10" midbass in the doors, any reasons not to?
07-11-2012, 09:28 PM
#121
^^You know what is odd?? I have my 650's crossed at 63hz 12dB with 400+ watts to each and I have very little side mirror vibration no matter how loud I take it. Did you deaden the door behind the speaker Matt (the inside of the outer door itself)? If so, I wonder why the difference? Mine can crank REALLY loud.
07-11-2012, 09:35 PM
#122
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Yep. I have the outer skin and both sides of the inner skin deadened along with some foam over the outer skin deadening. I bottomed one once. That was the beginning of my upgrade plans.
It's not only the mirrors but on some songs the 650s would kill the door panel, the 182s don't have much effect. It's really weird.
I don't know exactly what kind of games the MS8 plays with the crossover points but I know it lowers the crossover point and raises the gain on the midbass when you raise the sub level which I usually have boosted. I was playing test tones with the door panels off and with a 60hz/24db crossover, and a 20hz test tone, I still get some movement from the 182. At 40hz I have quite a bit of movement and 50hz is probably tied with 40hz but obviously louder.
It's not only the mirrors but on some songs the 650s would kill the door panel, the 182s don't have much effect. It's really weird.
I don't know exactly what kind of games the MS8 plays with the crossover points but I know it lowers the crossover point and raises the gain on the midbass when you raise the sub level which I usually have boosted. I was playing test tones with the door panels off and with a 60hz/24db crossover, and a 20hz test tone, I still get some movement from the 182. At 40hz I have quite a bit of movement and 50hz is probably tied with 40hz but obviously louder.
Last edited by I hate cars; 07-11-2012 at 09:38 PM.
07-11-2012, 09:49 PM
#123
6.5's will be fine for 90% of people. If you want to go 8" or more then you might as well do a 3-way and let the midbass do it's thing and have a dedicated midrange
On another note.....RC10's! Nice! I have the RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10's & PA-120 sub. I also have Energy's C-line (C500's, CC-100, C-100's). Energy makes very nice stuff. Kinda sucks they got purchased by Klipsch though
On another note.....RC10's! Nice! I have the RC-70's, RC-LCR, RC-10's & PA-120 sub. I also have Energy's C-line (C500's, CC-100, C-100's). Energy makes very nice stuff. Kinda sucks they got purchased by Klipsch though
I may just try an EQ with the stocks and feed them some more power because I imagine it hard to top the current config. The system blew me away again today listening to Carly Rae Jepsons cd (first pop cd I ever bought). Played it about 4 times during my eight hour drive
07-12-2012, 10:23 PM
#124
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I know you like the three way but in terms of sq in a two way setup, and given a quality sub that handles everything below 100-120hz, would you say 6.5 or 8" is the way to go? I am just wondering if the 8" would be sacrificing quality up at the 2-6k region. (my guess is if the 8" is designed foremost for sound quality that 8" would be the better option as it would not be as preoccupied with the 80-200hz region as a 6.5" might be). In terms of excursion, at what frequency area does that start to not be a relevant consideration?
The reason for a 3-way is for several reasons. You can run a larger midbass and cross it below it's beaming region and let the midrange handle the midrange frequencies. You get the whole voice range coming from one set of speakers instead of being split between the door and tweeter. The 3-way will usually be cleaner at high volume because the dedicated midrange is not burdened with the bass and midbass region. I've run a lot of 2-way 6.5" setups and honestly, the only one that has never muddied up at high volumes in the midrange with lots of midbass was the $1,000 Esotar 650. Even the Dyn 162 which is not cheap got just a little muddy in the midrange at high excursion.
When it comes to speakers, bigger is almost always better as long as they're playing below their beaming range. The less the speaker has to move, the better. I rarely play at a volume level that a single 15 could not handle but I run two of them so excursion is almost non existent. My 10s in the doors barely move at moderately loud levels and the 3.5" midranges have no visible excursion with a 320hz highpass. This gives a very dynamic yet system even when loud with no signs of stress or strain. I can go down the freeway with the windows down and completely drown out all wind noise with great sound if I choose to.
