ATLS_666

Do you track your car?

4drviper

nope... i just like to go around highway ramps as fast as my all season tires can handle.

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

I am by no means starting an argument.

But for most people (I know I was one of them) they will have to cut their cam bolt out of the factory rear toe aligment.
Either to install an ingalls toe kit or to install a new bolt/nut to even rotate it to adjust factory toe spec when changing just camber.

Like I say you may have already gone through that or you may not have had that problem. But I know many others including myself that had to purchase new bolts and cam nuts just install the ingalls kit.

I am going today to have my alignment checked because I had everything dead on couple months ago and now one of my tires is almost completely shot due to excessive inner wear. This is only on 1 tire.

I had all toe at 0 front camber at -1 and rear camber at -1.4 which all were within spec.

4drviper

I had the same issue too. I was almost tempted to cut it off but for the lack of any cutting tool, and being 100% southern car, I spent 2 hours under the car with PB blaster and ball joint puller fork. hitch ball mount helped banging it out enough for the fork to grab the head and pry it off the car. it didn't come out at once. I had to stop several times and spray PB and wait and repeat.

If the cam bolt rusts up that much to prevent proper toe adjustment, then yes ingalls had a good concept in mind by adding adjustable arm, but their bushing is just fail.
it turns a TL into a crown vic taxi rear end feel.

--------------------------------
If your car is OEM height, your front is out of camber.
but i do want more (-) camber in the front lol.. and agree your front -1 camber is good choice.

specified range in the service manual is 0 front -1 rear with a window of +- 30' which is 0.5 degrees.
service manual? you mean manufacturer opinion?
that's why I set my front to -0.5 and rear to -0.9( was gonna get -1 but then i got impatient and told the tech, whatever, just make the left and right equal)
now that i look back. the poor tech was struggling with ever-changing softy bushings but he did end up getting it right.




inner tire wear, are you suggesting or adding to the issue that ingalls cannot properly hold alignment??
If so, i'd appreciate it if you could get photo of ingalls kit bushing part.

as soon as it stops raining i'm taking out mine to take pics.. and probably up for grabs since it looks like people love them.



PS. how do i add tags? we need "ingalls" "alignment" "problem" "deformation" "bushing" "wobbly"

sauceja

iTrader: (2)

No I am slammed (well I want to be). My POS ISC N1 coils are maxed out (and I am not very low).

Which some people I know with the same coils have achieved lower ride heights. But for some reason mine do not go any lower.

After further review though I am done with Ingalls.

My last alignment lasted me 45 miles before my ebrake vibrated so bad it was louder than the radio not to mention shook the whole car.

I have spent right at $500.00 just in alignments since the install of my rear Ingalls kit (both camber and toe) I have never seen a beginning reading in spec. Yet after every alignment I have left being 0 toe and -1 to -1.5 camber. My last one I left at 0 camber 0 toe in the rear.

I can visually see one of my tires so negative toe the if faces inward.

I have burned through about 750.00 worth of tires since I installed the ingalls kit. My last alignment was the day before an 850 mile drive.

So those tires lasted 850 miles.

Can I contact ingalls for punitive damages?????? Because this shit is getting expensive.

I could be half way to an LS1 swapped 240sx for the cost of tires and alignments.

Not to mention the hundreds more it is going to cost to get these garbage ass products off my car.

How is that for a positive review? I have no issues with Heeltoe. They have been extremely helpful with everything.

I will be sourcing new bars for the rear and fabricating the toe bar. And I will be be going with an upper camber bar.

Anything but ingalls.

I had an alignment in June, 2k miles round trip. Burned a set of tires.

Had an alignment end of June, 850 mile trip home. I will be needing to replace these tires soon.

I had a different set of tires on the car when this kit was first installed and 2 of those tires are shot.

I am starting to feel like I need to change my tires at every oil change interval.

I hope what I am saying helps at least one person out from making a horrible purchase.

Slpr04UA6

^I feel your pain. I have had so many alignments, I've forgotten how many! I have had many different shops do the Allignment, to only find out the hard way that the Ingalls kit is not working.

