Acura: NSX News
10-15-2014, 04:31 PM
#4481
AZ Community Team
What really mattered was the engine choice.
The Mercedes powerplant was the most powerful F1 engine at that time.
In fact, it was so runaway powerful that FIA had to force Mercedes to detune the motor for the following seasons, in order to level out the playing field.
The Mercedes powerplant was the most powerful F1 engine at that time.
In fact, it was so runaway powerful that FIA had to force Mercedes to detune the motor for the following seasons, in order to level out the playing field.
Do you have a source for the FIA forced detuning of the MB motor?
That's literally unheard of in F1, FIA mandate and enforce racing rules with Charlie Whiting as their chief technical director. Going after one F1 motor manufacturer and telling them to detune their motors has never happened before AFAIK.
10-15-2014, 04:58 PM
#4482
AZ Community Team
That's not exactly what I was saying. Their engine supplying venture in the 2000s didn't pan out all that great. They ended up buying out BAR and became a constructor, and that ended worse. So, yes, they have made successful engines in the past, but their more recent history isn't as bright.
But, I'm having a hard time seeing how that can effect their road cars when the trickle down effect to their F1 technology isn't immediate - unless of course that's a sign that the NSX isn't coming out until 2020 at the earliest.
Fun fact - when Honda pulled the plug on their factory team for the '09 season, Ross Brawn bought them out and got MB to supply the engine. Brawn GP won the constructors and drivers championship that year. That must have stung a bit for Honda.
But, I'm having a hard time seeing how that can effect their road cars when the trickle down effect to their F1 technology isn't immediate - unless of course that's a sign that the NSX isn't coming out until 2020 at the earliest.
Fun fact - when Honda pulled the plug on their factory team for the '09 season, Ross Brawn bought them out and got MB to supply the engine. Brawn GP won the constructors and drivers championship that year. That must have stung a bit for Honda.
- Ross bought it for one UK pound.
- Honda paid for most of the early season operational costs
- Sold for 100M UK pounds to MB
- mechanics slept 4 to a hotel room at races
Don't know for sure, but I'd bet Honda staff and board were in extreme pain watching the season as it unfolded. Also Ross didn't share much of the profits of the sale, so many (most?) of the Brawn staff left after the end of the season.
10-16-2014, 12:56 AM
#4483
2G TLX-S
"FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation"
FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
"FIA legalises equalisation of engines"
FIA legalises equalisation of engines - GPUpdate.net
FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
"FIA legalises equalisation of engines"
FIA legalises equalisation of engines - GPUpdate.net
10-16-2014, 09:52 AM
#4484
AZ Community Team
"FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation"
FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
"FIA legalises equalisation of engines"
FIA legalises equalisation of engines - GPUpdate.net
FIA agrees to engine re-equalisation - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
"FIA legalises equalisation of engines"
FIA legalises equalisation of engines - GPUpdate.net
but that article does not indicate that FIA actually forced MB to detune their engines , it indicates that there exists the potential to do so if he teams believe it is necessary.
The FIA has agreed to allow a re-equalisation of engines in Formula 1 next year if teams believe it is necessary, but has said moves will only be done so by pegging back the best power units. Last year, Renault was allowed to re-tune its engine to help bring its performance up to the level of its rivals - with some manufacturers having benefited from minor tweaking during the engine freeze.
Calls for a further parity re-emerged after the Italian Grand Prix, when many teams believed that Mercedes-Benz had opened up a clear advantage at the front of the field.
Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT at Monza: "I think it is something that perhaps needs to be carefully looked at.
"The FIA has all the information they can see where the differences are on, I don't think it is a coincidence that you have three Mercedes-powered teams that dominated six out of the top seven places in qualifying and looked dominant again here in the race today.
"So, the FIA I am sure, they have all that information to hand, but it is always the danger of a freeze that you can freeze in a competitive advantage."
Teams are set to discuss the matter soon and the FIA has made it clear that it will allow changes to be made if there is agreement from the outfits. But parity will not be brought about by bringing the worst power units up to the level of the best.
