Twin Turbo 5AT TL Build
11-28-2010, 10:53 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Twin Turbo 5AT TL Build
Hello,
My name is Derek Robinson. I operate a performance shop in Central PA called "Innovative MotorWorks" (www.innovative-motorworks.com).
I purchased my 2005 NBP 5AT TL in July of 2009, because I wanted a second car to balance out the lack of "comfort" that my other car has. :P
Long-story short, I have a mental disorder; one that makes me believe everything I own must be modified to be made faster. This disorder has resulted in a 520+whp K20-powered, T67-charged Civic that burns E85, and now it has caused an idea to grow in my mind for a while concerning my TL.
Over the past year I have seen a handful of turbo TL builds on this very site (I don't post often, but I lurk), and most recently, one user in specific's turbo 5AT project has definitely peaked my interest.
So, I finally decided to bite the bullet.
A good friend of mine had a set of Garrett GT28R turbochargers left over from a recent upgrade on his personal twin turbo G35 to GT3071's, and offered them both to me at the deal of a lifetime.
These turbochargers move enough air to produce roughly 300-325hp each, feature a small frame, ball-bearing center sections, and compact internal wastegates.
The plan is as follows:
- Mount each turbocharger almost immediately off each cylinder head with my own custom stainless TIG-welded adapters
- Fabricate my own custom T304 stainless 2.5" downpipes, converging together right before the entrance to the OEM exhaust (replacing the last catalyst)
- Fabricate my own custom 2.25" aluminum hot side charge piping to twin small air-to-air Garrett cores that will be mounted snugly behind the lower bumper openings
- Run the outlets of each intercooler as 2.25" aluminum piping and converge both to a single 2.75" up to the throttle body
The goal of this project is to boost power output to a solid 350whp, using the factory exhaust/mufflers. The response of the small twin GT28's should be capable of making the auto J32 feel like a much larger engine during mid-throttle, low-RPM situations.
Tuning will be done in-house, utilizing the AEM FIC.
I will also be doing a before/after comparison of the gains on my DynaPack Evolution 3000.
Now, I just need to source some flanges for the cylinder heads, and I'll be in business. This is ideally going to be a couple month-long process, so updates will likely be every couple weeks, and shooting for a Spring completion. I will be documenting all fabrication and install details here as they develop.
Last, but not least, here is my beater.
Thanks for viewing!
- Derek
My name is Derek Robinson. I operate a performance shop in Central PA called "Innovative MotorWorks" (www.innovative-motorworks.com).
I purchased my 2005 NBP 5AT TL in July of 2009, because I wanted a second car to balance out the lack of "comfort" that my other car has. :P
Long-story short, I have a mental disorder; one that makes me believe everything I own must be modified to be made faster. This disorder has resulted in a 520+whp K20-powered, T67-charged Civic that burns E85, and now it has caused an idea to grow in my mind for a while concerning my TL.
Over the past year I have seen a handful of turbo TL builds on this very site (I don't post often, but I lurk), and most recently, one user in specific's turbo 5AT project has definitely peaked my interest.
So, I finally decided to bite the bullet.
A good friend of mine had a set of Garrett GT28R turbochargers left over from a recent upgrade on his personal twin turbo G35 to GT3071's, and offered them both to me at the deal of a lifetime.
These turbochargers move enough air to produce roughly 300-325hp each, feature a small frame, ball-bearing center sections, and compact internal wastegates.
The plan is as follows:
- Mount each turbocharger almost immediately off each cylinder head with my own custom stainless TIG-welded adapters
- Fabricate my own custom T304 stainless 2.5" downpipes, converging together right before the entrance to the OEM exhaust (replacing the last catalyst)
- Fabricate my own custom 2.25" aluminum hot side charge piping to twin small air-to-air Garrett cores that will be mounted snugly behind the lower bumper openings
- Run the outlets of each intercooler as 2.25" aluminum piping and converge both to a single 2.75" up to the throttle body
The goal of this project is to boost power output to a solid 350whp, using the factory exhaust/mufflers. The response of the small twin GT28's should be capable of making the auto J32 feel like a much larger engine during mid-throttle, low-RPM situations.
