Fibonacci

If I recall correctly, Ken said the DCT was supply constrained.

Acura really should launched the DCT standard across the TLX line-up from the get go for their red carpet athlete.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The RLX DCT is essentially a FWD only transmission; there is no transfer box on it to push power to the rear wheels, so unless the TLX also recieved the electric motors for the rear wheels, awd is not happening with that transmission.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The 2G CL-S 6MT traps at 98-99mph stock. Coming from the 2G TL/CL camp, I have yet to see any stock 2G TL/CL or 3G TL with MT trapping at over 100mph.

Yea the TLX will not smoke any 335i or S4. End of story.

It will keep up with other competitors like the ATS 3.6 and IS350 while being quite a bit cheaper.

Simply put, Acura will need to make a Type S or something to compete with the 335i, S4, or C400 in any acceleration test.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

It will need to be F/I-ed and have a completely new tramsmission probably.

Is Acura that bold?

Boulder TSX

I agree with your overall sentiment, (that Acura has not advanced much, if at all, in 10 years.) But your list of their last great cars seems incomplete.

- The RSX-S was a great car and fun to drive.

- The first gen TSX was arguably even greater than the aforementioned cars... It won Car & Driver's "10 Best Cars" award three years in a row. (No Acura has done that since). It also beat, (dominated) the Audi A4 in a C&D head-to-head comparison. 2004 Acura TSX vs. Audi A4 vs. Subaru Legacy vs. Volvo S40 ? Comparison Test ? Car and Driver

Unfortunately, those cars ceased to exist or to be as great six years ago, but they are glaring omissions from your list.

MeehowsBRZ

Those two cars were great... but they were just Honda's with 'A' badges stuck on them. Can they really count?

Black Tire

I saw an Integra and Legend this past week. I said to myself, “WOW’…Acura needs to go back to what they were doing well when these cars were made.
How hard can it be to make a light weight car with a powerful engine???

They have the ability to do this, but not the passion to go ahead with it.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

safety regs are vastly different today, one of the primary reasons cars are bigger and heavier today.

Boulder TSX

Really? How are they any different than the cars he listed, which are based on the Accord?

The RSX was not rebadged and sold as a Honda. (Like the cars he listed, it is "based upon" the Civic...but it did not share any body panels, interior parts, seats, etc., with any Civic.)

The first gen TSX did not take a Euro Accord and simply rebadge it. It had a completely different interior, different dash and gauges, many more features, (bluetooth, voice operated NAV and climate system). BTW, that Accord was not sold in the U.S. (The Accord from which the TL and CL were based were sold in the U.S.)

The new Audi A3 is built from the VW Golf platform. Does that make it any less of a great car?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

You're right, the RSX was not rebadged and sold as a Honda. The DC5 Integra was rebadged and sold as an RSX. The same with the Euro Accord/TSX - they are mechanically identical.

Saying they are totally different cars is like saying the Acura SLX and the Isuzu Trooper were polar opposites.

Boulder TSX

I never said they were totally different cars. (And incidentally, they were not mechanically identical in all cases. The TSX was sold with a 2.4 liter engine exclusively. The Euro Accord was also offered with a 2.0 liter R20 and 2.2 liter diesel.)

The point is being sidetracked. Acura made more great cars in the last decade than those the OP listed...(and yes, all of them were based upon Honda cars.)

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The 2l in the Euro Accord was a K20; which is in the same family as the K24 that powered the TSX and the Accord sold in Australia/New Zealand. The R series never made it into the Euro Accord/TSX.

But your point is noted, they have made great cars in the past ten years.

oonowindoo

I think the most "Advanced" car that Acura has built was the 2001 CL Type S. If you can ignore the glass tranny, It provided the most "jump" in tech/look/performance from the 1g CL.


after that, it has been just a little something here and there. Nothing dramatic.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I think there's a nostalgia phenomenon going on here. seems like the cl type s, relative to bmw & etc, wasn't in a totally different place than acura is now.

Acura 3.2CL Type S - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

For one, that's the automatic CL-S. The 6MT was faster and more in line with the competition at the time.

