Will the Plane Take-Off - Merged with MythBusters Show Thread
08-18-2006, 12:55 PM
#121
Creepy guy in the mirror.
NSXNEXT.
The whole time I am thinking "he is smarter than this, why cant he figure this one out". I mean in most of your other posts you sound smart.
I shoulda figured you were screwing with us.
hahah
The whole time I am thinking "he is smarter than this, why cant he figure this one out". I mean in most of your other posts you sound smart.
I shoulda figured you were screwing with us.
hahah
08-18-2006, 12:59 PM
#123
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by JLatimer
NSXNEXT.
The whole time I am thinking "he is smarter than this, why cant he figure this one out". I mean in most of your other posts you sound smart.
I shoulda figured you were screwing with us.
hahah
The whole time I am thinking "he is smarter than this, why cant he figure this one out". I mean in most of your other posts you sound smart.
I shoulda figured you were screwing with us.
hahah
Really? The whole time I was thinking "Same old same old for NSXNEXT"
edit: Meaty Beety Big & Bouncey > wstevens
08-18-2006, 01:22 PM
#125
Go Giants
08-18-2006, 01:32 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by BEETROOT
The plane wouldn't be stationary.
Think of the propulsion of the engines as a rope pulling the plane forward. It makes no difference how the wheels are spinning underneath. The plane wouldn't sit there still and then all of a sudden take off. It would move forward in pretty much the same way it would on a solid runway, just the tires would be spinning faster.
btw you can google to find the answer...
How does the plane move forward via the wheels if the conveyor belt is moving in the opposite direction?
08-18-2006, 01:32 PM
#129
You want me to break it?
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I haven't read page 4-5 yet. Planes need air movement over their wings to generate lift - air moves faster over the upper surface than it does over the lower one so the plane gets sucked up (or pushed up from the bottome) into the air by its wings was my understanding.
If you have a perfect treadmill that will match the plane's wheel speed exactly, the plane will have no forward motion relative to a stationary reference point. All this arguing about thrust is pointless - thrust is just there to give the plane forward motion and generate air flow over the wings. An icy surface only matters if the "thrust" is generated by the wheels which it isn't in a plane so that doesn't matter either?
Bottom line - without enough airflow over the wings which is dependent on the plane actually moving (which it cannot do on a perfect treadmill) the plane shouldn't go anywhere. It might need some new tires/bearings, but it isn't going up.
The one exception might be if the thrusters were in front of the wings for some ungodly reason and could generate the required airflow without the plane actually moving forward while on the treadmill- then the plane could take off and once it left the treadmill it would shoot off like a rocket I think - might be wrong though.
If you have a perfect treadmill that will match the plane's wheel speed exactly, the plane will have no forward motion relative to a stationary reference point. All this arguing about thrust is pointless - thrust is just there to give the plane forward motion and generate air flow over the wings. An icy surface only matters if the "thrust" is generated by the wheels which it isn't in a plane so that doesn't matter either?
Bottom line - without enough airflow over the wings which is dependent on the plane actually moving (which it cannot do on a perfect treadmill) the plane shouldn't go anywhere. It might need some new tires/bearings, but it isn't going up.
The one exception might be if the thrusters were in front of the wings for some ungodly reason and could generate the required airflow without the plane actually moving forward while on the treadmill- then the plane could take off and once it left the treadmill it would shoot off like a rocket I think - might be wrong though.
08-18-2006, 01:39 PM
#130
Yeehaw
Originally Posted by Nineteen
How does the plane move forward via the wheels if the conveyor belt is moving in the opposite direction?I think if you read the thread you will find most questions like this have been answered... but, the plane doesn't move forward via the wheels. It moves via the thrust of the engines... no connection to the wheels, the ground, or the conveyor belt.
Imagine if the wheels had zero friction, and the conveyor belt was moving 100mph. The wheels would spin, but the plane would not move. Now the plane engages the engines, and it moves forward exactly as it would on solid ground.
08-18-2006, 01:45 PM
#132
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For people still reading this and dont know the answer: the plane takes off completely normal as if the conveyor belt were not even there.
08-18-2006, 01:56 PM
#134
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by BEETROOT
This was fun. Anyone got another one?
