Acura: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
07-30-2015, 06:52 AM
#3121
Three Wheelin'
The ultimate problem I have and the ultimate reality Ive come to realize is:
To have a leading luxury brand, your lower-end brand should NEVER be allowed to have product release schedules that undermine your higher end products. Period. That's just business economics 101.
But at the end of the day: Honda is the cash cow and always will be. So for that reason alone, things will NEVER change. Acura will ALWAYS be treated by the company as a "step-child"....always playing catch-up. Hell...their CEO barely even recognized Acura as part of his recent strategy announcement. In my book, that says alot...and enough for me to see where their focus is and will continue to be.
Im done giving my money to a company who cant get their act together. I'm ready to stand behind a company that can and knows how to lead in the luxury market.
To have a leading luxury brand, your lower-end brand should NEVER be allowed to have product release schedules that undermine your higher end products. Period. That's just business economics 101.
But at the end of the day: Honda is the cash cow and always will be. So for that reason alone, things will NEVER change. Acura will ALWAYS be treated by the company as a "step-child"....always playing catch-up. Hell...their CEO barely even recognized Acura as part of his recent strategy announcement. In my book, that says alot...and enough for me to see where their focus is and will continue to be.
Im done giving my money to a company who cant get their act together. I'm ready to stand behind a company that can and knows how to lead in the luxury market.
07-30-2015, 07:03 AM
#3122
Three Wheelin'
why is $65k a problem for RLX hybrid?. Show me a car in that price range that is quieter, faster, handle better on all season 500 tread rating tires with outstanding fuel economic and top notch music system. only the uneducated who does not know anything about automobiles will say its uncompetitive.
2. Because they cant build enough of them to warrant all the hassles of trying to get said $65k product, in some cases forcing potential customers to have to settle for a trim or color that they dont really want. (Really? Settle for less when paying that amount of money? Think about it...)
3. Because the overall car design doesnt inspire enough "emotion" to feel like its worth $65k unless you're a car nerd like those of us around here who understand all the underlying technical engineering prowess that goes into the Hybrid drive-train. But that in itself is a flawed sales model approach to a $65k vehicle. You have to make the cars attractive to get people interested to THEN learn more about the technology. The majority of people act on feelings/emotions first.
4. Because lots of people who want a car in that price range lease. And residual value on the RLX is horrendous due to the poor market acceptance of the RLX. So its a risky move to lease a Hybrid (or even the PAWS) with you loosing more money than you should in the end. You see plenty of examples of Hybrids and PAWS going for 30-40% below MSRP...sometimes brand new just to get them to move. Just more proof of the above.
So yes: $65k MSRP is a problem for the RLX hybrid in its current state. And $61k is a problem for the RLX PAWS in its current state.
If they want to be successfull with the RLX then IMO they need to:
1. learn how to market to that customer segment.
2. add more value to the vehicle by a combination of redesign the exterior, continuing to improve the build quality issues that plagued the 2014 models, and improve on the features and interior technology (some of which has been done in the 2016 model). OR lower the MSRP to make it in line with the current state of the vehicle.
Last edited by holografique; 07-30-2015 at 07:11 AM.
07-30-2015, 09:04 AM
#3123
The ultimate problem I have and the ultimate reality Ive come to realize is:
To have a leading luxury brand, your lower-end brand should NEVER be allowed to have product release schedules that undermine your higher end products. Period. That's just business economics 101.
But at the end of the day: Honda is the cash cow and always will be. So for that reason alone, things will NEVER change. Acura will ALWAYS be treated by the company as a "step-child"....always playing catch-up. Hell...their CEO barely even recognized Acura as part of his recent strategy announcement. In my book, that says alot...and enough for me to see where their focus is and will continue to be.
Im done giving my money to a company who cant get their act together. I'm ready to stand behind a company that can and knows how to lead in the luxury market.
To have a leading luxury brand, your lower-end brand should NEVER be allowed to have product release schedules that undermine your higher end products. Period. That's just business economics 101.