I've been spoiled or whatever you want to call it. My eyes have been opened to the limitations of a 6.5" midbass. In a 3-way there's just no need to run less than a 10" or at least an 8". In theory you could probably get away with a cheaper large midbass than a hard working small midbass and retain the same or better SQ.
Also, if you care about stage and upfront bass, running your subs up high will make it very difficult. Lowpassing my subs at 60hz where the midbasses take over makes the subs disappear. If you don't get carried away with the sub level, you can't tell where the bass is coming from, it sounds like everything is coming from up front. You can't tell where the subs leave off and where the midbass picks up.
If you highpass the midbasses at 100hz, an 8" or 10" would give little to no advantage.
07-13-2012, 01:20 AM
#125
Big speakers sacrifice nothing in SQ. All else being equal, they're going to have better SQ. The problem is beaming. If all speakers were aimed perfectly at the driver you could do a 10" 2-way but since the driver's side midbass is nearly 90 degrees off axis you need something smaller that beams at a higher frequency.
The reason for a 3-way is for several reasons. You can run a larger midbass and cross it below it's beaming region and let the midrange handle the midrange frequencies. You get the whole voice range coming from one set of speakers instead of being split between the door and tweeter. The 3-way will usually be cleaner at high volume because the dedicated midrange is not burdened with the bass and midbass region. I've run a lot of 2-way 6.5" setups and honestly, the only one that has never muddied up at high volumes in the midrange with lots of midbass was the $1,000 Esotar 650. Even the Dyn 162 which is not cheap got just a little muddy in the midrange at high excursion.
When it comes to speakers, bigger is almost always better as long as they're playing below their beaming range. The less the speaker has to move, the better. I rarely play at a volume level that a single 15 could not handle but I run two of them so excursion is almost non existent. My 10s in the doors barely move at moderately loud levels and the 3.5" midranges have no visible excursion with a 320hz highpass. This gives a very dynamic yet system even when loud with no signs of stress or strain. I can go down the freeway with the windows down and completely drown out all wind noise with great sound if I choose to.
I've been spoiled or whatever you want to call it. My eyes have been opened to the limitations of a 6.5" midbass. In a 3-way there's just no need to run less than a 10" or at least an 8". In theory you could probably get away with a cheaper large midbass than a hard working small midbass and retain the same or better SQ.
Also, if you care about stage and upfront bass, running your subs up high will make it very difficult. Lowpassing my subs at 60hz where the midbasses take over makes the subs disappear. If you don't get carried away with the sub level, you can't tell where the bass is coming from, it sounds like everything is coming from up front. You can't tell where the subs leave off and where the midbass picks up.
If you highpass the midbasses at 100hz, an 8" or 10" would give little to no advantage.
The reason for a 3-way is for several reasons. You can run a larger midbass and cross it below it's beaming region and let the midrange handle the midrange frequencies. You get the whole voice range coming from one set of speakers instead of being split between the door and tweeter. The 3-way will usually be cleaner at high volume because the dedicated midrange is not burdened with the bass and midbass region. I've run a lot of 2-way 6.5" setups and honestly, the only one that has never muddied up at high volumes in the midrange with lots of midbass was the $1,000 Esotar 650. Even the Dyn 162 which is not cheap got just a little muddy in the midrange at high excursion.
When it comes to speakers, bigger is almost always better as long as they're playing below their beaming range. The less the speaker has to move, the better. I rarely play at a volume level that a single 15 could not handle but I run two of them so excursion is almost non existent. My 10s in the doors barely move at moderately loud levels and the 3.5" midranges have no visible excursion with a 320hz highpass. This gives a very dynamic yet system even when loud with no signs of stress or strain. I can go down the freeway with the windows down and completely drown out all wind noise with great sound if I choose to.
I've been spoiled or whatever you want to call it. My eyes have been opened to the limitations of a 6.5" midbass. In a 3-way there's just no need to run less than a 10" or at least an 8". In theory you could probably get away with a cheaper large midbass than a hard working small midbass and retain the same or better SQ.
Also, if you care about stage and upfront bass, running your subs up high will make it very difficult. Lowpassing my subs at 60hz where the midbasses take over makes the subs disappear. If you don't get carried away with the sub level, you can't tell where the bass is coming from, it sounds like everything is coming from up front. You can't tell where the subs leave off and where the midbass picks up.
