Honda: Development and Technology News
04-15-2006, 04:57 PM
#361
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't not own a Honda. Again, I do not make fanboi statements.
However, I would still like to apologize to you for PWNING you over and over. Some of the typical young fanbois in here in their 20's whose brains function no differently than when they were in hs (which is at the level of a walking vegetable), have an excuse. But you. You are not only complete with a mediocre education; you have developed enough to become a bonafide [mediocre-ly educated] bonehead (i.e., you're still dumb). You are also a deeply biased individual with ulterior motives, a wicked human being with jealousies that cause you to do conniving things. And this combination of dumb and bad is unacceptable.
I am only interested in the truth of things. If you're not, stay out of my way.
However, I would still like to apologize to you for PWNING you over and over. Some of the typical young fanbois in here in their 20's whose brains function no differently than when they were in hs (which is at the level of a walking vegetable), have an excuse. But you. You are not only complete with a mediocre education; you have developed enough to become a bonafide [mediocre-ly educated] bonehead (i.e., you're still dumb). You are also a deeply biased individual with ulterior motives, a wicked human being with jealousies that cause you to do conniving things. And this combination of dumb and bad is unacceptable.
I am only interested in the truth of things. If you're not, stay out of my way.
04-15-2006, 08:08 PM
#363
Safety Car
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Your comment about Honda engines that don't exist. Uh, they do exist, just not for the cars you were in the market for. Bingo. The production V8 isn't out yet but the Formula 1 V8 engine is producing the most HP. Precedence shows that Honda engines in whatever class outperform their competitors for any given displacement. When they don't, it is because Honda has purposely held back, e.g., SOHC instead of DOHC, etc. The great amount of precedence provides GREAT REASON to conclude that Honda engines CAN BE superior in any given class, if and when Honda chooses to do that. The amount of precedence is so great that there is REASONABLE DOUBT that another car company, especially Nissan, can match Honda's engine wizardry.
As far as Honda engine wizardy, think everyone here wants to deal with real world production engines for the consumer market. If Honda doesn't have any offerings available to line up against the comp. in various segments that people want to discuss, then imo Honda can't even be considered a real competitor no matter what their logic is or if they could build something. And if that means Honda doesn't have a v6 engine to go against Nissans newer vq offerings, then I have to agree, the VQ is clearly superior to what Honda is offering, plain and simple.
04-15-2006, 09:20 PM
#364
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by heyitsme
Hp/l has no practical value in any car, by itself, but it would seem that people add value to 'it' the majority of the time for their own personal reasons. Its just one element among many that have to be factored together to offer an real value to a consumer.
As far as Honda engine wizardy, think everyone here wants to deal with real world production engines for the consumer market. If Honda doesn't have any offerings available to line up against the comp. in various segments that people want to discuss, then imo Honda can't even be considered a real competitor no matter what their logic is or if they could build something. And if that means Honda doesn't have a v6 engine to go against Nissans newer vq offerings, then I have to agree, the VQ is clearly superior to what Honda is offering, plain and simple.
As far as Honda engine wizardy, think everyone here wants to deal with real world production engines for the consumer market. If Honda doesn't have any offerings available to line up against the comp. in various segments that people want to discuss, then imo Honda can't even be considered a real competitor no matter what their logic is or if they could build something. And if that means Honda doesn't have a v6 engine to go against Nissans newer vq offerings, then I have to agree, the VQ is clearly superior to what Honda is offering, plain and simple.
The next question is: Is HP the major factor for you? If that's primarily why you bought a certain car over the RL, then you should qualify that, instead of refraining from disclosing common criticisms and historical concerns about that engine and jumping on the ego protection bandwagon, like some people here have done.
The fact is I haven't made a single controversial statement. One needs to read my words with great care because I am extremely detailed and I mean only what I say. If that is difficult, then I would suggest that some of these people redo their education by taking cognitive psychology and neuroscience. Even after that, it isn't guaranteed they'll have a new perspective on this world and themselves.
04-15-2006, 09:33 PM
#365
Safety Car
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: philly
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Superior in HP, which is only ONE factor among many. To deem an engine superior, you'd have to go through all the major factors.
