friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

first of all i did try playing along , no where close to right though



and second in this photo




that would be awesome if those solenoids did mount to the nozzle to minimize any time delayed issues (but probably not though )

Inaccurate

- - - - - - - - - - - - UPDATE - - - - - - - -
RPM WINDOW & TACH ADAPTER








I got the RPM Window installed (and wired up). Not much to talk about regarding it. The more interesting aspect to this is the Tach Adapter (pictured above).

Our TL has no place to get a tach signal from. The oem tachometer obviously receives a signal. However, that signal for the oem tach is not suitable for aftermarket devices such as aftermarket tachs, shift lights, rpm windows, nitrous controllers, etc.

Fortunately, many newer cars also lack proper tach signals. Thus, AutoMeter (click here) and MSD (click here) make an electronic device to solve this problem. It is called a Tach Adapter.

Thanks to Acurazine member "jptl04" (see link below), I had a head-start on how to wire the Tach Adapter to our TL.

First AutoMeter shift light install on a MT TL-S (with pics) (click here)


However, I did not want to splice into every coil wire if I could avoid it. So, I did some research with the TL Service Manual. I discovered that I could splice just one wire under the dash instead of splicing six wires under the hood.








In the previously mentioned thread (click here), it is true that the Tach Adapter must be spliced into all six coils. However as you can see from the wiring diagram for our TL, we can splice into the wire before it branches out into six separate leads.





DIY FOR INSTALLING A TACH ADAPTER







In pic above - Remove the passenger-side console panels to gain access to the ECU area. We will *not* be touching any ECU wires. However, the wire that we do need is located next to the ecu wires.

The wiring harness (and white connector) is actually coming from the fuse panel from the driver-side. In the pics, the harness looks like it is a part of the ecu harnesses. But, it is not a part of the ecu harnesses. It just is routed along the same area.








In pic above - Locate the Black wire with a White strip (Blk/Wht). There is only one wire that is Blk/Wht in the white plastic connector block. However, there are other Blk/Wht wires in the large bundle that it merges into. So, make your splice where it is shown in my pic above, and you will be okay.








In pic above - Soldier the wires from the Tach Adapter to the spliced Blk/Wht wire. Be sure to insulate the connections with shrink tubing to prevent a short-to-ground.

Be sure to soldier these wires. Do not just twist them together. If the connections are lost or unreliable, the engine will not run.







In pic above - Tidy up your work by wrapping/taping the loose wires to the main fat harness.

By the way, the tach signal generated by the Tach Adapter is a true 6-cylinder signal. That is, when you send this signal to other devices (such as aftermarket tachs, shift lights, rpm windows, nitrous controllers, etc.), you will configure that device for a 6-cylinder signal.





PARTS LIST & PRICES







MSD RPM Window Switch PN# 8956 = $81 (click here)
MSD RPM Modules (3000 Range) for Window Switch PN# 87431 = $27 (click here)
MSD RPM Modules (6000 Range) for Window Switch PN# 8746 = $28 (click here)
MSD Tach Driver PN# 8913 = $85 (click here)





SMALL UPDATE ON BACKFIRE PANEL







As a side note, I revised the Burst Panel. I removed the plastic nuts. Going with all stand-off studs. Later, I plan to redo the sealant using the Copper RTV.

answersto?s

This is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen on a forum... period. Thanks for taking the time to do this!

STL-typeS

Awesome write up, ive done the weight reduction tips and deff love the results i have a question for you tho inaccurate, i noticed you have straight pipes instead of cats, ive been thinking about doing this but im afraid of the high pitch rasp that hondas are famous anyway to get to the point, is the extra noise worth the extra HP?? JW your opinion, i envy your tl its amazing

Inaccurate

STL-typeS,

It all depends on each person. Some people are more sensitive to the loudness and rasp than other people. Below are some links to help you to decide.

Introducing RV6 V3 Precat Deletes Taking Deposits (click here)
Taming the beast! PCD Rasp (videos posted) (click here)
RV6 V2 Precat Delete Interest (click here)
Pre-cats and low end torque (click here)
RV6 (Richie) PreCats **Groupbuy** (click here)
Precat-deletes V2 install (click here)
RV6 V2 Precat Delete (click here)
Precat Deletes + Upgraded Jpipe + No 3rd Cat + Stock Exhaust = very sexy exhaust note (click here)
E-106: Official Pre Cat Delete HOW TO DIY (click here)
Precat Deletes (click here)

Escape

Excellent information!

I am currently in the process of researching a nitrous/methanol system for my Turbocharged Jeep XRT8 and happened on this thread so I had to register. Hope you don't mind me being here asking questions.

I do have a few questions for you and am looking forward to your solutions/progress on this setup.