I am not slammed.

Currently running no camber kit in the rear.....but will be purchasing the SPC upper camber kit for the rear. From the research I've done, you should be able to get Allignment in spec with the rear SPC bar, and stock lower camber/toe arms.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

I'm concerned my ingalls kit isn't working either...toe won't stay put. Not putting a ton of miles on, so I think my tires are still holding out...getting another alignment soon tho. But like Sauceja, my toe never seems to be the same when I go in for another alignment (thank god firestone hasn't dropped my lifetime package.)

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

Any one else have this issue? If so what did you do to fix it...

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

I reverted the car back to stock lower arms & control arms and replaced the upper arm with SPC upper arms to get the camber adjustment on the top of the knuckle vice on the bottom.

Had the camber adjusted to -1.4 on both rears and the stock control arms had enough adjustment to get the toe into spec.

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

I have -2 camber on my 18x9.5 +20 but I will need -3 to -4 camber when I put my new 18x10 +18 on. Will the SPC allow me to have that much camber and still have the toe straight with the stock arms?

leasureryan

I want what this guy made^^ help me out!

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

^Haha we all do. He said he has a few people that want it too and would love to make some but only if he has 10+ people interested in a group buy type of deal. So possible deposits if we can find enough people to jump on this.

max 1.6

In fact, we can be less people in this but the price will be higher. Like I said, it's a lot depending on the price of the stock arms also.

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

I can send 1-4 sets of stock arms up to you if needed. I have two TLs and can get the arms of some buddies TLs that are on aftermarket ones without any problems that they know of.

leasureryan

I've got my stock take offs. can send them, just keep me updated. I'm down

DeMAN

No bashing here but this has been a problem for awhile with me pre heeltoe and post heeltoe kit with alignment issues on stock setup on the rear. It doesn't matter whether a company replaces the kit or not, they will not replace the tires. (I wouldn't expect them too)

Fact is it doesn't look like the problem has been solved as to rear alignment issues. While some has been successful most have not.

I would like to see or hear a fix that works for all, not just a few.
I have a coworker with aftermarket wheels (18") on his car who haven't had any issues with rear alignment. Both cars (his and mind) have >160k miles and are both 2006...

DeMAN

To add to my statement, take a look at the next two or three gen 3 TL's on the road and see if you dont see the same issues with the rear wheels. //_\\ Thats on completely stock models. Not as bad as the picture but the tire will be worn on the inside. Looks like Acura may have gotten away with one....

mattpete

iTrader: (4)

I'm reading this thread in hopes of figuring out the best route to take my rear out of negative camber after installing s-tech/tockico suspension but I'm not really sure…

Alignment is perfect all around except for rear camber, -2 presently. I just don't want to blow through tires.

ingalls or spc?

will either even fix camber to close to zero??

If I can't fix this I might just put stock suspension back on.

thoughts?

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

Stock 3g TL's come with 0 front camber and -1 rear camber that's why the tires wear on the inside a bit more and same reason that you should rotate your tires so the wear is even. But camber wont wear that fast if the toe is set perfect. Toe is the major thing to look out for imo, don't get me wrong anything over -1.5 wears tires fast also

mattpete

iTrader: (4)

Thanks VIC

made sure my tech was anal about toe being perfectly set.
he did a great job.

I'm also thinking that with proper rotation I should get close to the maximum life out of the tires…

I'm not so concerned about the camber per se, toe is the major killer, but I would still love to have that flush look without //...\\

4drviper

that's the spec.


In the service manual they allow (i think) half degrees +- so front +0.5 ~ -0.5 and rear -0.5 ~ -1.5 is "within spec" I will post exact numbers or scan of the page when I'm back home.


I used front skunk2 and rear SPC camber kit to set it -0.8 all around. (prior to camber kit, front was some ghey ass positive camber, rear was -1.4 and -1.7)

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

No problem, I personally love that /__/oo--------oo\__\ flush look


Yes that's right they allow quite a bit of play, that's why I go to Firestone where I got my $150 lifetime alignment. Always go home happy.


