for viewing DVDs or devices through the audio/video input jacks. Even more enticing is the Touring Elite model's "Ultrawide" RES, featuring a 16.2" wide WVGA ceiling-mounted screen (1,600 pixels x 480 pixels). It can show 1 (full screen) or 2 sources (split screen) of programming simultaneously while the audio portion is sent to wireless headsets. The system also includes a high-definition HDMI port for external device input. A similar ultra-wide viewing screen can also be had on the 2011 Toyota Sienna and seems to be making its way around the minivan segment.

Under the hood, Honda is hiding a 24-valve 3.5-liter V6 that's nearly identical to last year's engine. However, Honda has pulled a few tricks to wring out more horses from the proven powerplant. To reduce friction, the aluminum engine block has been honed and very lightweight 0W-20 oil fills the crankcase. To improve breathing, there is a new 2-stage intake manifold, and Honda claims the refined engine delivers 248 horsepower and 250 pound-feet of torque on regular unleaded fuel. (For the record, last year's models are rated at 244 horsepower and 245 pound-feet of torque).

Honda's now-familiar Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) is standard on all trim levels for 2011. In layman's terms, the technology starts the engine with all 6 cylinders firing. Things change during moderate-speed cruising and at low engine speeds when the rear bank of cylinders shuts down to effectively create a 3-cylinder powerplant. For moderate-speed acceleration, the left and center cylinders of the front bank operate, and the right and center cylinders of the rear bank operate (the engine runs on only 4 cylinders). Computer-controlled, VCM closes the intake and exhaust valves of the cylinders that are not used, thereby eliminating pumping losses. Fuel supply is cut, but the plug continues to fire to prevent fouling and keep the spark hot.

While Honda has gone to exhaustive lengths to improve the engine's efficiency (even lowering the amount of tension on the alternator belt), one cannot help but wonder why they haven't embraced today's innovative technologies. If you've already relegated owners to driving on 3 or 4 cylinders during most of their driving, why not just seal the deal with a direct-injected turbocharged 4-cylinder engine in the 1st place? (We'll remind readers that Hyundai's new 2.0T Theta II engine trumps the Honda 3.5-liter in horsepower, torque, efficiency, weight and packaging).

Power is sent to the front wheels (there is no all-wheel-drive offering) through 1 of 2 transmissions. The standard transmission on the lower trim levels is a 5-speed, while a 6-speed automatic – a Honda brand 1st – is standard on the top trim levels (Touring models). Compared to the 5-speed, the gearing on the 6-speed transmission is lower in first through 5th to improve acceleration, and taller in 6th to boost fuel economy.

The Odyssey's wheelbase is unchanged from last year's model, but its track is up 1.4" in the front and rear. The independent suspension design remains the same (MacPherson struts up front, multi-link out back), but Honda engineers worked hard to isolate passengers from road noise by using very stiff mounting points in the rear and "blow-off" valves on all shock absorbers that reduce harshness when a wheel hits a severe jolt, such as a pothole.

Many automakers have moved towards electric power steering pumps, but Honda bucks the trend by retaining a traditional hydraulic pump. As expected, there is more power assist at lower speeds to reduce steering effort. At higher speeds, when more feedback is desired, the system automatically reduces boost to improve steering feel while simultaneously lowering parasitic drag on the engine.

The disc brakes on all 4 corners are larger than their predecessors. The standard wheels have grown by an inch across the board, with all lower trim levels wearing 17-inch steel wheels (235/65R17 tires) and Touring models equipped with 18-inch alloys wrapped in lower profile 235/60R18 tires. Honda does not offer run-flat or extended mobility tires and instead, the minivan is equipped with a compact spare hidden out of view under the load floor between the front seats.

The curb weight of the flagship Touring Elite model we tested is 4,560 pounds (the entry-level LX tips the scales about 200 pounds lighter). Nevertheless, it still scoots to 60 mph in about 8.5 seconds, says Honda. Much more important to minivan owners is fuel efficiency. This is where the 2011 Odyssey shines. Models with the 5-speed transmission (LX, EX and EX-L) earn 18 mpg city/27 mpg highway (21 combined). The Touring/Touring Elite models, with the 6-speed automatic, earn 19 mpg city/28 mpg highway (22 combined). With a standard 21-gallon fuel tank, the range on the highway should easily exceed 450 miles.

