Not satisfied with ELS system. Upgrade speakers? AMP upgrade?
01-28-2017, 02:48 AM
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Not satisfied with ELS system. Upgrade speakers? AMP upgrade?
So I have a 2013 TL tech package and its ELS sound system is not satisfying my expectations. Before I got this car I had a 2004 BMW e46 with Harman/Kardon system and it kicks the Acura's ELS ass. The Harman/Kardon sound quality is soooo much better and way more powerful mids and highs it was perfect.. ELS system is way too quiet and mids and high isnt really there. Is there any way i can upgrade its amplifier/speakers? Any kind of write up to do that such thing?
06-28-2018, 06:58 PM
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Check out my latest post regarding my ELS amp upgrade. https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-v.../#post16256617
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echodigital (06-29-2018)
07-01-2018, 09:59 PM
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Check out my latest post regarding my ELS amp upgrade. https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-v.../#post16256617
07-02-2018, 07:58 AM
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As I said, I will not go into details regarding cost. Labor depends on how much you do yourself and who does what you don't; it can be all free if you do it all yourself or thousands if you do a complete custom system overall with sound processors, power capacitors, additional amps and hi-fi pro grade wiring; you are not going to do exactly the same thing as me, so knowing my cost won't help you. I'm also in Canada (so cost might not even translate) and did the easy stuff myself and had my professional car audio place do the rest. If you just do the amp upgrade, labor is $0, you can easily do it yourself (amp is accessible, located under the carpet protectors on the right side of the trunk; two connectors to disconnect and three bolts to loosen).
Parts cost depends so much on what speakers you choose to go with. I initially wanted to go with Infinity Kappa Perfect or their mid-range solution because they are very good quality and work well with the lower RMS wattage offered by stock amps (even upgraded, it's still significantly lower than what aftermarket amps push out). Remember, wattage is just a physical power measurement, it has little to do with your audio quality all things considered. I went with Jesse's recommendation of Audible Physics for the front doors and the center, they are custom-built for stock systems (optimized for lower-wattage) and decently priced. You get what you pay for, but finding the right car audio professional who doesn't markup his parts unreasonably will go a long way to keep your costs down! As far as the amp upgrade with Phantom Audio, mine was a custom build as there is no off-the-shelf tuning offer for 4G TLs. But check out https://www.endlessrpm.com/tuned-els...phantom-audio/, you will get a very good idea of how much you'd be looking at. And if you are in the US, your shipping should be very low too. Or better yet, contact Phantom Audio directly, via FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/Phantom-Audio-547443948795082/).
If you will upgrade only one thing in your TL's audio system and you are on a budget, this Amp upgrade is by VERY far the best solution, hands down. If you have a few more bucks to spare, I'd say go for the stock tweeters upgrade too (cheap addition). Then in decreasing order of return on investment:
Parts cost depends so much on what speakers you choose to go with. I initially wanted to go with Infinity Kappa Perfect or their mid-range solution because they are very good quality and work well with the lower RMS wattage offered by stock amps (even upgraded, it's still significantly lower than what aftermarket amps push out). Remember, wattage is just a physical power measurement, it has little to do with your audio quality all things considered. I went with Jesse's recommendation of Audible Physics for the front doors and the center, they are custom-built for stock systems (optimized for lower-wattage) and decently priced. You get what you pay for, but finding the right car audio professional who doesn't markup his parts unreasonably will go a long way to keep your costs down! As far as the amp upgrade with Phantom Audio, mine was a custom build as there is no off-the-shelf tuning offer for 4G TLs. But check out https://www.endlessrpm.com/tuned-els...phantom-audio/, you will get a very good idea of how much you'd be looking at. And if you are in the US, your shipping should be very low too. Or better yet, contact Phantom Audio directly, via FaceBook (https://www.facebook.com/Phantom-Audio-547443948795082/).
If you will upgrade only one thing in your TL's audio system and you are on a budget, this Amp upgrade is by VERY far the best solution, hands down. If you have a few more bucks to spare, I'd say go for the stock tweeters upgrade too (cheap addition). Then in decreasing order of return on investment:
- Go for dynamat (Extreme ideally) or any other distortion/noise reducing product for your front doors and rear deck
- Then upgrade the front door speakers
- Then the center and get higher end tweeters
- Then subwoofer, add a mono sub amp to the setup if you can
- Then rear door speakers
- Then rear deck speakers
- Then add a sound processing aftermarket multi-channel amp (or separate amp and sound processors) if you still want more power (but now you're talking big bucks)
07-30-2018, 02:18 AM
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Check out my latest post regarding my ELS amp upgrade. https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-v.../#post16256617
07-30-2018, 09:01 AM
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For me, it was a custom job (first one he did of my TL gen). I also ordered some Audible Physics speakers that had to be custom ordered and custom fit to OEM TL brackets he obtained for me. He had to source some capacitors. I am in Canada and I wanted to wait to get all component in a single shipment to save on shipping; your experience would be completely different than mine. The actual amp upgrade process takes a few business days with components in stock, experiences will undoubtedly vary; shipping speed to and from will of course impact the total turn around time.
