Acura: NSX News
08-24-2015, 09:36 AM
#5761
AZ Community Team
Please remember that this winning Brawn GP01 was using the MB engine, not the Honda engine; and it was a well known fact that the MB engine was the most powerful powerplant in the entire F1 field, during that period of time.
But still, credit must be given to Honda which was responsible for the design of the winning Brawn chassis; but MB was also a critical factor in propelling the Honda-designed F1 car to the podiums.
However, even if the Brawn-Honda did exist, and the specs looked good on paper, many questions remained :
- would that Honda engine as powerful/reliable as the potent MB engine ?
- would the Brawn-Honda had chassis-engine teething issues, much like the current ill-fated McLaren-Honda F1 car ?
But unfortunately we'll never find out the answers.
But still, credit must be given to Honda which was responsible for the design of the winning Brawn chassis; but MB was also a critical factor in propelling the Honda-designed F1 car to the podiums.
However, even if the Brawn-Honda did exist, and the specs looked good on paper, many questions remained :
- would that Honda engine as powerful/reliable as the potent MB engine ?
- would the Brawn-Honda had chassis-engine teething issues, much like the current ill-fated McLaren-Honda F1 car ?
But unfortunately we'll never find out the answers.
But the fact remains that the MB although powerful and reliable was also a technical liability to Brawn. It's was larger, heavier, and had a higher crankshaft than the Honda V8. So the Brawn BGP001 had to be modified for the MB powerplant, was too heavy, and weight distribution was unbalanced. However it's superior aerodynamics made up for it with it's double diffuser.
And to prove how not critical the powerplant was in that time period of F1, the McLaren the same year with the same engine placed distant 3rd in the WCC where Brawn placed 1st. The following year again with MB power the McLaren placed a close 2nd and MB placed a distant 4th in the WCC. The 2010-2013 winner? RedBull with their less powerful but reliable Renault power beat MB, Ferrari, and McLaren. Power is important in F1 but superior chassis and aerodynamics were the most important at that time.
As for Honda F1 car, we'll never know but considering the changes and compromises made by Brawn for the MB motor it probably would have been even more successful with Honda motor as long as it was reliable.
08-24-2015, 09:42 AM
#5762
AZ Community Team
Fernando Alonso Takes Delivery Of Honda Civic Type R, Waits For NSX
Fernando Alonso Takes Delivery Of Honda Civic Type R, Waits For NSX
Guess Alonso is not as concerned about waiting for the NSX, not having cooled seats or a volume knob.
He's main concern now is a powerful and reliable F1 motor from Honda for 2016
Guess Alonso is not as concerned about waiting for the NSX, not having cooled seats or a volume knob.
He's main concern now is a powerful and reliable F1 motor from Honda for 2016
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-24-2015 at 09:50 AM.
08-24-2015, 11:15 AM
#5763
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
OMG WOW HE DID IT YAY
okay?
08-24-2015, 12:52 PM
#5765
Team Owner
08-24-2015, 01:08 PM
#5766
Senior Moderator
08-24-2015, 01:47 PM
#5767
AZ Community Team
Last edited by Legend2TL; 08-24-2015 at 01:52 PM.
08-24-2015, 01:54 PM
#5768
Senior Moderator
oh man. that rotary controller was sweet. 
08-24-2015, 04:06 PM
#5769
Team Owner
oh
i thought we were talking about touch screen volume control vs. physical buttons...
i thought we were talking about touch screen volume control vs. physical buttons...
08-24-2015, 04:35 PM
#5770
Senior Moderator
08-24-2015, 04:38 PM
#5771
Team Owner
08-24-2015, 04:52 PM
#5773
Senior Moderator
08-24-2015, 08:21 PM
#5775
Fernando Alonso Takes Delivery Of Honda Civic Type R, Waits For NSX
Guess Alonso is not as concerned about waiting for the NSX, not having cooled seats or a volume knob.
He's main concern now is a powerful and reliable F1 motor from Honda for 2016
Guess Alonso is not as concerned about waiting for the NSX, not having cooled seats or a volume knob.
He's main concern now is a powerful and reliable F1 motor from Honda for 2016
Car looks great in red but would have been even more appropriate if he was still racing for Ferrari.
The following users liked this post:
kurtatx (08-24-2015)
08-25-2015, 08:51 AM
#5776
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Age: 37
Posts: 43,472
Received 3,657 Likes
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It is sad that I came thinking the title was actually real and I was not even shocked about it.
08-25-2015, 11:23 AM
#5777
Team Owner
How do you know it is not real?? Maybe "Indefinitely delay" got postponed too.
08-25-2015, 12:35 PM
#5778
The Chinese market crash (and soon to follow real estate crash) may actually force the cancellation of the NSX. I hope not, but the accountants drive these decisions, not us or the engineers.