Tuning will be done in-house, utilizing the AEM FIC.
I will also be doing a before/after comparison of the gains on my DynaPack Evolution 3000.
Now, I just need to source some flanges for the cylinder heads, and I'll be in business. This is ideally going to be a couple month-long process, so updates will likely be every couple weeks, and shooting for a Spring completion. I will be documenting all fabrication and install details here as they develop.
Last, but not least, here is my beater.
Thanks for viewing!
- Derek
Can't wait for the final product. Good luck on your project.
11-28-2010, 11:23 PM
#4
If you're aiming for 350whp, that should be more than capable of 1 turbo. I'm not even sure there is enough room for 2 turbos anyways; we seemed to have "trouble" years back just figuring out where to stick one.
subscribed
11-28-2010, 11:40 PM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
The advantage of two small turbochargers is just that -response. These little guys will light up immediately, and won't work hard at all.
As far as space goes, this has already been done with some newer Accords, so I don't think it will be too bad. I did some preliminary measurements a couple days ago, and it seem that it will be a tight squeeze out back, but the front turbo will have plenty of room once the radiator/condenser fans are moved to the front (which will cut efficiency a tad, but that's something I can live with).
- Derek
11-28-2010, 11:41 PM
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Trending Topics
11-28-2010, 11:41 PM
#8
Safety Car
11-28-2010, 11:43 PM
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thank you very much. Looks like I'll be making the adapters sooner than later.
- Derek
11-28-2010, 11:45 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Wow! I will watch this thread non stop once you start the build. The space will be very tight for the rear bank but i am sure you can figure it out! Good luck!
11-29-2010, 12:43 AM
#13
Wow.. lately the 3G TL's aftermarket support for performance has turned into civic town.. and I totally mean that in a good way. For the longest the only option that was available to us was superchargers, then finally the revolutionary break through with a turbo.. and now possibly twin turbos! Amazing!
11-29-2010, 07:11 AM
#15
Intermediate
Thread Starter
11-29-2010, 07:24 AM
#17
Intermediate
Thread Starter
- Derek
11-29-2010, 04:41 PM
#20
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
good luck bro!! i have a 03 accord with 3.2 liter from 3rd gen tl built up to a 3.6 liter and the tl 6-speed swap and i will be getting my custom twin turbo installed this winter as well 
nice choice of turbo's that is the same size im using . I will be going for a solid 500whp+ though with my twin turbo build. very nice bud keep us posted will be nice to have 2 twin turboed j-series in PA!!!
nice choice of turbo's that is the same size im using . I will be going for a solid 500whp+ though with my twin turbo build. very nice bud keep us posted will be nice to have 2 twin turboed j-series in PA!!!
11-29-2010, 05:12 PM
#24
J36Twingt28r's,nextgt30r
Wow.. lately the 3G TL's aftermarket support for performance has turned into civic town.. and I totally mean that in a good way. For the longest the only option that was available to us was superchargers, then finally the revolutionary break through with a turbo.. and now possibly twin turbos! Amazing!
11-29-2010, 05:22 PM
#25
twin turbo kit was avaliable before J&R single turbo was (by NVA-AV6), it just took me till this month to gather all the parts for it. If anyone is interested in a twin turbo kit, since Derek said he prob won't mass produce, paul(NVA-AV6) makes a twin turbo kit like this with these same turbos and is made for customers based on demand. he has extensive experience also tuning and building up almost every j-series engine so whatever platform u have he can twin charge it and tune it right.
11-29-2010, 08:24 PM
#29
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I think I'll be using schedule 10 for the small transition from the head flange to the T25 flange.
I got the exhaust housings separated from the CHRA's tonight, and will run them over to the coating shop tomorrow. Also throwing around the idea of fabricating custom heat shields for each exhaust housing to give it an OEM touch.
- Derek
11-29-2010, 10:03 PM
#30
Former Sponsor
Even better!
I think I'll be using schedule 10 for the small transition from the head flange to the T25 flange.
