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I am a little panicked after my drive home from work today.
I was noticing the whole way home today that right after shifting into second gear, the car would start to shudder a little bit through the whole car. The sweet spot for this was right around 20 mph and only on acceleration. I had my LCA compliance bushings done yesterday and an alignment done as a result. I had put the coils on over the weekend. I only noticed this happening after the new LCA bushings were put on. I wasn't paying too close attention when driving it yesterday, but thinking back, I may have noticed it a little.
I am really hoping and thinking that this isn't a transmission issue. Before the drop the transmission felt great. It still shifts very crisply in all gears. Into second and into third were fine, it was just the middle where I was hitting 20MPH that I was experiencing the shaking/shuddering.
From my quick research, I am thinking it may be an issue with the axles and the new angle after lowering. Any thoughts?
May be unrelated but Did you do an alignment after lowering?
Good to hear. I mean, not so good because it means more parts to replace and it doesn't look like axles are terribly cheap... but cheaper than a transmission.
The alignment was done yesterday when I had the LCA compliance bushings done.
The bad compliance bushings could have caused some power loss in the driveshaft from the excessive play at the bushing.
Now that it has been corrected, you re-gain that torsion loss in the axle.
So it's very possible that the energy re-gained in the driveline is now transferring more load to the mount, than when you had bad compliance bushings.
In result, it has unmasked a bad motor mount and giving you that low mph shudder, that bad front mounts can do.
Normally symptoms appear from a dead stop, but at low MPH <20 and shifting into second could duplicate those symptoms.
I would investigate the front mount, before dropping any money. If the front mount is bad, buy the passenger mount as well.
The bad compliance bushings could have caused some power loss in the driveshaft from the excessive play at the bushing.
Now that it has been corrected, you re-gain that torsion loss in the axle.
So it's very possible that the energy re-gained in the driveline is now transferring more load to the mount, than when you had bad compliance bushings.
In result, it has unmasked a bad motor mount and giving you that low mph shudder, that bad front mounts can do.
Normally symptoms appear from a dead stop, but at low MPH <20 and shifting into second could duplicate those symptoms.
I would investigate the front mount, before dropping any money. If the front mount is bad, buy the passenger mount as well.
I should have taken some pictures of the old bushing, tearing was decent on both sides of each bushing.
As far as the motor mounts, the front and side mounts look brand new. The dealer replaced 2 before I bought the car, so I was told. I am assuming these are the two. I think I will go in and try and get a service print out to have for my records. They also did the timing belt, so I really want that piece of paperwork if I ever sell the car. How would I go about inspecting the mounts for tears/breaks? Nothing seemed visible upon quick inspection.
I am thinking the rear mount may be going bad. The reasons you have listed are pointing to it. I also have noticed increased vibration in the car on idle, mainly in the dashboard, it's rattling on idle occasionally. Super annoying.
I was going to inspect the transmission mounts this weekend as well. The car will shift a little harder from first to second, more noticeable at lower RPM's, so I am thinking this may be the root cause.
I also have the top and bottom radiator bushings being shipped to me right now. I was feeling the fan kick in and saw that these might fix that.
Seems like replacing all the rubber bushings/mounts on the car at 100k/10 years may just be a good idea. North Carolina car its whole life, so there's 0 rust. The exhaust is barely rusty.
It is definitely the axles. This happened to my base TL when I had lowered it. Mine wasn't that noticeable, and after about 6 months or so it went away. It has to do with the CV axles wearing at a different angle.
It is definitely the axles. This happened to my base TL when I had lowered it. Mine wasn't that noticeable, and after about 6 months or so it went away. It has to do with the CV axles wearing at a different angle.
I am only noticing it at the 15-25MPH speed limits. I may have some shaking at higher speeds, but I honestly haven't got my car up to speed on a solid piece of asphalt to truly tell if it's the road or my car.
I think I will hold off for another 2 months or so, assuming it doesn't get worse, and replace them when I go home for Easter. At my Dad's, we have all our air tools and other tools that would make this job super easy. In my apartment I only have my hand tools. If I replace I will be going with Raxles, considering the OEM drive shafts are $515 or $550 a piece for the auto trans.
