Adamo0926

To anyone that can provide some answers...

I would like to upgrade my TL system by doing the following:
1) Add a 4 channel amp
2) Add a subwoofer box in the trunk
3) Add a subwoofer amp
4) Replace the speaker separates in the front
5) Replace the rear fill speakers
6) Disconnect the stock subwoofer mounted under the rear deck
6) Keep the stock head unit

Here are my questions....hopefully someone out there can help

1) Is it possible to do this and keep the 5.1 surround or do I have to sacrifice that for this kind of upgrade ?

2) Where is the current 5.1 surround signal decoded ? Does the head unit decode the signal or is the signal decoded by the stock amplifier ?

3) Has anyone out there had an upgrade done like this ? If so, what were your results ? Were you pleased with the outcome ?

I realize that the stock system is matched to the car's environment. While this is a concern, I don't think it's that much of a concern since equalization could be used if neccessary.

If anyone has any information about all of this....I would more than appreciate it. You can reply directly to me if you wish by emailing Umie79@aol.com or you can post something here depenind on how much information you have for me.

Thanks in advance !

King of Pain

Here's a link to my install. There are several other good installs if you do a search. You will need to amp the five channels for the speakers, fronts, center, rears in additon to an amp for the sub if you want to retain the 5.1. The 5.1 signal is decoded by the head unit. PM me if you have any more questons.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133822

ALL factory features and functions have been retained and it sounds amazing

tfe691

I will be nice and not make you use the search engine.

1)No you will not have to sacrifice the 5.1 as long as you keep the stock amp in place for the center channel.

2)It is decoded at the headunit.

3)Yes i used the clean sweep from jlaudio and it will fix the equalization part. You pop a setup cd from jl into the cd player and about 30 secs later it is re equalized. The down side is it is only a 4 channel processor that only accepts full range inputs. so no sub input. would have to sacrifice the rear channel for the sub, use a loc or run your sub from your 4 channel signal ouput if it has one.

or you could wait for the rockfordfosgate 360.1 to come out which is palm os bluetooth controlled and accepts sub low level inputs.

here is a link to my stereo http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2067740/2

ITL

why does the stock amp have to be retained for the center?

tfe691

It doesn't have to be retained but he only wanted to add a 4 channel and a sub. If not i would suggest the rockfordfosgate 360.2 coming out that will have a center input or us a loc and a 5.1 channel amp.

ITL

thx, tfe...If I decide to upgrade the factory speakers and amp, I'd want to get rid of the factory amp so I could put my carpc in that spot instead of its current location in the glovebox.

kyle-wdp

Many of us are finding out that you need the factory amp to get a decent usable signal. Good luck though, car pcs are sweet

tfe691

my cleansweep works just fine.

Black_05_TL_6SP

If interested in keeping the 5.1 and not having to have several amps, Audiobahn offers a great solution. The A5100T is a true 5.1 amp, it has a front, rear, sub and center output. I am personally running this amp. All the speakers in the car have been replaced, although this could be used on your factory speakers. The speakers in the car ar not bad speakers, they are just really under powered. The tweeters in the dash are a little to pingey for me, I like the silk dome style myself. The Sub really needs to be put into a box, as free air is not a great way to go for bass response. I myself work at circuit city in the car stereo department, so I have spent some time working with stereo equipment. There are only a few true 5.1 amps out at this time, so my choices where limited and I didn't want to go with 3 amps. Takes up to much room for me. I have done systems in the past that took up the back seat and the trunk, and didn't want to do that again. I am using the output straight from the radio and not out of the amp. To do this, you must turn the output into RCA. You don't have to worry about getting a Line Level Converter this way, but does require some wiring skill's. Within the forums I found a wiring diagram for the factroy radio that gives the color of the wires needed. Jason

ITL

great info, Black. This is what I was looking for. I needed to know if the factory amp could be ditched entirely. I assume you're not having any noise or interference problems.

Adamo0926

This is a list of the equipment I am considering:

1) Eclipse PA-5532 5 channel amp OR Eclipse XA5000 5 channel amp

2) Boston Acoustics SL-60 separates for the front

3) Boston Acoustics SL-65 co-axials for the rear deck

4) Boston Acoustics G2 10 or 12 inch sub in a sealed box

I would be keeping the factory amp and let it drive the center channel and may or may not replace the center channel speaker.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I still have to get my gains set, but NO I don't have any engine whine in it. The only thing I have is a hiss from the center gain being to high. Just haven't had time to set it, not to mention its a pain to do by yourself. Need one person in the car and another to set it! There are several options as far as the wiring goes. You can get it right off the back of the radio and create 3 pairs of RCA outputs there, or at the amp itself. Or you can run wiring to the back and then add the RCA ends on there. Be sure to use good twisted pair wiring and to run it down the opposite side as the amp power wire. If you have any questions feel free to ask me.