I got the exhaust housings separated from the CHRA's tonight, and will run them over to the coating shop tomorrow. Also throwing around the idea of fabricating custom heat shields for each exhaust housing to give it an OEM touch.
- Derek
I think I'll be using schedule 10 for the small transition from the head flange to the T25 flange.
I got the exhaust housings separated from the CHRA's tonight, and will run them over to the coating shop tomorrow. Also throwing around the idea of fabricating custom heat shields for each exhaust housing to give it an OEM touch.
- Derek
11-30-2010, 12:27 AM
#32
Finally, another turbo 5AT. Unfortunately my car just went out of commission today. Long story short, misfires at idle, compression test done, cylinder 6 had ZERO. Looking at a cracked rignland.
Dyno last week made 408 wheels at 10.2psi. I regularly see 11+ on the street. Close to 500 crank. Use those numbers for guidance if you dont plan on upgrading the internals. Looks like the pistons are the weak link but the rods could be right behind that so who knows. I think Ill be getting a custom set of pistons.
Most importantly, do have any plans to upgrade the internals of the trans? Higher stall converter? Stronger clutches?
If you have been following the turbo thread youll see that my trans is holding up fine with a cooler and amsoil type F fluid. Please make sure to use redline or amsoil Type F atf.
Some other issues youll face are the inability to build boost off the line. There was an idea thrown out there about removing the brake pedal position switch from the pedal and having something continuously pressing the button. I did not get around to trying this.
Have you seen the issue with my car in 2nd gear while in auto mode under full boost? The trans will not shift to 3rd and bounces off the rev limiter. SS mode must be used in order to achieve the shift. If you have this problem, hopefully you can figure out why it happens.
With a higher setting for the waste gate crack pressure on a boost controller you will have no problems with mid range power with a larger single like I have. I really dont suffer from no low-end power. Im building boost by 2500
Good luck to you. Keep this thread updated as much as possible.
Dyno last week made 408 wheels at 10.2psi. I regularly see 11+ on the street. Close to 500 crank. Use those numbers for guidance if you dont plan on upgrading the internals. Looks like the pistons are the weak link but the rods could be right behind that so who knows. I think Ill be getting a custom set of pistons.
Most importantly, do have any plans to upgrade the internals of the trans? Higher stall converter? Stronger clutches?
If you have been following the turbo thread youll see that my trans is holding up fine with a cooler and amsoil type F fluid. Please make sure to use redline or amsoil Type F atf.
Some other issues youll face are the inability to build boost off the line. There was an idea thrown out there about removing the brake pedal position switch from the pedal and having something continuously pressing the button. I did not get around to trying this.
Have you seen the issue with my car in 2nd gear while in auto mode under full boost? The trans will not shift to 3rd and bounces off the rev limiter. SS mode must be used in order to achieve the shift. If you have this problem, hopefully you can figure out why it happens.
With a higher setting for the waste gate crack pressure on a boost controller you will have no problems with mid range power with a larger single like I have. I really dont suffer from no low-end power. Im building boost by 2500
Good luck to you. Keep this thread updated as much as possible.
11-30-2010, 06:25 PM
#35
Finally, another turbo 5AT. Unfortunately my car just went out of commission today. Long story short, misfires at idle, compression test done, cylinder 6 had ZERO. Looking at a cracked rignland.
Dyno last week made 408 wheels at 10.2psi. I regularly see 11+ on the street. Close to 500 crank. Use those numbers for guidance if you dont plan on upgrading the internals. Looks like the pistons are the weak link but the rods could be right behind that so who knows. I think Ill be getting a custom set of pistons.
Most importantly, do have any plans to upgrade the internals of the trans? Higher stall converter? Stronger clutches?
If you have been following the turbo thread youll see that my trans is holding up fine with a cooler and amsoil type F fluid. Please make sure to use redline or amsoil Type F atf.
Some other issues youll face are the inability to build boost off the line. There was an idea thrown out there about removing the brake pedal position switch from the pedal and having something continuously pressing the button. I did not get around to trying this.
