VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

OK, so the front rotors and pads on our 2007 base TL lasted 67,000 miles. There was some meat left on the rotors, so I turned them and got new DuraLast pads (highly recommended from people on this board). As expected, that didn't last long, about 5,000 miles before I needed new rotors, so I got some from XLR8. But then just 15,000 miles later the rotors needed turning again (and yes, they were bedded-in properly). Now, just 15,000 miles later I had to turn the rotors AGAIN. So the factory rotors last 67,000 miles and I can't get aftermarket rotors to last more than 15K without turning them?

Hold that thought.

Factory rear rotors and pads lasted 84,000 miles. At that time I got new Centric rotors and the same DuraLast pads. Guess what happens 14,000 miles later? They need turned.

If anyone has any idea what the hell is going on, I'd sure like to hear it because I'm getting tired as hell of replacing brakes. I'm bedding them in properly, and we don't drive the car hard at all, so I don't see any reason for so many brake rotor problems. Could it be the DuraLast pads?

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

I would try different pads since you have the same issue on 2 different rotors.

NoTLoud

Are your wheels torqued down properly?

It could be an issue with your runoff.

I'm doing some research myself into the topic because I had this issue with my old car. Rotors would warp very quickly. I think I went through 3 sets in like 20k miles.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm doing on the rear now.

Absolutely, hand torqued every time. Probably a little weak, 80 ft-lbs, but sufficient I think.

EDIT: Actually, 80 is just what Acura specifies, so I'm good there. I was thinking it was weak because my Lotus requires 77 ft-lbs, and it's just 2,000 lbs.

WDPanda

Are you auto manual?
if your manual, try to use the brakes more when exiting highways as if you were doing one bed in stop. Sometimes the manual guys barely use their brakes

TacoBello

no, that doesn't sound right either, WDPanda. Something is definitely going on, as other guys use those same pads without issue.

Although likely an expensive option, I too would get new pads and new rotors at the same time, and see what happens. While I have recommended in the past that people try the brand I went with, I never had anyone jump on board. I'll be honest- I was a little skeptical at first, but after running the pads and rotors for 2 solid years, with some very hard driving, I've never had an issue. No warping. Still look great.

I got the all black rotors... as soon as you're done bedding the brakes, they remove all the black paint where the rotors are touched by the pad. everything else remains black, and for an area that sees plenty of salt in the winter, I still can't believe how good the rotors look. Minor rust. But they still look VERY good.

Brake Rotors Brake Discs Drilled Slotted Rotors

And for the record, my TL is 6MT equipped.

WDPanda

My current front combo is Raybestos adv with akebono street pads. Still good after 3 years. Rears warped due to calipers and im running centric blanks and centric posi quiets as Rock auto didnt carry akebono at the time.

how are the pads wearing? Evenly? Calipers could very well be the problem.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Automatic.

I'd like to get some more wear out of these before I do that, but it's definitely an option.

Thanks for the recommendation, I may try those next, although at this point I'm thinking of going back to OEM. No bedding required either.

I didn't look for uneven wear, I should have. I'm thinking calipers too, but on front and rear? Are you thinking piston issue? One side is moving and the other isn't, causing uneven clamping?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Rotors don't warp, it's just the transfer of pad material onto the rotor that
creates a variation in thickness and thus the pulsation.
You might be able to get some semi metallic pads, that's what I use on
our '08 knock-around car, and it will remove the pad deposits in about
2 days, then go back to pad of choice.

WDPanda

it's usually the piston but sometimes the guide pins as well on the caliper bracket. Those can usually be greased unless its rusted up inside. My rear brakes go through them every 2 years destroying my pads and rotor in the process by the time i catch it.

truonghthe

What state you reside in OP?

01tl4tl

Inspect the calipers- and guide pins lubrication and movement as noted above.
All pads need bedding, just not all tell you that!
Bedding is the transfer of pad material to rotor, that gives you much better braking friction
when its pad against pad-material on rotor
rotors must be sanded clean- or cut- before bedding new pads.
Uneven buildup of pad on rotor causes vibrations and worse

Have you FLUSHED the brake fluid in the special TL calipers order?

If you are buying high dollar rotors, USE the pads DESIGNED for those rotors- EBC with EBC, RacingBrake with RacingBrake
Others pads will mess them up

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, I have heard of the pads leaving uneven deposits, but never that rotors don't warp. The rears are using Raybestos pads now, so we'll see what happens with those.

So, in getting these semi-metallic pads and using them for just a few days to clean the rotors, won't this cause terrible squeal because of the dissimilar pad materials infecting the rotor metal, and subsequently the old pads?

That's interesting as well, I wonder if the calipers should just be rebuilt every so often.

Missouri.