Jason

Black_05_TL_6SP

You will never hear the center if you try to do it this way. That amp is way under powered. You will want to find a 6 channel amp that is set up to do 5.1, this will keep everything even.

Jason

Adamo0926

Jason,

I see what you are saying but I don't listen to DVD Audio discs very often anyway. Also, I don't know if any of the channels of the OEM amp are birdgeable, but if they are that is also a possibility to create more power. And actually I am going for aftermarket power more for sound quality than have the opportunity to blow the doors off with SPL's. With the volume levels I listen at I would say that the center speaker will blend in fine about 85% of the time.

Unfortunately not very many companies make 6 channel amps especially ones designed for 5.1. I want high quality amps. I'm used to having ADS (going way back) and Kicker amps in my car installs. Eclipse is another high end company with a stellar reputation. I thought about Rockford-Fosgate since they are coming out with a 6 channel amp, but I have read that they have gone downhill in recent years. I've always been under the impression the Rockford-Fosgate concentrates more on getting big SPL's than they do about musical accuracy.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I have been into the car audio scene for a LONG time. I do remeber ADS. As for quality, Rockford has never had a great amp for sound quality. Eclipse is good, Alpine has one as well(very good quality- probably the best), The audiobahn is great. Be sure that it is a true 5.1 and not just a 6 channel. There is a difference in the way the crossovers are set up. Most 6 channel amps are just three 2 channel amps put together. Not really what you want. As for the blending, you will have to turn the new amp down so much to match the factory one that it would defeat the pupose of using it. Best to go ahead and do it all at once. As for the not listening to DVD audio, it doesn't matter, the XM uses it and so do normal disc's. It is just a combination of the left and right channels. The radio is the only thing that I found that really doesn't take advantage of the center. And lord knows, I don't listen to regular radio any more.

Jason

Adamo0926

Jason,

I don't hear anything coming out of the center channel when listening to regular CD's or to XM radio....but I will listen a little closer when I go down to my car in a bit. I would be surprised if the system would make use of the center channel for conventional stereo CD's and broadcasts as that would have a major impact on the soundstage. Plus, there is no center channel in conventional stereo....I was under the impression that only surround sound had a center channel coded and that would be decoded by the surround processor before the signal is sent to the amplification....

I suppose I could get a low power 2 channel amp and bridge it to drive the center channel but that might be overkill for the center channel.

Black_05_TL_6SP

The center does work, I know because I set the amp up with XM and the center plays. As for overkill, NEVER!!! Sound staging is still correct. You want the sound to come from in front of you and from the center. That is why some aftermarket radio's offer time correction. That way you can create a phatom center.

Jason

Adamo0926

Jason....either I am going deaf or insane....lol.....but I don't hear any musical information being repruduced by the center speaker when playing conventional stereo discs or listening to conventional stereo broadcasts. I turned the center speaker all the way down and all the way up several times and heard no difference at all. I guess this will remain a mystery....lol

Black_05_TL_6SP

Off of the radio, it does not. CD's do, but then again I had the gain on the amp higher. The power the factory amp uses is just to low, that is the whole reason why I changed all that. Good luck with it. Jason

weedeater

IIRC, the center is used for Nav. It is also a 4" speaker so I don't think an extra 6" (from a pair for the fronts) would fit. A better choice might be a coax in this spot.

But I could be wrong.

Black_05_TL_6SP

It is used for Nav., Bluetooth, XM and 5.1 DVD audio disc's. Not 4", but 3 1/2" speaker, and a coaxil will work fine.

Adamo0926

Black,

I did some research on the Audiobahn 5.1 amp and was pretty impressed with what I read. Here is my dilemma though. There is a car audio store in my town which carries Audiobahn but they quote the retail price of the amp as being 1200.00 and said they could probably do it for 1000.00. But I also found the amp online, brand new, for 699.00....a much more palateable price. The problem is that most places are inclined to install only equipment that the store sells. And I DON'T do my own installations.

So if I have to spend 1000.00 for just the amp, I can't see myself going in that direction. I can get the Eclipse PA-5532 for 399.00 or the latest version, the Eclipse XA5000 for about 549.00. Both Eclipse amps are only 5 channel however which still leaves me with using the OEM amp to power the center channel.

jim.murdoch

great point

rich20730

Wow! I hope he wasn't waiting on the edge of his seat for a response. Lol

MarcoNorthPolo

7.5 years. Awesome! Welcome jim.Murdoch!

dee_snutts

I apologize if this information is already listed here somewhere. I just got a 05 TL and I want to put in my aftremarket radio. But it seems that removing the oem head unit disables the touch screen on the nav. Nav still boots up but only gets to the warning screen and clicking "ok" is not possible. Once I put the oem head unit back in, all is fine. Thanks for any info