If you highpass the midbasses at 100hz, an 8" or 10" would give little to no advantage.
I cannot make up my mind about upgrading the speakers. I am in a larger city this week and I did drive here so I am going to try finding a good car audio shop and get someone I feel is trustworthy to demo my car and give impressions. I went to two places where I live and both times the guys there said I would have to spend a lot of money to improve on it but we'll see what I can find out tomorrow. For me, competing is not something that affects my choice, so I do not care if it can shake anything around me or make my ears ring (it does by the way). I am considering putting an eq somewhere between the HU and my 65wx4@2ohm amp and just working with that (keeping the TA processing of the factory amp). It seems near impossible to find an amp that will put out 40x4@2ohm which is what I would love to do so 65 will have to work or I will be forced to replace the stock speakers when they break. I also love to tinker with settings (should hear my HT tuning) so I can imagine when I have put myself in a more desirable financial position that a top of the line processor will be acquired. Again, thanks for the info.
07-13-2012, 08:25 AM
#126
But with that said, the magic is when your system can be played at a volume you can't hear yourself talk and your ears don't ring
!
07-13-2012, 09:35 AM
#127
Sound Quality Competitions do nothing of the sort. The judges typically listen at a normal speaking voice level and the subs are set probably softer than what the factory TL system can do.
But with that said, the magic is when your system can be played at a volume you can't hear yourself talk and your ears don't ring!
But with that said, the magic is when your system can be played at a volume you can't hear yourself talk and your ears don't ring
!I don't mean to hijack your thread IHC, but you guys could probably point me in the right direction for amping my stockers. I found an Alpine mrp-f240 which will put out 50w x 4 @ 2 ohms with a 80hz/18 db high pass on kijiji (similar to Craigslist). I already have a Sony amp not installed yet that puts out 65 w x 4 @ 2 ohm with a 80 Hz/12db high pass on front channels. Is there any reason I should not pick up the Alpine for 60 bucks? Do you think 50 w into 20 watts rms speakers is ok?
07-13-2012, 10:01 AM
#129
I would but when I do I will likely be looking at 100 w/channel which I suspect would kill my speakers pretty quick. Just looking to make the best use of the factory setup right now. Whem I sell the Sony and/or Alpine I should get my money back anyway. Paid 60 for the Sony abd will be paying 60 maybe 50 for the Alpine. Who knows if amping the stock speakers makes the system sound better I doubt I will hear anything better around here unless I try to find it.
07-13-2012, 11:22 AM
#130
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Get the more powerful amp and keep the gains down on the stock speakers. Turn them up when you go aftermarket. You will most definitely get better sq, much more of a difference than anything else you've done so far. The stock speakers bottom out easily so the highpass will have to be conservative. I ran 75w on mine for a couple years and had to highpass between 120 to 130 hz to not bottom them..
07-13-2012, 12:46 PM
#131
Get the more powerful amp and keep the gains down on the stock speakers. Turn them up when you go aftermarket. You will most definitely get better sq, much more of a difference than anything else you've done so far. The stock speakers bottom out easily so the highpass will have to be conservative. I ran 75w on mine for a couple years and had to highpass between 120 to 130 hz to not bottom them..
Btw I went to three audio shops this morning and demo'd the system and they could understand why I am trying to go this route. One guy had about 40 trophies of varying sizes. I dont know much about audio competition but they were from IASCA? and world championships? He was referred by the previous guy I talked to who once imploded his car with the pressure of a 20000 watt amp (not a typo) for his subs! Lol. Nice guys btw.
Thanks for your help guys. I am totally content with system as is now but I think amping will just make this silly grin bigger.
07-13-2012, 02:01 PM
#132
Cool, I will take that advice and stick with the Sony amp.
Essentially he means buy an amp with as much power as you can find (bland statement here, but hopefully you know what I mean). If you keep the gains low and be conservative on your HP filter then you'll be just fine.
I am just a little worried that it only has a fixed high pass of 80hz, 12db/octave. I guess Ill just be careful.
80/12 is pretty shallow and low for the stockies. I'd try to find something else (any newer amp will have a large range of HPF) that can do 110-120hz/18 or 24db and feed them more power.