A boy is 10 feet from a wall, and throws a ball against the wall. As the ball travels towards the wall, the distance between the ball and the wall is cut in half (the ball is 5 feet from the wall), then that distance is cut in half again (now the ball is 2 1/2 feet from the wall), and so on and so on.....
How many times is the distance cut in half before the ball reaches the wall? EVen when the ball is as close as a fraction of a inch from the wall, that distance must still be cut in half before the ball can reach the wall. And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
08-18-2006, 01:57 PM
#135
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I'm not even going to begin to get involved in this debate.
But I gotta put in my
As much thrust as the plane produced, it could 1000 lbs, 10000, 1,000,000 lbs I don't care, thrust doesn't make a plane fly, lift does. Thrust is used to move the plane on the ground and keep it in motion in air. But the thrust is needed to get the air moving over the wings to produce lift. If the plane is stationary, which it obviously is, their isn't going to be any air going over the wings so no lift is produced. so no takeoff. The conveyor belt doesn't move the air. it counteracts the thrust.
But I gotta put in my
As much thrust as the plane produced, it could 1000 lbs, 10000, 1,000,000 lbs I don't care, thrust doesn't make a plane fly, lift does. Thrust is used to move the plane on the ground and keep it in motion in air. But the thrust is needed to get the air moving over the wings to produce lift. If the plane is stationary, which it obviously is, their isn't going to be any air going over the wings so no lift is produced. so no takeoff. The conveyor belt doesn't move the air. it counteracts the thrust.
08-18-2006, 01:59 PM
#136
Go Giants
Im horny....
08-18-2006, 02:00 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by fdl
Is infinity a real, fixed number? Does it exist? And if so, what is it?
A boy is 10 feet from a wall, and throws a ball against the wall. As the ball travels towards the wall, the distance between the ball and the wall is cut in half (the ball is 5 feet from the wall), then that distance is cut in half again (now the ball is 2 1/2 feet from the wall), and so on and so on.....
How many times is the distance cut in half before the ball reaches the wall? EVen when the ball is as close as a fraction of a inch from the wall, that distance must still be cut in half before the ball can reach the wall. And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
A boy is 10 feet from a wall, and throws a ball against the wall. As the ball travels towards the wall, the distance between the ball and the wall is cut in half (the ball is 5 feet from the wall), then that distance is cut in half again (now the ball is 2 1/2 feet from the wall), and so on and so on.....
How many times is the distance cut in half before the ball reaches the wall? EVen when the ball is as close as a fraction of a inch from the wall, that distance must still be cut in half before the ball can reach the wall. And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
Infiniti is not a true number because it is only defined as the non-existance of a final number.
Interestingly, the second one is infinity. Yes, the ball will hit the wall eventually but mathematically you can keep cutting numbers in half forever.
So what is the real answer?
08-18-2006, 02:00 PM
#138
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by fdl
, it will not take off. As its been mentioned, there will be air flowing over the wings and therefore no lift.
08-18-2006, 02:00 PM
#139
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Originally Posted by fdl
And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
08-18-2006, 02:07 PM
#143
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by RLToni
Warning!! Complete Guess following:
Infiniti is not a true number because it is only defined as the non-existance of a final number.
Interestingly, the second one is infinity. Yes, the ball will hit the wall eventually but mathematically you can keep cutting numbers in half forever.
Infiniti is not a true number because it is only defined as the non-existance of a final number.
Interestingly, the second one is infinity. Yes, the ball will hit the wall eventually but mathematically you can keep cutting numbers in half forever.
08-18-2006, 02:08 PM
#144
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by fdl
Is infinity a real, fixed number? Does it exist? And if so, what is it?
A boy is 10 feet from a wall, and throws a ball against the wall. As the ball travels towards the wall, the distance between the ball and the wall is cut in half (the ball is 5 feet from the wall), then that distance is cut in half again (now the ball is 2 1/2 feet from the wall), and so on and so on.....
How many times is the distance cut in half before the ball reaches the wall? EVen when the ball is as close as a fraction of a inch from the wall, that distance must still be cut in half before the ball can reach the wall. And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
A boy is 10 feet from a wall, and throws a ball against the wall. As the ball travels towards the wall, the distance between the ball and the wall is cut in half (the ball is 5 feet from the wall), then that distance is cut in half again (now the ball is 2 1/2 feet from the wall), and so on and so on.....