Right now, the 4G TL amp upgrade is featured as an off-the-shelf type upgrade, so I figure he has all parts in stock or perhaps even re-tuned refurbished factory amps ready to go for an immediate swap (he sends you the amp, you send back yours for a discount). https://www.heeltoeauto.com/phantom_audio/?catid=2430. That would mean absolutely no down time, just a delay before you get a discount as a refund (until he gets yours back).
Right now, the 4G TL amp upgrade is featured as an off-the-shelf type upgrade, so I figure he has all parts in stock or perhaps even re-tuned refurbished factory amps ready to go for an immediate swap (he sends you the amp, you send back yours for a discount). https://www.heeltoeauto.com/phantom_audio/?catid=2430. That would mean absolutely no down time, just a delay before you get a discount as a refund (until he gets yours back).
07-30-2018, 06:06 PM
#7
Thanks so much for all the info. I have another question you may or may not be able to answer. After the upgrade, would you say the difference in sound quality would be noticeable to the average person or would you need to be an audiophile with a finely tuned ear to notice it?
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07-30-2018, 06:59 PM
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That is a great question. My apologies if I seize this opportunity to provide a perhaps longer response than you asked for... The average user cannot really, at least consciously and immediately, distinguish between different audio quality, be it source, medium or sound system. This is why the most popular sound systems are far from being the best sounding (within a specified price range of course). If the volume is sufficient, the stereo scene is obvious and there is no significant feedback/distortion, most people will think something sounds great.
Now if your question is would the average car audio enthusiast (who would invest in a better sounding system without knowing all that much about sound) notice, then it's a definite yes. The sound is much richer, even with the stock speakers (which are actually not that bad considering what other stock systems have). The volume/gain boost is more obvious at higher volumes (pumping above 20 will yield immediate results, instead of hitting a wall and requiring increments of 10), the bass is more solid (especially if you crank up the subwoofer channel in the audio setup, which I recommend you do after this upgrade because of the stock bass attenuation present in the ELS equalizer) and the highs no longer fade out in the background at high volume (I highly recommend you get the tweeters upgraded as well, which might be offered with the 4G amp tuneup, but you might have to send yours unless they found some stock 4G tweeters they can sell you).
Your average Joe, who doesn't know your ELS sound system, will not notice, because the basic system is already more than he is used to. But someone who has heard the basic system before and enjoys listening to music in their car (rather than just having the radio in the background to prevent their minds from going to dark places in the silence) will definitely notice. Provided enough time, someone who has not heard the basic system previously will most definitely appreciate the upgrade too (they'll just never know why as they have no baseline).
Another thing you will notice is that distinguishing a poor source (128 kbps mp3) from a good one (256 kbps aac or a better one, lossless like CD, ALAC/FLAC and AIFF/WAV) will no longer require an audiophile's fine-tuned ear with the upgrade. Most enthusiasts will immediately notice the difference and would score well on blind tests.
Remember it will take you some time to really (or at least fully) appreciate the upgrade. Our brains get used to audio sources that we listen to often. It's both a curse and a blessing. The longer you have been listening to the stock system, the longer it will take to appreciate the upgrade as your brain gets re-tuned to the new sound (unless you are an audio pro and your brain is used to adjusting continuously, such as a true audio critic/reviewer, which I am sad to say I most definitely am not). I normally refer to this as a new system's break-in period, it makes more sense to people (and I may even have used this reference in some previous posts about this upgrade). But really there is no such thing with an amplifier. It's really your appreciation that changes, not your new components. But your appreciation will most definitely grow; for most people it takes anywhere between 10 and 40 hours of listening over a reasonable period of time in my experience, but that is VERY subjective and I'm sure there are tons of opinions about this out there (some of which even valid). That also makes it that much harder to immediately impress people... That game would require a different type of upgrade (basically just a massive amount of power; any schmuck will immediately notice 1000W of sound waves rushing at him or her).
Hope this helps!