The upside is this Sony amp actually has much better THD rating at 2 ohms:0.05% @ rated RMS (65) so hopefully if I do not have to turn the volume past 30 the power will be pretty clean.
...You never know how true that rating is lol
Thanks for your help guys. I am totally content with system as is now but I think amping will just make this silly grin bigger.
Essentially he means buy an amp with as much power as you can find (bland statement here, but hopefully you know what I mean). If you keep the gains low and be conservative on your HP filter then you'll be just fine.
I am just a little worried that it only has a fixed high pass of 80hz, 12db/octave. I guess Ill just be careful.
80/12 is pretty shallow and low for the stockies. I'd try to find something else (any newer amp will have a large range of HPF) that can do 110-120hz/18 or 24db and feed them more power.
The upside is this Sony amp actually has much better THD rating at 2 ohms:0.05% @ rated RMS (65) so hopefully if I do not have to turn the volume past 30 the power will be pretty clean.
...You never know how true that rating is lol
Thanks for your help guys. I am totally content with system as is now but I think amping will just make this silly grin bigger.
07-13-2012, 02:16 PM
#133
If you are content...that's all that matters. Some people are never content and some people are good with $100 speakers. Everyone's ears are different and everyone's lifestyle, budget, etc are different. That's nice that you're content with that though, budget wise lol....I wish I was.
I dont think it would make much sense for me to get that much more power if Im already pretty happy. I just want a few decibels of extra volume for two inputs (xm and aux). If the sound also improves then great.
07-24-2012, 10:02 PM
#134
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Just wanted to update, I am so incredibly happy I went with this setup. I'm back to enjoying the music and not tweaking or even paying attention to the system. I installed new carpet over the weekend and went back over many connections and tidied up the wiring which mean cutting a lot of it shorter and re-terminating some of it. I had to temporarily put the line driver in the trunk. Moved it back to the front, in the glove box and the noise that I had temporarily is gone. It works wonders when installed early in the signal chain.
The system is everything I could have hoped for. Still running the 10s from 63-320hz. It's as dynamic as I could ever hope for. I can always tell when it's perfect because I go back to enjoying the music and completely forget about the system. It's so life-like and clean and clear. Impact is like being at a live concert. It plays every genre of music extremely well. Very tight, hard hitting when needed yet so detailed at any volume. I've never been this satisfied with this system.
The system is everything I could have hoped for. Still running the 10s from 63-320hz. It's as dynamic as I could ever hope for. I can always tell when it's perfect because I go back to enjoying the music and completely forget about the system. It's so life-like and clean and clear. Impact is like being at a live concert. It plays every genre of music extremely well. Very tight, hard hitting when needed yet so detailed at any volume. I've never been this satisfied with this system.
07-24-2012, 10:04 PM
#135
Team Owner
Thread Starter
In regards to some of the previous posts regarding the amp's THD, I doubt you will ever know the difference in 1.5% and .001% considering the stock speakers are in the 10% range lol.
07-24-2012, 11:08 PM
#136
Ok.... I refered to THD due to the heat and possible damage caused to speakers by distortion. I thought this was especially important since I am feeding them over three times the power they are rated for. Glad you like your system. I am quite happy with mine. With my gain at roughly 1/3 I could check but I doubt my amp is putting any distortion over .001% to the speakers and they sound clean and loud.
Last edited by stevemk07; 07-24-2012 at 11:12 PM.
07-25-2012, 08:59 AM
#137
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Ok.... I refered to THD due to the heat and possible damage caused to speakers by distortion. I thought this was especially important since I am feeding them over three times the power they are rated for. Glad you like your system. I am quite happy with mine. With my gain at roughly 1/3 I could check but I doubt my amp is putting any distortion over .001% to the speakers and they sound clean and loud.
07-25-2012, 09:27 AM
#138
Matt & Jerry....how do you think the MW182 would work in a 2-way? I'm wondering what tweeters or 2-3" fullrange could be coupled with it. Not quite sure how large a 3" would look glassed into the a-pillars, but might look good. Something like the l3se or whatever.
Might go that route sometime. I really don't feel like getting all new amps for a 3-way, though if I do a center i'll need to replace my audison or replace the q450 for 5-channel. Still too early in my research to see if a center is really that beneficial on the ms-8.
