FEELER: Plug and play factory amp replacement?
10-28-2011, 05:22 PM
#121
Yes sir. $298 plus $10.50 shipping.
Here is the official thread for buying it..... https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/3rd-gen-tl-pnp-amplifier-upgrade-836276/
Here is the official thread for buying it..... https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/3rd-gen-tl-pnp-amplifier-upgrade-836276/
10-28-2011, 06:41 PM
#123
I hear ya man. This is the very reason we got Rockford techs involved. The paperwork says that it doesn't work. The proven fact is that it does. We have this amp in numerous cars, as mentioned before, running 2 ohm speakers. I've even had this in my own 2007 TL-S. On a cloudy day you would have a valid argument. But it's a rainy day and the paperwork has been proven wrong. In almost 20 vehicles that we have run this at 2 ohms this many have come back with issues..... ZERO.
10-28-2011, 08:44 PM
#125
Ok...you guys have been informed and it is your dime. I talked to Rockford myself. They stated the amp would fail early, if it worked at all (call them and ask yourself).
I tend to believe Rockford themselves over a dealer...but that is just me! They described this exact use and told me it would NOT work and if it by chance did, it wouldn't for long.
I mean, I'm sure Rockford wants to produce amps and NOT sell them and that is why they would lie to me....your money!
I tend to believe Rockford themselves over a dealer...but that is just me! They described this exact use and told me it would NOT work and if it by chance did, it wouldn't for long.
I mean, I'm sure Rockford wants to produce amps and NOT sell them and that is why they would lie to me....your money!
!
10-28-2011, 09:37 PM
#127
Fearless DIY Guy
iTrader: (2)
Please provide us with the TECHNICAL explanation as to what will fail, and WHY. Not that I'm calling a bluff, but if you're going to stick your neck out, be prepared to defend it.
No bullshit here. I'm looking for PRECISE root cause of failure level detail, not the current high-level "OMG ROCKFORD IS ISSUING A BLANKET STATEMENT TO COVER THEIR ASSES AND I WILL HOLD IT AS GOSPEL" argument you're providing.
10-28-2011, 09:40 PM
#128
Fearless DIY Guy
iTrader: (2)
FYI: You're currently reading this thread, and I've screen capped it, niebur. I'm assuming you can do this quickly due to your level of expertise, self-proclaimed or otherwise.
10-28-2011, 09:55 PM
#129
I'm questioning you.
Please provide us with the TECHNICAL explanation as to what will fail, and WHY. Not that I'm calling a bluff, but if you're going to stick your neck out, be prepared to defend it.
No bullshit here. I'm looking for PRECISE root cause of failure level detail, not the current high-level "OMG ROCKFORD IS ISSUING A BLANKET STATEMENT TO COVER THEIR ASSES AND I WILL HOLD IT AS GOSPEL" argument you're providing.
Please provide us with the TECHNICAL explanation as to what will fail, and WHY. Not that I'm calling a bluff, but if you're going to stick your neck out, be prepared to defend it.
No bullshit here. I'm looking for PRECISE root cause of failure level detail, not the current high-level "OMG ROCKFORD IS ISSUING A BLANKET STATEMENT TO COVER THEIR ASSES AND I WILL HOLD IT AS GOSPEL" argument you're providing.
Do TELL.....
10-28-2011, 09:57 PM
#130
Fearless DIY Guy
iTrader: (2)
For 1, the question to Rockford was very specific to this intended application. As a factory replacement amp with the vehicle specific speakers rated at 2ohm.
To answer your question, the cause of the failure would be heat. You are now asking the amp to produce double the power (due to the impedance load it is seeing) than it was intended to (neither the power supply or heat sink are up to this task). It will NOT be able to dissipate the heat properly and will either go into protect (if protection circuitry is present) or you will eventually fry the output devices and it will go out in a puff of smoke!
The impedance level the amp sees combined with the unavoidable heat, will cause the distortion levels to literally spike.
Again, I don't need anyone to believe me beyond using google to research for themselves or calling Rockford Fosgate.