The next question is: Is HP the major factor for you? If that's primarily why you bought a certain car over the RL, then you should qualify that, instead of refraining from disclosing common criticisms and historical concerns about that engine and jumping on the ego protection bandwagon, like some people here have done.
The next question is: Is HP the major factor for you? If that's primarily why you bought a certain car over the RL, then you should qualify that, instead of refraining from disclosing common criticisms and historical concerns about that engine and jumping on the ego protection bandwagon, like some people here have done.
"Superior in hp, which is only ONE factor among many"
Please list the many others, I only have a few such as Rpms power is applied at/Torque/ smoothness.
Is Hp the major factor for me? Comparing lets say 4 cars in the same class with similiar prices- vehicles with higher power outputs for the same money would be considered plusses imo, not negatives. That also has to be compared with accerleration times. If a car with less power accelerates faster than a car with more power, the car with lesser power gets the nod, etc.
04-15-2006, 09:38 PM
#366
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Your play on words, mrdeeno, is cliche. You sound like a typical humanities/pre-law major, although it appears you are actually a dime a dozen engineer.
...
Your wordplay is at such a mundane level to me but I realize how you can influence and manipulate young and uneducated fanbois.
...
Your liking for the phrase "failed to" is actually very very common and dumb. I call these semantics "lawyer's words."
...
This complex interaction of language and ego is a fundamental essential reason for SHITHEADS, which include 99.9999999% of the world's population.
....
Do you realize how dumb you are? And I'm saying this from strong inferences that I'm able to make BEHIND the words you say, the truth and reality BEHIND telegraphed by your words. Independently, when I focus on the WHO behind your words, I conclude that I would like to do a BIG SMELLY SHIT ON YOUR FACE.
No reason for personal attacks sir. You've been warned.
04-15-2006, 09:41 PM
#367
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
I don't not own a Honda. Again, I do not make fanboi statements.
However, I would still like to apologize to you for PWNING you over and over. Some of the typical young fanbois in here in their 20's whose brains function no differently than when they were in hs (which is at the level of a walking vegetable), have an excuse. But you. You are not only complete with a mediocre education; you have developed enough to become a bonafide [mediocre-ly educated] bonehead (i.e., you're still dumb). You are also a deeply biased individual with ulterior motives, a wicked human being with jealousies that cause you to do conniving things. And this combination of dumb and bad is unacceptable.
I am only interested in the truth of things. If you're not, stay out of my way.
However, I would still like to apologize to you for PWNING you over and over. Some of the typical young fanbois in here in their 20's whose brains function no differently than when they were in hs (which is at the level of a walking vegetable), have an excuse. But you. You are not only complete with a mediocre education; you have developed enough to become a bonafide [mediocre-ly educated] bonehead (i.e., you're still dumb). You are also a deeply biased individual with ulterior motives, a wicked human being with jealousies that cause you to do conniving things. And this combination of dumb and bad is unacceptable.
I am only interested in the truth of things. If you're not, stay out of my way.
04-15-2006, 09:45 PM
#369
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
One needs to read my words with great care because I am extremely detailed and I mean only what I say. If that is difficult, then I would suggest that some of these people redo their education by taking cognitive psychology and neuroscience. Even after that, it isn't guaranteed they'll have a new perspective on this world and themselves.
Everyone else is dumb and only you deserve respect. That's what I am getting from the above. Am I wrong?
04-15-2006, 09:50 PM
#370
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by heyitsme
"Superior in hp, which is only ONE factor among many"
Please list the many others, I only have a few such as Rpms power is applied at/Torque/ smoothness.
Is Hp the major factor for me? Comparing lets say 4 cars in the same class with similiar prices- vehicles with higher power outputs for the same money would be considered plusses imo, not negatives. That also has to be compared with accerleration times. If a car with less power accelerates faster than a car with more power, the car with lesser power gets the nod, etc.
Please list the many others, I only have a few such as Rpms power is applied at/Torque/ smoothness.
Is Hp the major factor for me? Comparing lets say 4 cars in the same class with similiar prices- vehicles with higher power outputs for the same money would be considered plusses imo, not negatives. That also has to be compared with accerleration times. If a car with less power accelerates faster than a car with more power, the car with lesser power gets the nod, etc.