Safety also sells minivans, so Honda has made occupant and pedestrian protection part of its core business strategy. Standard safety equipment includes Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and 4-wheel ABS with electronic brake distribution (EBD) and brake assist. Dual-stage, multiple-threshold front airbags and active head restraints protect those in the front seats and there are standard 3-row side-curtain airbags with a rollover sensor for all outboard passengers within the cabin. The driver's and front passenger's side airbags are fitted with Honda's Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS) - an innovative technology that deactivates the side airbag if sensors determine that a child or small stature adult is leaning against the door.

Inside the cabin, all seating positions feature 3-point seatbelts (automatic pensioners on the front seats) and there is a class-leading total of five childseat Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children (LATCH) positions (four in the entry-level Odyssey LX). There is also a "pedestrian injury mitigation design" in the front of the vehicle. The 2011 Honda Odyssey has not been crash tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) or the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) yet, but Honda says its Odyssey minivan is targeted to achieve the best 5-Star/Top Safety Pick scores.

We spent a full day with the 2011 Honda Odyssey in San Diego, but before heading out, we took a few minutes to sit in all three rows of the Odyssey - and each proved comfortable for a six-foot two-inch average-weight male. Even the third row, often the seating zone for small children, was accommodating thanks to the additional shoulder room gained by keeping the sliding door tracks low on the platform. Honda brought along a 2011 Toyota Sienna for comparison, and the 3rd row in the Odyssey was noticeably roomier for our adult frames.

Turn the traditional key (there is no push-button start, as found on the Sienna) and the familiar V6 fires to a muted idle. Drop the dashboard-mounted shifter down into "D" and the Odyssey is good to go.

A slight press on the throttle sends the Odyssey off the line with confidence. Around town, there is more than enough torque to move around smartly and weave between the tourists who obviously aren't under any type of schedule. We spent about 15 minutes on the surface streets, never bumping much over 50 mph. The transmission shifts smoothly, the brakes work as expected and outward visibility is just fine. The power from the engine is exactly what you would expect from a 6-cylinder 8-passenger minivan.

The new Odyssey was every bit as capable on the highway. Stable as a laden Honda Accord in its mannerisms, the minivan cruised down the highway at 70-plus with aplomb. We could have driven this way – content, comfortable and locked in conversation with our passenger – until the fuel tank ran dry.

However, prodigiously consuming fuel is not one of the Odyssey's strengths. While there was plenty of six-cylinder power around town, the minivan seemed to prefer running on fewer cylinders on the highway where it could squeeze another ten miles out of each gallon. Drop your right foot to pass at 60 mph and there's a slight hesitation (and a simultaneous downshift) as everything spools back up. It feels as if part of the engine has gone to sleep – because it has. While the behavior is far from a deal breaker (we became accustom to it after a few hours), it served to remind us that saving fuel was much more important than entertaining acceleration. And as it should be.

Over at San Diego's Qualcomm Stadium, we took Honda up on their offer, but with reservation. Nobody enjoys flogging a 4,500-pound front-wheel-drive minivan around a road course – even when it's someone else's vehicle.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but the Odyssey didn't carve corners like a Porsche Cayman. This is still a minivan, after all. Yet, when we expected it to exhibit severe understeer in the corners and roll over its front outside tire, it didn't. With 56% of its weight over the front tires, a wide track and some downright ingenious suspension tuning, the Odyssey feels almost neutral at the limit. Apply power mid-corner and the eight-passenger family hauler drifts wider and wider in a completely controlled increasing radius arch. While not exactly a joyride, it's safe and predictable (not sketchy and sloppy, as we had predicted). We refuse to call it sporty, but "impressively competent" seems like the best description.

After a long day driving around San Diego, we came away impressed by the Odyssey and had a much clearer picture of how it compares to the 2011 Toyota Sienna, its primary competitor.

Honda and Toyota have unquestionably raised the bar significantly with their latest round of completely redesigned minivans, leaving their primary competition all but wallowing in a trail of spilled Cheerios. Both vehicles offer comfortable accommodations for 8, with a slew of amenities and entertainment to keep occupants occupied through the road trip doldrums. However, the similarities end there.

While Toyota's product is sleekly styled, modern and sporty, it's Honda's approach – familiar, family-friendly and fuel efficient – that seems to have earned the edge.

Moog-Type-S

Article hits the nail on the head.
VCM FTL
Honda tech is behind the curve.

Moog-Type-S

...and the van still has a "key" ignition to start

Memo to Honda: The majority of the drivers that will be driving your van are FEMALE....their keys are in their purse with the rest of their "stuff". How about you let them open their car doors and start the engine without digging into their purse for the keys? Perhaps you need to listen more to your focus groups than your accountants.

fsttyms1

This is not new news.