Who knows, the issue could go away like yours did. This way I'll have some time to save some money and confirm the axles are the issue.
My initial panic that it was the transmission is gone, so I feel A LOT better now, but still sucks I'll be putting another $500 into the car. It's never ending....
I'm having this issue too actually, but I haven't lowered. I recently just replaced axles with raxles and also got the compliance bushings done at the same time. Front and passenger mounts were done about 5-6 months ago, so the next thing I'm going to do is the rear.
I'm having this issue too actually, but I haven't lowered. I recently just replaced axles with raxles and also got the compliance bushings done at the same time. Front and passenger mounts were done about 5-6 months ago, so the next thing I'm going to do is the rear.
Interesting. So you have the shuddering/shaking from approx. 15-25MPH? Did you start to notice the issue only after having the compliance bushings done and the CV axles?
I'm thinking the rear mount could be a potential culprit, but still not going to rule out the axles.
My plan is to get under the car this weekend and try and check to see what the condition of the rear mount is. I recently have noticed a lot more vibration at idle, especially in the dash area.
My issue is some signs point to mounts, some signs point to axles. As far as the axles go, I am not having any of the other common symptoms of a bad axle, so I think looking at replacing the rear mount first is the correct move. Rear engine mount is ~$94. Worth a try before I drop $500 on axles. As one of the first responses states, replacing the compliance bushing could have brought out a bad mount, so hopefully this is the case.
I can't say the exact mph but it's most prominent when after I go from 1st gear -> 2nd gear, and then roughly around 2100 RPM -> ~2900 RPM. If I gas very lightly it's not as bad, but if I mash on the gas then you can feel a pretty violent shudder. Once I get into 3rd gear you can still feel the shudder again around the same RPM range, but it's much more faint than 2nd gear.
Yeah, I pretty much started noticing about a week after getting the CV axles (both done) and compliance bushings done. At least the vibrations at 75-80mph are gone now though. I've also read that if you're lowered, you're putting on more stress on the axles. If they're not the issue now, they probably will be, but you're right in tackling the rear engine mount first. For me, the axle replacement was done because I started hearing clicking on the first turn of the day, and I figured I'd do the compliance bushings at the same time. One of the bushings was pretty much completely torn, but I couldn't tell when it was still on the car.
I can't say the exact mph but it's most prominent when after I go from 1st gear -> 2nd gear, and then roughly around 2100 RPM -> ~2900 RPM. If I gas very lightly it's not as bad, but if I mash on the gas then you can feel a pretty violent shudder. Once I get into 3rd gear you can still feel the shudder again around the same RPM range, but it's much more faint than 2nd gear.
Yeah, I pretty much started noticing about a week after getting the CV axles (both done) and compliance bushings done. At least the vibrations at 75-80mph are gone now though. I've also read that if you're lowered, you're putting on more stress on the axles. If they're not the issue now, they probably will be, but you're right in tackling the rear engine mount first. For me, the axle replacement was done because I started hearing clicking on the first turn of the day, and I figured I'd do the compliance bushings at the same time. One of the bushings was pretty much completely torn, but I couldn't tell when it was still on the car.
I am noticing my shuddering in the middle of second gear, which happens to be 15-25MPH. The fact that both our issues popped up after having compliance bushings done makes me think there is some correlation. Is your shudder occuring when your car is shifting or while it's still going through the gear?
What I will probably do is raise my car an inch or so this weekend and see if it alleviates the issue some. If that's the case then I can probably be pretty sure it's the axles. I read on another thread that raising the car an inch helped someone else out who had the same issue.
After driving the car home today and getting it up to 80, I am almost positive the issue is with the axle.
Got some pretty bad shaking once I got from 75 - 80 MPH. I will raise the car an inch or so this weekend and see if this helps. Not looking forward to dropping another $500 on the thing, especially since I owe a decent amount on the car still. Hopefully this is the last big ticket item I have to do for awhile.