But at the end of the day: Honda is the cash cow and always will be. So for that reason alone, things will NEVER change. Acura will ALWAYS be treated by the company as a "step-child"....always playing catch-up. Hell...their CEO barely even recognized Acura as part of his recent strategy announcement. In my book, that says alot...and enough for me to see where their focus is and will continue to be.
Im done giving my money to a company who cant get their act together. I'm ready to stand behind a company that can and knows how to lead in the luxury market.
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
07-30-2015, 11:10 AM
#3124
Team Owner
why is $65k a problem for RLX hybrid?. Show me a car in that price range that is quieter, faster, handle better on all season 500 tread rating tires with outstanding fuel economic and top notch music system. only the uneducated who does not know anything about automobiles will say its uncompetitive.
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07-30-2015, 11:17 AM
#3125
Team Owner
It seems like you've made up your mind to leave Acura, which is too bad. Where will you go?
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
if you have not noticed, the market trend is there are less and less people who are keeping the cars for more than 5 years, let alone 10 years.
The mentality of the newer generations are not the same as the baby boomers.
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benjaminh (07-30-2015)
07-30-2015, 11:39 AM
#3126
Moderator
It seems like you've made up your mind to leave Acura, which is too bad. Where will you go?
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
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benjaminh (07-30-2015)
07-30-2015, 12:36 PM
#3127
Safety Car
WardsAuto
Acura often touts its R&D prowess resulting in vehicles with advanced technology, such as the upcoming ’16 NSX super car.
But Honda’s luxury brand is stepping up efforts to enhance things on the other end of the automotive spectrum: the customer dealership experience.
“You can spend billions of dollars on R&D, manufacturing and (marketing), but not concentrate as much on the client experience,” says Chuck Kendig, Acura’s assistant vice president-parts and service.
Shopping patterns have changed, largely because of the Internet, making customer engagement that much more important, he says at the annual Automotive Customer Centricity Summit here. “We’re trying to figure out how to deal with the new reality and still make money.”
Despite the growth of Internet car shopping, the brick-and-mortar dealership itself is where everything comes together. That involves the “importance of place to affirm a brand choice,” Kendig says. “It is nearly universal for premium brands.”
Acura has begun a pilot program that provides dealership training and support to enhance “client care,” he says. “It is not a complicated model” and came about after the automaker sent process specialists to dealerships to evaluate how things were done.
The project focuses on engaging with shoppers, working with known expectations and respecting customer time. If a consumer has done online homework and is at stage 7 upon reaching the dealership, “put me at stage 8, not back to 3,” Kendig says.
The improvement plan extends to the service department. “People value time and convenience, so, make it easy for me to give you my money,” he says. “Don’t make me wait for basic service, and don’t overcharge for it.”
The automaker urges service departments to make greater use of customer-relationship-management software systems that contain databases of contact information and purchase histories. “Before, CRM was basically used for selling vehicles,” says Kendig.
Acura says its dealerships can make more money by offering express service for light repairs and maintenance work, such as oil changes.
Many mainstream brands such as Ford and Chevrolet added that service at dealerships years ago. Acura is playing catch-up.
“Without accelerated services, you lose money and customers,” Kendig says. “People are not paying crazy money for basic maintenance, and they’re not making appointments for oil changes.”
About that highly anticipated NSX. It is expected to cost about $150,000 and will serve as a halo vehicle that emotionally connects people to the brand.
Dealerships can leverage that connection, even if it is with people who can’t afford to buy an NSX.
“You can convert them to a car they can afford,” Kendig says of targeted digital marketing efforts using the likes of pop-up ads.
For example, if an online consumer configures a red NSX with a black interior, “we can pop up a TLX that’s red with a black interior.” The TLX costs about $115,000 less than the NSX will.
sfinlay@wardsauto.com
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07-30-2015, 01:09 PM
#3128
You'll Never Walk Alone
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2016 Honda Pilot AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
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AZuser (07-30-2015)
07-30-2015, 04:28 PM
#3129
Three Wheelin'
For most models, Acura does have among the best reliability and resale of any luxury make.
If you keep your cars long-term, owning a BWM, Audi, or MB is often a trouble-prone and costly proposition.
Yes, Honda is the cash cow, but in this brutally competitive market that's why it needs to be leading edge.