In a statement issued after the FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing on Monday, the governing body said: "Following suggestions that there is a differential between the performance of engines used in Formula 1, the World Motor Sport Council has decided that should this be the case, and should the teams wish to eliminate this performance differential, they may be allowed to do so by reducing the performance of the more powerful engines. However, no engine upgrades will be allowed."
Should this scenario happen, it could result in Mercedes-Benz being forced to make changes to its engine to bring its performance back down to the level of its rivals - although achieving this will be far from straightforward.
Calls for a further parity re-emerged after the Italian Grand Prix, when many teams believed that Mercedes-Benz had opened up a clear advantage at the front of the field.
Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT at Monza: "I think it is something that perhaps needs to be carefully looked at.
"The FIA has all the information they can see where the differences are on, I don't think it is a coincidence that you have three Mercedes-powered teams that dominated six out of the top seven places in qualifying and looked dominant again here in the race today.
"So, the FIA I am sure, they have all that information to hand, but it is always the danger of a freeze that you can freeze in a competitive advantage."
Teams are set to discuss the matter soon and the FIA has made it clear that it will allow changes to be made if there is agreement from the outfits. But parity will not be brought about by bringing the worst power units up to the level of the best.
In a statement issued after the FIA World Motor Sport Council hearing on Monday, the governing body said: "Following suggestions that there is a differential between the performance of engines used in Formula 1, the World Motor Sport Council has decided that should this be the case, and should the teams wish to eliminate this performance differential, they may be allowed to do so by reducing the performance of the more powerful engines. However, no engine upgrades will be allowed."
Should this scenario happen, it could result in Mercedes-Benz being forced to make changes to its engine to bring its performance back down to the level of its rivals - although achieving this will be far from straightforward.
10-17-2014, 01:40 AM
#4485
2G TLX-S
^^^^^
But interesting enough, it was right after the "FIA-Mercedes-detuning" fiasco in 2009, that Renault engines, starting at the 2010 season, were suddenly dominating the entire F1 fields, just like Mercedes engines did in the previous season.
In fact, Renault won 4 consecutive Constructor's Championship Titles (2010-2013), and it is not till this current season that Mercedes engines are back on top of the game.
Bare in mind that the F1 engine formula should have already frozen in 2009-2013.
But interesting enough, it was right after the "FIA-Mercedes-detuning" fiasco in 2009, that Renault engines, starting at the 2010 season, were suddenly dominating the entire F1 fields, just like Mercedes engines did in the previous season.
In fact, Renault won 4 consecutive Constructor's Championship Titles (2010-2013), and it is not till this current season that Mercedes engines are back on top of the game.
Bare in mind that the F1 engine formula should have already frozen in 2009-2013.
10-17-2014, 02:45 PM
#4486
This car should be a supercharged V6 making mid to upper 400's HP, and it should be selling for 65-75k.
It should be luxury, efficient, reliable, and much more accessible than the exotic roadsters it competes against rather than trying to become a dragstrip queen...
It should be luxury, efficient, reliable, and much more accessible than the exotic roadsters it competes against rather than trying to become a dragstrip queen...
10-17-2014, 03:43 PM
#4487
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
The original NSX took the fight to Ferrari. The new NSX should do the same.
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10-17-2014, 04:37 PM
#4488
Senior Moderator
Nothing like having low aspirations for the car. You just described what the RLX should be (well not SC, rather TT)
10-17-2014, 05:00 PM
#4489
You'll Never Walk Alone
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OTOH, I don't mind Acura launching a sports car that slots below the NSX with most of the attributes you mentioned. Something that would compete well with the M3, C63, RS4, IS F, etc.
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civicdrivr (10-17-2014)
10-17-2014, 06:19 PM
#4490
Team Owner
They don't even have anything to really compete with 335, C400, S4.... let alone M, AMG, RS
10-17-2014, 07:31 PM
#4493
Senior Moderator
10-17-2014, 07:31 PM
#4494
Senior Moderator
10-23-2014, 11:55 AM
#4497
AZ Community Team
^^^^^
But interesting enough, it was right after the "FIA-Mercedes-detuning" fiasco in 2009, that Renault engines, starting at the 2010 season, were suddenly dominating the entire F1 fields, just like Mercedes engines did in the previous season.