Before anyone says I did this to myself: Yes, I did! However, the rear struts were definitely blown and the the coilovers have noticeably improved all other aspects of driving. I was looking at having to replace the struts on all 4 corners anyways, so I figured I mine as well go with coilovers because the cost difference was negligible. I've got wheels to put tires on and then I don't think I'll be doing anything else to the car except maintenance and paying it off. I've already dumped a couple grand into it on top of maxing what I can pay online per month for the payments, so needless to say, by bank account is hurting a little. Oh well, I'm 22 and always wanted to modify a car, this is the price I'm paying.
don't beat yourself up, going to coilovers alone is not the sole cause of this. your car is over 10 years old, these things happen! you'll love the sportiness and look of coilovers way more than a stock setup!
Also, just curious, how did your front mount look when you took it out? Not sure if I NEED to do the rear mount, but I bought it already so I just need to find the time. My front also looked like this when I took it out, roughly around 107k miles. I'm at 115k now. Just some hairline cracks but nothing alarming...
don't beat yourself up, going to coilovers alone is not the sole cause of this. your car is over 10 years old, these things happen! you'll love the sportiness and look of coilovers way more than a stock setup!
Yeah, I know, I'm always hesitant to put my real birthday out there, but I'm actually 22. But I cannot figure out how to change your birth date on the site because I would like for my actual age to display.
I'm just worried things are never going to stop breaking on the car. I've already had to replace the battery, starter, and an O2 sensor in the first 4.5 months of owning, along with the compliance bushings and struts/springs. Along with the preventative maintenance I have done which includes spark plugs, tranny 3x3, pressure switches, serpentine belt, idler pulley, tensioner, and rear pads and rotors. Many of those were part of the 105k service though.
I am a little bit of a hypo-car-driac, as my Dad says, so I like to find things wrong or think things are wrong with my car all the time. I fix one thing, something else breaks. My other issue is that I am a perfectionist, I want the car perfect. I just made a rather large purchase for some parts, including just misc. interior pieces that are broken/missing, the APP sensor, and my final TPMS for my new wheels. I will hopefully have some pictures up soon of the car. I've done a 1-step paint correction on it. Of course, it still bothers be how many knicks, dings, and dents there are on the body, but oh well, it's 10 years old.
Originally Posted by jimmyfu
Also, just curious, how did your front mount look when you took it out? Not sure if I NEED to do the rear mount, but I bought it already so I just need to find the time. My front also looked like this when I took it out, roughly around 107k miles. I'm at 115k now. Just some hairline cracks but nothing alarming...
I wish I could tell you what the mount looked like before it was replaced, but the dealership I bought the car from did it before I bought the car. I wanna see about going in this weekend to get the service record on what they did. I'm thinking they should be able to give be that based on the VIN. They also did the timing belt and water pump, so I definitely want proof that was done if I ever decide to sell the car. I imagine I never will and continue to hoard any car I ever buy, but we'll see! Sorry, rambling as always.
Looking at your front mount, I can pretty much assure that mine is brand new then, the rubber still has that new rubber film on it.
don't beat yourself up, going to coilovers alone is not the sole cause of this. your car is over 10 years old, these things happen! you'll love the sportiness and look of coilovers way more than a stock setup!
Agreed, these are mechanical parts that WILL fail. Most do at the worst time possible. It's only money! Get them replaced and enjoy the car!
Agreed, these are mechanical parts that WILL fail. Most do at the worst time possible. It's only money! Get them replaced and enjoy the car!
True, my starter died 2 weekends ago when I was 3 hours from my apartment. Luckily, I could get the car started by having my friend tap on the starter and then I had enough gas to get home. Replaced it over the next two days after work using only my phone's flashlight for light. Second starter I have had die in the last year. The first was on my old car and I was 6 hours from my apartment. I now just try and get a ride with a friend whenever I go somewhere because anytime I drive a car somewhere, it breaks. My last 4 trips to visit friends have gone like this: starter died, totaled car, check engine light came on for O2 sensor, starter died. My luck is shit. This is all in the last 8 months.