To answer your question, the cause of the failure would be heat. You are now asking the amp to produce double the power (due to the impedance load it is seeing) than it was intended to (neither the power supply or heat sink are up to this task). It will NOT be able to dissipate the heat properly and will either go into protect (if protection circuitry is present) or you will eventually fry the output devices and it will go out in a puff of smoke!
The impedance level the amp sees combined with the unavoidable heat, will cause the distortion levels to literally spike.
Again, I don't need anyone to believe me beyond using google to research for themselves or calling Rockford Fosgate.
No, no, no - that DOESN'T COUNT. I want you to show me the thermal load induced on the amp and how it will fail, this is still theoretical! I've seen NO measurements, NO flux measurements, NO load calculations or otherwise! You've yet to prove your point!
10-28-2011, 09:57 PM
#131
No way in hell should it have taken this long to respond, particularly if you have "experience". Subject matter experts know answers IMMEDIATLEY, and you've failed to do this. At this point in time I can only assume you're googling your ass off to save face, but FWIW, I'll take uncald's real world experience over your inability to answer this in an expedient manner ANY day of the week.
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DeathMetal (10-28-2011)
10-28-2011, 10:15 PM
#132
Intermediate
For 1, the question to Rockford was very specific to this intended application. As a factory replacement amp with the vehicle specific speakers rated at 2ohm.
To answer your question, the cause of the failure would be heat. You are now asking the amp to produce double the power (due to the impedance load it is seeing) than it was intended to (neither the power supply or heat sink are up to this task). It will NOT be able to dissipate the heat properly and will either go into protect (if protection circuitry is present) or you will eventually fry the output devices and it will go out in a puff of smoke! The power supply itself could also fail due to trying to output double what it is capable of. (Take an engine of a car that redlines at 6K RPM and try to run it at 12K RPM....how long do you think it will last?)
Ohm's Law cannot be disputed...oh, you can try, but you will lose every time!
Ohm's Law defines the relationships between (P) power, (E) voltage, (I) current, and (R) resistance. One ohm is the resistance value through which one volt will maintain a current of one ampere.
( I ) Current is what flows on a wire or conductor like water flowing down a river. Current flows from negative to positive on the surface of a conductor. Current is measured in (A) amperes or amps.
( E ) Voltage is the difference in electrical potential between two points in a circuit. It's the push or pressure behind current flow through a circuit, and is measured in (V) volts.
( R ) Resistance determines how much current will flow through a component. Resistors are used to control voltage and current levels. A very high resistance allows a small amount of current to flow. A very low resistance allows a large amount of current to flow. Resistance is measured in
ohms.
The impedance level the amp sees combined with the unavoidable heat, will cause the distortion levels to literally spike.
Again, I don't need anyone to believe me beyond using google to research for themselves or calling Rockford Fosgate.
Hope this helps!
To answer your question, the cause of the failure would be heat. You are now asking the amp to produce double the power (due to the impedance load it is seeing) than it was intended to (neither the power supply or heat sink are up to this task). It will NOT be able to dissipate the heat properly and will either go into protect (if protection circuitry is present) or you will eventually fry the output devices and it will go out in a puff of smoke! The power supply itself could also fail due to trying to output double what it is capable of. (Take an engine of a car that redlines at 6K RPM and try to run it at 12K RPM....how long do you think it will last?)
Ohm's Law cannot be disputed...oh, you can try, but you will lose every time!
Ohm's Law defines the relationships between (P) power, (E) voltage, (I) current, and (R) resistance. One ohm is the resistance value through which one volt will maintain a current of one ampere.
( I ) Current is what flows on a wire or conductor like water flowing down a river. Current flows from negative to positive on the surface of a conductor. Current is measured in (A) amperes or amps.
( E ) Voltage is the difference in electrical potential between two points in a circuit. It's the push or pressure behind current flow through a circuit, and is measured in (V) volts.
( R ) Resistance determines how much current will flow through a component. Resistors are used to control voltage and current levels. A very high resistance allows a small amount of current to flow. A very low resistance allows a large amount of current to flow. Resistance is measured in
ohms. The impedance level the amp sees combined with the unavoidable heat, will cause the distortion levels to literally spike.
Again, I don't need anyone to believe me beyond using google to research for themselves or calling Rockford Fosgate.
Hope this helps!