Have you seen the issue with my car in 2nd gear while in auto mode under full boost? The trans will not shift to 3rd and bounces off the rev limiter. SS mode must be used in order to achieve the shift. If you have this problem, hopefully you can figure out why it happens.
With a higher setting for the waste gate crack pressure on a boost controller you will have no problems with mid range power with a larger single like I have. I really dont suffer from no low-end power. Im building boost by 2500
Good luck to you. Keep this thread updated as much as possible.
Dyno last week made 408 wheels at 10.2psi. I regularly see 11+ on the street. Close to 500 crank. Use those numbers for guidance if you dont plan on upgrading the internals. Looks like the pistons are the weak link but the rods could be right behind that so who knows. I think Ill be getting a custom set of pistons.
Most importantly, do have any plans to upgrade the internals of the trans? Higher stall converter? Stronger clutches?
If you have been following the turbo thread youll see that my trans is holding up fine with a cooler and amsoil type F fluid. Please make sure to use redline or amsoil Type F atf.
Some other issues youll face are the inability to build boost off the line. There was an idea thrown out there about removing the brake pedal position switch from the pedal and having something continuously pressing the button. I did not get around to trying this.
Have you seen the issue with my car in 2nd gear while in auto mode under full boost? The trans will not shift to 3rd and bounces off the rev limiter. SS mode must be used in order to achieve the shift. If you have this problem, hopefully you can figure out why it happens.
With a higher setting for the waste gate crack pressure on a boost controller you will have no problems with mid range power with a larger single like I have. I really dont suffer from no low-end power. Im building boost by 2500
Good luck to you. Keep this thread updated as much as possible.
11-30-2010, 09:45 PM
#37
Safety Car
If anyone wants to make huge strides with the J32, they better learn how to monitor knock.
Where in the hell is IHC? We need him to talk some sense into some people on this forum. If he remians MIA, I am going to start taking up his slack.
Where in the hell is IHC? We need him to talk some sense into some people on this forum. If he remians MIA, I am going to start taking up his slack.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 11-30-2010 at 09:48 PM.
12-01-2010, 06:48 PM
#39
Team Owner
Good luck. Seems like you have the resources and knowledge to pull it off. Hopefully with all of the great info, research, and testing from Bert's 5at turbo build, yours can happen even easier.
I prefer the power delivery of a larger single because in every instance I've been involved in, the single will hit full boost quicker but in an all at once slam you back sort of way while the twins seem more linear but ever so slightly slower. With the new GT series which I consider the first real turbo technology advancement in 20 years, it may not matter that much anymore.
I do like the idea of hanging one off of each head. It looks as if the single exhaust port was made for a turbo and lag should not be an issue with them that close.
The plumbing sounds great.
A few big things though...
For some reason no one monitors knock and broken pistons are always the result.
Along the same lines, it looks like the J32 uses a fairly tight ring gap. Sustained runs with boost are probably not the best idea on the stock bottom. Point and shoot in traffic and 1/4 mile would probably be a lot safer than a road course or top end run.
Powerbraking is currently not possible. According to Bert, the ECU limits the throttle to about 13"hg with the pedal to the floor with the brake on. Probably around 1/4 throttle lol. May not even be necessary on street tire with those turbos.
I prefer the power delivery of a larger single because in every instance I've been involved in, the single will hit full boost quicker but in an all at once slam you back sort of way while the twins seem more linear but ever so slightly slower. With the new GT series which I consider the first real turbo technology advancement in 20 years, it may not matter that much anymore.
I do like the idea of hanging one off of each head. It looks as if the single exhaust port was made for a turbo and lag should not be an issue with them that close.
The plumbing sounds great.
A few big things though...
For some reason no one monitors knock and broken pistons are always the result.
Along the same lines, it looks like the J32 uses a fairly tight ring gap. Sustained runs with boost are probably not the best idea on the stock bottom. Point and shoot in traffic and 1/4 mile would probably be a lot safer than a road course or top end run.
Powerbraking is currently not possible. According to Bert, the ECU limits the throttle to about 13"hg with the pedal to the floor with the brake on. Probably around 1/4 throttle lol. May not even be necessary on street tire with those turbos.