Yeah, I know, I'm always hesitant to put my real birthday out there, but I'm actually 22. But I cannot figure out how to change your birth date on the site because I would like for my actual age to display.
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I plan on trying to get into some property here in the next 2 years or so. Renting is just pissing money away. I need to start building some equity.
I can hopefully get this car up to spec with the axle replacement and not have to worry about it for awhile and actually start saving some more money... I want a project car though, so we'll see... I really want a manual car that I can build. I wish my TL was a manual, but I had limited time to buy since I totaled my old car and this was the only one I checked out that fit every other requirement. I really wanted a TL, I just loved the way this thing looks and drives, even with the auto. Slowly working out the quirks. I don't mind the car having some issues because I enjoy working on cars, but at a certain point, things start to get old.
Yeah, I know, I'm always hesitant to put my real birthday out there, but I'm actually 22. But I cannot figure out how to change your birth date on the site because I would like for my actual age to display.
So this weekend I raised the car in the front a little bit. The vibration/shuddering I was getting got a little better. Definitely not noticing it has much from that 20-25MPH sweet spot.
I did discover two things this weekend that may be contributing some to the issue, but I suspect the axles, and specifically the front left axle, are/is going bad. Hopefully with the car raised a little, I can hold off doing the axles until I return home and have access to some air tools.
What I discovered this weekend was that my transmission top mount is torn in half on one side and that my front left stabilizer bar bushing is completely torn in half on one side as well. I have ordered both bushings and I hope I can replace both this weekend. I was having noticeable shuddering/shifts going from first to second gear since I bought the car. I have a very good suspicion the replacing the tranny top mount will alleviate this issue.
Mine's starting to crack too, but while I was checking that mount I noticed that my stiffy damper also tore or something... Perhaps that is also going out for you as well? Keep in mind mine is aftermarket, but people on here say that damper goes bad after such and such years...
Thanks, I will look into it if I am still having issues after replacing the top tranny mount!
I didn't even know this part existed on the car! After doing some research, it looks like Excelerate sells one for $150. Since I have a 5AT, I would need to get an $80 bracket in order to properly fit the Engine Torque Damper on my car.
I may hold off on this for awhile. I've already spent too much money.
I have raised the car up on the front left since it was sitting lower than the front right. I have got the front right and left at almost the same exact height off the ground on, measuring from fender to asphalt. The distance is just shy of 25 inches. Raising the front left about an inch and the front right roughly half an inch has reduced the vibration/shuddering from the 20-25MPH sweet spot. I am sitting 25in from asphalt to fender on all 4 corners now. Car is looking good!
My new issue is that the car starts to shake through the steering wheel pretty badly from 75-80MPH. I haven't really taken the car past 80, but I imagine it would only get worse. Nothing noticeable prior to this.
I am thinking this is also related to the axles. I am thinking dropping the car pretty low and having the shuddering really just exposed the bad axles. Now I have essentially just put a band-aid on the wound.
Notes:
My tires look essentially brand new. Michelin Primacy MXM4 on the OEM wheels (for now). Not sure on when they were put on the car since they were put on before I bought, but I have put on 5k miles and they look to have a lot of tread left.
I just had my lower compliance bushings done, so they are brand new.
I obviously just installed coilovers, so it's not an issue with the struts or springs (at least I sincerely hope not).
The only other notable thing wrong with the front suspension is that the front left stabilizer bar bushing is torn. I have ordered a replacement, but it kinda looks like a bitch to replace.
My transmission mount is also bad. I also have ordered this and it looks like I will receive my latest order from Acura on Friday. Will definitely replace the tranny mount this weekend.
I will be re-clocking all of my suspension bushings this weekend. I did not do this when I installed the coilovers 2 weeks ago.
Any thoughts?
The only other thing I figured I'd throw in... my car had only been driven 5k miles in the 3 years prior to the previous owner trading it in. Any potential damage caused by the car sitting a lot? I watched an Eric the Car Guy last night and he said bushing/rubber wear was common, which would explain why my mounts were replaced and my tranny top mount is bad.