The bottom line is that unless its running full out for 22 hours a day, you are NEVER going to strain this amp. I have years of audio experience as well and I ran two ohm loads before people even understood what that meant. The only amp that ever I ever failed early was a Sherwood 4 channel that I bought on employee discount at CC. Sheared the tops of the caps off running 4 12s at two ohm. And it pounded right up to the last note
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing. All manufactures will quote the conservative specs to the public.
The following 2 users liked this post by MrMilano:
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nicourt (10-28-2011)
10-28-2011, 10:21 PM
#133
Seriously. 10min to write and proof read a response while watching the World Series! You guys are funny as hell. Do your own damn research next time. This isn't rocket science you know and it has been well documented pretty much everywhere.
Oh, you can also pick that thing up you use to text everyone, dial the number I gave you and find out for yourself. WTF do I care if you waste your money or not!
BTW, I don't keep ohm's law in exact words at my finger tip and yes, I did google to get the terminology correct....sue me!
Yes, but this isn't a typical Rockford Class A/B/D/G/H design and it does make a difference! Again, do whatever you guys want, I'm just warning you!!!
Oh, you can also pick that thing up you use to text everyone, dial the number I gave you and find out for yourself. WTF do I care if you waste your money or not!
BTW, I don't keep ohm's law in exact words at my finger tip and yes, I did google to get the terminology correct....sue me!
RFs are known for being milspec amps. They have popped off a cheapie here and there, but its a safe bet that many well made amps will run at 2 ohms all day and never shed a tear. The first punch 45 series would run 12 speakers at 1 ohm and never miss a beat. Ask some of the old vets.
The bottom line is that unless its running full out for 22 hours a day, you are NEVER going to strain this amp. I have years of audio experience as well and I ran two ohm loads before people even understood what that meant. The only amp that ever I ever failed early was a Sherwood 4 channel that I bought on employee discount at CC. Sheared the tops of the caps off running 4 12s at two ohm. And it pounded right up to the last note
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing. All manufactures will quote the conservative specs to the public.
The bottom line is that unless its running full out for 22 hours a day, you are NEVER going to strain this amp. I have years of audio experience as well and I ran two ohm loads before people even understood what that meant. The only amp that ever I ever failed early was a Sherwood 4 channel that I bought on employee discount at CC. Sheared the tops of the caps off running 4 12s at two ohm. And it pounded right up to the last note
Stop arguing for the sake of arguing. All manufactures will quote the conservative specs to the public.
10-28-2011, 10:23 PM
#134
I'm not argueing or saying I know it all. But if I read some of this correct, the amp is to run at 4ohm...And our factory setup is 2ohm...The dude who is calling out the vendor has a valid point. But it would only be valid on factory components.
In my younger years I ruined several systems overtime due to trying to run the amps and or speakers at the wrong ohms. Lower the ohms the more power produced and or sucked from.
Just my 2 cents, Things I have learned over the years ( which could be wrong, im not a "know it all" )
Sounds like a great upgrade though for those who want to upgrade speakers and what not. I'd probably buy one!
In my younger years I ruined several systems overtime due to trying to run the amps and or speakers at the wrong ohms. Lower the ohms the more power produced and or sucked from.
Just my 2 cents, Things I have learned over the years ( which could be wrong, im not a "know it all" )
Sounds like a great upgrade though for those who want to upgrade speakers and what not. I'd probably buy one!
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niebur3 (10-28-2011)
10-28-2011, 10:45 PM
#135
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libert69 (08-25-2012)
10-28-2011, 11:36 PM
#136
I'm not argueing or saying I know it all. But if I read some of this correct, the amp is to run at 4ohm...And our factory setup is 2ohm...The dude who is calling out the vendor has a valid point. But it would only be valid on factory components.
In my younger years I ruined several systems overtime due to trying to run the amps and or speakers at the wrong ohms. Lower the ohms the more power produced and or sucked from.
Just my 2 cents, Things I have learned over the years ( which could be wrong, im not a "know it all" )
Sounds like a great upgrade though for those who want to upgrade speakers and what not. I'd probably buy one!
In my younger years I ruined several systems overtime due to trying to run the amps and or speakers at the wrong ohms. Lower the ohms the more power produced and or sucked from.