I have always believed that, but now, at 46 years of age, I no longer believe it to be true. There isn't a single manufacturer that I can find that does a special treatment or bedding on their brakes when the car is new, yet they end up lasting longer than any set you can buy after-market and bed-in. If bedding is required, then why don't manufacturers do it?

No, I did get new fluid a few years ago though.

If you are buying high dollar rotors...[/QUOTE]

I just buy Centric, which is who makes the rotors for many manufacturers.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

but it doesnt matter....if you squeal for a few days....it'll be worth it if it cleans the rotor....

didnt read the rest of the thread comments...but i would look at calipers to make sure not sticking...and also take a look at braking habits. generally, riding the brake is bad..but of course, you knew this.

WDPanda

You should be able to move the pistons back with your hands. If you needs flat head or clamp, good chance piston is going bad very soon.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Guess I'm with the minority, but I've never bedded in any pads and never had a problem
with any of the brake jobs, many hundreds. Never had a problem with the TL, but the
'08 knock-around car needs assistant over time to clean the rotors. Last October the
vibration was getting pretty bad, and as I was leaving for a trip to Florida, installed
the cheap semi-metallic pads for a few days, vibration gone, pads reinstalled and has
been fine since.
Some more info:
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6444
Does speak of bedding, but that's their opinion..............

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

I figured the squeak would last, as the pad material would somewhat embed in the rotor, but I've never tried it, so I'll do that next time.

Oh, and I don't ride the brakes lol, I use the brakes as little as possible. However, I am very easy with them, it's a heavy car, so I start early and smoothly. I hate those people that use the brake like an on-off switch.

truonghthe

If you reside in MO then it won't be as bad since I used to deal with freeze caliper every freaking year in CT, but to be safe check your caliper piston to see if you can push back by hand (with your reservoir cap open) if you can then you can rebuild the piston, it pretty easy on a single piston... As far as the slide pin go lube them with silicon paste since regular high temp grease will dry over time.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Normally if one can push a piston in by hand it won't need rebuilding, unless leaking. Normally
the caliper gets rebuilt when the piston(s) becomes seized in the bore(s). Usually on the 4 piston
calipers it will be the lower pistons as that's where condensation resides.
Just an FYI-When the piston(s) out, one can clean up the bore with crocus cloth.

Invest in an infrared thermometer, great help when taking rotor temps to check for problems.

truonghthe

Sorry some how the computer left out the "t" at "can" But yeah you are right. I used to rebuilt these piston all the time, here is a pic from the rear back in 2015 after an oil change trip to the dealer and they told me the rear pads is low after I change all the pads and rotor 20k miles earlier. I know its the piston got stuck.

csmeance

Warped brakes simply means that the rotors for whatever reason is not 100% true and flat causing the pads to move back and forth. This can occur from pad material building up on the rotor, heating and cooling cycles of the metal itself, and a whole host of other factors.

Sounds like the pads are depositing material onto the rotor and causing the issue. Go with a slightly more aggressive pad and the issue should stop. You can use some metallic pads to help wear away at the uneven portions of the brake rotor as they can be very aggressive on rotors. After you get them nice and smooth, swap over to ceramic pads that were more aggressive than the duralast.

I gave up on trying various combinations of cheap rotors and pads and went with the Racing Brake Rotors and A-Spec pads and love the combination. The A-Spec pads are impossible to get now so it looks like I'll be using the ET500 from racingbrake or perhaps an EBC pad. Rotors have over 100K and at least 9 years of age on them and still are amazing on my 3G. So much so that as soon as the rotors warped on the MDX and the 4G TL, they got the racingbrake upgrade.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Fantastic information, than you. I'm a big fan of EBC Redstuff pads, had them on my STi, on the Exige, and it looks like I'll be getting them for the TL.

Nemowuner

Make sure to match the pads and rotors. Same brand I worked at a Honda dealer for many years. Every time my customers would switch up pads and rotors by brand they normally had issues. I always recommend getting the same brand. That usually solves the problems.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Just happened to see the above post, and for future reference must state, no offense,
if that were the case, the Acura/Honda's, or for that matter any vehicle with OEM parts
would never cause a problem, but we all know that's not the case.

TacoBello

not necessarily true.

Mine never moved easily. I had to use a block of wood and C-clamp to push my pistons in. I was confused as on some of my previous cars, they would move easier (still needed effort though). However, if I pushed the brake pedal, they would smoothly move back out (be extremely careful if you do this, as you don't want your piston to pop out!!!).

As far as I can tell, I've never really had brake issues. No uneven pad wear, calipers bolts slide smoothly, no warped rotors, no bleeding issues, etc.

WDPanda

That's definitely not good in the long run because the pads need to float between the piston and rotor. This would require finger force applied to retract otherwise you will run into brake problems. I've replaced too many calipers to take a chance to end up ruining my whole brake setup.

