Suspensions FWD vs AWD
03-16-2017, 09:25 AM
#1
Suspensions FWD vs AWD
So Koni only lists parts for our FWD version of the TL, I was curious so I looked it up and the FWD does have different springs and shocks than the AWD. I assume the difference is due to the increased weight in the AWD.
Anyone know exactly how much of a difference this will make putting the FWD designed koni shocks in an AWD? I believe according to another thread that they do fit without issue.
Also has anyone else noticed some rear sag on a stock suspension 4g TL?
FWD:
52441-TK4-A02 and 52611-TK4-A02 for rear shocks and springs
51611-TK4-A03 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, R. FR.
51621-TK4-A03 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, L. FR.
51401-TK4-A03 SPRING, FR.
AWD:
52611-TK5-A03 and 52441-TK5-A02 for rear shocks and springs
51401-TK5-A51 SPRING, FR.
51611-TK5-A52 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, R. FR.
51621-TK5-A52 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, L. FR.
Anyone know exactly how much of a difference this will make putting the FWD designed koni shocks in an AWD? I believe according to another thread that they do fit without issue.
Also has anyone else noticed some rear sag on a stock suspension 4g TL?
FWD:
52441-TK4-A02 and 52611-TK4-A02 for rear shocks and springs
51611-TK4-A03 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, R. FR.
51621-TK4-A03 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, L. FR.
51401-TK4-A03 SPRING, FR.
AWD:
52611-TK5-A03 and 52441-TK5-A02 for rear shocks and springs
51401-TK5-A51 SPRING, FR.
51611-TK5-A52 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, R. FR.
51621-TK5-A52 SHOCK ABSORBER UNIT, L. FR.
03-16-2017, 09:53 AM
#2
the koni shocks itself are valved probably for a wide range of applications.
what matters more is the spring.
you could ALWAYS call Koni and ASK directly...."hey, how are your 4G TL shocks valved? what specifications did you valve the shock to?"
most likely, it will be valved to handle a wide range of springs.
and for consumer applications, that is perfectly fine!!! as you are not racing the car and need a specific valving.
I also believe Koni can do custom valving of their shocks to fit a specific spring....sooo you might want to call and ask
what matters more is the spring.
you could ALWAYS call Koni and ASK directly...."hey, how are your 4G TL shocks valved? what specifications did you valve the shock to?"
most likely, it will be valved to handle a wide range of springs.
and for consumer applications, that is perfectly fine!!! as you are not racing the car and need a specific valving.
I also believe Koni can do custom valving of their shocks to fit a specific spring....sooo you might want to call and ask
Last edited by justnspace; 03-16-2017 at 09:57 AM.
03-16-2017, 10:39 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
There is a detailed thread on the Koni shocks on an SH-AWD in this forum. Search.
03-16-2017, 10:47 AM
#4
03-16-2017, 11:15 AM
#5
the koni shocks itself are valved probably for a wide range of applications.
what matters more is the spring.
you could ALWAYS call Koni and ASK directly...."hey, how are your 4G TL shocks valved? what specifications did you valve the shock to?"
most likely, it will be valved to handle a wide range of springs.
and for consumer applications, that is perfectly fine!!! as you are not racing the car and need a specific valving.
I also believe Koni can do custom valving of their shocks to fit a specific spring....sooo you might want to call and ask
what matters more is the spring.
you could ALWAYS call Koni and ASK directly...."hey, how are your 4G TL shocks valved? what specifications did you valve the shock to?"
most likely, it will be valved to handle a wide range of springs.
and for consumer applications, that is perfectly fine!!! as you are not racing the car and need a specific valving.
I also believe Koni can do custom valving of their shocks to fit a specific spring....sooo you might want to call and ask
I did email Koni, hopefully they respond shortly and Ill post what I find out.
03-16-2017, 11:28 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
My understanding is that the shocks and springs have the same over all dimensions and are interchangeable between AWD & FWD.