2003 Acura 3.2CL Type-S First Drive ? Review ? Car and Driver

Secondly - the cars that the CL-S were competing with are no longer in the same place Acura is stuck in. Those cars advanced, Acura did not.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

still seems like acura is in a similar position, relative to bmw, back in 2003 as today.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

You're right, the top of the line TLX SHAWD hits 60 in the same time as the ATS Turbo and over half a second slower than the 328 - with the BMW starting at $4k less than the TLX. This isn't 2003 anymore. Acura is no longer punching about their MSRP. The competition managed to lower their prices and still put out a damn good car in the segment, while Acura tries to gimmick they're way into a top three.

But lets gloss over that - Acura is infallible, for they are the chosen ones. We must bow to their beak.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That's one way of making a hi-po version of the TLX. I think the ZF 9AT has a capacity of 354lbft of torque. So a boosted J series or something with 350hp and 350lbft of torque can still use that same 9AT unit.

Another way is to fit a variation of that RLX's Sport Hybrid system into the TLX and charge a $5k premium. No need to design a new turbocharged engine or new DCT that can take this power.

Acura already has that technology available. Making that available in the TLX helps with economies of scale and can potentially bring the costs down further. Acura should have already ironed out the bugs with the system after the delay with the RLX Sport hybrid. By the time this TLX Sport hybrid is ready for the market, Honda should also have more real world data available for the system. The car would lose a few cu.ft of storage space.

Potential Specs:
Power: 377hp
Torque: 340lbft
EPA: 30/34/32mpg
Weight: 3900lb (~300-350lb more than TLX V6 FWD)
Tranny: 7-DCT
Price: $47k for TLX Sport Hybrid Tech; $50k for TLX Sport Hybrid Advance

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

328i can do 0-60mph in 5s flat?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

5.8s. Per Edmunds, the TLX SH-AWD hit 60 in 6.4s.

2015 Acura TLX Road Test | Edmunds.com

Edit - My memory was a bit foggy; the 328i that they tested cost the same as the TLX that was tested ($45k and change) and hit 60 at 5.4s.

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

lol, I'm not the one putting the cl on a pedestal here.

we were talking about a type-s cl model though, there is no tlx type-s at this point. nor was a manual offered in the cl until the type-s. I would expect a type-s tlx to be closer to a 335.

oonowindoo

well 330 was the top trim in 3 series other than M3, of course and it is very very competitive in terms of available features and performance on paper and in the real world.

So if you want to compare TLX V6 (FWD or SHAWD, does not matter), to the top trim 335i...

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

You can't compare those two because the 9AT TLX isn't the top of the line model, apparently.

ALL HAIL THE CL-S6!

MeehowsBRZ

lol...... you're pretty dumb.

When did I ever say the cars were bad? And since when does a different gauge cluster and bluetooth change what a car is? Finally, dafaq does any of that have to do with an A3?

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

we just compared cl-s, which debuted as an '03 model, with 330i w/performance package. if we go back to '01, there was no type-s cl to compare to 330i. in 2003 the cl-s was not on par with 330i. new tlx shawd is not an s-model, so it is akin to base cl not cl-s, so I wouldn't expect the tlx shawd to compete with 335.

oonowindoo

You need some history lesson on Acura. You can't be a Acura fanboy if the haters know more about Acura than you.

Also whose fault is it that there is no Type S in the current lineup? You compare with what you have. IF there was no type S back then Naturally the base CL/TL will be compared with the 330.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

No, the CL Type S debuted in 2001; the 6MT debuted in 2003.

Size and cost wise, the TLX SH-AWD does compete with the 335i:

TLX SH-AWD = $42,345 (MSRP + destination) 31mpg HWY; 290hp; 6.4s 0-60
335i = $44,700 (MSRP + destination) 32mpg HWY; 300hp; 5.1s 0-60

Let's say you're right though, and the SH-AWD doesn't compare to the 335. That would mean it now compares with the 328 - obviously it wouldn't compete with the 320, that's what the 2.4 TLX is comparable to.

