KavexTrax

i cannot even fathom why the RL did not get a makeover before the TL!?!?!

the '02 TL facelift was absolutely fine, keep it for at least three years, maybe four. It was selling like hotcakes, why create something new when it was already selling well?

gavriil

Exactly why I made this a sticky and compiled.

AcuraFan

Kia makes more high volume cars than Acura...Kia <i>should</i> sell more. They might as well sell their cars in 6-packs...

A luxury car company is not as interested in volume as an economy company. Compare sales of Acura with sales of other luxury car companies.

NSX-Tuner

For an AWD RL, I as hoping that Acura would use a viscous coupled rear-end that uses some of the power from a 3.5L 360 HP engine. I don't like the idea of a gas/electric hybrid.

heyitsme

I guess I'm ready for the change, I want more hybrids and diesels in the US. The RL should be nice, hopefully it won't be another replica of the TL and TSX.

chungkopi

i don't think acura is a luxury car company

Collective27

I have a feeling this is what it will end up looking like, but i dont think that is a bad thing.

95gt

What is it then?

Compares to lexus, infinti very well. I would consider them luxury companies?

AcuraFan

Yes, Acura is a luxury car company...it's considered to be on the lower end of the luxury market but it's still a luxury company.

1SICKLEX

Its an entry level luxury car company. All their cars are priced 40k and below (except the NSX, which is a sport car).

AcuraFan

...and the RL...

But good point, it's an "entry level" lux company (as are all Japanese lux companies).

1SICKLEX

sigh, the LS 430 has been called the best luxury car period. WTF is entry level about that? Even the non-selling Q45 is well built and 60k. Do not confuse Acura with other Japanese cars.

TypeSAddict

I agree with sick. Acura doesn't compare to the other Japanese luxury brands in terms of prestige. Undoubtedly, they are closer to Infiniti, but Lexus is miles ahead in terms of brand recognition and panache.

AcuraFan

And Acura has a 90K highly regarded sports car (I know, you probably have a hard time with the "highly regarded" part, but it's true, like it or not). So, what's you're point?

I do agree Acura has some catching up to do if they want to compete with Lexus for percieved luxury status. But to a lot of people, if it's not German, it's not a luxury car. It brings to mind a recent conversation I had with a guy that ended with "I'm not buying anything Japanese". So I think Japanese cars (yes, even your beloved Lexus) can still be lumped in to the same category as the lowly "entry" Acura.

goldmember

I don't think anyone here is hating on Acura, shit, I'm sure 99% of us own one. But a 90k highly regarded sports car (which happens to be the shit) doesn't make a difference when it comes to the luxo market, but big, gas guzzling yet refined sedans do.

Personally, I rate Acura and Infiniti at one level and Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes at another, higher level. And this is after having had had a decent amount of experience will all the brands.

For the price, I believe nobody can so much as touch Acura. And that's why they're not as prestigious of a brand, they're more affordable than the rest. Ditto for Infiniti. You can't try to make an affordable luxo brand, you'll just end up being labelled "entry lux."

230K Sport Coupes and ES330s are some of the ugliest cars I've seen, btw.

chungkopi

i guess acura is an entry level luxury car. but then you can argue that buick, chrysler, pontiac, and etc are entry level luxury car because prices are about the same.

acura lineup

rsx-small coupe
tsx-small/midsized sedan
tl-entry level luxo-coupe
mdx-entry level luxury SUV. (but it looks more like 28-30k)
rl-maybe luxury (but there is nothing really luxury about this car. it's closer to avalon than ls430.)
nsx-entry supercar. (doesn't really count)

chungkopi

acura needs
1. 60k+ sedan to compete ls430, A8, 7 series.
2. nice roadster to compete with Z4 and boxster. (like acura version of s2000?)
3. new CLS priced around 35-40k with more horses and AWD or RWD
4. new nsx
5. 50K+ SUV to compete x5, and so on. (yes, 1 more SUV!)
6. something to go against m3, s4, and so on
7. 45K sports sedan to go against 5 series

now, that's luxury car company. i wish acura makes all of them.