The only difference I'm aware of is the AWD front shocks have metal bushings at the top shaft mount and on the FWD they are an elastomer (aka rubber)
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joemcfarnham (03-16-2017)
03-16-2017, 11:37 AM
#7
for a general consumer product....you build for a wide range of applications
I believe, if you contact them, you can get custom valving to cater towards a specific spring. but you would need to know the spring rates. because everything works in tandem.
as spring rates dictate shock valving
so, if you're building a race car, it would be imperative to know these numbers...but as a general consumer product, regular joe doesnt care and just wants it to work right out of the box
also, I believe MORE people buy FWD than AWD...so, it wouldnt make sense $$ wise to spend in R&D for the AWD if no one buys it...
this is what Koni does. they have been in business for A LONG TIME. they know their market.
Last edited by justnspace; 03-16-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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03-16-2017, 11:41 AM
#8
If that's the only difference then why is there different shock unit and spring part numbers, not the entire assembly which also has different numbers, but the individual parts themselves have different numbers.
And he states they fit and ride nicely, but I want to know why the difference, what impact will it have. ie the suspension being designed for the fwd vs awd is for 250 lbs less. would that effectively reduce the recommended max weight inside the vehicle by 250 lbs if you were to put a FWD setup on a AWD car?
And he states they fit and ride nicely, but I want to know why the difference, what impact will it have. ie the suspension being designed for the fwd vs awd is for 250 lbs less. would that effectively reduce the recommended max weight inside the vehicle by 250 lbs if you were to put a FWD setup on a AWD car?
03-16-2017, 11:55 AM
#9
If that's the only difference then why is there different shock unit and spring part numbers, not the entire assembly which also has different numbers, but the individual parts themselves have different numbers.
And he states they fit and ride nicely, but I want to know why the difference, what impact will it have. ie the suspension being designed for the fwd vs awd is for 250 lbs less. would that effectively reduce the recommended max weight inside the vehicle by 250 lbs if you were to put a FWD setup on a AWD car?
And he states they fit and ride nicely, but I want to know why the difference, what impact will it have. ie the suspension being designed for the fwd vs awd is for 250 lbs less. would that effectively reduce the recommended max weight inside the vehicle by 250 lbs if you were to put a FWD setup on a AWD car?
you compensate weight with stiffer springs and shock valving
thus why after market companies build a margin, or a WIDE range of applications
03-16-2017, 12:16 PM
#10
Any thoughts why these shock companies are so specific that their products are only for fwd? if it wasn't a big deal why wouldn't they market it for both? I just wanna make 100% sure there wont be any issues before I drop that kinda cash, Ill wait for them to get back to me also.
Side note, unlike most I want my ride height in the rear to sit a little higher if I have a full truck and 2 200lb adults in the back I don't want horrible sag, currently the car sits higher in the front than rear even when empty.
The springs are fine, no damage cracks or bends. The shocks with 95k on them def have some wear, but aren't worn out. In previous cars a new set of kyb shocks or struts, or srt.t struts would raise the car slightly from worn factory parts.
My rear tires sit with 1 finger clearance when empty with stock suspension.
Side note, unlike most I want my ride height in the rear to sit a little higher if I have a full truck and 2 200lb adults in the back I don't want horrible sag, currently the car sits higher in the front than rear even when empty.
The springs are fine, no damage cracks or bends. The shocks with 95k on them def have some wear, but aren't worn out. In previous cars a new set of kyb shocks or struts, or srt.t struts would raise the car slightly from worn factory parts.
My rear tires sit with 1 finger clearance when empty with stock suspension.
03-16-2017, 12:20 PM
#11
R&D cost.
it's cheaper to bring in one car and then build a wide margin.
again, you can have Koni revalve to your specific specifications if you want
this is what they do. they have been doing it for a long time. Call and ask.
I know some of it is marketing speak...but it says it right there....koni is small enough to interact with its customers...
that means you need to call with YOUR questions and concerns
it's cheaper to bring in one car and then build a wide margin.
again, you can have Koni revalve to your specific specifications if you want
this is what they do. they have been doing it for a long time. Call and ask.
