Honda: Development and Technology News
07-27-2015, 12:38 PM
#2401
Team Owner
Turbo > NA
07-27-2015, 12:39 PM
#2402
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
TB be granny shifting, not double clutching 
07-27-2015, 12:40 PM
#2403
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
The big question is can TB blow Justn away
07-27-2015, 12:41 PM
#2405
Team Owner
"It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning."
07-27-2015, 12:48 PM
#2408
Team Owner
Again, I think you're forgetting the sonata delivers max torque early on, as opposed to the TL which is likely in the 5000 rpm range. I dunno why you don't believe me. I've been driving stick for years and know how to launch a car fairly well, not to mention wifey was driving a slush box Sonata.
TL puts down 258hp @6200 and 233 ftlb @5000.
Sonata puts down 274hp @6000 and 269 ftlb@1750.
You think I'm happy saying the sonata is faster?
07-27-2015, 12:55 PM
#2409
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I have a couple of friends with 2.0Ts.. One sonata and the other a VW CC. The initial dig is almost like an electric car. They're pretty quick early on.
Justn, I doubt TB got a good dig and probably just a short race (read under the posted speed limit, eh) for shits. TL MT would definitely make up any ground lost early on.
Justn, I doubt TB got a good dig and probably just a short race (read under the posted speed limit, eh) for shits. TL MT would definitely make up any ground lost early on.
I can take 350 small block v8's.
07-27-2015, 01:07 PM
#2411
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
And he likes cleaning it up 
07-27-2015, 01:11 PM
#2412
Senior Moderator
07-27-2015, 01:14 PM
#2413
Senior Moderator
Thread derailing aside..
Honda Unveils 2016 Accord at R&D Center in Silicon Valley, Emphasizing a Focus on Tech - The CIO Report - WSJ
Did anyone see this news regarding a new R&D Facility in Silicon Valley?
Honda Unveils 2016 Accord at R&D Center in Silicon Valley, Emphasizing a Focus on Tech - The CIO Report - WSJ
Did anyone see this news regarding a new R&D Facility in Silicon Valley?
Honda Motor Co.HMC 0.00%, Thursday, unveiled its 2016 Honda Accord at the grand opening of its expanded Silicon Valley research and development center here. The company said the vehicle features many technology upgrades and it’s the first vehicle the company has ever launched at its U.S. tech hub.
07-27-2015, 07:47 PM
#2414
I'm the Firestarter
07-27-2015, 10:51 PM
#2415
Again, I think you're forgetting the sonata delivers max torque early on, as opposed to the TL which is likely in the 5000 rpm range. I dunno why you don't believe me. I've been driving stick for years and know how to launch a car fairly well, not to mention wifey was driving a slush box Sonata.
TL puts down 258hp @6200 and 233 ftlb @5000.
Sonata puts down 274hp @6000 and 269 ftlb@1750.
You think I'm happy saying the sonata is faster?
07-28-2015, 11:45 AM
#2416
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lol TB it's all about the launch and shifting.
2011 Hyundai Sonata SE 2.0T Test ? Long-Term Review ? Car and Driver
0-60mph: 6.1s
1/4 mile: 14.5@99-100mph
Those numbers are quite close to the 2004 TL 6MT:
0-60mph: 5.7s
1/4 mile: 14.4@99mph
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...a-tl-specs.pdf
You will need a strong, clean launch to match the Sonata.
The Accord V6 is a different animal though as it easily traps over 100mph in the 1/4 mile. And it's a really big difference compared to the latest Sonata 2.0T. Not sure why there's such a huge drop in power and performance with the new car....
2011 Hyundai Sonata SE 2.0T Test ? Long-Term Review ? Car and Driver
0-60mph: 6.1s
1/4 mile: 14.5@99-100mph
Those numbers are quite close to the 2004 TL 6MT:
0-60mph: 5.7s
1/4 mile: 14.4@99mph
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...a-tl-specs.pdf
You will need a strong, clean launch to match the Sonata.
The Accord V6 is a different animal though as it easily traps over 100mph in the 1/4 mile. And it's a really big difference compared to the latest Sonata 2.0T. Not sure why there's such a huge drop in power and performance with the new car....
