'04 to '08 front lower control arm bushing failure - please read and look
06-18-2009, 05:06 PM
#163
I am willing to be the clicking is coming from the shock install, not the bushing or the CV, that is if it just happens over bumps.
I went under the car today and noticed that, wure enough, this car was tearing, too. Just starting. You can see it at full droop.
At "neutral" suspension height the tear is not open, but the bushing still sits at a downward angle. Only at full compression does the bushing actually sit perpendicular to the mounting bolt. This seems odd to me for sure.
I bet this bushing design is made to add compliance to the toe as the car goes over bumps. The arm is allowed to go in and out at the front, probably to keep torque-steer in check. Only thing is, it is failing! And if we put a bearing in there, I bet the steering would get really direct and accurate.
Turn in and stability would improve quite a bit. And I bet there would be more torque steer as well. So, what do we all think about that?
I went under the car today and noticed that, wure enough, this car was tearing, too. Just starting. You can see it at full droop.
At "neutral" suspension height the tear is not open, but the bushing still sits at a downward angle. Only at full compression does the bushing actually sit perpendicular to the mounting bolt. This seems odd to me for sure.
I bet this bushing design is made to add compliance to the toe as the car goes over bumps. The arm is allowed to go in and out at the front, probably to keep torque-steer in check. Only thing is, it is failing! And if we put a bearing in there, I bet the steering would get really direct and accurate.
Turn in and stability would improve quite a bit. And I bet there would be more torque steer as well. So, what do we all think about that?
06-19-2009, 03:03 PM
#168
Three Wheelin'
*********
Adjustment Procedure 8041, 8042, 8241, 8610, 8641, 8742 Series
Rebound Adjustment Procedures
Externally Adjustable. These dampers can be adjusted, literally at the turn of a knob, a technique borrowed from Formula-1 racing where KONI dampers have dominated the field for years. One can switch back and forth, in most cases in a matter of seconds, from a comfortable "touring" setting to a more firmer setting for a sporty drive. By means of a knob damping forces can be altered to driving conditions or personal preferences.
REBOUND ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION
Clockwise = Softer
Counter Clockwise = Firmer
COMPRESSION ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION
Clockwise = Firmer
Counter Clockwise = Softer
*********
Adjustment Procedure 8041, 8042, 8241, 8610, 8641, 8742 Series
Rebound Adjustment Procedures
Externally Adjustable. These dampers can be adjusted, literally at the turn of a knob, a technique borrowed from Formula-1 racing where KONI dampers have dominated the field for years. One can switch back and forth, in most cases in a matter of seconds, from a comfortable "touring" setting to a more firmer setting for a sporty drive. By means of a knob damping forces can be altered to driving conditions or personal preferences.
REBOUND ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION
Clockwise = Softer
Counter Clockwise = Firmer
COMPRESSION ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION
Clockwise = Firmer
Counter Clockwise = Softer
*********
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=58
I too have the tears on the bushings... I too have a noticeable click or noise from the front driver side drivetrain area... but I'm inclined to believe that it is not CV related, or suspension related... simply because of my car's history with transmission issues... and the characteristics under which the noise is reproduced (IE shift change)
However, this thread, like others on this forum is proving to be most helpful and informational.
06-19-2009, 04:00 PM
#169
Team Owner
I'm not sure if you're referencing the SP3's... but the Koni's have adjustable compression and rebound.
Also, this explains this a little more detail...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=58
I too have the tears on the bushings... I too have a noticeable click or noise from the front driver side drivetrain area... but I'm inclined to believe that it is not CV related, or suspension related... simply because of my car's history with transmission issues... and the characteristics under which the noise is reproduced (IE shift change)
However, this thread, like others on this forum is proving to be most helpful and informational.
Also, this explains this a little more detail...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=58
I too have the tears on the bushings... I too have a noticeable click or noise from the front driver side drivetrain area... but I'm inclined to believe that it is not CV related, or suspension related... simply because of my car's history with transmission issues... and the characteristics under which the noise is reproduced (IE shift change)
However, this thread, like others on this forum is proving to be most helpful and informational.
06-19-2009, 04:55 PM
#170
Three Wheelin'
Did some digging...
apparently the gentleman I quoted from the TSX forums was incorrect.
