fsttyms1

Because then it would be too close to the RLX and they didnt want to step on its toes and take away from its overall sales figures.

00TL-P3.2

Fibonacci

In all seriousness, the MDX is heavier than the RLX so why not give it the same sport hybrid powertrain and move it upscale a bit with a bigger premium over the standard mechanical SH-AWD.

Seems to me like this powertrain would be a better match for the TLX. Just sayin'.

fsttyms1

neoshi

Have this odd feeling that they couldn't rationalize selling the MDX SHSH on just being more of the S in SUV alone, so they had to downsize to get something else big on consumers' minds these days, MPGs. All of this, of course, without sacrificing the driving experience that the conventional models give and only at a $1500 premium to boot for their volume sales leader, the Tech model.

Fibonacci

Maybe you haven't seen recent sales numbers, but consumers don't care about MPG's which is why Trucks/gas guzzling SUV's are selling like hot cakes and small cars/hybrid sales are in the dumps.

Someone at Acura corporate still doesn't have a good idea on how to conduct basic marketing. Luxury buyers care about customization and uniqueness.

Wifey wanted dark silver/saddle brown leather, you can't configure an MDX that way. Good bye MDX, hello GLS.

fsttyms1

The lack of options/variations sometimes comes to really bite Honda/Acura.

neoshi

I have seen their recent sales numbers and the MDX is down significantly. So it isn't exactly a hot cake when consumers are hesitant about the new looks and people are still trying to figure out if the sport hybrid is worth that extra premium over the conventional model.

Fibonacci

But don't you suspect that is simply because of the late model cycle. Current year MMC doesn't improve upon the interior at all. Needs panoramic roof, needs physical HVAC buttons, needs upgraded NAV, needs Apple Play, needs better interior color choice combos, etc.

Fair point.

Edward'TLS

Because the much cheaper Honda Pilot is killing off the MDX sales.

neoshi

Yep, that too. Honda is really gutting the benefits of Acura besides the sportier driving experience.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Oh, I was just saying that objectively, it makes sense to pay $1500 for the sport hybrid model. But people don't always think objectively. So for sure, it might make sense, but doesn't mean it will sell well, or sell more than the regular model.

The reason why the traditional models always outsell their hybrid counterparts by a significant margin is because the hybrid models are quite a bit more money. For instance, the RX350 AWD starts at $44k, while the RX450h starts at $53k. That's a good $9k jump.

Even if we step back a bit and talk about more affordable cars, the difference is still quite noticeable. For instance, using the Camry as an example, the LE model starts at $23k. The Hybrid LE trim stats at $26.8k. That's nearly $4k difference.

I think it comes down to marketing. The problem with marketing the MDX as a 377hp sporty SUV is that, it's not powerful enough to compare to the likes of X5 M, GLE 63, etc. It's not even enough to challenge X5 5.0i or GLE 550. This is the same sort of issue the RLX is facing.

By going with the 3.0L Sport hybrid setup, they can claim better fuel economy, while producing total output comparable to the RX450h, GLE350, Q7 3.0T. etc.

Part of the problem is that Honda didn't have enough capacity to produce the MDX, Pilot, Odyssey, and Ridgeline all at the same plant. That's why Honda recently moved the MDX production to the Ohio plant.

oonowindoo

Why does 377hp MDX have to compete with the M and AMG? Can't Acura position it at X5 3.0 X drive or GLE450? or 350 whatever their current # is. At the end of the day, they are all 6 cylinders right?
Somehow Acura still want to offer inferior product at an inferior price..... it does not work in that segment. How many more years does it need for Acura to realize that?

RDX10

Something many people (and myself) seem to forget is that the MDX already performs comparably to the X5 3.0, GL 450/350...etc. It only weighs 3900 pounds so it does 0-60 in about 5.9s. Those are not bad numbers at all given it's size. Acura should have given the RLX drivetrain, but given it's size could have upped the juice to 400hp (iirc the RLX has the potential of 420hp but is limited to 377 for some reason). Yes batteries add weight, but if they could use some more aluminum in the suspension and body and therefore shes a nice 200-300 pounds, it should even out. I could see a 400hp MDX hittint 60 in roughly 5.0s. It won't scare the X5M (0.60 in 3.6s) or the GLS AMG (0-60 in 4.2s?). But it gives the Acura lineup a halo model and gets people to look at Acura.

On the flip side, maybe down sizing to 3.0L gives a better weight distribution and with the batteries down low and in the back it should solve the front end push.

fsttyms1

Or how about they grow a pair and actually come out with a Type-s/Type-R or whatever they want to call it and make models that can compete with the M/AMG etc.. (and by make i mean with actual powertrain enhancements to back it up and not some cheesy body kit only). How about making a cheaper higher volume version of the TT NSX motor for the other cars in the lineup to boost performance. They dont have to be volume sellers but they could be made to sell as many as the competition does.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I didn't say the 377hp MDX competes with the M and AMG. They are not even in the same league. The MDX right now already competes well with the X5 35i, GLE350, Q7 3.0T, QX60, etc. Its engine isn't as strong, but it's several hundred pounds lighter than everyone else. The performance level is very competitive.