07-28-2015, 11:49 AM
#2417
Team Owner
Keep in mind, elevation will play a role on those numbers too, especially withy the Sonata
07-28-2015, 11:55 AM
#2418
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yup, hence the use of numbers from reputable publications. The numbers are corrected based on weather, altitude, etc. At higher elevations, your sonata should have an advantage.
07-28-2015, 12:03 PM
#2419
Team Owner
Wouldn't it be the other way around? Lower numbers in lower altitude? Turbo would be pushing more air...
07-28-2015, 12:08 PM
#2420
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Advantages | BorgWarner Turbo Systems
The high-altitude performance of a turbocharged engine is significantly better. Because of the lower air pressure at high altitudes, the power loss of a naturally aspirated engine is considerable. In contrast, the performance of the turbine improves at altitude as a result of the greater pressure difference between the virtually constant pressure upstream of the turbine and the lower ambient pressure at outlet. The lower air density at the compressor inlet is largely equalized. Hence, the engine has barely any power loss.
Last edited by iforyou; 07-28-2015 at 12:11 PM.
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07-30-2015, 08:55 PM
#2421
Azine Jabroni
'Baby NSX' Could Be Sold In The U.S. As A Honda: Report
If the 2016 Acura NSX proves too dear for you, here's some potentially uplifting news. Speculation continues about a "baby NSX" model that will slot below the high-tech hybrid in Honda's global lineup, as a more mainstream sports car rather than a limited-production supercar.
A new report claims that development of this model is proceeding steadily. The baby NSX will use the same platform as the full-size model, but with a less expensive powertrain, reports Australia's Motoring. That means the finished product could look a lot like its big brother, similar to the way McLaren's "Super Series" and smaller "Sports Series" models resemble each other.
The powertrain will reportedly be a hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive setup similar in design to the one used in the regular NSX, but with a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine substituted for the twin-turbocharged V-6. Four-wheel steering could be part of the package, too.
The report claims a major reason for building this car is to mollify U.S. Honda dealers who, unlike their counterparts in other markets, don't get a halo car. The NSX is sold as a Honda outside the U.S., but as an Acura only here. That means the reverse will be true of the "baby," and it will be badged as a Honda in the U.S.
Given that American focus, it perhaps wouldn't be surprising if the baby NSX was built alongside the bigger model in Ohio. That's reportedly one option Honda is considering, along with the Yokkaichi, Japan, plant that currently builds three mid-engined models--the S660 sports car, and Vamos and Acty vans.
Motoring's anonymous source claims that development work on the baby NSX is pretty far along, calling the exterior "for all intents and purposes, completed." That leads the Australians to speculate that the car could debut as early as the 2015 Los Angeles Auto Show in November, or the 2016 Detroit Auto Show in January.
A new report claims that development of this model is proceeding steadily. The baby NSX will use the same platform as the full-size model, but with a less expensive powertrain, reports Australia's Motoring. That means the finished product could look a lot like its big brother, similar to the way McLaren's "Super Series" and smaller "Sports Series" models resemble each other.
The powertrain will reportedly be a hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive setup similar in design to the one used in the regular NSX, but with a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine substituted for the twin-turbocharged V-6. Four-wheel steering could be part of the package, too.
The report claims a major reason for building this car is to mollify U.S. Honda dealers who, unlike their counterparts in other markets, don't get a halo car. The NSX is sold as a Honda outside the U.S., but as an Acura only here. That means the reverse will be true of the "baby," and it will be badged as a Honda in the U.S.
Given that American focus, it perhaps wouldn't be surprising if the baby NSX was built alongside the bigger model in Ohio. That's reportedly one option Honda is considering, along with the Yokkaichi, Japan, plant that currently builds three mid-engined models--the S660 sports car, and Vamos and Acty vans.
Motoring's anonymous source claims that development work on the baby NSX is pretty far along, calling the exterior "for all intents and purposes, completed." That leads the Australians to speculate that the car could debut as early as the 2015 Los Angeles Auto Show in November, or the 2016 Detroit Auto Show in January.
07-30-2015, 10:19 PM
#2422
The baby NSX will use the same platform as the full-size model, but with a less expensive powertrain.