KavexTrax

1. 60k+ sedan to compete ls430, A8, 7 series-->RL
2. nice roadster to compete with Z4 and boxster. (like acura version of s2000?)
Sure!

3. new CLS priced around 35-40k with more horses and AWD or RWD
a Z + G35 killer!

4. new nsx, duh!
5. 50K+ SUV to compete x5, and so on. (yes, 1 more SUV!) Naturally.
6. something to go against m3, s4, and so on...
see #3 above.
7. 45K sports sedan to go against 5 series
see #3 above.

gavriil

1. 60k+ sedan to compete ls430, A8, 7 series.

That's the RL coming out soon. Although with the TL getting smaller, the RL might compete with the 5 series.

2. nice roadster to compete with Z4 and boxster. (like acura version of s2000?)

Not a bad idea, though way too many roadsters going around lately.

3. new CLS priced around 35-40k with more horses and AWD or RWD

I doubt RWD for Acura any time soon. Though I do think that a coupe version of the TL would make a ton of sense.


4. new nsx

Well, that's coming. We already know what it's gonna look like really.


5. 50K+ SUV to compete x5, and so on. (yes, 1 more SUV!)

The MDX competes with the X5. And it's doing it well. All the MDX needs is a 3.8 liter engine with 280HP and later a Hybrid version, ala-RX400H And that's coming too I hear. So there is no gap there.

6. something to go against m3, s4, and so on

That would be what you described in #3 only for $45K I would guess.


7. 45K sports sedan to go against 5 series

That's the TL in a way. It's really competing with the 3 and the 5 series sedans. Only for $33K + $2K for the GPS.

The bread and butter are TL and MDX. There is not much money to be made elsewhere really. Coupes dont sell and roadsters are getting harder to make money off of. As long as Acura has a flagship supercar, like the NSX, the MDX, a smaller MDX which is coming soon and the TL and possibly TLS are all they need.

heyitsme

1 Doubt that will ever happen

2 Again, unless the s2000 moves to Acura on the next generation it won't happen

3 Seems possible, but I'd bet more on fwd unless the tl gets awd, the bread and butter should get awd before a 2-door.

4 I don't think the nsx has anything to do with Acura, its a Honda car, nothing luxury about it. The HSC contunues that.

5 Maybe in another 5 years when the market is saturated. Acura is not a mover and it would have to wait till the next gen, which would need a base v6 and a 45k hybrid version. 50k would be fullsize and thats probably 10 years off.

6 Possibly the concept TSX that was shown.

7 Thats the RL, I'd expect the 05 to be priced at 45-50k like the old one. This is where Acura is screwed up unless they plan on adding AWD typeS's a few years after each car intro. TSX goes against the 325, TL skips the 330 and goes for the 530, and the RL I would guess goes against the 545. If they are planning to add typeS's, it makes perfect sence.

chungkopi

1 & 3
hope this new RL is as good as ls430. i think new cls will be closer to G35, but not M3 and S4. acura needs a monster to go against m3

7. 45K sports sedan to go against 5 series
see #3 above.

i'm talkin about a sedan, something like a new GS.

DISRUPTV

if acura made a car like the m3, i'm sure most of ya would not buy it

u guys would say something like "ohh its only a 5-8k differnce b/w the acura and the m3, let me spend that extra cash for the m3 and get the prestige and panache"



trust me acura is in the business 2 make money, if its profitable they will do it, they are also trying 2 bring the brand up in terms of prestige and once they do that i'm sure we will see more direct german competitors

chungkopi

make it 350+hp, 0-60 5.0 sec then people will buy it. of course it needs a nice interior and exterior. nothing can beat m3's handling, but i'm sure there are plenty people interested good looking 45+k acura sports coupe. m3 is about 52-55k, so make it 48k fully loaded.