For sure it's nice to have the 3.5L 377hp powertrain for just $1.5k more. But chances are, if they did put in the 3.5L engine, it's gonna be more than $1.5k. Unfortunately for Acura, they don't have the power to really ask for more money. That's a big problem in itself and is for another discussion. But it is what it is for now - no quick fix.

IAnyway, I think MDX is still doing pretty well in its segment, despite suffering from production capacity limitation? There's certainly a good amount of people buying the MDX:
GLE 4,017 +1.7%
X5 3,900 +1.5%
MDX 3,541 -17.5%
Enclave 2,973 -27.9%
QX60 2,658 -2.6%
Q7 2,477 +49.8%
GX 1,527 -7.5%
XC90 1,341 -45.8%
QX70 986 +38.5%
MKT 287 +22.6%

I don't know, but that's still pretty amazing that it's right up there not too far behind the top 2, despite suffering from production limitation and lack of powertrain options. With the MDX recent move to a new plant, and the introduction of the hybrid model, may be things will get better again?

RDX10

I used those EXACT words on here before as well. I asked why can't Acura grow a pair and offer some real engines. We're on the same page my friend. With only being 3900 pounds (that is a fricken 1100 pound advantage on the Germans) just strapping one turbo and cranking 350hp should give it a 5 second 0-60, give it a TTV6 and it will most definitely put a hurting on the Germans.

I don't know why they are so damn scared to bring the fight to the Germans and other Japanese. Acura may not be huge, but Honda is. They have the R&D money to do this stuff. You have some Kia and Hyundai models with twin turbo V6's, 5.0L V8's...etc. Yet Acura is too much of a pussy to try? I get there are FWD limitations, then fricken stop making it FWD based. Give me a break.

oonowindoo

What you are saying is the technical benefits and details consumer might or might not care about. If it is for a discussion on this forum, absolutely. But we are talking about how to make Acura "Great" again.

oonowindoo

Yah MDX is pretty much the only model that is keeping Acura alive, which is why being mediocre or just acceptable is not acceptable. If most of the other models in Acura lineup are also as competitive as MDX, then i guess that is ok. But the reality is... Acura is dying slowly....

RDX10

So far all I am seeing is the same results as making "america great again". Lol

oonowindoo

Well that is for another thread. But yah if Acura wants a different result, they will have to start listening and actually offer different products.

RDX10

True! I really hope that for the 4G MDX they bring back the masculine looks of the 2G.

fsttyms1

and that is why they put it on the vehicles with the SH-AWD. Then they dont have to worry as much about the FWD limitations.

RDX10

Exactly! Why the hell make this trick AWD system and then are too scared to give it power? The lincoln MKX and Ford Edge sport both can be had with FWD and a TT2.7l. The lincoln puts down 345hp and a whopping 380lb/ft!!! That can be had in an exclusively FWD trim too! That kind of power with sh-awd would be ridiculously good.

TSX69

New MDX Hybrid Acura Prices CUV Below Comps Engines content from WardsAutoAcura MDX Hybrid Set at Low End of Large-Luxury Scale

Mar 30, 2017 Christie Schweinsberg WardsAuto

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Comments0The new Acura hybrid CUV will undercut the Lexus RX 450h and Infiniti QX60, as well as plug-in hybrid CUVs from BMW, Mercedes and Volvo.
'18 Acura MDX Sport Hybrid on sale in April in U.S.

Related Media

Acura Refreshes MDX, Adds Hybrid Powertrain

• Refreshed Acura TLX NY-Bound
• Acura RLX Hybrid Tech-Tastic

SEATTLE – Acura positions its forthcoming MDX Sport Hybrid as the lowest-price entrant in the U.S. large-luxury hybrid CUV segment, confident it can achieve the incremental volume it wants from the CUV.

Acura expects the new hybrid to account for 5% of overall MDX sales. In recent years it has sold 55,000-60,000 units of the CUV annually in the U.S.

The 3-row MDX will start at $51,960 when it reaches U.S. Acura dealers next month, below the $53,035 and $53,500 starting prices of the Lexus RX 450h and Infiniti QX60 hybrid CUVs and well south of the plug-in hybrid trio of the BMW X5 Xdrive 40e, Mercedes GLE 550e and Volvo XC90 T8.

“We think we’ve established a strong winning position (with specifications and by undercutting the competition),” Gary Robinson, manager-Acura product planning, tells attendees here at an ’18 MDX Hybrid media event.

Acura calculates its advantage is $1,075 against the RX and up to $15,840 with the GLE. The 3 European PHEVs start in the $60,000 range, but often transact above $70,000, Robinson says.

MDX Sport Hybrid fuel economy comes in at 26/27 mpg (9.0-8.7 L/100 km) city/highway, falling shy of the 2-row Lexus RX’s 31/28 mpg (7.6-8.4 L/100 km) city/highway rating. However, Acura officials here emphasize the MDX provides more total horsepower with the MDX than the RX, 321 hp vs. 308 hp.

“This is our unique way to express our performance,” Jon Ikeda, vice president and general manager-Acuram says of using the NSX supercar’s 3-motor hybrid system under the hood of the MDX.