Just my 2 cents, Things I have learned over the years ( which could be wrong, im not a "know it all" )
Sounds like a great upgrade though for those who want to upgrade speakers and what not. I'd probably buy one!
Having said that the amp will work for a while and if you don't push it hard it may work as long as you have it. If I were doing this upgrade I would look into replacing the speakers with the amp to avoid any issues.
If Uncald4 is going to honor the warranty that should give you some comfort but you should do yourself a favor and swap the speakers out before you need to.
The following 2 users liked this post by sddale:
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niebur3 (10-28-2011)
10-28-2011, 11:49 PM
#137
Or, he could fix the issue in the custom wire harness. Just came to me in the shower (I love the shower). He needs to put in a jumper (I am assuming the front tweeter and midrange/midbass are on the front channels) to wire them in series. Thus the (actually 1ohm load at certain frequencies) the amps is seeing, it would be now seeing a 4ohm load (like you do with DVC subs). Then on the rear channels (I am assuming just the factory midbass/midrange) wire in an impedance correction circuit (Zobel network) to raise the impedance the amp sees to 4ohm. May be able to get away with a simple 2ohm resistor (for each speaker) wired in series. Very simple fix for anyone with factory speakers!!!
My apologies for not suggesting this sooner....hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes!
My apologies for not suggesting this sooner....hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes!
Last edited by niebur3; 10-28-2011 at 11:56 PM.
10-29-2011, 12:04 AM
#138
Intermediate
Who is going to keep the crap factory speakers anyway? Pull them out and look at them. I'll send you picks of mine if you want. They are slightly better than factory honda......
...and more to the point, they can barely take what the factory amps gives them. I just replaced the entire front stage with JBLs and they suck the factory amp dry. Night and day difference. I actually get fautige after a while at 38. My ears would have bled listening to the OEMs at 38. Distortion city.
...and more to the point, they can barely take what the factory amps gives them. I just replaced the entire front stage with JBLs and they suck the factory amp dry. Night and day difference. I actually get fautige after a while at 38. My ears would have bled listening to the OEMs at 38. Distortion city.
10-29-2011, 12:06 AM
#139
Intermediate
Or, he could fix the issue in the custom wire harness. Just came to me in the shower (I love the shower). He needs to put in a jumper (I am assuming the front tweeter and midrange/midbass are on the front channels) to wire them in series. Thus the (actually 1ohm load at certain frequencies) the amps is seeing, it would be now seeing a 4ohm load (like you do with DVC subs). Then on the rear channels (I am assuming just the factory midbass/midrange) wire in an impedance correction circuit (Zobel network) to raise the impedance the amp sees to 4ohm. May be able to get away with a simple 2ohm resistor (for each speaker) wired in series. Very simple fix for anyone with factory speakers!!!
My apologies for not suggesting this sooner....hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes!
My apologies for not suggesting this sooner....hard to see the forest through the trees sometimes!
10-29-2011, 09:01 AM
#140
Seems like this thread has taken more of a personal turn now...ego has gotten involved.
I think Niebur3 has done a fine job warning people of what someone at RF has told him and what he fears the outcome might be. But equally, uncald4 has had someone at RF tell him it's fine and he's gone as far as saying that warranty or not, he'd back the product up if it failed (assuming it's not 10 years from now
).
In MY opinion, the people have enough info to make an informed decision at this point. The factory amp was giving me MAJOR engine noise. Cost to replace was $250 for the same crap. If I hadn't figured out a work around, I'd probably buy this and give it a shot for $50 more. I always thought, if the factory system had a LITTLE more of a kick, I'd be happy with it (especially on XM setting).
It's all relative too.
Niebur, you're right...but in what context? Running it at full volume for 22 hours straight, as mentioned, MAYBE it'll shit. But, driving to work for 20 minutes here and there or the occassional 3 hour road trip...where you listen to the volume at 2/3 if at all. Probably won't be an issue. Plus, we're not talking a sub amp running 1 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable amp at 2200 watts. It's a small amp.