Might go that route sometime. I really don't feel like getting all new amps for a 3-way, though if I do a center i'll need to replace my audison or replace the q450 for 5-channel. Still too early in my research to see if a center is really that beneficial on the ms-8.
07-25-2012, 09:39 AM
#139
You would need a tweeter or fullrange that could come down and meet the MW182 before it starts to beam. I would pair it with Dynaudio MD130 tweeters or something like the L3se. I think either way you would cover everything you need to. John Whitledge used 130's in his Bus, until changing them to 110's recently and Scott Buwalda built an Infniti G35 with his L3se's in the sail panels (no tweeters) and is a huge competitor.
07-25-2012, 09:40 AM
#140
Power and distortion ratings are usually fudged but that doesn't matter here. The thing to point out is even though your amp is rated at 75w, the speakers are likely not seeing over 15-20w rms. There may be peaks as high as 75w but the average I'm sure is quite low. When I tested my subs, I was amazed to find out that average draw was below 50w at a decently loud level.
07-25-2012, 10:18 AM
#141
You would need a tweeter or fullrange that could come down and meet the MW182 before it starts to beam. I would pair it with Dynaudio MD130 tweeters or something like the L3se. I think either way you would cover everything you need to. John Whitledge used 130's in his Bus, until changing them to 110's recently and Scott Buwalda built an Infniti G35 with his L3se's in the sail panels (no tweeters) and is a huge competitor.
I can't find the size on the 130's, but they look quite large for a 30mm tweeter. Possibly larger than the l3se/l3pro. I think that would be a pretty killer 2-way setup. Simple, but should sound incredible. It won't be happening extremely soon as I'm about to close on a house
, but I'd like to try it or something on down the road of course.Edit: Nvm...found the 130 dimensions.
L3se/L3pro: 3.7" dia & 1.73" depth
MD130: 4.37" dia & 1.5" depth
Sorry to thread jack Matt...
Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 07-25-2012 at 10:24 AM.
07-25-2012, 12:33 PM
#142
The 110's are just downright sexy, but sooo expensive lol. I wish right now
I can't find the size on the 130's, but they look quite large for a 30mm tweeter. Possibly larger than the l3se/l3pro. I think that would be a pretty killer 2-way setup. Simple, but should sound incredible. It won't be happening extremely soon as I'm about to close on a house, but I'd like to try it or something on down the road of course.
Edit: Nvm...found the 130 dimensions.
L3se/L3pro: 3.7" dia & 1.73" depth
MD130: 4.37" dia & 1.5" depth
Sorry to thread jack Matt...
I can't find the size on the 130's, but they look quite large for a 30mm tweeter. Possibly larger than the l3se/l3pro. I think that would be a pretty killer 2-way setup. Simple, but should sound incredible. It won't be happening extremely soon as I'm about to close on a house
, but I'd like to try it or something on down the road of course.Edit: Nvm...found the 130 dimensions.
L3se/L3pro: 3.7" dia & 1.73" depth
MD130: 4.37" dia & 1.5" depth
Sorry to thread jack Matt...
3.9" dia and 1.5" depth
+/- 2dB to 13kHz
MSRP $650
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-midrange.html
07-25-2012, 03:08 PM
#143
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The rating I referred to was on a CEA compliant amplifer made by Sony Corporation... a very reputable company. The rating is not 75 watts either. That was your amplifier. Anyway, I know that about the amplifiers. That is the reason we went away from class A. Regardless of the average power my speakers see they are still receiving around three times more power they were previously.
So you go from a 20w amp to an 80w amp, unless you're listening to them at full volume all the time, your stock speakers are not seeing 3x the power rms, only possibly on some very short bursts. 20w rms is pretty loud. 80w is the beginning of painful.
I was just throwing numbers out there. My amps push 300x2 for the midbass, 100x4 for the midrange and tweeters and 250x2 for the subs. I have the capacity for 1,500w on the peaks and I doubt it sees 150w rms for the whole system during moderately loud listening.
