4drviper

so alignment after alignment,,, my rear toe keeps "moving around" a little..

could it be because i put a LOT of anti seize on the shaft of the bolt?

or the nylon nut is old so I have to replace it???

blksrt4u

my car did the same thing, finally figured out that the bushings on the kit were moving ever so slightly, So I called and got replacements. Fixed it.

4drviper

hmm i'm going to make marks on the bushing with white marker and see if they move.

thanks.

4drviper

alignment went off center yesterday. came back dead on today -___-

Gregerst

iTrader: (1)

That's not good. How many miles do you have on your kit?

4drviper

Like 150 miles. Not 150,000. Half a gas tank. 150 miles

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

My friend does alignment on a quite a few cars: Civics, Integras, Accords, TL and CLs with the SPC and Ingalls camber kit.

He tells me that even though he zeros out the toe. It always becomes slightly off with the Ingalls kit. He says he doesn't like this kit for this reason. It seems like it's pretty common.

4drviper

from the looks of where the kit attaches, i think to adjust toe, they have to move both, and also to adjust to camber, move both. not just lower arm.

anyway...

when i take a couple hard lefts, the steering is off th the left (i have to aim at 11 o clock to make the car go straight)

also when i take some hard rights, then i have to aim at ,,,, 1'oclock ish...

but after driving a mile or two, they come back to center -___-

does ingalls use some kind of soft bushing or something?? ugh. i thought i'd be happy with alingment like ingalls would've fixed everything.

DeMAN

I having the same issue with my rear tires being eaten up on he inside. I had them installed and alignment done about 4k miles ago.

I love my ar but I hate this have been a PIA. Don't mine spending the money but I want a fix for this issue

4drviper

i plan to throw the car around in northwestern SC and going for another alignment at a different place.

i called ahead and tech said i can sit in the car while he does that (which apparently changes camber by 0.2 and toe by 0.12, degrees.)

gonna study for finals now.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

its the bushing. I had ingalls and swap back to OEM and Eibach upper arm camber kit.

4drviper

does that mean, even if i get replacements from ingalls,

it will keep doing it?

Slpr04UA6

^I am thinking the same thing. I have Ingalls at the moment, and have the same issue.

4drviper

poop...... now the only option is having urethane bushing made for the car............?

why does mr heeltoe recommend it over SPC/Eibach then?!?!?!??! i don't get it..

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

My guess is because the dust boot/cover on the SPC/Eibach camber kit cracks overtime. Even though SPC sent me polyurethane replacement boots, they still cracked after about 6 years.

I personally prefer the SPC one because of its simple/easy way to adjust the camber only. Then just use the stock toe bolt to adjust the toe.

Slpr04UA6

^jeez! Six years is much longer than the 2 1/2 yrs I've had the Ingalls! SPC may be the way to go! Thnks for the info! Did you have to pay for the poly replacements?

4drviper

Q : why can't u just buy OEM rubber boot and slide it over on the SPC/Eibach ball joint??
that's what I did with skunk2 camber kit up front because everyone said skunk rubber boot is a POS.


maybe they get more $$ out of selling ingalls than SPC?

i mean come on. who couldn't have thought of just using OEM boot which costs like $2?

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

No, I did not have to pay for the poly replacements. I just call SPC and told them they were cracking and they sent it to me for free. But this was 6 years ago and their customer service was excellent back then. I'm not sure how they are now because I haven't dealt with them.

I'm not 100% sure if the set they sent me were actually poly because they were black and not the red boots. I asked them this because they were black and they told me that none of the kits use rubber boots anymore.

4drviper

Seriously. Both xlr8 and heeltoe The "experts" recommend ingalls over spc for the damn dust boot?

I guess wobbling alignment is less important than finding a new piece of rubber boot.

I wish I could return ingalls pos and get SPC

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

Besides the dust boot issue, the Ingalls camber kit is much easier to install than the SPC camber arms. You need the fork tool and sometimes the stock arm is a pain in the a$$ to remove.

Maybe the ease of installation is another reason why they both recommended the Ingalls kit? I'm just guessing though.

4drviper

i'm not trying to fight you but,

is the rear ball joint THAT hard to pop compared to front upper ball joint? those popped right away with a $10 loaner fork and didn't give me any trouble when i was installing skunk2 front arms.

besides, the rear toe cambolt is a known rust issue....

dammit. i might buy SPC -_-;;; why hasn't anyone complained that ingalls can't hold a damn alignment after getting on a highway ramp for a couple times??? i don't even have summer tires.