And no offense to some of the posters on this thread but it sounds like you don't truly understand the speaker and amp relationship. The amp is a constant, the load you present it with the resistance of the speaker is the variable. You can change the speaker and you can change the wiring to change load but a 1 ohm stable amp or 2 ohm stable amp or 4 ohm stable amp are exactly what they are.
I think Niebur3 has done a fine job warning people of what someone at RF has told him and what he fears the outcome might be. But equally, uncald4 has had someone at RF tell him it's fine and he's gone as far as saying that warranty or not, he'd back the product up if it failed (assuming it's not 10 years from now
). In MY opinion, the people have enough info to make an informed decision at this point. The factory amp was giving me MAJOR engine noise. Cost to replace was $250 for the same crap. If I hadn't figured out a work around, I'd probably buy this and give it a shot for $50 more. I always thought, if the factory system had a LITTLE more of a kick, I'd be happy with it (especially on XM setting).
It's all relative too.
Niebur, you're right...but in what context? Running it at full volume for 22 hours straight, as mentioned, MAYBE it'll shit. But, driving to work for 20 minutes here and there or the occassional 3 hour road trip...where you listen to the volume at 2/3 if at all. Probably won't be an issue. Plus, we're not talking a sub amp running 1 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable amp at 2200 watts. It's a small amp.
And no offense to some of the posters on this thread but it sounds like you don't truly understand the speaker and amp relationship. The amp is a constant, the load you present it with the resistance of the speaker is the variable. You can change the speaker and you can change the wiring to change load but a 1 ohm stable amp or 2 ohm stable amp or 4 ohm stable amp are exactly what they are.
10-29-2011, 10:42 AM
#141
Intermediate
Seems like this thread has taken more of a personal turn now...ego has gotten involved.
I think Niebur3 has done a fine job warning people of what someone at RF has told him and what he fears the outcome might be. But equally, uncald4 has had someone at RF tell him it's fine and he's gone as far as saying that warranty or not, he'd back the product up if it failed (assuming it's not 10 years from now ).
In MY opinion, the people have enough info to make an informed decision at this point. The factory amp was giving me MAJOR engine noise. Cost to replace was $250 for the same crap. If I hadn't figured out a work around, I'd probably buy this and give it a shot for $50 more. I always thought, if the factory system had a LITTLE more of a kick, I'd be happy with it (especially on XM setting).
It's all relative too.
Niebur, you're right...but in what context? Running it at full volume for 22 hours straight, as mentioned, MAYBE it'll shit. But, driving to work for 20 minutes here and there or the occassional 3 hour road trip...where you listen to the volume at 2/3 if at all. Probably won't be an issue. Plus, we're not talking a sub amp running 1 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable amp at 2200 watts. It's a small amp.
And no offense to some of the posters on this thread but it sounds like you don't truly understand the speaker and amp relationship. The amp is a constant, the load you present it with the resistance of the speaker is the variable. You can change the speaker and you can change the wiring to change load but a 1 ohm stable amp or 2 ohm stable amp or 4 ohm stable amp are exactly what they are.
I think Niebur3 has done a fine job warning people of what someone at RF has told him and what he fears the outcome might be. But equally, uncald4 has had someone at RF tell him it's fine and he's gone as far as saying that warranty or not, he'd back the product up if it failed (assuming it's not 10 years from now
). In MY opinion, the people have enough info to make an informed decision at this point. The factory amp was giving me MAJOR engine noise. Cost to replace was $250 for the same crap. If I hadn't figured out a work around, I'd probably buy this and give it a shot for $50 more. I always thought, if the factory system had a LITTLE more of a kick, I'd be happy with it (especially on XM setting).
It's all relative too.
Niebur, you're right...but in what context? Running it at full volume for 22 hours straight, as mentioned, MAYBE it'll shit. But, driving to work for 20 minutes here and there or the occassional 3 hour road trip...where you listen to the volume at 2/3 if at all. Probably won't be an issue. Plus, we're not talking a sub amp running 1 ohm load on a 4 ohm stable amp at 2200 watts. It's a small amp.
And no offense to some of the posters on this thread but it sounds like you don't truly understand the speaker and amp relationship. The amp is a constant, the load you present it with the resistance of the speaker is the variable. You can change the speaker and you can change the wiring to change load but a 1 ohm stable amp or 2 ohm stable amp or 4 ohm stable amp are exactly what they are.