And i really wish they would have moved those rear wheels back like 8". That rear overhang wouldnt look as bad.

fsttyms1

I have to wonder if they even have those.

Crazy Bimmer

This is one of the best selling minivans around and you guys still find ways to nitpick.

Its one sexy looking minivan. Oh gawd im getting old.

dom

I think it will do just fine despite its awkward looks. Low on HP but its a minivan so I doubt anyone will care. I bought an 07 with similar HP while there was a 266HP Sienna over at Toyota dealers so it won't matter for 99% of buyers.

I'd have liked to have seen remote entry and a standard back up camera. Oh well. The 2GB HD is a nice touch.

Costco

Really undecided on the design, maybe its the colors. The main part that looks really awkward is the quarter panel/window area, but as it's been mentioned, I don't think people buy minivans for their looks. In any case the interior looks to be better than the 2011 Sienna's.

Common sense things like having a power outlet in the back of the center console and cupholders on the back of the folding 2nd row seat are nice touches. Seems like there are a lot of goodies available though, aside from the omission of keyless ignition.

The quote referencing Hyundai's 2.0T is just another reminder of how Hyundai is the new Honda

dom

I'm impressed with Honda Canada's pricing. My 07 EX listed at $36,900, without RES. Now you can get an EX with RES, which isn't even available in the US for less. Its about time they got realistic with pricing up here. The current DX lists for $31,690. I hope lots are clear of 10's cause they'll have a hard time moving them.

Maybe I'll upgrade.

phile

they're behind the curve, and we keep hoping they would catch up and they just don't want to invest in it.

there is no reason why the 6-spd isn't across the board to help all the models get better mileage/performance. it'll only be a matter of time before someone else like Hyundai does so and Honda will find itself playing catch up...just like how the domestics used to.

Moog-Type-S

meh...I've been blabbing about keyless ignition on the Oddy forever.


Sure it will sell well.

Which makes me wonder with Honda going the hybrid route on everything....why not throw the IMA on the Oddy? Afterall VCM is a joke.

As for sexy....I don't think you are getting old....blind maybe, but not old.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't the turning radius suffer then? I wonder what the difference between the last gen and the current gen's wheelbase is.

SSFTSX

This stupid comparision. Forced induction engine does not have that long life of normall aspirated engine. There is no evidence that Forced induction make car lighter. or more fuel efficient.
This engine develops 250bhp @5700rpm. way lower rpm. I can forsee 30 year 600000 mile lifespan. 19/29 is big achievement. No turbo is going to achieve it.

Moog-Type-S

Those poor Acura RDX owners and their short life engines.

Honda is screwing them!!!!!!

Hapa DC5

Where did that number come from?

Moog-Type-S

Same place this came from

Hapa DC5

I only ask because I think Honda will make these engines go 100 years and 3,285,324 miles.

TSX69

Honda Cranks Up the Content on the New Odyssey

SAN DIEGO -- After a sequence of foul-tip product launches from Honda -- the Insight, CrossTour and CR-Z receiving mixed reviews at best -- getting the Odyssey minivan right was more than just crucial. It was essential.

The 7 lead engineers and chief designer have owned a total of 27 Odysseys, so they know firsthand what needed to be upgraded or improved.

The basics: The redesigned Odyssey is 2 inches wider, an inch longer, rides lower and is more aerodynamic than its predessor. Under the hood, the Odyssey will have a re-engineered version of its 3.5-liter V-6 engine, with variable cylinder management and an estimated 18/27 fuel economy.

As of now, the Odyssey is the only minivan with independent rear suspension. Combined with a more rigid body and subframe structure, that means more sensitive ride control and more precise handling. Honda made the brakes 1 inch larger in diameter, leading to claims of best-in-class stopping distances.

In addition to performance and features, Honda also made the vehicle more stylish, with a signature lightning-bolt beltline. Honda says the vehicle will get 5-star safety ratings in all measurements.

Notable features: The center console between the 2 front seats can hold a purse and is removable. Underneath the instrument panel is a “coolbox” that can hold a 6-pack of soda and which bleeds air after the evaporator, keeping items cold much longer than typical duct-fed coolers.


As for seating, the 2nd row can be fitted with 3child seats but also can pivot outward by 2 inches so 3 adults can sit in comfort. With 6 inches more legroom than the Toyota Sienna, the Odyssey's 3rd row has enough space for 3 full-sized adults -- and with seats that also recline. The cantilevered foldaway function for the 3rd-row seats is now performed with a single strap pull.