In fact, Renault won 4 consecutive Constructor's Championship Titles (2010-2013), and it is not till this current season that Mercedes engines are back on top of the game.
Bare in mind that the F1 engine formula should have already frozen in 2009-2013.
But interesting enough, it was right after the "FIA-Mercedes-detuning" fiasco in 2009, that Renault engines, starting at the 2010 season, were suddenly dominating the entire F1 fields, just like Mercedes engines did in the previous season.
In fact, Renault won 4 consecutive Constructor's Championship Titles (2010-2013), and it is not till this current season that Mercedes engines are back on top of the game.
Bare in mind that the F1 engine formula should have already frozen in 2009-2013.
As far as winning 2010-2013, it was Renault power in a RedBull chassis designed by Adrian Newey. One of the best F1 chassis designers of all time. A F1 car is a system combined with alot of components, so although it had the less powerful Renault motor (no actual claims but 30-40HP? was talked about). The Renault/Lotus team had far less success than RedBull with the same motor. So the essential downforce/aerodynamics of the Newey RBR cars were superior than other cars, esspecially with the blown exhaust diffuser. Also the basic mechanical grip was very good as well on slower circuits. So the main reason RedBull won 2010-2013 was the chassis/aero package, not the Renault motor although it proved to be very reliable.
Good article about the various F1 V8 F1 motor's from the 2000's.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...st-of-the-v8s/
Last edited by Legend2TL; 10-23-2014 at 12:01 PM.
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civicdrivr (10-23-2014)
10-23-2014, 06:25 PM
#4498
2G TLX-S
The retuned 2010-13 Renault engines gained power over the 2009-13 Mercedes engines, or in other words, the 2009-13 Mercedes engine lost it's hp advantage against the retuned 2010-13 Renault engines.
But who got retuned and who not got detuned isn't my main point.
My main point is that, back in the 2009 season, the Mercedes engines were the most powerful F1 powerplants in the field.
Given the fact that the Honda F1 engines, at that time, were not known to generate outstanding output hp.
So, hypothetically speaking, if Honda were to compete in the 2009 season, a Honda-engine-Honda-chassis car would not have enjoy the same success as the Mercedes-engine-Honda-chassis cars which had the most powerful Mercedes engines in the entire field.
10-24-2014, 08:34 AM
#4499
AZ Community Team
Either way, depending on how you look at it.
The retuned 2010-13 Renault engines gained power over the 2009-13 Mercedes engines, or in other words, the 2009-13 Mercedes engine lost it's hp advantage against the retuned 2010-13 Renault engines.
But who got retuned and who not got detuned isn't my main point.
My main point is that, back in the 2009 season, the Mercedes engines were the most powerful F1 powerplants in the field.
Given the fact that the Honda F1 engines, at that time, were not known to generate outstanding output hp.
So, hypothetically speaking, if Honda were to compete in the 2009 season, a Honda-engine-Honda-chassis car would not have enjoy the same success as the Mercedes-engine-Honda-chassis cars which had the most powerful Mercedes engines in the entire field.
The retuned 2010-13 Renault engines gained power over the 2009-13 Mercedes engines, or in other words, the 2009-13 Mercedes engine lost it's hp advantage against the retuned 2010-13 Renault engines.
But who got retuned and who not got detuned isn't my main point.
My main point is that, back in the 2009 season, the Mercedes engines were the most powerful F1 powerplants in the field.
Given the fact that the Honda F1 engines, at that time, were not known to generate outstanding output hp.
So, hypothetically speaking, if Honda were to compete in the 2009 season, a Honda-engine-Honda-chassis car would not have enjoy the same success as the Mercedes-engine-Honda-chassis cars which had the most powerful Mercedes engines in the entire field.
As for your last statement that's your opinion, me hypothetically speaking would say the complete opposite. The Honda-engine-Honda-chassis car would hav enjoyed greater success than the MB car due to the fact that the chassis and aerodynamic package was designed for the Honda motor. It was a compromise to use the MB motor due to it's crankshaft height, size, and other factors. These caused the BGP-001 to have a poor CG and other compromises. IMO the all-Honda solution would hav been more successful since it was originally designed that way, not adopted like the MB motor. Due to static development and other teams catching up, it was not as competitive in the second half of the 2009 season (won 6/7 first races, won 2/10 last races), despite having the MB motor.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 10-24-2014 at 08:39 AM.