04-15-2006, 09:54 PM
#371
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gavriil
You really think you're something very special, dont you?
Everyone else is dumb and only you deserve respect. That's what I am getting from the above. Am I wrong?
Everyone else is dumb and only you deserve respect. That's what I am getting from the above. Am I wrong?
04-15-2006, 09:59 PM
#372
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gavriil
No reason for personal attacks sir. You've been warned.
04-15-2006, 09:59 PM
#373
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
That's not what I'm doing, not at all. I am responding to a few people who have chosen to create controversy and weave their own agenda. And basically what I'm telling these people is do not subject me to their agendas. I haven't INITIATED anything negative at all.
Your play on words, mrdeeno, is cliche. You sound like a typical humanities/pre-law major, although it appears you are actually a dime a dozen engineer.
...
Your wordplay is at such a mundane level to me but I realize how you can influence and manipulate young and uneducated fanbois.
...
Your liking for the phrase "failed to" is actually very very common and dumb. I call these semantics "lawyer's words."
...
This complex interaction of language and ego is a fundamental essential reason for SHITHEADS, which include 99.9999999% of the world's population.
....
Do you realize how dumb you are? And I'm saying this from strong inferences that I'm able to make BEHIND the words you say, the truth and reality BEHIND telegraphed by your words. Independently, when I focus on the WHO behind your words, I conclude that I would like to do a BIG SMELLY SHIT ON YOUR FACE.
...
Your wordplay is at such a mundane level to me but I realize how you can influence and manipulate young and uneducated fanbois.
...
Your liking for the phrase "failed to" is actually very very common and dumb. I call these semantics "lawyer's words."
...
This complex interaction of language and ego is a fundamental essential reason for SHITHEADS, which include 99.9999999% of the world's population.
....
Do you realize how dumb you are? And I'm saying this from strong inferences that I'm able to make BEHIND the words you say, the truth and reality BEHIND telegraphed by your words. Independently, when I focus on the WHO behind your words, I conclude that I would like to do a BIG SMELLY SHIT ON YOUR FACE.
04-15-2006, 10:03 PM
#374
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Ok, I apologize, but that list is classic. Yes I have a facility with words but I never argue with semantics, only with substance. But man, that last one is hilarious, you must agree. Were you laughing out of control with some of those liners?
04-15-2006, 10:05 PM
#375
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Ok, I apologize, but that list is classic.
Do not apologize to me. Apologize to the people you attacked.
On a funny note however, because of one of your posts about 99.9999% of the polulation being "this and that", I will accept your apology because I feel I am part of that ratio above.
04-15-2006, 10:07 PM
#376
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
That's not what I'm doing, not at all. I am responding to a few people who have chosen to create controversy and weave their own agenda. And basically what I'm telling these people is do not subject me to their agendas. I haven't INITIATED anything negative at all.
By the way, everyone has an agenda. Even when they do not know they have one, they still do. Everyone with opinions about anything in life, has an agenda.
Again, the point is to argue that agenda without personal attacks.
04-15-2006, 10:13 PM
#377
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check the other 2 threads in the other forum. One of those threads was closed because of me and mrdeeno. Mrdeeno jumped on me unnecessarily in the closed thread. When he did, I reviewed just a few of his posts (before I first posted) in that thread and saw a pattern in his ascerbic nature. I complained to the moderator there, and he closed the thread. This thread has been an extension of that thread. If you go back to mrdeeno's post #92, you'll see that's where he engages me with sarcastic insults. He let things spill into this thread. He was the instigator.
I agree completely. Opinions are opinions. You should never attack someone personally, although you can openly disagree with others' opinions. My "personal attacks" are all responses to mrdeeno's instigation.
I agree completely. Opinions are opinions. You should never attack someone personally, although you can openly disagree with others' opinions. My "personal attacks" are all responses to mrdeeno's instigation.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-15-2006 at 10:17 PM.
04-15-2006, 10:16 PM
#378
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Check the other 2 threads in the other forum. One of those threads was closed because of me and mrdeeno. Mrdeeno jumped on me unnecessarily in the closed thread. When he did, I reviewed just a few of his posts (before I first posted) in that thread and saw a pattern in his ascerbic nature. I complained to the moderator there, and he closed the thread. This thread has been an extension of that thread. If you go back to mrdeeno's post #92, you'll see that's where he engages me with sarcastic insults. He let things spill into this thread. He was the instigator.