From a pure philosophical standpoint, it's pretty straightforward - if you have two products, and one costs more than the other, then there should be enough differentiation and justification between the two for the gap in price. This is where Honda/Acura breaks down for me. They don't seem to stand behind this philosophy. And looking at their track record, I simply don't see this EVER changing unless Acura literally get's split off as an entirely separate operating company with full autonomy to choose it's direction on product strategy. Acura will always seem as an afterthought or half-baked from what it really could be when you compare it to the competitors in the luxury space.
When a companies CEO comes off as if the brand isn't even important to the future of his company, to me that shows that they don't really stand behind the products. And for me that leads to poor consumer confidence. Whereby I don't feel good about putting my money into any products where the people running the "show" don't really seem to stand behind it 100%.
There are still many technologies and styling elements that are exclusive to Acura, but I wish you well on your journey elsewhere.
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benjaminh (07-30-2015)
07-30-2015, 04:31 PM
#3130
Team Owner
Pilot 9AT 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds, that's not a full second slower than MDX my friend:
2016 Honda Pilot AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
2016 Honda Pilot AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
07-30-2015, 05:43 PM
#3131
why is $65k a problem for RLX hybrid?. Show me a car in that price range that is quieter, faster, handle better on all season 500 tread rating tires with outstanding fuel economic and top notch music system. only the uneducated who does not know anything about automobiles will say its uncompetitive.
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00TL-P3.2 (08-05-2015)
07-30-2015, 05:49 PM
#3132
07-30-2015, 05:56 PM
#3133
http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-...gh/2000007854/
Average length of U.S. vehicle ownership hit an all-time high
The latest data compiled by global market intelligence firm R.L. Polk & Co has found that Americans are now holding onto their new vehicles for a record 71.4 months. On the used vehicle side, that interval has risen to 49.9 months, a figure that also represents a new high mark. Collectively, the ownership period currently stands at 57 months, up from about 38 months back in 2002.
The latest data compiled by global market intelligence firm R.L. Polk & Co has found that Americans are now holding onto their new vehicles for a record 71.4 months. On the used vehicle side, that interval has risen to 49.9 months, a figure that also represents a new high mark. Collectively, the ownership period currently stands at 57 months, up from about 38 months back in 2002.
Drivers in long-term relationships with their cars
Experian Automotive analyzed the sale of more than 1.1 million vehicles in the first quarter of 2014 and found the average length of initial ownership was seven years and nine months. That's an increase of three months compared to the first quarter of 2012.
The study also found that the longer a driver holds onto their car, the lower the likelihood that their next vehicle will be from the same brand.
Experian Automotive analyzed the sale of more than 1.1 million vehicles in the first quarter of 2014 and found the average length of initial ownership was seven years and nine months. That's an increase of three months compared to the first quarter of 2012.
The study also found that the longer a driver holds onto their car, the lower the likelihood that their next vehicle will be from the same brand.
Longer vehicle ownership might mean less loyalty, study says
Experian, a Chicago-area data analysis company, said consumers who owned their vehicle for 12 months would purchase their next vehicle in the same brand 57 percent of the time. But for consumers who owned a vehicle for 12 years, the loyalty to the brand dropped to 34 percent.
The most significant drop in brand loyalty occurred after 36 months, dropping by nearly 10 percentage points, Experian said.
“Leases with their fixed-length ownership cycle are typically strong contributors to brand loyalty,” said Brad Smith, director of automotive market statistics for Experian Automotive, in a statement. But that applies only to leases with shorter terms.
Longer ownership
In the first quarter, the most recent period for which data was available, the average length of ownership was 93 months, or about 8 years, and the average brand-loyalty rate was nearly 50 percent.
Both increased from a year earlier, when the average length of ownership was 92 months and the average brand-loyalty rate was 48 percent. But the two factors generally don’t reinforce each other.
Why do consumers become less loyal over time? Because, Smith said, things change. A brand’s lineup changes, while a consumer’s budget or credit score can change.
“Additionally, the increase in time between dealer interactions, whether they are for sales or service, increases the probability of a customer defecting to the competition,” Smith said.