1. What fuel pressure safety switch (FPSS) will you be using that is compatiable with the Meth and it's pressure?

2. I am wondering what are the exact specs (flow rate, orifice size, magnet size, cost, ect) of your custom ordered for Methanol NX solenoid?

3. Jetting of your system on the Nitrous and Methanol side.

4. I see you are running dual solenoids but have you thought about a filter for the Meth right before the pump as an extra safety measure?

Just a thought but why not use a large blow-off valve/wastegate instead of creating a custom burst panel?

Thanks,
Escape

libert69

iTrader: (7)

are we up and running yet???

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

build link?, or at least some pics....

phee

iTrader: (5)

hows it goin?

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I just saw you backed out of this project. What happened?

Escape

^x2

Inaccurate

Please give me a day or two to compose an explanation. It is difficult to communicate my reason in such a way that others will be able to understand. I will give it my best shot to explain... however, I expect very few people (perhaps no one except myself) to really understand my feelings.

But in a nutshell, I lost interest in it.

I hate cars

I'm very sorry to hear that but I fully understand. I've been there before. I turned to the audio side of things, I just completed my first sound quality system and haven't driven the car hard in a very long time. I got utterly tired and defeated in the ATF threads, just don't have the will anymore.

I'm not trying to rush you, feel free to answer at any time but have you lost interest in just the nitrous project or the TL as a whole? I was thinking over the past few days that you haven't posted in a long time. I hope everything else is ok outside of acurazine.

Escape

Bummer, I was anxiously awaiting your results as I am going to be using meth as the fuel in my nitrous setup also.

What are you planning on doing with all the parts you have for this setup? I may be interested in some of them as I am currently gathering the needed pieces.

Inaccurate

Hi Escape,

I am glad to see that you are still around Acurazine. I have been feeling bad for a long time for not answering your questions. Now that I know you are still around, here is my chance to make amends -

1. What fuel pressure safety switch (FPSS) will you be using that is compatiable with the Meth and it's pressure?

I was going to use this one (see below). I had already purchased it. Feels like a quality piece.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/adj...-switch-1.html

Plus, I was checking www.mcmaster.com for other ones too.

Also, regarding compatiable - - - This internet link will become your best friend (see link below)

http://www.coleparmer.com/TechInfo/ChemComp.asp


2. I am wondering what are the exact specs (flow rate, orifice size, magnet size, cost, ect) of your custom ordered for Methanol NX solenoid?

My fuel solenoids were custom ordered from NX to have magnets (and wires) from a nitrous solenoid installed. NX is very familiar with this request to add a nitrous magnet to a fuel solenoid.

Order the 15202L Methanol Soleniod and HAVE MAGNET FROM A 15300L ADDED.

The typical NX fuel solenoid is only able to reliably open against 50 psi. Whereas, my methanol pump operates at 200 psi. Thus, a typical NX fuel solenoid would not be able to open against the 200 psi. The solution is to use the much more powerful magnet from a nitrous solenoid to operate my fuel solenoids.

Also remembe that the methanol is at 200 PSI. So a normal orifice for gasoline will probably automatically flow enough meth. You need approx double the flow rate of meth than gasoline. But, the meth is at a MUCH higher head pressure, which automatically will double (at least) the flow rate with the same given orifice size.

3. Jetting of your system on the Nitrous and Methanol side.

Two words..... Flow Bench.

Get a stop watch. Get a quality digital scale.

See how much meth will flow within a given time frame with a given fuel jet,. Convert that amount into Lb/min.

Weigh your nitrous bottle. With a given nitrous jet, open the nitrous solenoid for a given time (ex: 30 seconds via stop watch). Wiegh the bottle again. Convert this into Lb/min.

Your are targeting a ratio of 2.5:1 Nitrous to METHANOL ratio by weight.

Methanol density = 6.6 Lbs/gal
Nitrous density = 5.2 Lbs/gal at 86 F degrees


http://www.o2-technology.com/tech/Ni...lChemistry.pdf
229 cc's/10sec/100hp METHNOL
130 Lbs/hr (this is weight) METHANOL for 100-hp = 19.7 gal/hr = 0.33 gal/min (this is volume) = 1250 ml/min injector
300 Lbs/hr (this is wieght) NITROUS for 100-hp = 60 gal/hr = 1.0 gal/min (this is volume) = #47 Jet



For a 100-Shot =

23.5 gal/hr
0.392 gal/min
1497 ml/min injector

HP = (lb/min) x 20
Seconds = (Lbs * 1200) / HP
Note: Only 50% of the bottle is usable before head pressure drops quickly.




To convert lbs/hr fuel flow to cc/minute, multiply lbs/hr by 10.5092





4. I see you are running dual solenoids but have you thought about a filter for the Meth right before the pump as an extra safety measure?