10-24-2014, 01:37 PM
#4500
2G TLX-S
^^^^^
Unfortunately, since Honda quited F1 in 2010, we can never tell who's speculation is right and who isn't.
Unfortunately, since Honda quited F1 in 2010, we can never tell who's speculation is right and who isn't.
10-24-2014, 01:49 PM
#4501
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
10-24-2014, 03:40 PM
#4502
AZ Community Team
However the RA109 was in many ways far more advanced than the BGP-001 so IMO it would have been even more competitive.
One of pretty amazing Honda tech was it's ultrasmall gearbox which would have allowed a smaller rear promoting more diffuser downforce.
Pretty good article contrasting the 2009 BGP-001 and the never raced RA-109 (which was used to make the BGP-001)
Honda’s secret F1 car revealed | Racecar Engineering
As Honda is about to move into its 4th era of Formula 1 activity it must be contemplating the lessons of the past. The RA109 could have set a new benchmark in Formula 1, as it would have been packed with innovative design features, and the car is spawned, the Brawn BGP001 went on to win both titles something Honda badly wanted. If Honda had not pulled out of Formula 1 would it have been as successful as Brawn, or perhaps even more successful? It is impossible to say, but perhaps the RA109 was a step too far, too much advanced technology and complex a design. Nobody will ever know.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 10-24-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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10-25-2014, 03:50 PM
#4504
Video: 2016 Acura NSX Prototype Returns to the Nürburgring - Acura Connected
It seems the 2016 Acura/Honda NSX Prototype has returned to the Green Hell for more testing in a video posted today. The vehicles plate numbers and a few other minor differences suggest this is indeed separate footage from the batch that was previously posted in July.
Recent reports state that the second generation Acura NSX is on track for a 2015 launch in North America.
It seems the 2016 Acura/Honda NSX Prototype has returned to the Green Hell for more testing in a video posted today. The vehicles plate numbers and a few other minor differences suggest this is indeed separate footage from the batch that was previously posted in July.
Recent reports state that the second generation Acura NSX is on track for a 2015 launch in North America.
10-26-2014, 06:54 PM
#4505
I feel the need...
Acura NSX Benchmarked Against Ferrari 458, 911 GT3
Carrying on a legacy can be a huge burden, but its a burden Honda's engineers are willing to bear when it comes to development of the new Acura NSX. The successor to the car many consider to be among the greatest sports cars ever built has a lot riding on it, and we've heard a couple stories that suggest that it might just deliver.....
Acura NSX Benchmarked Against Ferrari 458, 911 GT3
10-26-2014, 09:32 PM
#4506
2G TLX-S
Honda quit F1 at end of 2008 season, but correct we'll never know.
However the RA109 was in many ways far more advanced than the BGP-001 so IMO it would have been even more competitive.
One of pretty amazing Honda tech was it's ultrasmall gearbox which would have allowed a smaller rear promoting more diffuser downforce.
Pretty good article contrasting the 2009 BGP-001 and the never raced RA-109 (which was used to make the BGP-001)
However the RA109 was in many ways far more advanced than the BGP-001 so IMO it would have been even more competitive.
One of pretty amazing Honda tech was it's ultrasmall gearbox which would have allowed a smaller rear promoting more diffuser downforce.
Pretty good article contrasting the 2009 BGP-001 and the never raced RA-109 (which was used to make the BGP-001)
You know. My favorite Honda F1 engines are still the 1.5L turbo-V6 (RA166E, RA167E, RA168E), during the 80's, that were capable of generating over 1000hp in the qualifying trim.
10-26-2014, 09:53 PM
#4507
Senior Moderator
Over/under to when this new NSX burns to a crisp...? I'll set it to 1 week.
10-26-2014, 09:54 PM
#4508
Moderator
10-26-2014, 11:33 PM
#4509
Senior Moderator
10-27-2014, 12:40 AM
#4510
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
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10-27-2014, 01:37 AM
#4511
Exhaust note doesn't sound half bad. Could be better, but not bad.