Prompt a trade-in
Subaru dealer Adam Arens said he aggressively offers to buy his customers’ Subaru vehicles just two or three years into their ownership and get them into a new Subaru for a lower monthly payment.
Arens wants to preserve the relationship he has with that customer. It also allows him to restock his used-vehicle inventory with late-model cars, which helps pump up used-car sales and brings service and maintenance work on those cars.
Pitch product
Experian looked at which brands had the longest length of ownership and how that figure related to brand loyalty. In loyalty terms, Ford and Subaru held the top two spots at 61 percent and 59 percent, respectively. Ford’s loyalty slipped from a year earlier when it was 62 percent. Subaru’s was 57 percent.
The average length of ownership for a Ford was 110 months, up from 107 months a year earlier. The average length of ownership for a Subaru was 85 months, down from 88 months a year ago.
In contrast, Dodge and Buick led the industry in length of ownership with an average of 113 months. But Dodge’s loyalty rate was 23 percent and Buick’s was 38 percent.
A year earlier, the average length of ownership was 107 months for Dodge and 119 months for Buick. Dodge’s loyalty rate in the first quarter of 2013 was 21 percent, Experian said. Buick’s was 37 percent.
Increase loyalty
Smith said lengthy ownership has a positive: a dealer can make money on service and parts. But it also “underscores the importance for service centers to focus on customer service and retention,” he said.
The study said Acura and Volvo led the luxury-vehicle segment with the longest length of ownership in the first quarter this year at 99 months and 92 months, respectively. Each was roughly flat from a year earlier.
Lexus and Mercedes-Benz led the luxury-vehicle segment with the highest brand-loyalty rates in the first quarter at 56 percent and 53 percent, respectively. A year earlier, Lexus has a 55 percent loyalty rating and Mercedes a 51 percent rating.
Experian, a Chicago-area data analysis company, said consumers who owned their vehicle for 12 months would purchase their next vehicle in the same brand 57 percent of the time. But for consumers who owned a vehicle for 12 years, the loyalty to the brand dropped to 34 percent.
The most significant drop in brand loyalty occurred after 36 months, dropping by nearly 10 percentage points, Experian said.
“Leases with their fixed-length ownership cycle are typically strong contributors to brand loyalty,” said Brad Smith, director of automotive market statistics for Experian Automotive, in a statement. But that applies only to leases with shorter terms.
Longer ownership
In the first quarter, the most recent period for which data was available, the average length of ownership was 93 months, or about 8 years, and the average brand-loyalty rate was nearly 50 percent.
Both increased from a year earlier, when the average length of ownership was 92 months and the average brand-loyalty rate was 48 percent. But the two factors generally don’t reinforce each other.
Why do consumers become less loyal over time? Because, Smith said, things change. A brand’s lineup changes, while a consumer’s budget or credit score can change.
“Additionally, the increase in time between dealer interactions, whether they are for sales or service, increases the probability of a customer defecting to the competition,” Smith said.
Prompt a trade-in
Subaru dealer Adam Arens said he aggressively offers to buy his customers’ Subaru vehicles just two or three years into their ownership and get them into a new Subaru for a lower monthly payment.
Arens wants to preserve the relationship he has with that customer. It also allows him to restock his used-vehicle inventory with late-model cars, which helps pump up used-car sales and brings service and maintenance work on those cars.
Pitch product
Experian looked at which brands had the longest length of ownership and how that figure related to brand loyalty. In loyalty terms, Ford and Subaru held the top two spots at 61 percent and 59 percent, respectively. Ford’s loyalty slipped from a year earlier when it was 62 percent. Subaru’s was 57 percent.
The average length of ownership for a Ford was 110 months, up from 107 months a year earlier. The average length of ownership for a Subaru was 85 months, down from 88 months a year ago.
In contrast, Dodge and Buick led the industry in length of ownership with an average of 113 months. But Dodge’s loyalty rate was 23 percent and Buick’s was 38 percent.
A year earlier, the average length of ownership was 107 months for Dodge and 119 months for Buick. Dodge’s loyalty rate in the first quarter of 2013 was 21 percent, Experian said. Buick’s was 37 percent.