I also have the Skunk2 with the hella flush mod and Spc so it works great

DeMAN

I going to have to go to Firestone or something. My rear tires starts to wear even before I get to the 5k-6k miles rotation time. This is not the way I want to spend every other Saturday, at a repair shop. I see other TL's of our generation on the highway thats probably having the same problem as we are especially if you are putting 15k+ miles per year on the odometer

Still surprise no one seem to have solutions to this problems

This could also be a part of Acura loosing sales to other automakers especially on the TL.

1. 4th generation look
2. price
3. Rear Tire Alignment issues. (I only know of one person who hasn't had this issue) Dont like have to buy tires every year after living with the noise after first few months

leasureryan

Did anyone answer the question if you can run the stock tow arm with the ingalls kit? also....when/why do I need to do the "hellaflush" mod to my Skunk 2 uppers?

vic06b

iTrader: (4)

You can run the stock toe arms to a point. On my car after -2 or more of camber i needed to used aftermarket arms. The hellaflush mod is only needed if u want to add more negative camber in the front so if you want to go back to 0 camber after lowering then you wont ever need it. Basically only needed for more negative camber not less that's my

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

As this thread has been externally linked to Heeltoe as a reference of an issue with Ingalls rear arms by one of our customers, I am posting links to content in our Heeltoe Pitboard blog which helps expand and address the concern.

Firstly, Heeltoe has historically promoted the Ingalls rear kit, and this blog post had given our support for that recommendation:
https://www.heeltoeauto.com/blogs/fo...l-joints..html

Secondly, after many years of successful installs, a couple users (a couple of them existing within this very thread) voiced concerns about the integrity of their Ingalls' kits bushings. We formally addressed these concerns in a follow up blog here:
https://www.heeltoeauto.com/honda-ac...15-update.html

Lastly, in most recent times, Ingalls had released a higher performance version of their 38725 kit, and fitted it with linear ball joint spherical ends. We received the very first sets of these and announced them here:
https://www.heeltoeauto.com/announci...r-toe-kit.html

Any concerns about the use of the Ingalls arms should have been resovled well after the original posting here. If you've got questions or concerns about the Ingalls 38725 kits, which Heeltoe still stands confidently behind, please contact us for support!

Marcus - 949-295-1668

nfnsquared

Which, to me, indicates that Ingalls knew there was an issue with the original design...

BROlando

Revisions happen in the engineering world all the time. They should have just made a better quality rubber bushing to begin with, but my guess is that these are probably just private label parts. However, I really haven't seen an aftermarket rubber OE type bushing that isn't junk. So maybe it's harder to make than it seems.

Hopefully the sphericals last.

Are these available for 2nd Gen TSX's? I'm hoping to buy a camber kit at some point for our wagon.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

That is a completely incorrect assumption. The only evidence of an issue were select customer complaints which were difficult to substantiate. We worked with Ingalls to make this kit in response to the few boisterous complaints being made in these forums. Not because anyone on this side truly believed there was an issue with the rubber-bushing part.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I think we could put some of the ends on the link in an Ingalls 35623 kit...I would need to confirm this though. Otherwise, SPC does make a rear kit although it is all bushings. Also note that the CW2 is not over-working it's chassis quite the same as the 3g TL is. The rear end of your car is a revised layout.

BROlando

Thanks for the reply!

t-rd

The thread with the actual comments, was the one regarding J-Power rear camber kit. The guy in that post was able to make it work by welding the arms solid.

1. I think you need to find someone lowered at least 1" and put on the new ends with the sphericall bushings and get proof via another alignment after a few months' worth of driving, BEFORE, you can make an assumption that it's fixed.
2. YES, there was a problem that's why they went with a new design. I do not see a new design from SPC, and the rear toe stays put on my car period.
3. I NEVER EVER received anything back from Ingalls Engineering, because I sent my personally used arms in, used for 2 years. I did not get an offer to use the new design, nor did I receive any sort of response from them.
4. The arms rusted to hell, did they fix that? Because my SPC arms are still not rusted after almost 3 years of usage. I live in the same area outside of Chicago.

SPC and Hard Race ONLY for me.