How many times is the distance cut in half before the ball reaches the wall? EVen when the ball is as close as a fraction of a inch from the wall, that distance must still be cut in half before the ball can reach the wall. And as we know, the ball does eventually hit the wall. So how many times was the distance cut in half?
08-18-2006, 02:08 PM
#145
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fla-tls
We know that? I don't think the ball will hit the wall. I refer back to the infinity section of your question. That's the number of times you'd have to cut the distance in half.
08-18-2006, 02:10 PM
#147
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
Yes it does. I was wrong too. I thought the same thing as you. But the plane will take off normal. The only difference is that the wheels will be spinning twice as fast as normal.
Its impossible. Unless you can explain to me how lift is acheived. If the plane is not moving through the air, it will not take off.
08-18-2006, 02:11 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by fdl
Yes but since the ball hit the wall, that means that at some point the distance could not be cut in half any longer. I.E. the distance was zero.
1/1=1
1/2=.5
1/3=.3333333
etc.
Never. It keeps getting infinitely closer to 0, but never becomes it. I don't think the ball will ever hit the wall. If it does - I'll be too old to care.
08-18-2006, 02:12 PM
#149
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by fdl
Its impossible. Unless you can explain to me how lift is acheived. If the plane is not moving through the air, it will not take off.
08-18-2006, 02:13 PM
#150
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by fla-tls
That's like asking "When will the result of the function of 1/X be zero?"
1/1=1
1/2=.5
1/3=.3333333
etc.
Never. It keeps getting infinitely closer to 0, but never becomes it. I don't think the ball will ever hit the wall. If it does - I'll be too old to care.
1/1=1
1/2=.5
1/3=.3333333
etc.
Never. It keeps getting infinitely closer to 0, but never becomes it. I don't think the ball will ever hit the wall. If it does - I'll be too old to care.
08-18-2006, 02:13 PM
#151
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fla-tls
That's like asking "When will the result of the function of 1/X be zero?"
1/1=1
1/2=.5
1/3=.3333333
etc.
Never. It keeps getting infinitely closer to 0, but never becomes it. I don't think the ball will ever hit the wall. If it does - I'll be too old to care.
1/1=1
1/2=.5
1/3=.3333333
etc.
Never. It keeps getting infinitely closer to 0, but never becomes it. I don't think the ball will ever hit the wall. If it does - I'll be too old to care.
08-18-2006, 02:13 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by fdl
...Are you saying that if you throw a ball against a wall it wont hit the wall? of course it will
08-18-2006, 02:14 PM
#153
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SwervinCL
Read the last 5 pages. The wheels have nothing to do with forward movement on a plane. The thrust produced from the engines will make the plane move forward reguardless of the speed the ground is moving at.
08-18-2006, 02:16 PM
#157
Nom Nom Nom Nom
Originally Posted by fdl
Ok, well as long as the plane is actually moving forward, then lift can be acheived. I assumed the conveyor was countering its forward motion. Its a trick question
08-18-2006, 02:17 PM
#159
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Originally Posted by fdl
Its impossible. Unless you can explain to me how lift is acheived. If the plane is not moving through the air, it will not take off.Look, the second the engines spool up and the plane slowly creeps forward (which in turn causes the conveyor to move backwards in the opposite direction), its too late! The plane has already started moving forward. The conveyor just reacted instantly to the forward motion. The end result is that the plane accelerates faster and faster forward while the conveyor accelerates (faster and faster)x2 in the opposite direction.
08-18-2006, 02:19 PM
#160
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
The plane IS moving thru the air in a forward direction.
Look, the second the engines spool up and the plane slowly creeps forward (which in turn causes the conveyor to move backwards in the opposite direction), its too late! The plane has already started moving forward. The conveyor just reacted instantly to the forward motion. The end result is that the plane accelerates faster and faster forward while the conveyor accelerates (faster and faster)x2 in the opposite direction.
Look, the second the engines spool up and the plane slowly creeps forward (which in turn causes the conveyor to move backwards in the opposite direction), its too late! The plane has already started moving forward. The conveyor just reacted instantly to the forward motion. The end result is that the plane accelerates faster and faster forward while the conveyor accelerates (faster and faster)x2 in the opposite direction.
As long as the plane is actually moving, I'm with you. So at some point i guess the plane would move forward off the conveyor as well. Assuming the conveyor was not "infininately" long