TacoBello

It does float.. it only has to "float" 1/100th of an inch. Again, no uneven pad wear or anything. I've had my rear pads on for 2 years now and I just checked and serviced all calipers about 2 weeks ago. All even wear, all around. I've never had a caliper piston I could push in with just my fingers. Never.

It's a hydraulic system, and by pushing the piston, you're also pushing fluid into the other 3 corners and back into the reservoir. There is plenty of drag to overcome to do that. Me thinks you've been unnecessarily replacing calipers

In 15 years of driving, I've never had to replace a caliper once and never have had issues, besides warped rotors on my Accord (which I bought used and the car had 90k miles on it). One of like dozen cars I've owned.

WDPanda

Well i should say thumbs. Both thumbs. Like your life depended on it.

TacoBello

It could also be that I have the 6MT TL and I'm trying to overcome the resistance of brembo 4 pot calipers up front. Not the same as the auto ones... I dunno.

Jackass

I have never managed to push the piston back in by hand on any of the cars I have owned over the past 25 years. Until this past year or two (kids suck the life and free time out of you), I have always done my own brake maintenance on my cars as well as on friends' vehicles when asked. Every car has always required the use of a small pry bar or C-clamp to evenly push the piston back in. Some cars were smoother/easier than others, but none easy enough to have done it with my fingers.

thoiboi

brakes with finger force huh..

TacoBello

Me thinks Panda has spent a lot of money replacing perfectly fine calipers

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Got to agree, actually never heard of pushing the piston(s) in via fingers/thumbs.
When I do the pads, even loosening the bleeder to expel the "old" fluid, less pressure,
rather then pushing the fluid back into the system, always use a piston tool or a "c" clamp
with the old pad over the piston, and even then there is resistance which is normal.

WDPanda

Calipers are $50 rebuilt. Small investment after having lost a set of rotors and pads a few times for a seized piston. They will seize randomly and if you can't push it in by hand I don't think you really do any work on your cars. But some of you go ahead and save that $50 (which will end up costing a set of brakes and headaches) if that's how you roll with maintenance. Good luck.

truonghthe

I guess you and I are too strong as far as 3g community standard, when I replace the rotors on my Type S I use two finger pushing back the piston in place because there was no way in hell I am paying $50 or more for the 4 pods spade. When I change my pad recently I also use my finger to reset the piston per half I actually using my finger for work instead pressing keyboard.

Jackass

I am a keyboard jockey by trade.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You can always use a screwdriver for leverage to push the pistons in before
removing pads/caliper.
Best advice is to "flush" the system every couple of years to ensure the piston(s)
don't get stuck as condensation forms on the inside and causes the problem.
Most don't flush the system at all and therefore the problem.

There are strips available that one can use to check the condition of the brake fluid.

WDPanda

oh yea I'm not going around rebuilding at every opportunity lol. The TL rear calipers are notorious for seizing up quickly. They are exposed much more to elements in the rear or something it seems. Those 2 are the only ones I recommend changing/rebuilding within 2-3 years. The 6 speed Brembo fronts are very reliable and rarely seize. I just removed a pair of brembos from a buddies 6 speed and the pistons moved in with pinky force. 10-12 years old and still moves in easily. I've done dozens of brake jobs so I'm not new to this. I just would hate to see premium rotors and pads destroyed from not inspecting properly and I'm not poking my head in my wheels everytime to make sure they are wearing evenly. By the time you see symptoms, the brakes are toast.

johnfolk

Just posting my experience with my 2006 TL. Inspected brakes at 100K, still had plenty left on all pads, replaced anyway with middle-of-the-road ceramics from Advanced Auto, no work on rotors. Inspected at 205K, still plenty left on all pads, replaced anyway with Akebono, no work on rotors. Now at 265K, heard right rear squeak, which I thought could not possibly be the tell-tale, because of the mileage I got previously. Ignored and then started to hear the metal on metal. Right-rear inside pad gone, but left-rear pads fine. Replaced rear pads with Wagner quite ceramic. I, too, always have had to use a c-clamp to push pistons in and right-rear was fine/easy, but left-rear got hard when about 3/16" left to push in to be flush which is odd because it was the right-rear that was obviously stuck. Tried to put new pads on left-rear without pushing piston in anymore, but just was too tight...needed another 1/16". I drove to work 60 miles, and discovered left-rear wheel was really hot. So I pumped brakes on way home to exercise them and try to "break" them free. When I got home, measured with IR thermometer...both rear sides measured about 290F but fronts were only about 200F. I wonder if breaking force is "balanced" between front and rear by anti-lock computer....anyone know?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

No. Check the rubber brake line before replacement of caliper.