The powertrain will reportedly be a hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive setup similar in design to the one used in the regular NSX, but with a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine substituted for the twin-turbocharged V-6. Four-wheel steering could be part of the package, too.
The powertrain will reportedly be a hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive setup similar in design to the one used in the regular NSX, but with a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine substituted for the twin-turbocharged V-6. Four-wheel steering could be part of the package, too.
Honda doesn't really need a halo car. Honda's doing just fine. Acura's the one who desperately needs a halo car to help the brand shine. Acura also desperately needs a true luxury flagship sedan. Hey, Honda! Try spending some time and money on growing and further differentiating the Acura brand from Honda and not making Honda more like Acura.
The report claims a major reason for building this car is to mollify U.S. Honda dealers who, unlike their counterparts in other markets, don't get a halo car.
07-31-2015, 12:47 AM
#2423
Race Director
This is part of the S2000 rumor mill that started in June which Honda keeps denying. This will be more vaporware that gets shelved at hint of the next market downturn.
07-31-2015, 01:11 PM
#2424
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Another Honda product to encroach into Acura territory?
Honda doesn't really need a halo car. Honda's doing just fine. Acura's the one who desperately needs a halo car to help the brand shine. Acura also desperately needs a true luxury flagship sedan. Hey, Honda! Try spending some time and money on growing and further differentiating the Acura brand from Honda and not making Honda more like Acura.
If Honda grew Acura into a global luxury brand, then they wouldn't have this problem. The halo car in other markets would be an Acura, not a Honda.
Honda doesn't really need a halo car. Honda's doing just fine. Acura's the one who desperately needs a halo car to help the brand shine. Acura also desperately needs a true luxury flagship sedan. Hey, Honda! Try spending some time and money on growing and further differentiating the Acura brand from Honda and not making Honda more like Acura.
If Honda grew Acura into a global luxury brand, then they wouldn't have this problem. The halo car in other markets would be an Acura, not a Honda.
The new NSX will be Acura`s halo car, and the new baby NSX will be Honda`s halo car.
It wasn`t too long ago that people were saying all Honda has is the Civic Si as its sports car. I think a S2000 replacement is nice to have.
07-31-2015, 01:36 PM
#2425
Azine Jabroni
I think it`s sort of like how in the "old days" Acura had the NSX and Honda had the S2000.
The new NSX will be Acura`s halo car, and the new baby NSX will be Honda`s halo car.
It wasn`t too long ago that people were saying all Honda has is the Civic Si as its sports car. I think a S2000 replacement is nice to have.
The new NSX will be Acura`s halo car, and the new baby NSX will be Honda`s halo car.
It wasn`t too long ago that people were saying all Honda has is the Civic Si as its sports car. I think a S2000 replacement is nice to have.
Acura:
NSX ($150,000 car)
(Car missing here)
RLX ($60,000 car that should be a $35,000 car)
TLX ($35,000 car)
Honda should put the Baby NSX between the NSX and TLX to attempt to bolster the Acura brand.
07-31-2015, 01:46 PM
#2426
Team Owner
S2000 replacement is definitely nice to have. But not an AWD, 2.0T, PAWS with battery.
That is not an S2000.
That is not an S2000.
08-04-2015, 04:22 PM
#2427
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That sort of makes sense, except it totally screws up the stratification of the brand.
Acura:
NSX ($150,000 car)
(Car missing here)
RLX ($60,000 car that should be a $35,000 car)
TLX ($35,000 car)
Honda should put the Baby NSX between the NSX and TLX to attempt to bolster the Acura brand.
Acura:
NSX ($150,000 car)
(Car missing here)
RLX ($60,000 car that should be a $35,000 car)
TLX ($35,000 car)
Honda should put the Baby NSX between the NSX and TLX to attempt to bolster the Acura brand.
But then their 5-series competitor isn't all that competitive anyway......so asking them to build a 7-series level car is impossible....
Hence some refer it to the mini NSX....
10-27-2015, 04:51 AM
#2428
Safety Car
AutoNews
Honda Motor Co. is about to unleash a new round of powertrain technologies that aim to boost fuel economy and performance while burnishing the company’s reputation for innovation.