Jerry/TM- Have you guys thought about the 142 or 430 as a full range? I've run both up to 8khz with no issues. They would have to be on axis obviously. The 430 has an ultra flat FR up to 10khz and I think inductance acts as a lowpass around 12-14khz. There's no klippel for the 142 but it's pretty cheap, has good dispersion, and I can't see any reason it would not play very high. It's like a very large tweeter. No enclosure needed. There was/is a guy selling my old 142s that he never used pretty cheap, I believe $200 for the pair.
07-25-2012, 03:58 PM
#144
Again, the average power might not be very different and most likely not 3x higher with your aftermarket amp. In fact, I doubt average power changed even 15%. Its the fact that the aftermarket amp can cover the peaks so you get better dynamics.
So you go from a 20w amp to an 80w amp, unless you're listening to them at full volume all the time, your stock speakers are not seeing 3x the power rms, only possibly on some very short bursts. 20w rms is pretty loud. 80w is the beginning of painful.
I was just throwing numbers out there. My amps push 300x2 for the midbass, 100x4 for the midrange and tweeters and 250x2 for the subs. I have the capacity for 1,500w on the peaks and I doubt it sees 150w rms for the whole system during moderately loud listening.
So you go from a 20w amp to an 80w amp, unless you're listening to them at full volume all the time, your stock speakers are not seeing 3x the power rms, only possibly on some very short bursts. 20w rms is pretty loud. 80w is the beginning of painful.
I was just throwing numbers out there. My amps push 300x2 for the midbass, 100x4 for the midrange and tweeters and 250x2 for the subs. I have the capacity for 1,500w on the peaks and I doubt it sees 150w rms for the whole system during moderately loud listening.
Cool
Last edited by stevemk07; 07-25-2012 at 04:02 PM.
07-25-2012, 05:34 PM
#145
Team Owner
Thread Starter
You need to find someone in your area with bigger/better speakers and lots of power to understand what I'm talking about. My system isn't about getting loud although that's a nice side benefit. It's about having the headroom to faithfully reproduce the source material. If you ever upgrade, throw a good set of 8s in there and triple your power and you will instantly realize what you're currently missing........ at the same volume level. With the addition of the 10s in the doors it put me that much closer to live concert impact and the best thing is my stage is better than ever since I can cross them lower. My subs added a ton of impact and if I crossed them over higher along with the 6.5" midbass, I had great impact but the stage suffered and I don't like the subs vibrating my seatback plus the subs are hard to tame in the bass/midbass frequencies even with -10db cut.
07-25-2012, 05:59 PM
#146
Not exactly. There's a reason why people go with more power, bigger/better speakers. Say each speaker is getting 20w rms. You have a lightly compressed CD in with good dynamics. The system could require nearly 100-200w for transient peaks to faithfully produce the source material.
You need to find someone in your area with bigger/better speakers and lots of power to understand what I'm talking about. My system isn't about getting loud although that's a nice side benefit. It's about having the headroom to faithfully reproduce the source material. If you ever upgrade, throw a good set of 8s in there and triple your power and you will instantly realize what you're currently missing........ at the same volume level. With the addition of the 10s in the doors it put me that much closer to live concert impact and the best thing is my stage is better than ever since I can cross them lower. My subs added a ton of impact and if I crossed them over higher along with the 6.5" midbass, I had great impact but the stage suffered and I don't like the subs vibrating my seatback plus the subs are hard to tame in the bass/midbass frequencies even with -10db cut.
You need to find someone in your area with bigger/better speakers and lots of power to understand what I'm talking about. My system isn't about getting loud although that's a nice side benefit. It's about having the headroom to faithfully reproduce the source material. If you ever upgrade, throw a good set of 8s in there and triple your power and you will instantly realize what you're currently missing........ at the same volume level. With the addition of the 10s in the doors it put me that much closer to live concert impact and the best thing is my stage is better than ever since I can cross them lower. My subs added a ton of impact and if I crossed them over higher along with the 6.5" midbass, I had great impact but the stage suffered and I don't like the subs vibrating my seatback plus the subs are hard to tame in the bass/midbass frequencies even with -10db cut.