However, if you agree with my sole point, which is, no personal attacks, would it not be smarter to, instead of wasting more energy on who did what and who started what, to instead put that energy back into the pertinent discussions?
04-15-2006, 10:19 PM
#380
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gavriil
Provide links of personal attacks and anyone will be warned.
However, if you agree with my sole point, which is, no personal attacks, would it not be smarter to, instead of wasting more energy on who did what and who started what, to instead put that energy back into the pertinent discussions?
However, if you agree with my sole point, which is, no personal attacks, would it not be smarter to, instead of wasting more energy on who did what and who started what, to instead put that energy back into the pertinent discussions?
04-15-2006, 10:20 PM
#381
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Why worry about what Nissan does? If and when Honda chooses, Honda has the ability to pump out more HP per liter than any other car company in the world, including Ferrari, BMW, and Porsche. All Honda has to do is snap a finger and they will rule that segment of the horsepower wars.
The bottom line is if Honda chooses to enter into the HP wars, they will absolutely win. But of course, Honda tends to wait til the last second, so the question is when will they move forward.
The bottom line is if Honda chooses to enter into the HP wars, they will absolutely win. But of course, Honda tends to wait til the last second, so the question is when will they move forward.
Well why dont they then?
Also, why should anyone care about HP/liter ? (although many do, I am asking why should they?)
04-15-2006, 10:25 PM
#382
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Although that is the most VISIBLE area where Infiniti is lacking, another even more critical one is the mating of platform to suspension. This is the area where Le Cost Cutter Ghosn saved most of the money from minimizing R&D. He cleverly advertised the results as "sportier ride." Instead, magazines translated that as a sort of "rough ride" that is independent of sporty. What mags? Are you kidding? Almost EVERY major mag out there. A common comment is a kind of roughness to the ride that indicates that Nissan put the car on the market before the R&D was finished. Yes, this was a very very very common remark across a ton of mags for a bunch of Nissans/Infinitis, including the Altima, Maxima, Murano, Titan, FX, Q, and yes EVEN THE NEW M (however, only 1 major mag mentioned this for the new M; most were simply focused on its HP). (Note that Mazda's chassis are every bit as sporty, better balanced, and without the negatives observed in ALMOST EVERY GHOSN ERA CAR). In addition, the Altima and Maxima were singled out by many major mags for the observation that, while cornering at speed, it seemed as if the car wanted to continue going forward for a split second before finally following the tires around the corner. They go on to conclude that the platform is not mated to the suspension correctly as if Nissan put the car out onto the market before R&D was finished.
I refused to buy the G35 coupe partly because the interior looks like it's from the late 80's but mostly because I couldn't take a chance on whatever shortcut Nissan may have taken with chassis engineering, R&D, and tuning.
I refused to buy the G35 coupe partly because the interior looks like it's from the late 80's but mostly because I couldn't take a chance on whatever shortcut Nissan may have taken with chassis engineering, R&D, and tuning.
04-15-2006, 10:27 PM
#383
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Uh, the blanket statement IS true. You have listed a bunch of "secondary" or "modular" items that can be applied to any engine, including things that Honda either invented or developed.
There is nothing all that special about the VQ. That is a fact. The VQ is one of the most important engines in the world BECAUSE of its pervasive influence throughout Nissan's lineup. Its recognition is more about it great socio-cultural influence on Nissan and the automotive industry, not its engineering excellence. Its societal influence goes hand-in-hand with the 350z/G35 phenomenon, which is so amazing that I would have to say that those 2 cars drive the entire market segment and have even largely performed (in sales) independently of market forces that negatively affect other cars in the market. It's approached cult status and those 2 forces, the cars and the engine, have reinforced each other's image in a way that is independent of technological superiority or engineering excellence.
So the VQ has had many years to reify such an image. Honda came out relatively later with its V6's; thus, Honda has more of a reputation for inline-4's than V6's, no surprise here. However, the fact is the Honda V6's are more refined (whether in SOHC or DOHC form, etc), smoother, better MPG, and more HP per displacement. Of course Honda has chosen not to use its DOHC V6 in its regular passenger cars, and this is the real issue.