The systems range from a new-generation plug-in hybrid powertrain and 10-speed automatic transmission to a lean-combustion cycle that targets ultrahigh thermal efficiency.
They also include the company’s next hydrogen fuel cell sedan. And engineers even dangled the possibility of an all-wheel-drive, all-electric sports car, based on a Pikes Peak-climbing prototype. The rollout will unfold over the next 5 years.
Honda unveiled the technologies at its global r&d center in eastern Japan on Monday ahead of the Tokyo Motor Show.
“We’ve added a new lineup to expand our formation,” said Keiji Ohtsu, Honda’s chief officer for technology strategy.
The multipronged attack builds on the Earth Dreams family of powertrains Honda began deploying to the market in late 2012.
That makeover started with new naturally aspirated, direct-injection engines and continuously variable transmissions. Honda now is amplifying that lineup with turbocharged engines and more performance-oriented dual-clutch transmissions.
Next come more exotic technologies that enter new territory.
Plug-in promise
It starts with the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle debuting at this week’s Tokyo Motor Show and going on sale early next year.
The zero-emission, 5-seat sedan succeeds the Clarity from 2008 and foreshadows the long-term direction of Honda’s powertrain strategy, executives said.
Honda said it reduced the size of the new fuel cell stack by a third, from its previous-generation technology, so that it is about as big as a 3.5-liter V-6 gasoline engine. The stack now fits under the car’s hood rather than in the center console area of the earlier Clarity.
That will enable Honda to deploy the powerplant in various vehicle types, which will help popularize the technology. Placement of the entire stack under the hood also allowed Honda to free up cabin space and squeeze in the fifth seat.
Looking further ahead, Honda is also cooperating with General Motors to develop a next-generation fuel cell system for deployment in additional vehicles around 2020.
Honda aims to wring the most from its costly investment in the FCV by using the same platform to underpin a new plug-in hybrid vehicle, Ohtsu said. That car is expected around 2018.
The plug-in will deliver at least three times the 13-miles, electric-only range of Honda’s latest plug-in, a gasoline-electric Accord. It also will allow for extended EV-mode driving on highways.
The car mates a 130-kilowatt motor and lithium ion battery to a 4-cylinder engine with a displacement of less than 1.8 liters, engineers said. The Accord Plug-In had a 2.0-liter and was dropped by Honda in the U.S. for the 2015 model year.
The next plug-in will eke extra EV range through a new lithium ion battery that boosts energy density by half, said Hideharu Takemoto, a chief engineer of electrified drivetrains.
Part of the improvement came through new cathode chemistry.
10-speed
Also on tap: a new 10-speed planetary automatic transmission for front-wheel-drive vehicles, a gearbox Honda calls a world’s first. That transmission will be introduced in the “near future,” Ohtsu said. He declined to give a specific timeline.
It is expected to be used in large vehicles such as the Acura RLX and Honda Odyssey, but plans have not been finalized.
Honda will build the 10-speed in-house, and it will replace Honda’s 6-speed automatic for 3.5-liter, V-6 engines.
The 10-speed is as compact as the six-speed, making it easily deployable across a wide range of vehicles, Ohtsu added.
It will boost fuel economy by at least 6 percent over the 6-speed and deliver a 14 percent improvement in acceleration, Honda said. Shifting will be 30 percent faster.
Engine evolution
Honda is reaching diminishing returns on improving fuel economy by adding more gears or bolting on turbochargers.
And that is why it also is targeting improved combustion.
Honda’s goal is a next-generation internal combustion engine that achieves thermal efficiency rates of 50 percent.
Higher efficiency means more energy from internal combustion is captured to power the wheels and less is lost through heat.
Honda’s best engines today fall just shy of 40 percent.
The gambit: A new technology Honda calls Homogeneous Lean Charge Spark Ignition, or HLSI. It improves thermal efficiency while lowering the combustion temperature to produce lower emissions of nitrogen oxides. Honda aims to deploy it by around 2020.
Engineers boost cylinder inflows for more fuel-air turbulence and then set off the mix with a higher-energy spark.
‘Tesla killer’
Finally, Honda is dabbling with an awd EV layout that delivers high-torque acceleration and torque-vectoring on all four wheels for extra-precise handling.