07-25-2012, 06:48 PM
#147
Team Owner
Thread Starter
That's why if I could go back in time and not listen to that SQ truck back in '08 and ChicoOG and Neel's TLs that changed my whole view on audio I would do it. I was perfectly content with stock speakers on a stock amp with a pair of 12s in a box that was too small. That's all you need is to be content. I could care less what other people think of it. However, I do get more joy out of listening to my music now with it being much closer to a live performance than it used to. I find myself driving slower, in no hurry to get to my destination, just enjoying the music.
07-25-2012, 07:09 PM
#148
That's why if I could go back in time and not listen to that SQ truck back in '08 and ChicoOG and Neel's TLs that changed my whole view on audio I would do it. I was perfectly content with stock speakers on a stock amp with a pair of 12s in a box that was too small. That's all you need is to be content. I could care less what other people think of it. However, I do get more joy out of listening to my music now with it being much closer to a live performance than it used to. I find myself driving slower, in no hurry to get to my destination, just enjoying the music.
07-25-2012, 09:35 PM
#149
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I saw Velvet Revolver, the closest I ever got to seeing Gn'R in concert. I also stumbled drunkly into a free Vanilla Ice concert that same weekend lol.
My OCD is bothering me again. I have the gains up and it's sounding so good..... and loud. I have a noise floor that's not noticeable at all.... until I hit the mute button on the MS8. That rules out the amps and probably the MS8. It's so low that I can't tell it's there until I hit the mute. Not sure if I should attempt to "fix" it or leave it alone. With the amount of power on everything, I'm impressed that there's not more of a hiss.
I gave the midbasses a workout with Candlebox on the way home. The drums sound so good. Candlebox seems to have the drums less compressed than most and the system can really take advantage of it. My midranges were getting a good workout as well. There was actually visible excursion on a couple songs with a 320hz highpass. They could be felt in my feet like I didn't have shoes on. I'm running them IB again and I think I like it better when crossing this low. Back when I highpassed them anywhere from 600 to 1,600hz it didn't seem to make a difference if they were enclosed or not.
My OCD is bothering me again. I have the gains up and it's sounding so good..... and loud. I have a noise floor that's not noticeable at all.... until I hit the mute button on the MS8. That rules out the amps and probably the MS8. It's so low that I can't tell it's there until I hit the mute. Not sure if I should attempt to "fix" it or leave it alone. With the amount of power on everything, I'm impressed that there's not more of a hiss.
I gave the midbasses a workout with Candlebox on the way home. The drums sound so good. Candlebox seems to have the drums less compressed than most and the system can really take advantage of it. My midranges were getting a good workout as well. There was actually visible excursion on a couple songs with a 320hz highpass. They could be felt in my feet like I didn't have shoes on. I'm running them IB again and I think I like it better when crossing this low. Back when I highpassed them anywhere from 600 to 1,600hz it didn't seem to make a difference if they were enclosed or not.
07-25-2012, 10:56 PM
#150
I saw Velvet Revolver, the closest I ever got to seeing Gn'R in concert. I also stumbled drunkly into a free Vanilla Ice concert that same weekend lol.
My OCD is bothering me again. I have the gains up and it's sounding so good..... and loud. I have a noise floor that's not noticeable at all.... until I hit the mute button on the MS8. That rules out the amps and probably the MS8. It's so low that I can't tell it's there until I hit the mute. Not sure if I should attempt to "fix" it or leave it alone. With the amount of power on everything, I'm impressed that there's not more of a hiss.
I gave the midbasses a workout with Candlebox on the way home. The drums sound so good. Candlebox seems to have the drums less compressed than most and the system can really take advantage of it. My midranges were getting a good workout as well. There was actually visible excursion on a couple songs with a 320hz highpass. They could be felt in my feet like I didn't have shoes on. I'm running them IB again and I think I like it better when crossing this low. Back when I highpassed them anywhere from 600 to 1,600hz it didn't seem to make a difference if they were enclosed or not.
My OCD is bothering me again. I have the gains up and it's sounding so good..... and loud. I have a noise floor that's not noticeable at all.... until I hit the mute button on the MS8. That rules out the amps and probably the MS8. It's so low that I can't tell it's there until I hit the mute. Not sure if I should attempt to "fix" it or leave it alone. With the amount of power on everything, I'm impressed that there's not more of a hiss.