08-25-2015, 01:29 PM
#5780
Senior Moderator
Oh sure. Blame us 
for the NSX being cancelled why don't ya... 
That's. That's...That's....WACIST.
for the NSX being cancelled why don't ya... That's. That's...That's....WACIST.
08-25-2015, 03:11 PM
#5781
Suzuka Master
The Acura NSX Will be a Perfect Halo Car, And Here's Why
I was born in the 1990s, which means I'm probably younger than some of you. That also means that the Acura NSX was one of my ultimate hero cars as a kid, alongside cars like the Supra and RX-7. It was a car that did something in my young psyche that no car had ever done before. It just…worked.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
08-25-2015, 03:26 PM
#5782
Team Owner
So basically, that guy pointed out why Acura sucks today, admitting the TLXs lacklustre sales numbers and overall as being "not the best option in the segment".
He even points out 2005s sales numbers and saying that the TSX was the only glimmer of hope. This guy obviously knows nothing about the TL. Those two cars sold over 60 of the 210k units for that year. Let's not forget the RSX that was still hot.
The new TLX is "leaps and bounds ahead of where Acura used to be, in terms of luxury" ??? What about the 3G TL that put Acura on the map of affordable luxury? That was the car to have ten years ago. The new TLX is compared as being cheap plastic shit as far as luxury goes these days. It's dumb fucks like this who shouldn't be allowed to write articles.
Back in 2005, Acura was selling everything besides the NSX. Most people had no idea what the fuck an NSX even was at that point, with only 200ish being sold. That, and it was 15 years old and the only thing attracting buyers was the funky colours inside and out that were not previously available.
But I like how he makes a point of addressing Acura's "faux sporty marketing scheme" Acura is as sporty as a horse and wagon these days. I'm still waiting on this claim from the VP for the exhilarating performance, dynamic design and premium content. 
He even points out 2005s sales numbers and saying that the TSX was the only glimmer of hope. This guy obviously knows nothing about the TL. Those two cars sold over 60 of the 210k units for that year. Let's not forget the RSX that was still hot.
The new TLX is "leaps and bounds ahead of where Acura used to be, in terms of luxury" ??? What about the 3G TL that put Acura on the map of affordable luxury? That was the car to have ten years ago. The new TLX is compared as being cheap plastic shit as far as luxury goes these days. It's dumb fucks like this who shouldn't be allowed to write articles.
Back in 2005, Acura was selling everything besides the NSX. Most people had no idea what the fuck an NSX even was at that point, with only 200ish being sold. That, and it was 15 years old and the only thing attracting buyers was the funky colours inside and out that were not previously available.
But I like how he makes a point of addressing Acura's "faux sporty marketing scheme"
Acura is as sporty as a horse and wagon these days. I'm still waiting on this claim from the VP for the exhilarating performance, dynamic design and premium content.
Last edited by TacoBello; 08-25-2015 at 03:29 PM.
08-25-2015, 05:50 PM
#5784
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
No buttons on my steering wheel! 
08-25-2015, 07:19 PM
#5786
Team Owner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO (Overland Park, KS)
Posts: 36,545
Received 6,470 Likes
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The Acura NSX Will be a Perfect Halo Car, And Here's Why
Quote:
I was born in the 1990s, which means I'm probably younger than some of you. That also means that the Acura NSX was one of my ultimate hero cars as a kid, alongside cars like the Supra and RX-7. It was a car that did something in my young psyche that no car had ever done before. It just…worked.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
This is a lot to hang your hat on for a brand that keeps delaying their "Halo" car.
Quote:
I was born in the 1990s, which means I'm probably younger than some of you. That also means that the Acura NSX was one of my ultimate hero cars as a kid, alongside cars like the Supra and RX-7. It was a car that did something in my young psyche that no car had ever done before. It just…worked.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
This is a lot to hang your hat on for a brand that keeps delaying their "Halo" car.
08-25-2015, 09:36 PM
#5787
Senior Moderator
Well, it is made by the and so, it really is a "haro" car.
and so, it really is a "haro" car.
08-26-2015, 01:29 PM
#5788
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
More like Harro car.
08-27-2015, 02:30 PM
#5789
Senior Moderator
I was born in the 1990s, which means I'm probably younger than some of you. That also means that the Acura NSX was one of my ultimate hero cars as a kid, alongside cars like the Supra and RX-7. It was a car that did something in my young psyche that no car had ever done before. It just…worked.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
So when Acura debuted the new NSX concept in 2012, I was enthralled from the beginning. My hero was back to save the automotive world from blandness and obscurity.
Here's the thing, though—there are some people being very critical of the new NSX, for reasons I don't really understand. Yes, it's going to be a hybrid. No, it won't have a manual transmission. Welcome to the future, sorry you’re disappointed. Not to mention no one has even had a chance to drive the damn thing yet.