Increase loyalty
Smith said lengthy ownership has a positive: a dealer can make money on service and parts. But it also “underscores the importance for service centers to focus on customer service and retention,” he said.
The study said Acura and Volvo led the luxury-vehicle segment with the longest length of ownership in the first quarter this year at 99 months and 92 months, respectively. Each was roughly flat from a year earlier.
Lexus and Mercedes-Benz led the luxury-vehicle segment with the highest brand-loyalty rates in the first quarter at 56 percent and 53 percent, respectively. A year earlier, Lexus has a 55 percent loyalty rating and Mercedes a 51 percent rating.
Last edited by AZuser; 07-30-2015 at 06:02 PM.
07-30-2015, 06:15 PM
#3134
Team Owner
That article was dated 2012... when we were in the recession. It is not because they want to hold on to the car it is because they had to. Also during those year, used car sales just exploded.
You do not need an article to tell you about the tread.
Take a look at the sales #s of Tier 1 brand in the past 10 years, then take a look at the lease rate.
I do not have the #s but i am pretty confident that the sales #s have been going up across all "luxury" brand (maybe except for Acura) and the lease rate is also going up.
It means more and more people like "better" things in life regardless their financial situation and more and more people do not hold on to their cars as long as .... before.
You do not need an article to tell you about the tread.
Take a look at the sales #s of Tier 1 brand in the past 10 years, then take a look at the lease rate.
I do not have the #s but i am pretty confident that the sales #s have been going up across all "luxury" brand (maybe except for Acura) and the lease rate is also going up.
It means more and more people like "better" things in life regardless their financial situation and more and more people do not hold on to their cars as long as .... before.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-30-2015 at 06:17 PM.
07-30-2015, 06:18 PM
#3135
1st linked article is from 2012. Other 2 linked articles are from late 2014 which shows that the trend hasn't changed.
With the real tier 1 players, they have no problem getting people into new vehicles sooner since these are the people with the money.
With the real tier 1 players, they have no problem getting people into new vehicles sooner since these are the people with the money.
Last edited by AZuser; 07-30-2015 at 06:21 PM.
07-30-2015, 06:25 PM
#3136
Team Owner
Ok i read the article and i see where the problem is.
I was saying there are less and less people hold on to their cars.
The article is saying the ones who bought them are holding onto their car longer, which has nothing to do with the total number of buyers who keep the car or not keeping the car.
I was saying there are less and less people hold on to their cars.
The article is saying the ones who bought them are holding onto their car longer, which has nothing to do with the total number of buyers who keep the car or not keeping the car.
07-30-2015, 06:27 PM
#3137
You're right there. Wish Acura today had exhaust tips like the 2004 TL.
I know you're maybe halfway joking, but....
Comparing the TLX to the Accord, there are some things that stand out for me.
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
I know you're maybe halfway joking, but....
Comparing the TLX to the Accord, there are some things that stand out for me.
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
07-30-2015, 06:34 PM
#3138
Team Owner
Also if you are comparing a mid $20k Accord vs a mid $35k TLX, then well it better have something that Accord doesn't, but even at that level Accord sport at $25k has things that the 4 banger TLX doesn't. Name 1 . 18" wheels vs ugly ass 17".
If you want to compare $35k Accord vs. $35k TLX, then yes TLX still has something that Accord doesn't but at the same time, the Accord has WAYYY more things that the $35k TLX doesnt
So how much is Acura badge actually worth to you? if you say a lot, ok you are not much different than the people who buy base model BMW.
If you say a little, then Accord is clearly a better choice when all things considered then why do you buy TLX?
If you want to compare $35k Accord vs. $35k TLX, then yes TLX still has something that Accord doesn't but at the same time, the Accord has WAYYY more things that the $35k TLX doesnt
So how much is Acura badge actually worth to you? if you say a lot, ok you are not much different than the people who buy base model BMW.
If you say a little, then Accord is clearly a better choice when all things considered then why do you buy TLX?
07-30-2015, 06:43 PM
#3140
Team Owner
bigger wheels have been proven to reduce performance. The ideal size is 14" wheels. It provide the ideal performance and comfort level while maintaining superior fuel efficiency.