10-29-2011, 11:22 AM
#142
No, it does not. The impedance will change through the frequency range of the driver, but power level does NOTHING to the resistance of the speaker. Also, the tweeter in this case (in the front channels) will only make matters worse.
10-29-2011, 12:19 PM
#143
Racer
I agree with you here. Niebur has a valid point on the amp. It's not designed to be run at 2ohms. Whatever the reason may be, on page 7 of the manual for the PBR300X4 the manufacturer says: NOTE: 4 ohm Stereo ONLY. For those of you asking the technical reasons why it's not stable at 2 ohms should call Rockford Fosgate since they've probably done the tests you're looking for.
Having said that the amp will work for a while and if you don't push it hard it may work as long as you have it. If I were doing this upgrade I would look into replacing the speakers with the amp to avoid any issues.
If Uncald4 is going to honor the warranty that should give you some comfort but you should do yourself a favor and swap the speakers out before you need to.
Having said that the amp will work for a while and if you don't push it hard it may work as long as you have it. If I were doing this upgrade I would look into replacing the speakers with the amp to avoid any issues.
If Uncald4 is going to honor the warranty that should give you some comfort but you should do yourself a favor and swap the speakers out before you need to.
These points need to be amplified.
Neibur3 (Jerry) has valid points and his analysis of the general physics is correct. What we don't know is where the amp's design point is with respect to thermal dissipation. It would take someone with detailed knowledge of the amp design to determine the effect of the reduced impedance on the internal components of the amp. Such an analysis would also have to take into consideration listening volume and ambient temperature. All of these factors are beyond our ability to analyze.
With all of these unknowns there is one fact that is relevant; Uncald4 (Travis) has stated that he will stand behind this product with a warranty. If anyone doubts the integrity of this, lookup Travis' iSimple thread. Travis was replacing PXAMG units for members who had obviously installed the units incorrectly. I think anyone considering this purchase should feel some comfort in this warranty.
I think most of us know how challenging it is to retrofit upgrades into the TL and keep the stock look. Most aftermarket mods are compromises; this appears to be no different. I think that this discussion is beneficial in that the potential issues have been aired. Both Jerry and Travis are honest and reputable members; we should not let this thread degenerate into personal attacks.
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niebur3 (10-29-2011)
10-30-2011, 12:58 AM
#145
Intermediate
My bad. I meant to say frequency range. Score one Niebur!
10-31-2011, 04:37 PM
#148
I deleted some posts at the request of uncald4, and he will post his comments concerning this action.
We don't necessarily take the vendor's side, but he also helps support this forum so we try to give him whatever help we can, while still maintaining the rights of the regular members.
It would also help if the arguing or hypothesizing were held to a minimum, consistent with keeping the thread as informative as possible.
We don't necessarily take the vendor's side, but he also helps support this forum so we try to give him whatever help we can, while still maintaining the rights of the regular members.
It would also help if the arguing or hypothesizing were held to a minimum, consistent with keeping the thread as informative as possible.
10-31-2011, 05:39 PM
#149
Team Owner
Who is going to keep the crap factory speakers anyway? Pull them out and look at them. I'll send you picks of mine if you want. They are slightly better than factory honda......
...and more to the point, they can barely take what the factory amps gives them. I just replaced the entire front stage with JBLs and they suck the factory amp dry. Night and day difference. I actually get fautige after a while at 38. My ears would have bled listening to the OEMs at 38. Distortion city.
...and more to the point, they can barely take what the factory amps gives them. I just replaced the entire front stage with JBLs and they suck the factory amp dry. Night and day difference. I actually get fautige after a while at 38. My ears would have bled listening to the OEMs at 38. Distortion city.
10-31-2011, 06:37 PM
#150
Thank you Ron.
I appreciate everyone and their support. Please help me keep this thread on topic. If your comments and contributions do not pertain to the topic at hand please keep it to yourself or via PM.
The discrepancy that came up and led us astray was this.... the amplifier that we are using for this upgrade is 75 watts x 4 @ 4 ohms. The owners manual specifically states, "NOTE: 4 ohm stereo ONLY." on page 7. However, we have months of research into this amp. We've had long conversations with techs from Rockford. We have support from car audio all-stars all over the U.S.. Finally, we have proven results that this amp performs amazingly in the 3rd Gen TL with 2 ohm speakers.