The 3-motor system has 2 36-hp motors, separated by a 1-way clutch to vector torque side-to-side between rear wheels, and a 47-hp front motor integrated to a 7-speed DCT powering the front wheels. The engine in the MDX hybrid is a 257-hp 3.0L SOHC V-6.

The variant wears many of the same styling cues as Acura’s non-hybrid MDX, which was refreshed last year for ’17 with the brand’s new diamond pentagon grille and higher-quality interior materials such as open-pore wood. The slight styling differences for the hybrid include a lower aero kit, body-color side sills and stainless-steel pedals.

Acura claims the MDX is the No.1 premium 3-row CUV purchased by those under 35 years old and it sees a similarly young buyer for the MDX hybrid, noting those buying large luxury hybrid CUVs tend to be younger than large luxury non-hybrid CUV buyers due to the need for seating for young families. They also have a keen interest in technology and eco-friendly attributes.

The brand sees the typical MDX hybrid buyer as a Millennial or on the younger end of Generation X and making $250,000 or more in annual household income. “It sounds like kind a little bit of a unicorn, but those people are out there and interested in this type of vehicle,” Robinson says.

The MDX Sport Hybrid will be assembled at the MDX’s new home in East Liberty, OH. Some MDX production is continuing Honda’s Lincoln, AL, plant as East Liberty ramps up.

This week, the Japanese automaker announced it was investing $85 million in Lincoln, also home to 3 Honda-brand models (Odyssey minivan, Pilot large CUV, Ridgeline midsize pickup) to increase the plant’s flexibility. Phase 1 of the project calls for an expansion of vehicle-assembly Line 1, slated for completion in 2018.cschweinsberg@wardsauto.com

TSX69

RDX10

That bolded part goes to show you how out of touch with reality the brand is. Millenial that is younger and makes over 250K....yes because all 50 of those people are going to keep the brand afloat. More than that, they must be gassed to think people making 250k+ a year is looking at Acuras. Give me a break.

oonowindoo

kurtatx

Millennials making $250k per. Jesus Christ

RDX10

The best part is that they stress YOUNG millennial. The stupidity does not stop at just saying millennial.

kurtatx

Lol. The youngest Millennials are 20. The oldest are like 32. I hate Acura marketing. We can hate on the cars all we want, but at least they are solid moderately upscale vehicles. Acura marketing is a complete joke and easily the weakest part of the company.

Fibonacci

I think they confused the ones with 250k in student loan debt living in their parents basement. Those ones will be all over this earth dreams MDX super duper E-SHAWDrizzle fo shizzle.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

To their defense, they said millenial or YOUNGER Gen X'er. Doesn't stop the Acura crack smoke from clouding their reality. As an older Millenial with the income to afford a nicer vehicle, I would not cross shop the current MDX.

RDX10

Something just got to my attention. The MDX is supposed to be family crossover, most millennials that age don't have/don't want kids and thus don't want or need a family crossover. Man I wish I could have been there to take a shit on that guy.

Edward'TLS

Younger end of the Generation Whatever, will want a fast 2-door sport coupe, not a big and clumsy high-hanging crossover.

Yes, a 2-DOOR SPORT COUPE. Please wake up and do it, Acura.

oonowindoo

2 door coupe from Acura?

With the way Acura is right now, we can accurately guess what it looks like and how it will perform if Acura actually make a coupe. and it is DOA.

kurtatx

Yeah, that won't ever happen. I would settle for a proper sports sedan (read: no FWD, 300+ hp)

TSX69

Fibonacci

Wake me up, before you go~go
I'm not hangin' round, cuz Honda's so~slow...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think we will see if they have balls or not before 2020. Acura has been mainly a North American-only brand for the past 30 years or so. It was until recent years that Acura becomes more widespread in Russia and China. With those two markets, especially China, growing, Honda has finally committed to giving more funding to Acura for development. In the past, the low budget was fine. Nowadays, with the luxury segment getting ever more competitive, relying on Honda chassis and parts bin no longer works. You can read a little bit more about it in John Mendel's retirement interview. I guess it's not really a surprise or secret for anyone that Honda has been stingy with forking out money for the Acura division.

The RDX is doing fine sale wise too, which strengthens the notion that Acura is currently more of a SUV company. To be fair, the TLX is doing okay too in its segment. But yes, like you said, all of these are due to the lower pricing.

Come on guys...the article says "typical MDX hybrid buyer as a Millennial or on the younger end of Generation X and making $250,000 or more in annual household income."

It doesn't say YOUNG millennial. And it doesn't say ONE millennial making $250k/annually, it's HOUSEHOLD income. I think we need to get the facts right before firing shots at Acura.....we can't say Acura is stupid just b

Millennials typically means people with birth years from early 1980's to late 90'. Gen X covers early 1960's to early 80's. In other words, the target group is for people with birth years from 1975-1999 (~20-40 yr old).

Maybe it's a stretch for people under 25, but I think there are many 30-40 year-old people out there making over $100k a year, that are married, and have kids? And when you have two people making $100k+ married together, $250k doesn't sound unreasonable?