TWO NITROUS SOLENOIDS IN SERIES

By running two nitrous solenoids in series, I will have great insurance against accidental nitrous leakage into the engine. This type of leakage is another common cause of intake backfires. Nitrous leaking past the solenoid can easily happen if trash/debris gets stuck under the seat of the solenoid. Although a filter can stop debris, the filter can not prevent debris after the nitrous has past the filter, heading toward the solenoid. Pieces of the Teflon liner in the braided hose and/or threading debris can now get into the solenoid and cause it to stick open. Even metal from the solenoid itself can flake off and lodge under the seat. No filter can prevent that failure.

Another benefit of running dual solenoids in series is insurance against uncontrolled flow of nitrous into the engine. A single solenoid has the potential of failing to close after the electrical current has been stopped. There are many reports on nitrous solenoids having a failure in the open position. That is, the solenoid can become stuck open during usage. This would be a ugly failure mode. A solenoid becoming stuck in the open position does not happen frequently, but frequently enough to cause worry if you are looking to designed the safest system possible.

Here is an excellent thread (click here) that discusses the usage of dual solenoids in series.

Just a thought but why not use a large blow-off valve/wastegate instead of creating a custom burst panel?

Backfire Burst Panels are used by a few nitrous or supercharger users. Thus, there are a few commercial burst panels on the market. However to me, the biggest problem with most commercial burst panels is that they offer too little of an opening. All burst panels use springs to hold the panel in a normally closed position. However, the typical spring reaches coil-bind at approx half of the springs full length. When the length of the spring (at coil bind) is subtracted from the overall travel distance, the allowable opening is very inadequate to vent the explosive force in my opinion.

When designing my panel, I wanted my panel to have at least one inch of travel. That is, I wanted the panel to be able to rise above the manifold at least one inch during a backfire. Combined with the huge perimeter distance and the 1 inch of lift (actually 1-1/4" with the bumpers compressed), my backfire panel has a huge area to quickly vent the explosive force.

Inaccurate

NOTE - This is written in a fashion so that the most relevant material is at the beginning. Not so much relevant as you continue reading. When you get bored, hit the "Back" button to end the pain.


CANCELLATION NOTICE


I have cancelled the NMI project. Basically, I lost interest in it. I found myself looking at it as a burden instead of fun. And eventually, I began to questioned if I should continue.

I had no logical reasoning to cancel. The NMI is a solid concept in my opinion. The cancellation was based upon a feeling (emotional) versus a logical reason. As days and weeks went by, I began to have more and more doubts and lack of motivation with continuing the project. I reached the point where I forced myself to make a decision..... plus I had just placed a $500 order for a NX Controller, which was on back-order. To help me to decide, I took all of the NMI stuff off of the car (before it was completed) to see how I would feel. Afterward, I felt like a burden was removed from me. So, that was my answer to if I should had continued with it. I called NX the next day to cancel my $500 order, which thankfully was still on back-order.

After the confirmation that I was heading in the right direction, I had returned the solenoids (never had been installed) to NX for a full refund (great customer service). I had placed an advertisement on the Yellow Bullet forum to sell (via local pickup) my full mother bottle and the two 10-Lb bottles. So, I recouped a big chunk of my expenses.



PLAYING SIGMUND FREUD


I started viewing the NMI project as an enemy to the TL Diet project. I installed the methanol tank and put in a half gallon of isopropyl alcohol for a long-term leak test. I emotionally struggled with the fact that I added weight to my car. I mounted the empty nitrous bottle in the car. Again, trying to ignore the weight. I mounted the heavy-ass pump and again tried to ignore the weight. Then came the time to add miles of heavy-gauge wiring (pun very much intended).... and this is when I really got upset and it was the "straw that broke the camel's back".

In addition to the weight aspect, I began to miss the sleeper appearance of my car to humiliate my opponents. The gauges on the A-column was cramping my style. I want my opponents to think that they ran against a plain-jane four-door sedan. I don't want them thinking that they ran against a heavily modded import car. On the other hand, the smell and sound of the PCD might tip them off that something is up.

I removed all aftermarket gauges from my car except for the knock monitor. However, I did relocate the knock monitor to a position where it is not noticeable from the outside (moved it to where the oem radio would be positioned).

Then there was the nagging concern that I might hurt the engine. In spite of Rodney proving that the oem motor can handle a lot of torque, I am not convinced. Honda built the J32 with the concept of just enough strength to get the job done. It is not over-built from an engineering perspective. Lightweight rods and lightweight pistons. This is my daily driver and I don't want to harm it.

Along the same lines, I have babied my engine well since it was new. Frequent oil changes with expensive oil. Proper warm-up procedure. I went to great effort to properly break-in the motor when the car was new by doing periodic wot to properly seal the rings. And, I did have concerns that the nitrous usage (over time) would "dog out" the motor by causing excessive wear and accumulated damage.