A group of young engineers spearheaded the project as an exercise to build a car to compete in the race up Pikes Peak in Colorado. They modified a CR-Z compact sporty hybrid hatchback for the job and equipped it with motors similar to the two front motors to be deployed in the upcoming NSX sports car.
After competing up the mountain, Honda is now considering possible production-vehicle applications, said Yutaka Horiuchi, the project’s chief engineer. Vehicles using the layout likely would need to be large and high end to justify the system’s cost, he said. He suggested Tesla as a possible future rival.
Joked Horiuchi: “This is our Tesla killer.”
10-27-2015, 01:15 PM
#2429
2G TLX-S
Well, the Prius killer - Honda Insight, didn't work out too well.
Hopefully this Tesla killer will.
Hopefully this Tesla killer will.
10-27-2015, 01:42 PM
#2430
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Lol here's that Tesla killer in a CR-Z Mule:
We drive Honda's small electric sportscar prototype | Top Gear
250hp, 1600kg, 0-60mph in 3.5s with a wound down powertrain.
10AT...guess that's the end of the ZF9AT experiment?
50% thermal efficiency...holy...if Honda pulls that off, that would be some amazing engineering feat.
We drive Honda's small electric sportscar prototype | Top Gear
250hp, 1600kg, 0-60mph in 3.5s with a wound down powertrain.
10AT...guess that's the end of the ZF9AT experiment?
50% thermal efficiency...holy...if Honda pulls that off, that would be some amazing engineering feat.
10-27-2015, 01:43 PM
#2431
10 speed trans? I don't know about that. Bragging rights or does this mean the CVT is the suck then, if they need to build a completely new trans to improve gas mileage vs using CVT.
TLX owners were just guinea pigs with the ZF trans
TLX owners were just guinea pigs with the ZF trans
10-27-2015, 02:06 PM
#2432
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I don't mind 10AT, as long as it shifts smoothly and smartly.
10-27-2015, 06:40 PM
#2435
Team Owner
I would like Honda to be innovative but just dont try it on transmission. Honda's Auto tranny is cursed.
10-28-2015, 04:16 AM
#2436
Race Director
10-28-2015, 09:52 AM
#2437
Senior Moderator
Honda Motor Co. is about to unleash a new round of powertrain technologies that aim to boost fuel economy and performance while burnishing the company’s reputation for innovation.
The systems range from a new-generation plug-in hybrid powertrain and 10-speed automatic transmission to a lean-combustion cycle that targets ultrahigh thermal efficiency.
They also include the company’s next hydrogen fuel cell sedan. And engineers even dangled the possibility of an all-wheel-drive, all-electric sports car, based on a Pikes Peak-climbing prototype. The rollout will unfold over the next 5 years.
Honda unveiled the technologies at its global r&d center in eastern Japan on Monday ahead of the Tokyo Motor Show.
“We’ve added a new lineup to expand our formation,” said Keiji Ohtsu, Honda’s chief officer for technology strategy.
The multipronged attack builds on the Earth Dreams family of powertrains Honda began deploying to the market in late 2012.
That makeover started with new naturally aspirated, direct-injection engines and continuously variable transmissions. Honda now is amplifying that lineup with turbocharged engines and more performance-oriented dual-clutch transmissions.
Next come more exotic technologies that enter new territory.
Plug-in promise
It starts with the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle debuting at this week’s Tokyo Motor Show and going on sale early next year.
The zero-emission, 5-seat sedan succeeds the Clarity from 2008 and foreshadows the long-term direction of Honda’s powertrain strategy, executives said.
Honda said it reduced the size of the new fuel cell stack by a third, from its previous-generation technology, so that it is about as big as a 3.5-liter V-6 gasoline engine. The stack now fits under the car’s hood rather than in the center console area of the earlier Clarity.
That will enable Honda to deploy the powerplant in various vehicle types, which will help popularize the technology. Placement of the entire stack under the hood also allowed Honda to free up cabin space and squeeze in the fifth seat.
Looking further ahead, Honda is also cooperating with General Motors to develop a next-generation fuel cell system for deployment in additional vehicles around 2020.
Honda aims to wring the most from its costly investment in the FCV by using the same platform to underpin a new plug-in hybrid vehicle, Ohtsu said. That car is expected around 2018.