Fabvsix

The 3.5 260 hp engine in my O3 MDX does QUITE WELL ! It is plenty fast for 4500 plus lbs. ! I've surprised a many of folks that second guess the MDX's capability ! My opinion, it's WAY better than the current Flagship RL ! LMAO ........

SpeedyV6

And although the M3 does handle well, the ride in an M3 is pretty ricey - much worse than the ride in an S2000.

gavriil

Acura plays catch-up with upcoming awd, 300 hp RL sedan - - By KATHY JACKSON AND DALE JEWETT Automotive News

"Acura this fall will equip its flagship RL sedan with all-wheel drive and a 300-hp V-6 engine to challenge luxury rivals who offer rear-drive and V-8s, dealers and analysts say. A hybrid gasoline-electric powertrain also could be part of the package."

"A concept of the redesigned 2005 RL will be shown at the New York auto show in April.

Acura dealers will see the new RL at their annual dealer meeting Aug. 26 in Chicago."

Source: Autoweek

Crazy Bimmer

try to find out where the meeting is, ill just to break in.

heyitsme

I'm sure most of it will be in NY auto show like the TL concept was. In Chicago they'll probably be out on the street like the TL was.

jts1207

I want pics Damn It !!!!!!!!

1SICKLEX

The new RL will then still pit itself against the GS/E-class/5/A6 V-6s and possibly try to get some of the V-8 buyers (I seriously doubt it). The LS/S-class/7 are better than ever, it has no chance against those cars (again). Hopefully some magazine will be interested enough to test it because now RL=:whocares: :whocares: Glad to see AWD on it.

jts1207

I would rather have the BMW or Mercedes equivelant of any Lexus

jts1207

For what its worth, I talked to a district manager for Acura sales and he said the 300hp figure is being conservative and the RL will have more than that. Also confirmed there will end up being a hybrid powertrain for the RL

QuestMGD

It's just sad that Acura has been so lacking in the luxury market by leaving the current RL in the market so long.

Until I see the new RL, I really am not expecting much from it.

gavriil

Sure. That's one of the initial rumors in this thread referring to a 360HP RL with 200HP coming from a torquey 3 liter V6 and 160HP from 2 electric engines.

gavriil

Next Honda-Built Acura RL to Get 300bhp, V6 Hybrid Engine - - just-sites.com - January 27, 2004

The California-based website Autospies claims the next RL model from Honda luxury car division Acura will have a 300bhp six-cylinder hybrid engine.

The report added that most US pundits are expecting a petrol V8 with rear wheel drive, rather than the current models front wheel drive.

Source: Automobile Mag.

TypeSAddict

As nice as that sounds, this car is going to share the engine, and probably pretty much the entire drivetrain (save for the hybrid engines and related components) with an Accord? I dunno if top rung luxury buyers are going to want a luxury car with extensive use of Accord parts. We'll see....the interior better be TOP NOTCH with all the gizmos, or else Acura will be PIITBed again.

gavriil

Hey the XLR is sharing its platform with the C6. I believe the LS with the Avalon and Ford Mondeo with the X Type. Many similar examples.

1SICKLEX

Whoa Gav??? The Lexus LS does not share any platform with the Avalon. The Avalon is a stretched Camry platform. Well, the Tl does have some gizmos the competition does not have at the price. But at the RL price range and with a new GS, A6, S, LS, etc etc I doubt there is any technology it will have the competition won't.

The Legend was a stretched Accord platform no? So the Rl is this too? Wow.

heyitsme

If the TL has bluetooth, maybe the RL will have wifi for the new WiMax standard coming out.

03TL-S

I doubt that any parts from an accord (either japanese/european/american) will share a platform with the RL. I don't think the current RL or former Legend shared the same parts as an accord. As far as i know, the TL shares with the accord but the RL is totally different. I mean come on, the RL(Legend) is honda/acura's highest sedan. The engines in the CL,MDX,TL are pretty much all the same but the RL's is different