Here is the link from Koni:
http://www.koni-na.com/pdf/KONI_Auto_2009.pdf
Our cars use the 8041 Sport shock. This is the same shock used on the TSX as well per the PDF I linked above...
According to Koni:
SERIES 8042, 8242, 8742 REBOUND/COMPRESSION
Adjustable Rebound Adjustment
Insert a pin into the slotted adjuster located at the top eye (see figure). Moving the pin from the left to the right (counter-clockwise) will cause forces to increase. From the minimum or factory position, there are 12 possible sweeps of adjustment (1 sweep=1/4 turn).
Compression Adjustment
Insert a screwdriver into the lower adjustment device (see figure). Turning the screwdriver clockwise will cause forces to increase. From the minimum or factory position, there are 12 possible clicks of adjustment.
Adjustable Rebound Adjustment
Insert a pin into the slotted adjuster located at the top eye (see figure). Moving the pin from the left to the right (counter-clockwise) will cause forces to increase. From the minimum or factory position, there are 12 possible sweeps of adjustment (1 sweep=1/4 turn).
Compression Adjustment
Insert a screwdriver into the lower adjustment device (see figure). Turning the screwdriver clockwise will cause forces to increase. From the minimum or factory position, there are 12 possible clicks of adjustment.
SERIES 8010, 8041, 8210, 8241, 8610, 8641, 8710, 8741, 8742
1. Take the adjustment knob which is supplied and fit it to the top of the damper
2. To adjust the damping force, the knob has to be turned in the direction of the arrow for increasing damping, and to decrease in the opposite direction. If you feel resistance do not use force, as the damper is in its end position
3. After adjustment remove the adjusting knob in order to prevent possible damage of the bonnet
1. Take the adjustment knob which is supplied and fit it to the top of the damper
2. To adjust the damping force, the knob has to be turned in the direction of the arrow for increasing damping, and to decrease in the opposite direction. If you feel resistance do not use force, as the damper is in its end position
3. After adjustment remove the adjusting knob in order to prevent possible damage of the bonnet
Interesting enough, it appears as if the Koni 28 series might fit our car.
hmmm
Anyway, I'm sorry for the thread derailment... this thread is about the lower control arm bushing, not koni's shocks.
06-19-2009, 06:21 PM
#172
Team Owner
Now I'm really confused....
http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.cfm
I'm going to contact Koni directly...
http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.cfm
I'm going to contact Koni directly...
When I installed the a-spec springs the ride was too firm, I mean artificially firm. I adjusted them last night but before I did that I took some corners and did a lot of sharp side to side movements. Then I adjusted full soft according to the knob which was clockwise and took it for a spin doing the same thing. I settled on 1/2 turn from full clockwise.
The weird thing was I wasn't getting any extra body roll when I went to the supposed soft setting. If anything it seemed like less roll but I knew that was impossible.
Maybe I ended up with a little more compression and less rebound. I know one thing for sure, it sticks to the road better over bumps during cornering now. On top of that the ride is so much nicer.
I'm very interested to hear what you find out. Thanks for taking the time to find out!
06-26-2009, 06:55 PM
#174
ahh - major update. i guess i could not see them, but i took it in for an alignment after i installed the a-spec suspension because the front tires were showing wear on the inside like too much negative camber. well, it turns out the bushings on the front of the lower control arm (they call them compliance bushings) were both shot. they replaced both under warranty and gave me a 4 wheel alignment for no charge. i have 26,000 miles. they pressed out the old bushing and pressed in new ones. the tech said that they appear to be the same design.
06-26-2009, 11:36 PM
#175
Hmmm...were you getting vibrations at all...like at certain rpm's while accelerating?! I know this might affect auto's different than manuals but I'm curious. It's driving me crazy and if this is the issue...then fantastic...I can have it fixed!
06-27-2009, 08:26 AM
#178
no. all i noticed was the wear from negative camber. i can't believe that some folks are getting turned away on this failure. japanese engineers ABSOLUTELY HATE to make a mistake, so these things just drive them insane. i can scan my repair paperwork for people if you need that to convince your dealership.
06-28-2009, 07:41 PM
#181
You can purchase just the bushings only...