The 75mm sidewall is also ideal to provide the necessary ground clearance to channel the air to the sophisticated aerodynamic mirrors.
Lastly the ideal AC vent locations blow the music wave from the purposely deigned speaker location directly to the driver's ear, causing the unexplained driving experience so called "Thrill"
Yes, have no doubt. It is that kind of thrill.
The 75mm sidewall is also ideal to provide the necessary ground clearance to channel the air to the sophisticated aerodynamic mirrors.
Lastly the ideal AC vent locations blow the music wave from the purposely deigned speaker location directly to the driver's ear, causing the unexplained driving experience so called "Thrill"
Yes, have no doubt. It is that kind of thrill.
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00TL-P3.2 (08-05-2015)
07-30-2015, 06:57 PM
#3141
Moderator
You're right there. Wish Acura today had exhaust tips like the 2004 TL.
I know you're maybe halfway joking, but....
Comparing the TLX to the Accord, there are some things that stand out for me.
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
I know you're maybe halfway joking, but....
Comparing the TLX to the Accord, there are some things that stand out for me.
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
07-30-2015, 07:56 PM
#3142
Comparing the TLX to the Accord, there are some things that stand out for me.
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
The TLX has the 8 speed DCT, compared to a CVT for the Accord.
The TLX also has PAWS, different seats, different interior and controls, available ELS stereo, etc.
Maybe we just see things differently. I was looking in a new BMW 320i a while ago, and I wasn't that impressed. It was about 8k more than a TLX, and to me less impressive. Perhaps on the road actually driving them, however....
As I said previously (and as oonowindoo noted above), the Accord Touring comes out as the better value, IMO. And it's $2K less.
Last edited by AZuser; 07-30-2015 at 07:58 PM.
07-30-2015, 09:10 PM
#3143
Also if you are comparing a mid $20k Accord vs a mid $35k TLX, then well it better have something that Accord doesn't, but even at that level Accord sport at $25k has things that the 4 banger TLX doesn't. Name 1 . 18" wheels vs ugly ass 17".
If you want to compare $35k Accord vs. $35k TLX, then yes TLX still has something that Accord doesn't but at the same time, the Accord has WAYYY more things that the $35k TLX doesnt
So how much is Acura badge actually worth to you? if you say a lot, ok you are not much different than the people who buy base model BMW.
If you say a little, then Accord is clearly a better choice when all things considered then why do you buy TLX?
If you want to compare $35k Accord vs. $35k TLX, then yes TLX still has something that Accord doesn't but at the same time, the Accord has WAYYY more things that the $35k TLX doesnt
So how much is Acura badge actually worth to you? if you say a lot, ok you are not much different than the people who buy base model BMW.
If you say a little, then Accord is clearly a better choice when all things considered then why do you buy TLX?
Since you and ttribe are BMW owners and enthusiasts, I'm just wondering why you hang out at an Acura site. It's fine. I actually appreciate your insights, even if I don't agree with them. But...I guess I'm a little puzzled. I don't like MBs these days, but I wouldn't bother going to a fan site for that brand and telling them what I think is wrong with their cars and with the brand.
I do like BMWs better, and have admired them since I was in preschool in 1969 and one of my teachers had a new 2002.
And I'm not trying to pick an argument.
I like Accords plenty, and can see the value in them. I own two myself, a 2008 EXL Navi 5 MT and a 2013 EXL Navi CVT (my wife's).
But the styling and the engineering of the TLX appeals to me. And I like little things that it has—like nice carpets, better seats, TPMS that tells you the pressure in each tire, hiding place for the cell phone. Heck, I even like the silly plood trim.
A bare bones 320i, which is all I could ever consider since I'd wouldn't want to spend more on a car than that, actually has a certain spartan appeal to me.
And, unlike you and and ttribe, I don't need a huge amount of power.
Anyway, we'll just agree to disagree.
Last edited by benjaminh; 07-30-2015 at 09:13 PM.
07-30-2015, 09:47 PM
#3144
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
Posts: 49,124
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We remain on this site because as so many of us have moved on to other brands we remain in camaraderie because we are car enthusiasts, not brand enthusiasts. Yes, many of us have our brand preferences right now, but we still love cars overall and we like the conversations we enter with each other.