KONI has been in business for 150 years, involved in automobile dampers since 1932 and has produced adjustable telescopic dampers since 1945. In addition, though known best for cars, KONI also builds shocks for trucks, buses, RVs and railway rolling stock as well. What this adds up to is well-earned design and manufacturing experience.
As the maker of the industry's very first adjustable shock absorber, electronic drag racing shocks and today's patented FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) street shocks, KONI has long demonstrated that product improvement means product innovation.
As a niche maker of high-performance shocks, KONI is small enough to interact with its customers on a regular basis, even having a Tech Line staffed every working day with KONI technicians, many of whom are car enthusiasts just like you. What this means is that you receive the personal attention missing in most product businesses today.
Welcome to the KONI shock family!
As the maker of the industry's very first adjustable shock absorber, electronic drag racing shocks and today's patented FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) street shocks, KONI has long demonstrated that product improvement means product innovation.
As a niche maker of high-performance shocks, KONI is small enough to interact with its customers on a regular basis, even having a Tech Line staffed every working day with KONI technicians, many of whom are car enthusiasts just like you. What this means is that you receive the personal attention missing in most product businesses today.
Welcome to the KONI shock family!
that means you need to call with YOUR questions and concerns
Last edited by justnspace; 03-16-2017 at 12:24 PM.
03-16-2017, 01:28 PM
#12
"I have heard and seen instances on the forums of a few people have installed the shocks on the AWD models with success. Though we have never done ride testing to confirm proper valving for the heavier springs that AWD models tend to use. Thus we only list the applications for the confirmed fitment of the FWD models. "
- Koni rep
- Koni rep
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justnspace (03-16-2017)
03-20-2017, 01:57 PM
#14
More information for others, Koni does not custom valve or rebuild the FSD struts/shocks, only the yellows for our cars. Rough cost for the yellows is 150 per shock for custom valve.
Also the TL FSD kit is also shared by the TSX which is 500lbs lighter than the TL AWD, fairly significant and something to consider for sure.
That all being said I am installing the FSD setup this weekend, will post how it feels later. I ran the Srt.t on my CSX type S and was quite impressed.
Also the TL FSD kit is also shared by the TSX which is 500lbs lighter than the TL AWD, fairly significant and something to consider for sure.
That all being said I am installing the FSD setup this weekend, will post how it feels later. I ran the Srt.t on my CSX type S and was quite impressed.
03-20-2017, 02:27 PM
#15
Further to last, I just learned through cross referencing parts that the Manual trans has different suspension than the automatic aswell...
In theory the front springs in an auto might be stiffer than the manual due to the additional weight... Does anyone know more specific information regarding this?
In theory the front springs in an auto might be stiffer than the manual due to the additional weight... Does anyone know more specific information regarding this?
03-21-2017, 12:40 AM
#16
The TL SH-AWD® 6MT has unique dual-stage hydraulic “blow-off” suspension dampers that receive fine tuning for use with the 6MT model based on its lighter weight and more aggressive handling capabilities. The front dampers for the manual transmission equipped TL incorporate 5-percent more tension damping during low piston speeds to generate improved turn-in feel. In addition, the front dampers generate 14-percent less high speed compression damping which helps improve ride quality.
Interesting info.......... well see what kind of change the fsd makes
Interesting info.......... well see what kind of change the fsd makes
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SoL_TeK (05-23-2017)
05-23-2017, 12:51 PM
#17
The TL SH-AWD® 6MT has unique dual-stage hydraulic “blow-off” suspension dampers that receive fine tuning for use with the 6MT model based on its lighter weight and more aggressive handling capabilities. The front dampers for the manual transmission equipped TL incorporate 5-percent more tension damping during low piston speeds to generate improved turn-in feel. In addition, the front dampers generate 14-percent less high speed compression damping which helps improve ride quality.
Interesting info.......... well see what kind of change the fsd makes
Interesting info.......... well see what kind of change the fsd makes