There is nothing all that special about the VQ. That is a fact. The VQ is one of the most important engines in the world BECAUSE of its pervasive influence throughout Nissan's lineup. Its recognition is more about it great socio-cultural influence on Nissan and the automotive industry, not its engineering excellence. Its societal influence goes hand-in-hand with the 350z/G35 phenomenon, which is so amazing that I would have to say that those 2 cars drive the entire market segment and have even largely performed (in sales) independently of market forces that negatively affect other cars in the market. It's approached cult status and those 2 forces, the cars and the engine, have reinforced each other's image in a way that is independent of technological superiority or engineering excellence.
So the VQ has had many years to reify such an image. Honda came out relatively later with its V6's; thus, Honda has more of a reputation for inline-4's than V6's, no surprise here. However, the fact is the Honda V6's are more refined (whether in SOHC or DOHC form, etc), smoother, better MPG, and more HP per displacement. Of course Honda has chosen not to use its DOHC V6 in its regular passenger cars, and this is the real issue.
Every time I drove the VQ, I loved it. I drove it in the Maxima, in the Z, in the G and others. And I am not talking about test drives, I am talking renting these cars for several days.
I still remember how that engine felt in the last Z I drove. I called it a "small V8" in how it felt. Addicting mid-range torque characteristics, in all iterations.
04-15-2006, 10:55 PM
#385
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: H-town
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Review some of my posts. The awards it has received are not due to engineering excellence. People, YOU NEED TO GET TO UNDERSTAND THIS. The awards are given primarily because of the VQ's enormous influence Nissan's success. In addition, there is a lot of emotion and sentiment as well behind it because Nissan came back from the brink of destruction and a large part of it was because of the widespread use of the engine. If you find this hard to believe, I will direct you to the Renesis rotary in the RX8, which won the award the first year it was out, during which Wards explicitly cited Mazda should be commended for its COURAGE to go it alone and continue to development the engine has a true alternative technology. PLEASE, Nissan fanbois, stop propagating myth.
directing me to the Renesis rotaty would prove nothing
04-15-2006, 11:10 PM
#386
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gavriil
Well why dont they then?
Also, why should anyone care about HP/liter ? (although many do, I am asking why should they?)
Also, why should anyone care about HP/liter ? (although many do, I am asking why should they?)
At the car-to-car level, one can state that the M offers a V8 and the RL doesn't. At this point, that person can say he's on the verge of choosing the M45, but not so fast. Why? Because he now has to (or should) investigate pros AND cons of that car or engine ALL ON ITS OWN. Obviously, it wouldn't be prudent to buy a car just because it has a V8 IF that engine has a history of certain problems that you didn't know about or didn't care about (1st mistake). Shouldn't you research the engine on its own to make sure it doesn't have serious concerns? If you discover some concerns, the next step is to decide if you want to assume the risk. If you consciously decide to take the risk, that's fine, but you should always qualify your purchase and the way you present that car to others. The V8 in the M45 has a history of a certain problem. If you bought that car and then came into this forum criticizing the RL and its lack of a V8 BUT refrained from disclosing negative information about the M and its engine and in fact go on and on about how wonderful the car is, then that's a deceptive and manipulative agenda (mistake #2).
On an independent line of thinking, engine-to-engine comparisons can also be done. But obviously, if we engage in this conversation, we have to avoid interweaving car-to-car analysis, which would be totally invalid. It's not so much why would anyone compare HP/liter. It's that when you compare engine to engine, you have to classify according to displacement, and within the context of displacement, the amount of HP from that displacement is AS RELEVANT and VALID as is a focus on HP alone and in fact, at one level, identical. In other words, if we equalized the displacement of all engines in the world, then it essentially becomes a pure HP consideration.
04-15-2006, 11:14 PM
#387
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gavriil
I mostly agree here. Most Nissan/Infinit offerings drive harsh. ANd I am sure there have been shortcuts taken by the cash strapped Nissan during the past few years. However I am guessing this will change going forward.
