supercharger options
03-14-2017, 10:39 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
supercharger options
Has anyone other than CT Engineering tried to adapt the 3G supercharger available to the 4G 3.7? What would be involved and what are the limitations? My understanding is that this was in development before KTuner was an option so what are the limiting factors (under-hood clearance, clutch, sh-awd, cooling)? Also the 3G supercharger was not optimal for that displacement engine so even less so on the 4G but a conservative and reliable amount of boost would still be nice especially if a supercharger could be found used and modified accordingly.
Has anyone pieced together a turbo for the 4G and tuned it reliably?
On another note does anyone foresee aftermarket cams being available like those from Bisimoto?
Has anyone pieced together a turbo for the 4G and tuned it reliably?
On another note does anyone foresee aftermarket cams being available like those from Bisimoto?
The following users liked this post:
Rancher2005 (03-14-2017)
03-14-2017, 11:32 AM
#3
and either route you go...super or turbo...you will be the guinea pig
over on the 3G side, we're spending about $10k to get boosted.
and that's with ebay turbos
and basically being the guinea pigs, as each car will be different and will need a different tune.,....because of different turbo fabricators....there's lots of ways to mount the turbo....and each turbo fabricator has his own idea of what to do...
that means you will need to talk to shops and turbo fabricators.
over on the 3G side, we're spending about $10k to get boosted.
and that's with ebay turbos
and basically being the guinea pigs, as each car will be different and will need a different tune.,....because of different turbo fabricators....there's lots of ways to mount the turbo....and each turbo fabricator has his own idea of what to do...
that means you will need to talk to shops and turbo fabricators.
03-14-2017, 11:43 AM
#4
Team Owner
Not a lot of Turbo guys around in 3G land. I'd venture a guess there are even less in 4G land. The 3Gers that have done it, have spent some serious money doing so- those who cheaped out, blew their cars up and never looked back. Then their were others who suffered similar fates, but decided to work through them and kept learning and kept spending money. Definitely not cheap, by any stretch of the imagination.
There are a bit more SC'd guys, verse turbo guys, but as mentioned, the CT kit is limiting. It gives a nice bump in power, but at the same time, isn't at all that cheap to do so, even if you find a used kit. Better, but still pricey. It can be done. But you have to have a good budget in mind, and I'd say at least 3k in an emergency fund. Because something will go sideways eventually. Ultimately, with custom work, you sacrifice reliability, even if you throw lots of money at it.
There are a bit more SC'd guys, verse turbo guys, but as mentioned, the CT kit is limiting. It gives a nice bump in power, but at the same time, isn't at all that cheap to do so, even if you find a used kit. Better, but still pricey. It can be done. But you have to have a good budget in mind, and I'd say at least 3k in an emergency fund. Because something will go sideways eventually. Ultimately, with custom work, you sacrifice reliability, even if you throw lots of money at it.
The following 2 users liked this post by TacoBello:
HeartTLs (03-16-2017),
justnspace (03-14-2017)
03-14-2017, 11:49 AM
#5
Moderator
there was a guy that was selling voltex sc kit but he never proved that it worked.. he just got pics of him putting a intercooler on.. but you do lose AC so that is a big negative for me.
The following users liked this post:
justnspace (03-14-2017)
03-14-2017, 01:07 PM
#8
Has anyone other than CT Engineering tried to adapt the 3G supercharger available to the 4G 3.7? What would be involved and what are the limitations? My understanding is that this was in development before KTuner was an option so what are the limiting factors (under-hood clearance, clutch, sh-awd, cooling)? Also the 3G supercharger was not optimal for that displacement engine so even less so on the 4G but a conservative and reliable amount of boost would still be nice especially if a supercharger could be found used and modified accordingly.
Has anyone pieced together a turbo for the 4G and tuned it reliably?
On another note does anyone foresee aftermarket cams being available like those from Bisimoto?
Has anyone pieced together a turbo for the 4G and tuned it reliably?
On another note does anyone foresee aftermarket cams being available like those from Bisimoto?
03-16-2017, 01:34 PM
#10
The following users liked this post:
Rancher2005 (03-16-2017)
03-20-2017, 09:51 AM
#11
Safety Car
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose, CA/ Charleston, WV
Posts: 4,045
Received 619 Likes
on
459 Posts
with the s/c and turbo you must have side money for an extra block to build. The rings lands on the 3rd gen and 7th gen accord will eventually butt ends and crack or the pistons goes bye bye
so that's where all the extra cost comes from. Pistons, Rods, machining, upgrade valve springs, etc etc
so that's where all the extra cost comes from. Pistons, Rods, machining, upgrade valve springs, etc etc
The following users liked this post:
carbonTSEX (06-03-2017)
06-04-2017, 03:12 PM
#17
06-04-2017, 04:00 PM
#18
Other J Series? You mean the J35A8? The made them around the DBW J Series motors and developed a cam spacer to allow them to be used on older cable J series. Their main focus is on the J35/J37 engines.