I gave the midbasses a workout with Candlebox on the way home. The drums sound so good. Candlebox seems to have the drums less compressed than most and the system can really take advantage of it. My midranges were getting a good workout as well. There was actually visible excursion on a couple songs with a 320hz highpass. They could be felt in my feet like I didn't have shoes on. I'm running them IB again and I think I like it better when crossing this low. Back when I highpassed them anywhere from 600 to 1,600hz it didn't seem to make a difference if they were enclosed or not.
07-25-2012, 11:00 PM
#151
Team Owner
Thread Starter
It's so low that you can turn the power on with no music playing and swear you hear no hiss. Then mute it and you notice the difference. No sane person would worry about this amount of hiss. It's literally not noticeable until you manipulate the system to hear it. With any music playing, the hiss is gone obviously.
07-26-2012, 09:14 AM
#152
I don't have hiss, but I believe I have alt. whine. My gains aren't even at 2v like the MS-8 wants, but it's still slightly there in the tweeters. Changes pitch with the rpm's and everything. Can't hear it when the volume is on like 2, but still an annoyance. The system gets plenty loud already too, so I figure it's not a big deal. I thought my ground points were okay, but maybe not.
11-30-2012, 03:11 PM
#153
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Now that I've had these for a while it might be time for a review after living with them for a while.
I've run them as part of a 2-way with no subs and no midrange, just these midbasses and tweeters. They do a surprisingly good job of 35hz to 3khz. No, they won't have the impact and low end ability of a pair of 15s and you're well into beaming at 3khz but they sound surprisingly good. Much more bass than the stock sub, not even comparable. Much better midrange than the stock speakers.
I've tried many different crossover points and currently am running them 60hz to 400hz. I ran them 60-750hz for a long time as well. I've tried higher and lower and the flexibility is amazing. These definitely aren't limited to a narrow bandwidth like a dedicated midrange. Up front bass is greatly improved, I gained some detail in the 60hz area. It's a different sound once your midbass can truly keep up with your subs. Just more realistic.
I like them enough that I'm going to install a set in the GF's Murano. Just these 9s in the doors coupled with the Dyn 102 tweeters hidden in the dash under the stock covers. Nothing will be visible and it will be a 2-way. I'll probably run them 30hz to 2khz and have the tweeters take over from there. She doesn't want anything visible and does not want a sub to take up any space so this seems like the perfect compromise. They will be into their beaming frequency but after running them past 3khz in my car it's not that big of a deal unless you're really into sq. I'm really curious how they're going to perform in that car as a true subless 2-way.
I've run them as part of a 2-way with no subs and no midrange, just these midbasses and tweeters. They do a surprisingly good job of 35hz to 3khz. No, they won't have the impact and low end ability of a pair of 15s and you're well into beaming at 3khz but they sound surprisingly good. Much more bass than the stock sub, not even comparable. Much better midrange than the stock speakers.
I've tried many different crossover points and currently am running them 60hz to 400hz. I ran them 60-750hz for a long time as well. I've tried higher and lower and the flexibility is amazing. These definitely aren't limited to a narrow bandwidth like a dedicated midrange. Up front bass is greatly improved, I gained some detail in the 60hz area. It's a different sound once your midbass can truly keep up with your subs. Just more realistic.
I like them enough that I'm going to install a set in the GF's Murano. Just these 9s in the doors coupled with the Dyn 102 tweeters hidden in the dash under the stock covers. Nothing will be visible and it will be a 2-way. I'll probably run them 30hz to 2khz and have the tweeters take over from there. She doesn't want anything visible and does not want a sub to take up any space so this seems like the perfect compromise. They will be into their beaming frequency but after running them past 3khz in my car it's not that big of a deal unless you're really into sq. I'm really curious how they're going to perform in that car as a true subless 2-way.
12-01-2012, 09:52 AM
#155
Team Owner
Thread Starter
It's surprisingly not bad at all, at least in the TL. I can go loud enough to where it sounds like I have an actual sub with little to no rattles. It's as the frequency climbs that the problem begins. At about 80hz I start getting rattles. By 500hz the door card is beginning to light up despite heavy deadening to the door card as well.
12-01-2012, 11:38 PM
#157
Team Owner
Thread Starter
12-02-2012, 12:04 AM
#159
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