Then there was the nagging concern of maybe not being able to use much nitrous in 2nd gear (5AT) due to limited traction. So, this leaves only 3rd gear for a full nitrous boost. That is a problem for me. I only race from 0-100 MPH as a personal rule that I stick to rigidly. The vast majority of my races are in the range of 10-80 MPH range. I avoid races that begin at 60 MPH or above. So, my races are nearly over by the time I get into 3rd gear. Just how useful would the NMI be to me?



WHERE DOES YOUR HEART LAY


Thru this NMI project, I found that my true love lays with the TL Diet. Why should I sacrifice something that I enjoy every moment of driving (literally true) for something that I can enjoy once per month for 5 seconds?

I really LOVE my lightweight car.... the way it handles, brakes, and accelerates in everyday driving. It is plenty fast to beat (or tie) 99% of the cars during my daily commutes. I just raced a brand new Dodge Challenger that thought he was badass (by the way he was driving). We did a 20-100 mph race. We were dead tied from start to finish when I terminated the contest at 100 mph. The NMI would had been nice to have me pull ahead..... But not at the expense of packing all of that weight for all the other times besides racing. I will just settle on a "tie" instead of a "win". I rather have the nimbleness instead of beating EVERYTHING on the road.



THE SILVER LINING TO A DARK CLOUD


In retrospect, many good things came from my NMI attempt.

I realized that my true love is having a lightweight car. This will help me with picking a replacement car when the time comes (years down the road).

It made me remove items from my car (as part of the TL Diet) that I probably would never had gotten around to doing.

It made me remove the oem PCV system and utilize a down-draft tube instead.

It made me switch to using RedLine Racing ATF.

It made me relocate my IAT sensor to prevent the sensor from getting hot. And to remove the oem knock sensor. Thus, my car is always receiving the most ignition timing possible from the tuning map. As a result of this and my extensive cooling mods, my car is totally immune from heat soak, even with the MID at 103*.

I love the phenomenal low-end grunt that the car has due to the light weight and full timing map. I enjoy giving the car the lightest throttle possible and still staying ahead of other traffic as we pull away from a red light. The tach swings from 1500 to 2200 to 1500 as it shifts thru the gears..... while keeping pace with or pulling ahead of other cars in the pack. This includes when the weather is 101* and being completely heat soaked. I love that feeling of low rpm power.

Often, I enjoy making my complete daily commute (70 miles round trip) thru Houston's rush hour traffic without ever exceeding 2500 RPM. And this includes a few excursions to 90 MPH.



MOVING FORWARD




NOTE - THIS IS NOT ME IN THE PIC. The pic is from the manufacturer web site.

Going forward in the future, I will focus on the few remaining items on my To-Do list for the TL Diet (you can expect an update soon). To satisfy my needs to tinker and tweak stuff, I have been devoting more time to my other hobby which is RC (Remote Control) airplanes. I fly and build Telemasters, which is a large RC plane. I fly both the 6-foot and 8-foot wingspan versions (nothing smaller). It is a true adrenalin rush to fly these large things... especially knowing that you have a lot of time and money tied-up into it if it crashes or flies away from you. I plan to do FPV (First Person Viewing) too soon with the plane. The FPV is where you have a small video camera on the plane and watch the output on a small LCD screen on the ground in real-time. It gives a sensation like you are really in the plane flying it. So, flying my RC plane helps with my need for getting an adrenalin rush... sometimes too much where my hands are shaking afterwards (whoop! and a big smile).

Longer-term car-related things to keep me busy is to continue researching for a replacement car for when the time comes (hopefully not for a few more years). I learned from my past car-buying experience to always be ready to pull-the-trigger for my next car purchase. When I purchased my current car (my 2006 TL), it came as a huge surprise that I was getting a new car. I had literally just one day to decide what my next car was going to be. The wife wrecked my previous car at the time (1992 Acura Legend Coupe) and the insurance company totaled it. The wife says "we are going to purchase a replacement car for you tomorrow". What????? At the time, I was not into car modding. So, I picked something that was a direct replacement to what I had, which translated into the TL. Now that I am into car modding, I want my next car to be something that I can enjoy by stripping it and modding it. If I had to pull the trigger today, it would be a used EVO.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Great piece of writing man. It was a huge undertaking and your efforts and hard work are second to none! Looking forward to future projects and as a fellow flyer (not RC tho) I definitely can relate to the adrenaline rush it brings!

Good Luck!

pohljm

Good luck Innacurate! I think you made the right decision, but it would have been nice to see someone incorporate the NMI in such a proffessional manner. I just wanted to see what would happen when done properly. I agree it was a tremendous effort and expense for just a few seconds of euphoria! Looking forward to your next exploits! keep them coming! The RC bug is a tough one to shake as well. just dont venture into the large scale helo's that scares the crap outta me!

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

bump one of my favorite threads