miner

I did not buy a RLX to be a beta-tester - I bought it for the reliability and luxury bang for the $$. The same reason I purchased my '06 and '10 RLs. I have not been disappointed to date.

hondamore

I should correct/clarify my earlier post. The RLX is certainly not a test mule that is intended to work out glitches and experiment with software etc. The RLX is the low-volume flagship whose sales don't justify the R & D of it's cutting edge technology, but its development is vindicated by the sharing of the top-end technology in the future with lower models in the line. If effect, this makes the RLX a "test bed" for higher volume models. It is certainly not a beta-tester and, as the flagship should, will boast some of the best reliability and quality in the industry.

cyph

Plus, you get the added prestige of driving an exclusive car. It's as rare as a Lamborghini or Ferrari on the road (almost). Lots of people checking it out as apparently they've never seen this car before.

When I called around for a tint job, they asked for make and model. I told him it's an RLX and the guy was like, MDX? They've never heard of an RLX before and the car has been out 7 months.

On a side note, I really like the pleather material. My 2007 MDX leather seats are now all wrinkly and hard and has really lost it's leather shine. I will never buy leather again if I have a choice.

fuzzysig

honda is a very stubborn company and only listens to customers after multiple failures like rl and rlx sales numbers. which apparently are still not enough to change their opinion on how much power the flagship sedan needs to have to be competitive

add to the list the desired options such as awd for more models
or turbo (which they FINALLY did)
or just havign options for different drivetrain for cars like tsx ild tl

so people could actually pick options
for example why not offer tsx with a v6 or 4 cylinder and awd option from the begining? they already have crv that has an awd system. its not like they have to start from scratch to make thos options.

stubborness is what kills honda sales numbers.


btw. i bought a 2005 RL. the flagship acura for 4000 bucks
and there are plenty of them for similar price. i dont see any other brand flagship sedans for this price

the resale value of RL and rlx is insanely horrible

Limelight

I don't profess to say that Acura got it right with the rollout of the RLX, but are you citing the purchase of a 12 year old vehicle with untold mileage and condition as proof of a failed model/brand?

wilspainar

258whp seems kind of low considering the V6 TLX with pcd and a Jpipe makes 280whp. On a different note a used RL for $4k isn't a shocker. You can but a bmw 745 for $10k now and when it was new 10 years ago it was $100k.

George Knighton

I still say that they never even intended to sell that many of the 5G Legend.

Saiyama is just not set up for mass production in terms that we would expect to see from a high volume vehicle.

And at the time that the 5G KC2 and KC1 were being finalized as designs, it was not expected that they would be able to get the batteries that would be necessary for high volume production of the KC2...and the KC2 is really the whole point of the design.

Stick your head under one of these cars and take notes on the suspension design.

What in the world were they thinking with that? That's got to cost a fortune, and there's nothing like it this side of the NSX Sport Hybrid.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

ZING!

wilspainar

Care to elaborate on what you meant on the suspension design and it being expensive?

Nexx

I love how you guys trash Acura for the RLX. The RLX/Legend was slammed down Acura's throat by Honda. Acura did not want any part of it. Hence why Acura cares not to put much effort into marketing the RLX if you have not already noticed. We know the damn thing is overpriced, thats really the main problem. Otherwise the car is fantastic in the 45 to 49k range not 56 to 61k

George Knighton

There's two A arms per corner, but it's not a solid piece. It's two different kinds of metal joined together.

Multiple ball joints and pickup points.

That kind of thing.