TLX SH-AWD = $42,345 (MSRP + destination) 31mpg HWY; 290hp; 6.4s 0-60
328i = $38,450 (MSRP + destination) 35mpg; 240hp; 5.4s 0-60

The 328i still outperforms the TLX, offers better fuel economy, and comes in at about $4k less.

"You can't compare those, they're RWD cars, not AWD" I hear you moan. True, so lets take a look at the 328i xDrive.

TLX SH-AWD = $42,345 (MSRP + destination) 31mpg HWY; 290hp; 6.4s 0-60
328i xDrive = $40,450 (MSRP + destination) 33mpg; 240hp; 5.7s 0-60

Still less expensive! Still more fuel efficient!

But by all means, keep moving the goal posts

oonowindoo

that is not fair because TLX has more standard features than a base 328!!!


but who cares... you are never going to have apple to apple comparisons because no 2 cars are exactly the same.

While TLX offers more features, even a base model 328 is RWD or RWD based AWD, which cost more to produce + 4 years free maintenance + "I drive a BMW"

MTEAZY

I already posted a link on p 258 comparing the CLS and 330ci 6MT on the same day with same conditions. CL-S is going to be harder to launch but overall the TLX really hasn't moved the game on much as far as straight line speed goes. If you compare it to the 3G Type S it's even worse.

oonowindoo

my 01 CLS with OBX header and AEM CAI was faster than my friend's 1998 E36 M3....... 4 door automatic...

i didnt even know what torque steering was back then,, but i knew i was faster!!

Costco

The TLX is so good that I'll never put my money where my mouth is and actually buy one

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

you're right.

that would be a base rwd 328, with no options (you get halogen headlights at this price). similarly equipped, that 328 will easily be $50k+.

as I said, '03 cl-s w/6mt couldn't hang with '03 330i sport, so I'm not sure why you'd expect a non-s model tlx to hang w/a 335 and when it doesn't, say acura is moving backwards. even the azine favorite cl-s 6mt couldn't hang with the top trim, non-m, 3 series of it's day.

a non-s cl is going to be comparable to a 328/5 not a 330.

refer to my original post on this that didn't contain pricing info. I was comparing performance, so it's you who's shifted the goal posts to include price.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

how is that an apples to apples comparison? in '01 there was a new m3 out. also worth mentioning is that the us version of the e36 m3 was considerably less powerful than the euro counterpart.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Same ol' skd2k1. Same ol' TLX talk.

Acura.

Advance.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

good work advancing the conversation.

oonowindoo

That was not a comparison....

Since CL-S and M3 regardless gens was never in the same league.

oonowindoo

I already answered your questions before you asked. scroll up.

if you can make a TLX to a RWD or RWD based AWD, then add some 4 years free maintenance + "I DRIVE an ACURA (whenever that happens)" then it will probably be $60k...

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Show me where I said Acura is moving backwards. I said they have not advanced, ie - they're resting on their laurels.

Acura was about performance and luxury at great prices. They can no longer lean on that as there are many sub-$30k cars that have more features then them. The last car they produced that was near living up to that was the 3G TL-S.

As far as the 328 price, a 328 with leather, cold weather pack, lighting pack, and technology pack comes to a whopping $45,850.

You want to talk performance without discussing price? Fine by me. Accord V6, Maxima, Camry V6, Genesis. Want more? G37/Q50, ATS, IS350, Benz C class - hell, a CLA45 AMG. Even the upcoming Jaguar XE.

Those are all cars that offer similar, or in most cases, better performance and technology within the same size (with the exception of the CLA45, its obviously smaller).

Would you like to debate ground clearance or side view mirror design next, SSFTSX?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

My post is better than your post in this thread.

Boulder TSX

Wow. "Pretty dumb"? I won't even try to figure out where that came from. (Maybe you hang around a playground and that's how your peers treat each other.)

As for great cars, I was responding to the poster in my first quote, not you.

I'm also still not sure how your discussion of the cars all being essentially Hondas -- including the OP's listed cars -- has to do with anything. (We all agree that they are.) I was simply adding two cars to that list.