PS : nice avatar LOL

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

I like my avatar too

All good man. I'm not mad or anything. I'm just putting my experience with both kits out there and hopefully it might be of help to someone.

The rear camber arm is "CAN" be difficult. I've replaced them twice (once to replace the stock arms and 2nd to replace the cracked dust boot).

The first time was easy and the second time was a big pain. It just wouldn't pop out. I had the most trouble with the driver side rear. The passenger rear was easy.

It sometimes just depends on your luck that day.

4drviper

word.


anyway.

i was thinking, and wondering if i JUST put the stock solid arm back on for the toe arm (control arm)....

since camber is very static (stable), 3 times on alignment rack camber hasn't changed all 3 times at -0.9 but toe was always different.

putting the stock toe arm back in,,,,, could it solve the problem???

it's only an hour worth of work but i'm just trying to get educated opinion before i get my hands dirty

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

I was told by my friend who does the alignment kit on the Ingalls one, you "CAN" just install camber arm and leave the OEM toe control arm on there.

I've NEVER tried it because I haven't had your problem with my Ingalls kit. *knock on wood*

I say give it a shot and come back and inform us if it worked or not.

4drviper

I contacted Ingalls Engineering directly since mr heeltoe said he's not aware of any situation where the alignment would move on its own...
(not aware doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right?) don't get me wrong. he was nice and fast in replying to my concerns. he even replied me on sunday evening!!
it's just that his replies didn't give me solutions, for the part that says HT SPEC

well. to add, today driving down interstate at 55mph, i noticed the center of steering shifting -________- toe changes while driving? LOL is this a joke?!

i asked ingalls if it would void the warranty on lower(camber) arm if i replace the control(toe) arm with OEM one, i'll get on it when they get back to me.

TBH, why cant' they just use HARD rubber bushing like OEM or skunk2?

the ingall bushing was soft i could just wiggle around with my filmsy pianist fingers.

Slpr04UA6

^I did remove the Ingalls toe arm, and put factory (OEM) toe arm back in place. It worked for a bit, but my Ingalls camber bushings were shot as well! I just figured out the Ingalls camber bushings were shot when I removed them yesterday. I assumed they were, as after I replaced the OEM toe bar, Allignment went out shortly after getting it aligned. I am probably going to get SPC upper arm. Just got back from Allignment this morning, using both OEM camber/toe arms. Will see how this goes for a few days!


Vietnastee-are you running both SPC and Ingalls? Or just SPC?

4drviper

crap.... well i understand these quality control issues are case-by-case, and hoping my camber arm bushings are normal.

after all, it won't cost me any money to swap back out OEM arm so i'm going to try that.

do you think there's any way they accept refund for defective part for a month old camber kit? lol... warranty is 90 days..


btw V has just SPC upper camber kit.

Slpr04UA6

^I am not sure on the return policy. I called Ingalls about replacement bushings, and the rep said he could do all bushings on all arms for ~$41. I would have to send them in to be pressed out, and new bushings pressed in.

4drviper

LOL ingalls, are they f*cking kidding me?!?!??! okay 2 things

1. $41? i still wouldn't be happy even if they covered shipping AND cost of new alignment just for the inconvenience. they should pay me for my time and stress -_-

2. Press out? lmao those jello bushings can be just ripped out and tapped in with a rubber mallet, aren't they?

wow ingalls suck balls i hope they go bankrupt

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

We recommend INGALLS because it includes 2 arms per side (one for toe and one for camber); SPC only includes one arm to adjust camber. If there is an issue as of late then people should contact INGALLS to let them know so they can check over everything and help solve the issue.

4drviper

(I could also say, get SPC because it can get the job done with only 1 arm, whereas ingalls need 2 pieces to get the same thing done.)

UNLESS installing camber kit throws out toe SO out of spec, that OEM cam bolt cannot get it to zero,
your argument is invalid. (i didn't mean it against you personally. i'm just stating the fact)


currently contacting ingalls.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately for you you lack experience and expertise. We have a lot of both, especially when it comes to the 3G Acura TL. Your argument is invalid and your facts are wrong. The SPC arms only adjust camber. So it doesn't do the same thing as the INGALLS. The INGALLS kit adjusts camber AND toe.

If there is a problem with the INGALLS bushings it's a new problem. And I'm sure INGALLS will take care of it under warranty. Instead of bashing the product call up and let them know and give them a chance to take care of it.