06-05-2017, 03:59 PM
#19
The newer J35A, J35Y, J35Z I sure will get the love. From what I have been told by a few companies "have not spoken to the one your referred to" the J37 cam style is different. Now if this company can make one and it does not have to be "regrind" I'll be first in line.
07-14-2017, 09:51 AM
#21
Drifting
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Age: 42
Posts: 3,490
Received 849 Likes
on
605 Posts
Each to their own obviously, but I really don't think the FWD TL (3rd or 4th Gen) is a good platform for FI. First, it's FWD. That's a kicker right off the bat. There are FWD vehicles with FI but they're usually smaller engines that produce <300HP (at the most). Second, as was stated, the engine was not designed for FI meaning serious engine work. IMO, the AWD TL 6MT might be a good fit for FI but if I wanted a "race car" I'd get an S2K or something like that. The TL is a luxury sedan, a glorified grocery getter. It has to be modified considerably to be really sporty, even with bolt-ons. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't invest that much to make it faster. I'd keep it as a car with a good combination of power, comfort, tech and handling. But I'd get something else if I wanted a really high performance vehicle. Something BUILT to be kick-ass from the factory. M-series BMW, AMG Merc, S-series Audi, F-Sport Lexus, CTS-V, etc. etc. to name a few REALLY kick-ass sedans. Then I'd add to it since those vehicles are built for serious business. Ours isn't.
But again, the discussion is valid and fun. I'm not dissing it. But it's the equivalent of trying to redesign a nice two-story family home into a 7000 sq. ft. luxury McMansion. Just buy the McMansion to begin with.
But again, the discussion is valid and fun. I'm not dissing it. But it's the equivalent of trying to redesign a nice two-story family home into a 7000 sq. ft. luxury McMansion. Just buy the McMansion to begin with.
07-14-2017, 09:59 AM
#22
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Age: 68
Posts: 7,844
Received 2,005 Likes
on
1,407 Posts
Each to their own obviously, but I really don't think the FWD TL (3rd or 4th Gen) is a good platform for FI. First, it's FWD. That's a kicker right off the bat. There are FWD vehicles with FI but they're usually smaller engines that produce <300HP (at the most). Second, as was stated, the engine was not designed for FI meaning serious engine work. IMO, the AWD TL 6MT might be a good fit for FI but if I wanted a "race car" I'd get an S2K or something like that. The TL is a luxury sedan, a glorified grocery getter. It has to be modified considerably to be really sporty, even with bolt-ons. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't invest that much to make it faster. I'd keep it as a car with a good combination of power, comfort, tech and handling. But I'd get something else if I wanted a really high performance vehicle. Something BUILT to be kick-ass from the factory. M-series BMW, AMG Merc, S-series Audi, F-Sport Lexus, CTS-V, etc. etc. to name a few REALLY kick-ass sedans. Then I'd add to it since those vehicles are built for serious business. Ours isn't.
But again, the discussion is valid and fun. I'm not dissing it. But it's the equivalent of trying to redesign a nice two-story family home into a 7000 sq. ft. luxury McMansion. Just buy the McMansion to begin with.
But again, the discussion is valid and fun. I'm not dissing it. But it's the equivalent of trying to redesign a nice two-story family home into a 7000 sq. ft. luxury McMansion. Just buy the McMansion to begin with.
If I wanted a fast and fun project car, it sure as hell wouldn't be my TL; something more along the lines of a Flyin' Miata turbo application in a NA or NB Miata.
07-28-2017, 02:12 PM
#23
I am coming over from v8 mustang land.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
The following users liked this post:
HeartTLs (07-30-2017)
07-28-2017, 04:33 PM
#24
I am coming over from v8 mustang land.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
The kit I have on my S2000 which is an off-the-shelf kit that's direct bolt on with nothing custom is over $8k and that's without being tuned (another $400). It's also not taking into consideration and additional drivetrain upgrades to support additional power.
07-28-2017, 05:01 PM
#25
I can type up all sorts of fancy forced induction stuff too. You're not going to do it and you're not doing it for $4-7k...