04-15-2006, 11:17 PM
#388
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
the VQ came out in '95 when Nissan was still struggling and it won awards all the way up til '01 when it was only offered in one car, the MAX
directing me to the Renesis rotaty would prove nothing
directing me to the Renesis rotaty would prove nothing
04-16-2006, 12:41 AM
#389
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
The V8 in the M45 has a history of a certain problem..
Can you please tell us what this certain problem is? I'm sure there's many of us here who are dying to know.
04-16-2006, 01:01 AM
#390
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 56
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Can you please tell us what this certain problem is? I'm sure there's many of us here who are dying to know.
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
04-16-2006, 04:16 AM
#391
Pro
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: us 'n a
Age: 44
Posts: 693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
LOL, thanks for jacking my post and not even leaving a link or name credit for either the source (an acura tech) or the analyst (me). 
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=71356
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=71356
as I rarely visit v6p. In fact, blame v6pmemba who send me both paragraphs exactly as I posted.
04-16-2006, 10:37 AM
#392
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
As you know, I have required you to disclose it to everyone. I know that you know what it is and you are keeping it tight. As I mentioned before, you have sat on your tiny pedestal and demanded others to answer your whim. Now I reverse the situation.
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
2) You brought up a "certain" problem. Why should it be anyone else's responsibility to disclose something YOU brought up?
04-16-2006, 10:42 AM
#393
Three Wheelin'
soooo.... how about that Honda V6/V8 
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou
04-16-2006, 10:43 AM
#394
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
1) The warning tags on the seatbelt bottoms flap when all my windows are down in 60mph+ speeds.
2) I average 15-17mpg, but this is due to the way i drive and the aggressive gearing.
3) Should've gotten a color besides black.
Are you going to continue to tell me about the problems that don't exist, but that I'm hiding? i have researched this car and hung out on many message boards with people who own this car before buying one, and there were and are currently very FEW problems with this car, and ZERO problems in my specific car, unlike my high and mighty ACURA i had before it.
04-16-2006, 10:46 AM
#395
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,124
Received 4,824 Likes
on
2,571 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
As you know, I have required you to disclose it to everyone. I know that you know what it is and you are keeping it tight. As I mentioned before, you have sat on your tiny pedestal and demanded others to answer your whim. Now I reverse the situation.
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
How much do I have pay a Mega Mod to permenantly just this jackass up?
04-16-2006, 10:59 AM
#396
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by vishnus11
soooo.... how about that Honda V6/V8
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou
And all his execs and vp's will be androids...again like that japaenese dude from robocop 3.
But back OT:
Honda production engines (that exist) are great, but they don't rule all. Nissan's VQ engines are great too and they earn rewards for it year after year. Does this prove anything? Not really.
Does Nissan engineer "flaws" into their engines and cars? No, they engineer the engine to their specs and designs, and the flaws that exist are incidental, and if they are negligible flaws, then the flaws are overlooked.
Look at the current RX-8 Renesis engine...that small displacement engine burns oil like a mutha-fukker, but it's "part of the design". Is it a flaw or is it operating according to "spec"? If it's part of the design, it's part of the spec...it's just high maintenance.
Does Honda do the same thing. I'm 100% sure they do. No mechanical product as complex as a car engine is flawless. If you wanted a flawless engine, that handbuilt muther would cost you at least $1M, and I still doubt it would be without flaws. And any flaws that are overlooked that later come up as major problems are recalled, much like the acura tranny, the toyota sludge problem, or the nissan Z/G suspension & tire problem.
But in the end, I would've bought the RL if it had a V8...unless they decided to stick a v8 from GM in there or yamaha in there.
Last edited by mrdeeno; 04-16-2006 at 11:03 AM.
04-16-2006, 11:05 AM
#397
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
In post #105, I addressed the confusion and inconsistency with HP versus HP/liter thinking. These 2 factors interact with the 2 levels of analysis (car-versus-car and engine-versus-engine thinking) that I outlined in post #172. It is the interaction between the 4 variables that lead to confusion and often logically invalid and/or inconsistent lines of reasoning.