I had a shop press the old ones out and put in the new ones..everything was around $125..I also installed the type-s shock bushings (the ones that go in the top hat of the shock) and man it was a much more responsive front end...my
I had a shop press the old ones out and put in the new ones..everything was around $125..I also installed the type-s shock bushings (the ones that go in the top hat of the shock) and man it was a much more responsive front end...my
06-29-2009, 08:30 AM
#185
Safety Car
when the parts go back for warranty, they put them to test and see where they went wrong. thats y they ask for the arm....maybe they think somethings wrong with the arm...who knows. but for them to replace the whole thing is stupid if u ask me, for a part thats pressed in n out easily and almost every dealer ive been to has a hand press.
but i have seen car parts that once the bushing or bearing is pressed out the hole is warped and the new bushing cant be pressed in...maybe they are trying to prevent that.
but i have seen car parts that once the bushing or bearing is pressed out the hole is warped and the new bushing cant be pressed in...maybe they are trying to prevent that.
06-29-2009, 10:16 AM
#188
Safety Car
the bushing is 14$ prob 35 for both with shipping if u order...... and if they did rent a handpress it wouild be cool but i dont think they do. if they do make sure u mark points on the old bushings and arms and when you go to press the new ones line up your points....ive seen a few bad presses that you dont wanna b near when the car is standing on its wheels.
06-29-2009, 11:37 AM
#189
ok...so I gather from your post that it's a little more complex and dangerous than I thought.
I just want to find a solution...and I don't mind paying, but not when there's a heavy chance to have the same fail immediately.
I just want to find a solution...and I don't mind paying, but not when there's a heavy chance to have the same fail immediately.
06-29-2009, 12:39 PM
#191
i don't think you'll get it in with a hand press. you need a decent shop press, and something like a race driver set to set against it to push it in with even pressure. getting old one out is easy. all you have to do if the press does not work is cut the lip off one side and the push from that side.
06-29-2009, 12:42 PM
#192
it is not complex or dangerous. remove the lower arm. note the position of the marks on the bushing and the arm, so that you install the new one in the correct orientation. set it up on a shop press, push it out, and push the new one in. it is really quite easy. then reinstall the lower arm. if i had to guess from previous experiences, the hardest part is probably getting the lower arm off the lower ball joint without destroying the ball joint threads or boot.
06-29-2009, 12:47 PM
#193
^^^Hmmm....and in installing suspension parts, I have to say that I'm not the most tactful person when it comes to being gentle. ha ha...maybe with a second jack to take pressure off it'll come off easily. Or I can see how much the acura tech friend I've made will charge me to change them.
I really just wanted to know that this will stop my problem of shimmying for good!
I really just wanted to know that this will stop my problem of shimmying for good!
06-29-2009, 01:38 PM
#194
Safety Car
yea i have to agree the hardest part is not destroying that piece of shit ball joint! i cant begin to tell you guys how many times ive seen it bent and bent it myself.
06-29-2009, 01:54 PM
#195
Does any one of you guys that know about this stuff think this is a plausible cause for my shimmying problem?
Only really noticeable around 2500RPM and it's worse in 2nd gear but always present. I already had the driver side halfaxle changed at the recommendation of the acura shop foreman but it didn't fix it.
Please let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree here!
Only really noticeable around 2500RPM and it's worse in 2nd gear but always present. I already had the driver side halfaxle changed at the recommendation of the acura shop foreman but it didn't fix it.
Please let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree here!
06-29-2009, 02:22 PM
#196
Safety Car
could be motor mounts. but u need to take them apart or check the sensor on the honda computer to see pressure rates when gears are engaged.
have your pulleys checked including your crank pulley.
check the other axles by turning all the way and accelerating a lil bit if they make cracking noises or popping its time for new ones.
check the tranny mounts upper n lower.
check your rim balance if the shimmy occurs below 60mph
check your rims for bends if the shimmy occurs over 60mph
have your pulleys checked including your crank pulley.
check the other axles by turning all the way and accelerating a lil bit if they make cracking noises or popping its time for new ones.
check the tranny mounts upper n lower.
check your rim balance if the shimmy occurs below 60mph
check your rims for bends if the shimmy occurs over 60mph
07-07-2009, 11:37 AM
#199
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my car is hard to control on a uneven pavement, everytime i hit a bumpy road, steering wheel just goes outta control, its like its got a mind of its own turning left n right, i have to hold on to it real tight to get back in control, has anyone experience this?