The plug-in will deliver at least three times the 13-miles, electric-only range of Honda’s latest plug-in, a gasoline-electric Accord. It also will allow for extended EV-mode driving on highways.
The car mates a 130-kilowatt motor and lithium ion battery to a 4-cylinder engine with a displacement of less than 1.8 liters, engineers said. The Accord Plug-In had a 2.0-liter and was dropped by Honda in the U.S. for the 2015 model year.
The next plug-in will eke extra EV range through a new lithium ion battery that boosts energy density by half, said Hideharu Takemoto, a chief engineer of electrified drivetrains.
Part of the improvement came through new cathode chemistry.
10-speed
Also on tap: a new 10-speed planetary automatic transmission for front-wheel-drive vehicles, a gearbox Honda calls a world’s first. That transmission will be introduced in the “near future,” Ohtsu said. He declined to give a specific timeline.
It is expected to be used in large vehicles such as the Acura RLX and Honda Odyssey, but plans have not been finalized.
Honda will build the 10-speed in-house, and it will replace Honda’s 6-speed automatic for 3.5-liter, V-6 engines.
The 10-speed is as compact as the six-speed, making it easily deployable across a wide range of vehicles, Ohtsu added.
It will boost fuel economy by at least 6 percent over the 6-speed and deliver a 14 percent improvement in acceleration, Honda said. Shifting will be 30 percent faster.
Engine evolution
Honda is reaching diminishing returns on improving fuel economy by adding more gears or bolting on turbochargers.
And that is why it also is targeting improved combustion.
Honda’s goal is a next-generation internal combustion engine that achieves thermal efficiency rates of 50 percent.
Higher efficiency means more energy from internal combustion is captured to power the wheels and less is lost through heat.
Honda’s best engines today fall just shy of 40 percent.
The gambit: A new technology Honda calls Homogeneous Lean Charge Spark Ignition, or HLSI. It improves thermal efficiency while lowering the combustion temperature to produce lower emissions of nitrogen oxides. Honda aims to deploy it by around 2020.
Engineers boost cylinder inflows for more fuel-air turbulence and then set off the mix with a higher-energy spark.
‘Tesla killer’
Finally, Honda is dabbling with an awd EV layout that delivers high-torque acceleration and torque-vectoring on all four wheels for extra-precise handling.
A group of young engineers spearheaded the project as an exercise to build a car to compete in the race up Pikes Peak in Colorado. They modified a CR-Z compact sporty hybrid hatchback for the job and equipped it with motors similar to the two front motors to be deployed in the upcoming NSX sports car.
After competing up the mountain, Honda is now considering possible production-vehicle applications, said Yutaka Horiuchi, the project’s chief engineer. Vehicles using the layout likely would need to be large and high end to justify the system’s cost, he said. He suggested Tesla as a possible future rival.
Joked Horiuchi: “This is our Tesla killer.”
Oh boy...... 10spd to be built in house. I really really hope they have done some better homework on this one.
Last edited by fsttyms1; 10-28-2015 at 09:58 AM.
10-28-2015, 01:29 PM
#2438
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I hope they arent referring to the 10 speed it self being a worlds first. Ford and GM collaborated on a 10 speed that will be available in the new f150 soon and ford already has a patent on an 11 speed.
Oh boy...... 10spd to be built in house. I really really hope they have done some better homework on this one.
Oh boy...... 10spd to be built in house. I really really hope they have done some better homework on this one.
May be FWD is the keyword?
10-28-2015, 04:39 PM
#2439
Ex-OEM King
I hope they arent referring to the 10 speed it self being a worlds first. Ford and GM collaborated on a 10 speed that will be available in the new f150 soon and ford already has a patent on an 11 speed.
Oh boy...... 10spd to be built in house. I really really hope they have done some better homework on this one.
Oh boy...... 10spd to be built in house. I really really hope they have done some better homework on this one.
What the heck is the point of a 10 speed transmission anyway? The 9 speed in my Jeep doesn't even use all 9 gears to begin with and anything over 5th is an overdrive gear. Lots of gears make sense in a diesel motor but not for a gas.
10-28-2015, 08:25 PM
#2440
2G TLX-S