^ yes, get an alignment before deciding anything on axles. you need an alignment any time you change any height amount (that's why most of us buy the lifetime alignments from firestone)
The only thing I worry about with Firestone is they're one of those places that I worry about messing with my car when I drop it off. I know they're one of the chains that's notorious for trying to claim you need the nickel and dime items. Luckily I know exactly the shape my car is in, so I would laugh if they told me I needed plugs or an air filter. My only real concern is they break something on my car.
The only thing I worry about with Firestone is they're one of those places that I worry about messing with my car when I drop it off. I know they're one of the chains that's notorious for trying to claim you need the nickel and dime items. Luckily I know exactly the shape my car is in, so I would laugh if they told me I needed plugs or an air filter. My only real concern is they break something on my car.
Understandable. i take our two cars about 1-2x per year over the past 4 years and i've not once had an issue and i've been to 3 different firestones. i always tell them to waive the inspection so they don't even look at anything not related to the alignment.
but if you are worried about that, you'll just have to pay more to have your alignment done. it's a balance and it's different for everyone!
I've had decent results with lifetime alignment from WheelWorks, but maybe that's a regional thing?
And a quick update that may help you, although I'm 6MT: I ordered a replacement damper from Amazon for roughly $70 after tax. I've added loctite to all the threads this time to prevent it from coming apart; and after initial driving I believe it's solved about 85% of the shuddering. I plan on doing the upper transmission mount next; it looks in pretty rough shape and I think it may have started to go after the torque damper came apart. Just waiting on new bolts to do the job . Fingers crossed!
Any update ON? In my quest to chase down the shudders, I also replaced the upper transmission mount, which pretty much took care of the rest of the shuddering. I am however suspecting that at least one lower transmission mount is done for as well, as I'm hearing a faint clunk after shifting.
The cracks weren't that great so it surprises me how much shuddering there was because of it. The job was pretty easy though as long as you can take out battery tray and have some extensions for sockets. Maybe a gear wrench too...
I replaced my top tranny mount this weekend. One of the corners looked like yours, starting to split. One of the corners was completely torn through. I will try and get some pictures up and maybe a DIY. Removing the battery tray was definitely key!
I haven't had a ton of time to drive the car around and test whether any issues have actually gone away. I have noticed shifts from first to second are a little smoother. Before changing the mount it would kinda jerk when shifting between those two gears. I could usually anticipate when that shift would be a little rough.
As far as any shuddering goes, everything is all the same. I still have vibration in the cabin, so it may be the rear engine mount that needs replacing now.
I am about 99% sure my axle(s) are bad. I get bad shaking in the wheel, especially at 75+ MPH. I also can occasionally hear a clicking noise when turning the wheel. It's not all the time, but I can almost guarantee with the other issues I am having that my axles are the culprit. Guess I know where a portion of my tax return is going.
According to my butt dyno, I think I'm actually able to put a little more power to the wheels now. My (MT) shifts seem to be matching up a lot closer as well, but that's probably a combination of both the stiffy damper and the top transmission mount. If you ever want to diagnose your lower mounts, this video shows a good way check. I only did a visual inspection and thought it was fine, but the video shows where the lower front transmission mount can split (and probably the rear as well)
I will check my lower mounts. It's probably not a bad idea to just replace them anyways. I think a large portion of why all my rubber parts are going bad is because my car sat for the better part of 3 years. It had 5k miles put on it from 2013-2016. I know cars don't like that very much...
On the drive to and from work today, I did notice that the Grade Logic downshifts were less harsh than they used to be. I used to get a very noticeable, almost cringe-worthy, downshift at the same place everyday. Well, I felt it today, but it was much less jarring.
If the two bottom mounts are bad, I may save some money on axles, but I'm not keeping my hopes high. Either way I think they may be like $40 for the two lower mounts, so I mine as well do them!
$40 for OEM both?! Please share! I replaced the top with DEA from Amazon for $20, but ordered the front OEM as a precaution, as that may be more of a pain to replace than the top.
02-15-2017, 05:05 PM
I don't mind the car having some issues because I enjoy working on cars, but at a certain point, things start to get old.