At the car-to-car level, one can state that the M offers a V8 and the RL doesn't. At this point, that person can say he's on the verge of choosing the M45, but not so fast. Why? Because he now has to (or should) investigate pros AND cons of that car or engine ALL ON ITS OWN. Obviously, it wouldn't be prudent to buy a car just because it has a V8 IF that engine has a history of certain problems that you didn't know about or didn't care about (1st mistake). Shouldn't you research the engine on its own to make sure it doesn't have serious concerns? If you discover some concerns, the next step is to decide if you want to assume the risk. If you consciously decide to take the risk, that's fine, but you should always qualify your purchase and the way you present that car to others. The V8 in the M45 has a history of a certain problem. If you bought that car and then came into this forum criticizing the RL and its lack of a V8 BUT refrained from disclosing negative information about the M and its engine and in fact go on and on about how wonderful the car is, then that's a deceptive and manipulative agenda (mistake #2).
On an independent line of thinking, engine-to-engine comparisons can also be done. But obviously, if we engage in this conversation, we have to avoid interweaving car-to-car analysis, which would be totally invalid. It's not so much why would anyone compare HP/liter. It's that when you compare engine to engine, you have to classify according to displacement, and within the context of displacement, the amount of HP from that displacement is AS RELEVANT and VALID as is a focus on HP alone and in fact, at one level, identical. In other words, if we equalized the displacement of all engines in the world, then it essentially becomes a pure HP consideration.
At the car-to-car level, one can state that the M offers a V8 and the RL doesn't. At this point, that person can say he's on the verge of choosing the M45, but not so fast. Why? Because he now has to (or should) investigate pros AND cons of that car or engine ALL ON ITS OWN. Obviously, it wouldn't be prudent to buy a car just because it has a V8 IF that engine has a history of certain problems that you didn't know about or didn't care about (1st mistake). Shouldn't you research the engine on its own to make sure it doesn't have serious concerns? If you discover some concerns, the next step is to decide if you want to assume the risk. If you consciously decide to take the risk, that's fine, but you should always qualify your purchase and the way you present that car to others. The V8 in the M45 has a history of a certain problem. If you bought that car and then came into this forum criticizing the RL and its lack of a V8 BUT refrained from disclosing negative information about the M and its engine and in fact go on and on about how wonderful the car is, then that's a deceptive and manipulative agenda (mistake #2).
On an independent line of thinking, engine-to-engine comparisons can also be done. But obviously, if we engage in this conversation, we have to avoid interweaving car-to-car analysis, which would be totally invalid. It's not so much why would anyone compare HP/liter. It's that when you compare engine to engine, you have to classify according to displacement, and within the context of displacement, the amount of HP from that displacement is AS RELEVANT and VALID as is a focus on HP alone and in fact, at one level, identical. In other words, if we equalized the displacement of all engines in the world, then it essentially becomes a pure HP consideration.
I also believe that what matter is total HP in the end, not hp/liter. Of course to deem an engine a superior engine, one has to take into consideration other factors also, but I do not believe in the myth of "better hp/liter = better engine, no matter what "better" means".
04-16-2006, 11:06 AM
#398
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
The socio-cultural tidal wave has taken over since the early years with regard to awards. But back in the early years, what competitors had V6's at the same displacement to challenge the VQ?
The VQ still gets awards to this day. The reason is because it is a great V6 from many different angles. And it is getting better with the Infiniti iterations.
04-16-2006, 11:07 AM
#399
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
As you know, I have required you to disclose it to everyone. I know that you know what it is and you are keeping it tight. As I mentioned before, you have sat on your tiny pedestal and demanded others to answer your whim. Now I reverse the situation.
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
In fact, why don't you list all the issues of your M45 or do you think it's unnecessary? If so, maybe your opinion is unnecessary?
04-16-2006, 11:09 AM
#400
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally Posted by vishnus11
soooo.... how about that Honda V6/V8
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou
This is what I have gathered from this thread...
Honda engines stink. VQ is the almighty great. But Nissan/Infiniti platforms stink donkey balls. And Honda's platforms are great. Therefore Nissan and Honda are merging together to form one super car company, "Honissan" where Honda platformed cars will be powered by VQ engines (the 3.0 liter versions of the VQ of course because the 3.5 is too harsh). Don't foget this company will have a luxury division called Acuriniti who will build SH-RWD cars.
Thankyou