The following 8 users liked this post by Sarlacc:
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07-30-2015, 10:06 PM
#3145
Pilot 9AT 0-60mph in 6.1 seconds, that's not a full second slower than MDX my friend:
2016 Honda Pilot AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
2016 Honda Pilot AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
07-31-2015, 08:19 AM
#3146
Senior Moderator
We remain on this site because as so many of us have moved on to other brands we remain in camaraderie because we are car enthusiasts, not brand enthusiasts. Yes, many of us have our brand preferences right now, but we still love cars overall and we like the conversations we enter with each other.
Most here have or (in my case do own, after a six year absence) owned Acuras and are hoping they release something that we, the enthusiasts, like. We all understand they are trying to get their bread and butter SUVs together and with the TLX, they are trying to get it together with their sedans. I have no problem with people seeing what is in other brands and wishing it upon Acura. Hopefully some of that can happen.
I suspect some of the reluctance to bow to enthusiasts at Honda stems from what's happened with some enthusiast cars.....the BRZ/FT86 twins being a key example, with their relatively poor sales.
Fact is, they are doing OK in sales right now, with the ILX and RLX being laggards (the RLX seriously so). If they fix/replace those cars with better, that'll go a long way toward repairing their reputation in the enthusiast community. Just MHO.
07-31-2015, 11:52 AM
#3147
Team Owner
Since you and ttribe are BMW owners and enthusiasts, I'm just wondering why you hang out at an Acura site. It's fine. I actually appreciate your insights, even if I don't agree with them. But...I guess I'm a little puzzled. I don't like MBs these days, but I wouldn't bother going to a fan site for that brand and telling them what I think is wrong with their cars and with the brand.
I do like BMWs better, and have admired them since I was in preschool in 1969 and one of my teachers had a new 2002.
And I'm not trying to pick an argument.
I like Accords plenty, and can see the value in them. I own two myself, a 2008 EXL Navi 5 MT and a 2013 EXL Navi CVT (my wife's).
But the styling and the engineering of the TLX appeals to me. And I like little things that it has—like nice carpets, better seats, TPMS that tells you the pressure in each tire, hiding place for the cell phone. Heck, I even like the silly plood trim.
A bare bones 320i, which is all I could ever consider since I'd wouldn't want to spend more on a car than that, actually has a certain spartan appeal to me.
And, unlike you and and ttribe, I don't need a huge amount of power.
Anyway, we'll just agree to disagree.
I do like BMWs better, and have admired them since I was in preschool in 1969 and one of my teachers had a new 2002.
And I'm not trying to pick an argument.
I like Accords plenty, and can see the value in them. I own two myself, a 2008 EXL Navi 5 MT and a 2013 EXL Navi CVT (my wife's).
But the styling and the engineering of the TLX appeals to me. And I like little things that it has—like nice carpets, better seats, TPMS that tells you the pressure in each tire, hiding place for the cell phone. Heck, I even like the silly plood trim.
A bare bones 320i, which is all I could ever consider since I'd wouldn't want to spend more on a car than that, actually has a certain spartan appeal to me.
And, unlike you and and ttribe, I don't need a huge amount of power.
Anyway, we'll just agree to disagree.
ALL of us have owned Acura and many of us continue to own Honda products. We know more about Acura/Honda than most of the other people on this forum since we have been following Acura for decades.
Look at our Joined date, we have been on this forum for a long time and we usually hang out in the Cartalk, not specific model section. But once in a while, we will go out and cause some trouble.
We talk about all models and makes and we talk shit or hate on all cars that deserve to be hated on regardless model. BMW is no exception with their brand whoring, FWD X1, soft steering and suspension and how Infiniti looks like sea cucumber.
You do not have to be a fanboy to like Acura, but liking Acura does not mean we have to love every product they have. Improvements come from constructive criticism not from Fanboys.
Most of us have no brand loyalty since no one is paying us to drive their cars. In the past 15 years, i have owned Acura (1), Honda(3), Inifniti (3), BMW(1), Scion(1), Merc(1)
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-31-2015 at 11:58 AM.