4drviper

Toe is already adjustable and I have no problem with toe.

If I could just purchase camber arm for half the price I wouldn't complain.
Or if they just mad the camber arm with a better quality bushing that could justify the price, that'd be great.

As far as getting "two arms instead of 1" sounds like "two $10 bills are better than $20 because you get TWO money instead of 1"

So I would like to give you chance to explain why it is necessary to purchase (and possibly compromise the relative quality of the kit as a reliable CAMBER adjustment kit) the toe arm instead of just getting the adjustable upper arm for the same price?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Many members have problem with the toe and camber. The SPC kit will not adjust toe. If you want just camber then get the SPC kit, but it's the same price as the INGALLS, which includes adjustments for toe and camber. Seems pretty logical to me to get both for the same price as the SPC, which one does camber.

At the end of the day, it's your car. Order whatever you want. If you want to buy SPC, buy SPC.

Slpr04UA6

^I think what 4drviper was getting at is that if you are just looking to get back in spec (Allignment wise)and your car is not slammed, and not running extreme wheel width/offsets. SPC with OEM toe arm may be able to get the Allignment correct.



My Ingalls bushings are deformed. Called Ingalls, they aren't willing to do anything, but charge $41 to press new bushings in. My worry is, it will happen again!

max 1.6

You guys should read this thread https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-tires-wheels-suspension-97/j-power-camber-kit-review-864705/
There is nothing that could be done with the Ingalls kit, period. These type of bushings for the toe arm on the 3G TL are just not suitable for this application. Honda developped a sealed spherical bearing for the TL toe arm and there is a reason.

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

I still have the SPC camber kit on my 6G Accord (same as the 2G TL and CL). I got tired of taking the arm off and replacing the busted dust boot.

I only have the Ingalls kit on my 3G TL. I got the Ingalls kit because I didn't want to deal with the dust boot anymore. If I could do it again, I would go again with SPC. Just my personal preference.

Let me shed some light on the SPC vs Ingalls camber kit so everyone can be informed on how these kits work.

Option 1) You get the SPC camber kit. You use the SPC camber kit to only adjust the camber. You CAN still adjust the toe, using the "Stock" Toe bolt.

Option 2) You get the Ingalls camber kit. You can adjust the camber and toe with this kit. However, you should set the "Stock" Toe bolt to 0.00 and then only use the Ingalls toe arm to adjust the toe. The reason you set the stock toe bolt to 0.00 is so it makes adjustments easier.

In the end, both kits work well and you can adjust the toe and camber with any of these kits. The SPC kit is simpler and it gets the job done.

The Ingalls kit gives you a little more play with the toe (but from experience, it's not needed.) Unless the original toe settings can not be accomplished from the stock toe bolt, I've not encountered this situation yet though.

I hope this information has helped.

4drviper

it's not logical to me since my toe was and is perfectly happy without the ingalls to arm. but... please don't get mad continue reading.

the blue letter.
it hit me while i was swapping out OEM pads with half used yellowstuff.
OH SHIT, most people get camber kit for messing up the whole suspension geometry for looks (aka slamming) so they WILL NEED the toe arm and XLR8s suggestions were true...

came back to say his "two arms is better than one" is irrelevant to me but very reasonable.
and then i found slpr's post.



thank you for the info. throwing out ingalls toe arm in the trash right now

ATLS_666

So is it ok to run just the ingalls camber arms and keep the factory arms? Will they have enough room to work with each other?

4drviper

i got a reply from ingalls about my ever-changing, softie & wobbly alignment, and they told me it won't void warranty to only use ingalls camber arm, with OEM toe arm. but they said it might throw the toe out.

so install cambe arm first, see how it goes (use free alignment checks) and .. go from there.


BUT. read more please



don't install ingalls anything. they make the camber freaking dynamic, not to mention the toe.
as you push your car around the corner, the camber goes POSITIVE lol...... (mcpherson strut much, right?)

i wish i could get the pic but it's raining outside. I used ingalls in attempt to get -1.6 camber to -1.0

the camber arm bushings are obscenely stretched and deformed to pull the bottom of the knuckle inside, whereas stock camber arm bushings are rock hard.

it's very easy to see how ingalls only work if you drive your car in straights like a grandma.
I have no idea why they'd cheap out on the bushings but they did.
I'm ordering a pair of SPC on ebay for 150 right now. fingers crossed their bushings are harder than average phallus. because ingalls is not -_-;
i'm putting mine up for sale this week........