The exhaust note of the convertible behind it (couldn't make out what it was) around the 0:45 mark blew it away though.
The exhaust note of the convertible behind it (couldn't make out what it was) around the 0:45 mark blew it away though.
10-27-2014, 01:43 AM
#4512
10-27-2014, 09:34 AM
#4514
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
10-27-2014, 10:12 AM
#4515
Senior Moderator
Any engine specs? 
<---- Still hatin'.
<---- Still hatin'.
10-27-2014, 10:24 AM
#4516
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
- Boxer V17 layout
- Aluminum bicarbonate intertwined with high ductile strength 90A polyurethane construction
- Tri-supercharged fed turbos
- Indirect injection
- Super Duper Handling All Wheel Drive. Basically, the spare tire has torque vectoring as well.
- The hottest seat heaters available on the market
- 309hp - The most powerful engine ever fitted to an Acura
10-27-2014, 10:35 AM
#4517
Senior Moderator
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10-27-2014, 10:37 AM
#4518
Senior Moderator
Pfft...Anything official from HONDA?
<---- Still really hatin'.
<---- Still really hatin'.
10-27-2014, 10:37 AM
#4519
Senior Moderator
I want a press release. Dammit.
10-27-2014, 12:55 PM
#4520
Honda NSX spotted testing ahead of Detroit motor show debut | Autocar
The Honda NSX has again been spotted testing close to the Nürburgring ahead of a planned public debut at the Detroit motor show next January.
The all-new model, which is due to go on sale towards the middle of next year, will be priced at around £75,000.
Now in the final stages of testing, latest prototypes have been seen sporting a new lower front grille and new air vents in the bonnet.
Honda has already confirmed the new model will be built at its Performance Manufacturing Centre in Ohio. The firm has promised the new car will offer "the excitement of a [Ferrari] 458 at the price of the [Porsche] 911."
As well as the Ferrari and Porsche, other benchmark cars the manufacturer has reportedly used for development include the Nissan GT-R, Audi R8 and McLaren 12C.
The new NSX was first revealed in concept form at the Detroit motor show in 2012 - so it's fitting the production model will make its debut there early in 2015.
The production car retains the concept's Sport Hybrid SH-AWD (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) system, which sees a mid-mounted V6 petrol engine mated to an electric motor which drives the rear wheels.
Twin electric motors also drive the front wheels, while the powertrain is fixed to a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission.
Total power is likely to be around 400bhp, but the most significant factor in the NSX's performance is likely to be its torque - harvested from three electric motors as well as the engine.
Its layout should also provide the NSX with sharp handling, as the twin electric motors in the front also allow torque vectoring.
Honda has previously confirmed that a convertible version of the car will also be launched, following at least two years after the standard car goes on sale.
The Honda NSX has again been spotted testing close to the Nürburgring ahead of a planned public debut at the Detroit motor show next January.
The all-new model, which is due to go on sale towards the middle of next year, will be priced at around £75,000.
Now in the final stages of testing, latest prototypes have been seen sporting a new lower front grille and new air vents in the bonnet.
Honda has already confirmed the new model will be built at its Performance Manufacturing Centre in Ohio. The firm has promised the new car will offer "the excitement of a [Ferrari] 458 at the price of the [Porsche] 911."
As well as the Ferrari and Porsche, other benchmark cars the manufacturer has reportedly used for development include the Nissan GT-R, Audi R8 and McLaren 12C.
The new NSX was first revealed in concept form at the Detroit motor show in 2012 - so it's fitting the production model will make its debut there early in 2015.
The production car retains the concept's Sport Hybrid SH-AWD (Super Handling All Wheel Drive) system, which sees a mid-mounted V6 petrol engine mated to an electric motor which drives the rear wheels.
Twin electric motors also drive the front wheels, while the powertrain is fixed to a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission.
Total power is likely to be around 400bhp, but the most significant factor in the NSX's performance is likely to be its torque - harvested from three electric motors as well as the engine.
Its layout should also provide the NSX with sharp handling, as the twin electric motors in the front also allow torque vectoring.
Honda has previously confirmed that a convertible version of the car will also be launched, following at least two years after the standard car goes on sale.