07-31-2015, 11:53 AM
#3148
I suspect some of the reluctance to bow to enthusiasts at Honda stems from what's happened with some enthusiast cars.....the BRZ/FT86 twins being a key example, with their relatively poor sales.
Fact is, they are doing OK in sales right now, with the ILX and RLX being laggards (the RLX seriously so). If they fix/replace those cars with better, that'll go a long way toward repairing their reputation in the enthusiast community. Just MHO.
Fact is, they are doing OK in sales right now, with the ILX and RLX being laggards (the RLX seriously so). If they fix/replace those cars with better, that'll go a long way toward repairing their reputation in the enthusiast community. Just MHO.
. . . . . . ILX vs FR-S vs BRZ
2013: 20,430 vs 18,327 vs 8,587
2014: 17,854 vs 14,062 vs 7,504
2015 (so far): 8,471 vs 5,748 vs 2,809
S2000
2002: 9,684
2003: 7,888
2004: 7,320
2005: 7,780
Sales went down hill after 2005.
07-31-2015, 11:59 AM
#3149
Team Owner
look at 0-110 mph timing. MDX is one second ahead. than 3mpg better. it pulls .2 g more. it is designed for performance. look at turning diameter difference, steering wheel turn lock to lock difference. MDX MMC will improve it. Imagine MDX gets RLX 310bhp engine. Acura may well get full power as its drinking premium fuel anyway.
07-31-2015, 12:00 PM
#3150
Team Owner
07-31-2015, 12:07 PM
#3151
Moderator
My 3GTL was my gateway drug back into actively following the auto industry again and to some mild modding activities (after about a 10 year hiatus from such things). Acura lost me as a customer at the introduction of the 4GTL, but I didn't want to abandon the online relationships I'd created here. Plus, the Automotive Discussion area is probably the best conversation place I've found in all the car boards I've joined when it comes to discussing all brands. Finally, I guess I still hold out some hope this brand will turn itself around. My wife and owned six Hondas and Acuras in the last twenty years. I still have some affection for the brand from all of that.
07-31-2015, 12:54 PM
#3152
You'll Never Walk Alone
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 9,492
Received 834 Likes
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look at 0-110 mph timing. MDX is one second ahead. than 3mpg better. it pulls .2 g more. it is designed for performance. look at turning diameter difference, steering wheel turn lock to lock difference. MDX MMC will improve it. Imagine MDX gets RLX 310bhp engine. Acura may well get full power as its drinking premium fuel anyway.
07-31-2015, 01:05 PM
#3153
Team Owner
look at 0-110 mph timing. MDX is one second ahead. than 3mpg better. it pulls .2 g more. it is designed for performance. look at turning diameter difference, steering wheel turn lock to lock difference. MDX MMC will improve it. Imagine MDX gets RLX 310bhp engine. Acura may well get full power as its drinking premium fuel anyway.
Fuck, just more bullshit comparisons. Are you going to start counting how many tire grooves are on each tire for both models and compare them also?
Pulls .2g more? Who the fuck cares?!?! It's a full size SU fucking V!!!
07-31-2015, 01:09 PM
#3154
07-31-2015, 01:14 PM
#3155
Senior Moderator
^^^^
I have to agree. Calm down, guys. You know said poster's posting style.
I have to agree. Calm down, guys. You know said poster's posting style.
07-31-2015, 01:23 PM
#3156
Team Owner
Isn't trolling a bannable offence? Especially when that's all that said certain poster ever does...
07-31-2015, 01:44 PM
#3157
Team Owner
they will learn eventually.
I still remember when he told me that there is no way for me to get less than 20mpg in my Civic and i proved him wrong by just stepping on the gas pedal.
I still remember when he told me that there is no way for me to get less than 20mpg in my Civic and i proved him wrong by just stepping on the gas pedal.
07-31-2015, 01:44 PM
#3158
Team Owner
07-31-2015, 02:59 PM
#3159
Moderator
07-31-2015, 04:41 PM
#3160
Team Owner
i had a mental image of what he might look like in my mind that looks very different than that.