The kit I have on my S2000 which is an off-the-shelf kit that's direct bolt on with nothing custom is over $8k and that's without being tuned (another $400). It's also not taking into consideration and additional drive train upgrades to support additional power.
The kit I have on my S2000 which is an off-the-shelf kit that's direct bolt on with nothing custom is over $8k and that's without being tuned (another $400). It's also not taking into consideration and additional drive train upgrades to support additional power.
Again my price point I was off by 1k so for 5-8k
(my Proof of concept)
Mustangs: https://www.americanmuscle.com/2015-....html#shop-by0
Camaros: Edelbrock E-Force Camaro SS Supercharger Kit | JEGS
07-28-2017, 06:11 PM
#26
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Age: 68
Posts: 7,844
Received 2,005 Likes
on
1,407 Posts
I am coming over from v8 mustang land.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
To me toss on a water cooled root style blower to replace the intake manifold. Sell an aftermarket hood to resolve clearance issues. Intake stays the same and you keep your AC. Start at 6PSI and KTuner should do the rest. Easy safe 75HP and probably best HP to $ ratio.
I always kicked myself after doing every bolt-on first and costing more that the supercharger kit back in the day.
As far a pricing goes. 4-7k for the kit. You would gain more power from 1 modification than all bolt-on's put together. This design would be a bolt on for all TL's, Accords v6's. I think there would be a big enough market to mass produce this. The biggest thing that was missing was a tuning system which is no longer a problem.
07-29-2017, 12:54 AM
#27
I put it like this... When I first got my TL some of what y'all saying was pretty common place.. But there is a select few of us who decided to bite the bullet one the NA form and we are very very please with the results. Now the Honda accord guys is the closes to the FWD TL.. so me sending this post shows if you want it and open minded anything is possible. There NA V6 accords walking R/T, SRT Jeeps and Tuned G37.. The TL has the better internals compare to the accord.
CRANKSHAFT/CONNECTING RODS/PISTONS
The 3.5-liter engine of the TL and the 3.7-liter engine of the TL SH-AWD® both employ robust forged-steel crankshafts for high strength and minimum weight. On both engines, forged aluminum pistons are cooled with oil spray directed up to the underside of the piston crowns, making possible the high 11.2:1 compression ratio. The connecting rods are steel forgings for high strength, and are "crack separated"— a unique process in which the bearing caps are broken away from the rod rather than machined separately. This process forms a lighter, stronger connecting rod with perfect mating surfaces.
If this ain't one of the best form for a FI set up coming from the factory especially from a Honda ain't know what else would be.
The following users liked this post:
losiglow (07-31-2017)
07-29-2017, 10:27 AM
#28
I was kindly stating that a "MASS PRODUCED PRODUCT" could be in the range like everything is for Mustangs and Camaro's. And a mild 6PSI and 75hp should not require any drive train upgrades or engine reinforcement. Considering that's about what you get from all bolt on's with out upgrading your drive-train. Most of these kits include a tuning system and a pre-loaded tune designed for the application.
Again my price point I was off by 1k so for 5-8k
(my Proof of concept)
Mustangs: https://www.americanmuscle.com/2015-....html#shop-by0
Camaros: Edelbrock E-Force Camaro SS Supercharger Kit JEGS
Again my price point I was off by 1k so for 5-8k
(my Proof of concept)
Mustangs: https://www.americanmuscle.com/2015-....html#shop-by0
Camaros: Edelbrock E-Force Camaro SS Supercharger Kit JEGS
Forced induction or a built N/A motor is the only way you're going to get that. You're lucky to gain 30hp with a full set of bolts ons.
07-29-2017, 03:04 PM
#29
Fully Bolt on K series will get you on ave 30+ WHP with just intake/headers/exhaust and a sweet tune. And if you add Cams most will to well over 35+ with the RBC intake manifold. The J series ave seems to be between 20-25whp... But certainly seems and performs way more than that.. If your looking for that extra power like that $ talk you can always have a shop custom build one... or build your own like Gerzard...
The following users liked this post:
HeartTLs (07-30-2017)
07-31-2017, 09:51 AM
#30
Drifting
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Age: 42
Posts: 3,490
Received 849 Likes
on
605 Posts
That Accord is something else. Very impressive numbers. 
If I were him, I'd keep the exterior stock and make it a wicked sleeper 
Hats off to the custom work and ingenuity. I feel like drivetrain is going to be the limiting factor at that point. That kind of power limited to the front wheels......
If I were him, I'd keep the exterior stock and make it a wicked sleeper Hats off to the custom work and ingenuity. I feel like drivetrain is going to be the limiting factor at that point. That kind of power limited to the front wheels......