I stand behind this upgrade with excitement. We built an awesome product. For any reason it fails we will replace it within it's 1 year warranty period.
Thank you!
I appreciate everyone and their support. Please help me keep this thread on topic. If your comments and contributions do not pertain to the topic at hand please keep it to yourself or via PM.
The discrepancy that came up and led us astray was this.... the amplifier that we are using for this upgrade is 75 watts x 4 @ 4 ohms. The owners manual specifically states, "NOTE: 4 ohm stereo ONLY." on page 7. However, we have months of research into this amp. We've had long conversations with techs from Rockford. We have support from car audio all-stars all over the U.S.. Finally, we have proven results that this amp performs amazingly in the 3rd Gen TL with 2 ohm speakers.
I stand behind this upgrade with excitement. We built an awesome product. For any reason it fails we will replace it within it's 1 year warranty period.
Thank you!
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libert69 (10-31-2011)
11-13-2011, 09:11 AM
#153
This whole jibber jabber about specs/impedence makes me laugh. I also wonder how my Infinity 2ohm speakers rated at 75watts RMS will handle effectively double......But I'll take the chance to find out. Just like many have said, if you have any car audio experience, I'm sure you would have experimented in your early years. Like connecting a 1000w amp at a 2ohm load to a Cerwin-Vega sub, lol!! You will realize that specs are specs and for the company's favor. Things can be "stretched" if you know what you are doing. How about the 1000s of mods for the TL where we have done mods and applied them "not exactly as designed"?? I have a CAI made for an Accord V-6. I have an ATLP exhaust made for a Type-S. etc. etc. don't get me started, lol. Time and time again you will hear chicken nay-sayers criticize. Yet only the owners of these mods know the truth. There's no conspiracy going on, lol. That they are tested and true and work regardless of whats on paper. It takes balls to mod. Yeah sometimes you put your equipment at risk/out of warranty.....boo-hoo. That is the price of modding. Everything on my car voids any warranty, lol.
Uncald has explained 100x the amount of research that has gone into this. He deserves credit, how many other people wanted to go through the amount of work required to bring this to the masses in a PnP way? Buy it or shutup.
Uncald has explained 100x the amount of research that has gone into this. He deserves credit, how many other people wanted to go through the amount of work required to bring this to the masses in a PnP way? Buy it or shutup.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 11-13-2011 at 09:15 AM.
11-13-2011, 11:17 AM
#154
Three Wheelin'
Just like many have said, if you have any car audio experience, I'm sure you would have experimented in your early years. Like connecting a 1000w amp at a 2ohm load to a Cerwin-Vega sub, lol!! You will realize that specs are specs and for the company's favor. Things can be "stretched" if you know what you are doing.
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niebur3 (11-15-2011)
11-13-2011, 01:07 PM
#155
Suzuka Master
This setup will work just fine! If you have issues he will stand by his product! Most people doing this mod will be changing out the stock drivers anyway for something thats perfectly matched with this amp in terms of impedence. something I am looking forward to doing! keep up the good work UNCALD4 we need more people exploring mods for this platform.
11-15-2011, 09:33 AM
#156
This whole jibber jabber about specs/impedence makes me laugh. I also wonder how my Infinity 2ohm speakers rated at 75watts RMS will handle effectively double......But I'll take the chance to find out. Just like many have said, if you have any car audio experience, I'm sure you would have experimented in your early years. Like connecting a 1000w amp at a 2ohm load to a Cerwin-Vega sub, lol!! You will realize that specs are specs and for the company's favor. Things can be "stretched" if you know what you are doing. How about the 1000s of mods for the TL where we have done mods and applied them "not exactly as designed"?? I have a CAI made for an Accord V-6. I have an ATLP exhaust made for a Type-S. etc. etc. don't get me started, lol. Time and time again you will hear chicken nay-sayers criticize. Yet only the owners of these mods know the truth. There's no conspiracy going on, lol. That they are tested and true and work regardless of whats on paper. It takes balls to mod. Yeah sometimes you put your equipment at risk/out of warranty.....boo-hoo. That is the price of modding. Everything on my car voids any warranty, lol.