But the one that really grinds my gears, is the argument that the Acura NSX won't be a good halo car. It will a perfect halo car, and here's why.
Cars like the NSX arrive every few years in order to rejuvenate a brand. We saw it with the Audi R8, we're seeing it with the Jaguar F-Type, and we're about to see it again with the new NSX. But the general consensus is, that in order for the NSX to be successful, it needs to have a solid mainstream lineup behind it, or at least one solid mainstream car. That’s only partly true.
Between 2002 and 2005 when the NSX was new and on sale, Acura—as a whole—sold almost 210,000 cars in a single year (2005). If you remember the Acura lineup in the early 2000s, that’s almost unbelievable. The only shimmer of hope being the TSX. But somehow, just having the NSX as a calling card worked, and consumers flocked.
Today, Acura is managing to move over 25,000 TLX sedans already this year (according to GoodCarBadCar.net), which is respectable. The car itself is good looking, leaps and bounds above where Acura used to be in terms of luxury, and from what I've heard, it's not that bad of a drive either.
It's definitely not the best option in the segment, granted, but Acura is betting on the TLX to move the brand in the right direction on the back of the NSX. Acura's new faux sporty marketing scheme will help with that too.
I think Acura Executive VP Erik Berkman said it best when he said, “Moving forward, you can expect premium products that place even greater emphasis on dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance." It may not be 100% true, but the NSX has been the centerpiece for this new direction from the day it was imagined, and other cars will follow suit.
We can probably all agree that Acura's lineup isn't perfect, but it's not terrible; definitely not as bad as it was in the early 2000s. The NSX is going to be the car to turn it all around, and the TLX will go home with a few thousand naive buyers while Acura continues to work out the kinks going forward.
Don't underestimate the power of the NSX, people.
08-29-2015, 10:13 AM
#5790
"...dynamic design, premium content, and exhilarating performance". So what? Everyone else is convaying the same message. How about "...Reliability, Customer Service, Get What You Pay For..."?
08-29-2015, 11:47 AM
#5791
Team Owner
Sadly, Acura missed the mark on all 6 of those points you listed.
08-29-2015, 03:20 PM
#5792
Moderator
08-30-2015, 01:05 AM
#5793
Team Owner
When did Acura become a lux brand again? 
08-30-2015, 10:05 AM
#5794
Ok, but let's not talk about honda customer service... Not many good experiences. Acura is a premium brand. Premium brands should come with premium service and I am not talking about washing the car after an oil change. But changing the damn transmission each an every time the factory or the designers mess it up.
08-30-2015, 02:05 PM
#5795
Moderator
Well, there's that...
Ahh, I understand better what you were trying to say. I thought the comment I was responding too was touting Acura as a value-play in its market. Now I get it.
Yes, Acura has a LONG way to go to catch up to the market in every area.
Ok, but let's not talk about honda customer service... Not many good experiences. Acura is a premium brand. Premium brands should come with premium service and I am not talking about washing the car after an oil change. But changing the damn transmission each an every time the factory or the designers mess it up.
Yes, Acura has a LONG way to go to catch up to the market in every area.
08-30-2015, 08:34 PM
#5796
Senior Moderator
Ok, but let's not talk about honda customer service... Not many good experiences. Acura is a premium brand. Premium brands should come with premium service and I am not talking about washing the car after an oil change. But changing the damn transmission each an every time the factory or the designers mess it up.
Acura is a company like any other auto-maker trying to turn a profit. I don't think they understand that you have to spend money to make money.
08-31-2015, 07:47 AM
#5797
Agree, that bmw v8 was a mess, despite all the wheel spinning at top gear and other shills etc. those who bought it, bought a big lie!
What John, the new boss, needs to put #1 on his list if he wants to survive the dog eat dog world of executives he has found himself in, is quality assurance and customer service. Otherwise he is going to become yet another nobody. Design, and lots of look-good lines ain't gonna cut it for me anymore. I want a car I can drive off the dealer's parking lot without worries, especially after reading all the TLX tranny mess ups here.
We are a bit off topic here, but I hope the new boss is reading all this!
What John, the new boss, needs to put #1 on his list if he wants to survive the dog eat dog world of executives he has found himself in, is quality assurance and customer service. Otherwise he is going to become yet another nobody. Design, and lots of look-good lines ain't gonna cut it for me anymore. I want a car I can drive off the dealer's parking lot without worries, especially after reading all the TLX tranny mess ups here.
We are a bit off topic here, but I hope the new boss is reading all this!
08-31-2015, 01:28 PM
#5798
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Acura isn't reading the forum.
That's for sure.
That's for sure.
08-31-2015, 01:34 PM
#5799
Senior Moderator
The following users liked this post:
fsttyms1 (09-01-2015)
08-31-2015, 02:02 PM
#5800
Senior Moderator
haha