With the seats removed, the Odyssey can accommodate a 4-by-8 sheet of plywood, 3 mountain bikes or 10-foot 2-by-4 studs.

The entertainment system features a 16-inch hi-definition monitor with split-screen capability for kids quarrelling in the second row. The “song by voice” telematics system replicates the iPod operating system.

PHP Code:

     2011 Honda Odyssey    2011 Toyota Sienna V6
Wheelbase    118.1 in.    119.3 in.
Length    202.9 in.    200.2 in.
Width    79.2 in.    78.2 in.
Height    68.4 in.    68.9 in.
Base engine    3.5-liter V-6    3.5-liter V-6
Horsepower    248 @ 5,700 rpm    265 @ 6,200 rpm
Torque, lb-ft    250 @ 4,800 rpm    245 @ 4,700 rpm
Curb weight    4,337 lbs.    4,380 lbs.
Base price    $28,580    $26,510 


What Honda says: “We wanted to create a vehicle that got away from the conservative stigma applied to minivans,” said Catalin Matei, Odyssey chief designer, a father of 3 and owner of 7 Odysseys. Added chief engineer Art St. Cyr: “We had a hard time distinguishing minivans from across a parking lot.”

Compromises and shortcomings: The slide rail for the 2nd-row doors mars the sheet metal, but incorporating it into the beltline would have meant unacceptably crimping 4 inches of shoulder room in the 3rd-row seats. The 3rd-row windows do not pop open for venting. The base Odyssey has a 5-speed automatic; higher trim levels get a more costly 6-speed box. All-wheel drive will not be offered. Officials expressed doubts that a hybrid version will be added.

The market: The minivan segment is off 50% compared with the boom years. But unlike other segments, minivans may not be coming back to pre-recession numbers. Pricing was not available at press time.

The skinny: Although down on power compared to the Sienna's V-6, the Odyssey feels more nimble and accurate. The improvement in interior features, fitments and tactile surfaces means the segment has a new mark to shoot for. Honda nailed this one.

Shift_Acura

When did they actually test Hyundai's 2.0T engine?

TSX69

Despite Segment Weakness, Honda Aims High

SAN DIEGO -- The minivan segment may be in a swoon, but that isn’t stopping Honda from going all-in with its latest Odyssey.

“This is not your ordinary kid or cargo hauler,” said John Mendel, American Honda Motor Co. executive vice president.

The Odyssey is the top-volume nameplate in the minivan segment, although the Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country combine to outsell it. But the overall health of the segment began plummeting well before the recession hit.

U.S. minivan sales passed the million-a-year mark in 1993 and peaked in 2000 at 1.37 million. Then customers started abandoning the segment. In 2008, automakers sold just over 600,000. Last year's tally fell below 450,000.

By 2014, Mendel hopes, the segment will have returned to about 650,000 sales, but he isn’t holding out for much growth beyond that.

“This is not a recession-reliant slump,” Mendel said. “But social trends will lead to returned growth in the segment.”

That’s a big reason for a conservative volume estimate for the Odyssey. Once a consistent 150,000-unit seller, with a peak of 177,919 in 2006, the Odyssey’s new annual target is 110,000.

But the combination of Gen X and Gen Y families vastly outnumbers the baby boomer demographic that once fueled the original minivan boom.

That leads Odyssey chief engineer Art St. Cyr to hope for a better future for the segment. Gen X and Gen Y are likely to embrace family life and minivans -- Gen X because they were mostly latchkey kids, Gen Y because they seek closer family relationships, St. Cyr said.

Despite what might be an upward trend in minivan intenders, Honda also will market aggressively to “hesitators,” those who should buy a minivan but buy a crossover instead.

The Odyssey goes on sale Oct 1.

Crazy Bimmer

You officially went

You might want to tell all these engineers of the world that FI isnt the way to save fuel. They dont seem to share your knowledge.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Also tell that to my friend that's running a stage 3 turbo in his 1.8T Avant and getting 36MPG on the freeway.

dom

Can we please not throw any more fuel on the out of control barn fire that is SSFTSX.

fsttyms1

I guess the RDX is screwed then. Better send a letter to all the owners that their motor wont last.

Show us proof that this motor WONT last as long as a Honda motor YOU CANT, SO STOP POSTING USELESS INFORMATION!

dom

Just realized that EX and up get a 8" color display which includes a back up camera. Not bad at all.

So the only thing this van is missing IMO are remote entry (all trims would be nice) and bluetooth on trims below EX-L.