Now if your question is would the average car audio enthusiast (who would invest in a better sounding system without knowing all that much about sound) notice, then it's a definite yes. The sound is much richer, even with the stock speakers (which are actually not that bad considering what other stock systems have). The volume/gain boost is more obvious at higher volumes (pumping above 20 will yield immediate results, instead of hitting a wall and requiring increments of 10), the bass is more solid (especially if you crank up the subwoofer channel in the audio setup, which I recommend you do after this upgrade because of the stock bass attenuation present in the ELS equalizer) and the highs no longer fade out in the background at high volume (I highly recommend you get the tweeters upgraded as well, which might be offered with the 4G amp tuneup, but you might have to send yours unless they found some stock 4G tweeters they can sell you).
Your average Joe, who doesn't know your ELS sound system, will not notice, because the basic system is already more than he is used to. But someone who has heard the basic system before and enjoys listening to music in their car (rather than just having the radio in the background to prevent their minds from going to dark places in the silence) will definitely notice. Provided enough time, someone who has not heard the basic system previously will most definitely appreciate the upgrade too (they'll just never know why as they have no baseline).
Another thing you will notice is that distinguishing a poor source (128 kbps mp3) from a good one (256 kbps aac or a better one, lossless like CD, ALAC/FLAC and AIFF/WAV) will no longer require an audiophile's fine-tuned ear with the upgrade. Most enthusiasts will immediately notice the difference and would score well on blind tests.
Remember it will take you some time to really (or at least fully) appreciate the upgrade. Our brains get used to audio sources that we listen to often. It's both a curse and a blessing. The longer you have been listening to the stock system, the longer it will take to appreciate the upgrade as your brain gets re-tuned to the new sound (unless you are an audio pro and your brain is used to adjusting continuously, such as a true audio critic/reviewer, which I am sad to say I most definitely am not). I normally refer to this as a new system's break-in period, it makes more sense to people (and I may even have used this reference in some previous posts about this upgrade). But really there is no such thing with an amplifier. It's really your appreciation that changes, not your new components. But your appreciation will most definitely grow; for most people it takes anywhere between 10 and 40 hours of listening over a reasonable period of time in my experience, but that is VERY subjective and I'm sure there are tons of opinions about this out there (some of which even valid). That also makes it that much harder to immediately impress people... That game would require a different type of upgrade (basically just a massive amount of power; any schmuck will immediately notice 1000W of sound waves rushing at him or her).
Hope this helps!
08-13-2018, 02:45 AM
#9
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lordkythe Damn thanx for the info. Whatever Jesse does it really adds more punch to the bass and clarity. I had him do a custom one so I going to see what multi upgrade sounds like. I have Focals and Audible Physics speakers. I am going to slowly test the drain on the amp on each upgrade.
Last edited by Anicra; 08-13-2018 at 02:49 AM.
08-13-2018, 08:35 PM
#11
Racer
So I purchased the upgraded amp for my 2012 with ELS. Should be here next week (hopefully) they ran out of the caps and capacitors. I am curious how it will sound.
10-01-2018, 09:34 PM
#13
Racer
So it took awhile to get but finally got my upgraded amp from Phantom. Does you pop/crackle for split second when you change source? Also when you change source does your volume goes down for a second or two before going back up again? I am getting both artifacts not to thrilled about it. Once I change a source there is a pop/crackle and volume goes down for about a second or two then back up to normal volume. Then it is OK until I change a source again. A bit of a bummer for all the money that it cost.
10-02-2018, 01:31 PM
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Crackling
I cannot say that I experienced abnormal crackling or volume delays when I received my upgraded amp, I would definitely flag it to Phantom Audio, their after sales service is amazing as they really stand behind their work.
It’s always frustrating to wait, but you have to keep in mind that this is a delicate electronic upgrade and things can go wrong (Phantom Audio doesn’t have control over manufacturer defects of the components they use beyond initial testing or if shipping causes accidental damage, for instance). I myself had an issue with my upgraded amp since and I was taken care of right away. I can’t say the same from the MB Quart amp I had issues with a few years ago!
It’s always frustrating to wait, but you have to keep in mind that this is a delicate electronic upgrade and things can go wrong (Phantom Audio doesn’t have control over manufacturer defects of the components they use beyond initial testing or if shipping causes accidental damage, for instance). I myself had an issue with my upgraded amp since and I was taken care of right away. I can’t say the same from the MB Quart amp I had issues with a few years ago!
10-02-2018, 02:28 PM
#15
So it took awhile to get but finally got my upgraded amp from Phantom. Does you pop/crackle for split second when you change source? Also when you change source does your volume goes down for a second or two before going back up again? I am getting both artifacts not to thrilled about it. Once I change a source there is a pop/crackle and volume goes down for about a second or two then back up to normal volume. Then it is OK until I change a source again. A bit of a bummer for all the money that it cost.
Jesse