Uncald has explained 100x the amount of research that has gone into this. He deserves credit, how many other people wanted to go through the amount of work required to bring this to the masses in a PnP way? Buy it or shutup.
Uncald has explained 100x the amount of research that has gone into this. He deserves credit, how many other people wanted to go through the amount of work required to bring this to the masses in a PnP way? Buy it or shutup.
I really could care less if people buy it or not, just that they know the risks. It could be a great upgrade for lots of members and could be a terrific solution (just wished a different amp was used, especially with all the small format amps on the market today). Personally, I don't think it is that hard to install an aftermarket amp in these cars, so I have no interest, but.....Good Luck!
I am glad to know this forum attacks someone just who is just trying to help people make an educated decision!
11-15-2011, 10:08 AM
#157
Aww don't take it as an attack. OK I'll play nice. Look, basically here is my point. Been on this forum for 5 years now. I have done many many of the mods described on the threads. A LOT of them deemed "risky" or controversial, yet I haven't been steered wrong. I go and do the mod anyways and 95% of the time it works out. 5% of the time I screwed something up myself. I can be an idiot sometimes. I go show it off at a AZine meet and people are amazed; as if I defied gravity. "Wow, it works!"
Most of the vendors here are not here just to make a profit on one offs. They communicate with us and put their rep on the line. There have been rare cases where vendor was one to stay away from. (Tec-Toys "lifetime warranty" on LEDs; Lifetime warranties don't last YOUR lifetime but the lifetime of that person's business, lol.) I can respect that maybe you don't want to take chances with your car. Some think taking a chance is dumb. It isn't contradictory to say you are that you are taking a chance and that you are doing something smart. I say, take calculated risks and you'll see they pay off.
I just put my money down for an amp. You'll hear my feedback soon. But what will convince you? For some people, they're just never convinced. And they discourage the other confused people in the gray area.
Most of the vendors here are not here just to make a profit on one offs. They communicate with us and put their rep on the line. There have been rare cases where vendor was one to stay away from. (Tec-Toys "lifetime warranty" on LEDs; Lifetime warranties don't last YOUR lifetime but the lifetime of that person's business, lol.) I can respect that maybe you don't want to take chances with your car. Some think taking a chance is dumb. It isn't contradictory to say you are that you are taking a chance and that you are doing something smart. I say, take calculated risks and you'll see they pay off.
I just put my money down for an amp. You'll hear my feedback soon. But what will convince you? For some people, they're just never convinced. And they discourage the other confused people in the gray area.
Last edited by rockyfeller; 11-15-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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MrMilano (11-17-2011)
11-15-2011, 11:02 AM
#158
And I do hope it works for you. I am not on here for the purpose of trying to sell a competing option or anything. I don't doubt it will work in the short term and the only thing that will convince me is long term usage. Come to me in 2 years and tell me it is still working fine, then I will be convinced. Hell, I'll even endorse it! Good Luck!!
11-15-2011, 07:55 PM
#159
takin care of Business in
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No disrespect to anyone on this touchy topic but I have heard "niebur"s system in the KC Meet and its far better than any fucking system I have heard....
the wiring, the amps, the speaker, everything was "made for each other"....no rattle...the lows were pronounced....the highs were there and the mids were not missing for a change....no rattle....
i let a man's work speak for him....neibur you are freaking genius....
uncald4....you have been a vendor for couple years and done a lot of stuff on/for the forums which I highly appreciate....but i would listen to this guy....he knows what he is talking about....both you guys should come out with a common conclusion which will help all members....and not fight over the same shit over and over again....
the wiring, the amps, the speaker, everything was "made for each other"....no rattle...the lows were pronounced....the highs were there and the mids were not missing for a change....no rattle....
i let a man's work speak for him....neibur you are freaking genius....
uncald4....you have been a vendor for couple years and done a lot of stuff on/for the forums which I highly appreciate....but i would listen to this guy....he knows what he is talking about....both you guys should come out with a common conclusion which will help all members....and not fight over the same shit over and over again....
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niebur3 (11-15-2011)