George Knighton

Aha. :-)

This will help and keep me from having to dig up old posts from 2013.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...alkaround.html

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Double wishbone has been a staple of Honda/Acura and provides great handling

wilspainar

Huh that's pretty thought out. Does the NSX have that much love in it?

fuzzysig

im citing a used car real market value compared to RL's supposed competition from other brands
except maybe the 2004-2009 e350 that is plagued with balance shaft failures and holds similar value to the RL, even though RL has much less engine and drive train problems and e class is not even flagship mercedes.

but i wouldnt even put RL or RLX in a flagship category to be honest its still a one step down from flagship sedans offered by pretty much every other brand
the image of RL as the little engine that couldn't has dragged over to RLX even though honda STUBBORNLY made lame attempts at giving people what they want in terms of size. which still is not what a full size luxury sedan should be it at least grown to the size of an E class and 5 series bmw
even hyundai and kia k900 got it right and it is embarassing to say. i am a honda fan for life and probaby will have to live with the shortcomings of the brand but doesnt mean that i will lie to myself and others and try to say that everything is peachy and i wouldnt wish for a flagship sedan the size of ls460 or kia k900 or hyundai whatever the flagship is.

i mean lets be real here. RLX with more rear seat space and maybe a turbocharged j series would sell much better than RLX selling at the moment. because if people who buy flagship sedans wanted an oversized prius they would buy an oversized prius...
lets also take note how embarased the honda is with RLX they advertize it maybe once a month and try to overcompensate by blowing up the TLX because the RLX is like the retarded older brother that honda tries to keep in the closet

George Knighton

The most important part of it is how it allows cars of all sizes and weights to maintain their composures when bouncing hard over road vagaries or gaters on the track.

Driving an EP3 CTR in the Carousel at Summit Point, there was always a moment when car came down hard off a gater before the left turn...you were never absolutely sure the direction that the car would take. Same thing with the DC5.

But with the DC2 and KC2 (even though the KC2 is pretty slow of course), there is absolute confidence where the car's going to be headed, and you can anticipate the steering angle 100% of the time.

With both the EP3 and DC5, you had this problem of less than ideal range of vertical rear suspension travel, too.

George Knighton

Overseas, they treat the Legend a little differently.

Although video like this is interesting, it's still a huge honkin' 4200#+ vehicle, and in terms of absolute speed it is hard to defeat that handicap, even with whatever suspension you want to talk about.

:-)

George Knighton

The only thing I would presume to point out is that you're expressing your personal opinion as if it were industry fact.

"Flagship" won't mean the same thing to all people at all times, or to all manufacturers at all times.

Colloquially, people say "flagship" to mean a top of the line image vehicle in terms of other vehicles offered in a particular line.

You could as well say that the LS460 is not a real flagship because it's not as big or as good as a Bentley that costs two and a half times the price of the Lexus.

And I don't know about your statement about a turbo'd J Motor, either, inasmuch as Honda and Acura fans have traditionally eschewed blowers for their street cars in favor of the "All Motor" mythology.

It's only in the 2017-2018 model years that you begin to see blowers on regular production Hondas.

I suspect that the 2020 Legend will also be a Sport Hybrid AWD, not a turbocharged or supercharged vehicle.

But, then again, what the hell do I know.

wilspainar

For the EP3 and DC5 is that partly due because how the steering rack is mounted so high? I know I find it rather annoying and it makes me want to sell mine and get a DC2. Also doesn't the KC1 and KC2 have the same setup up front? And the rear being different because of the hybrid system?

George Knighton

It's a combination of things. A high mounted steering rack, a straight up and down strut with very little travel because of the low lid, the tie rod connected to the strut instead of the hub, all that.

It was Honda's first McPherson design. :-)

The suspension was designed with the KC2 in mind, with the result being that some people find the suspension of the KC1 a little harsh, and it's also responsible in part for the clunkiness that some KC1 owners experience.

pgeorg

George in this video I don't see the SH showing any signs of the "switchback" behavior, or oversteering in an erratic manner. Could you explain why this is, especially when pushed so hard? Shouldn't we be seeing that "switchback" behavior happening a lot?

Thanks.

AP8ESQ

i mean lets be real here. RLX with more rear seat space and maybe a turbocharged j series would sell much better than RLX selling at the moment. because if people who buy flagship sedans wanted an oversized prius they would buy an oversized prius...

Oversized Prius? Do you have any real world experience with the RLX Sport Hybrid? Just asking because this comment completely destroys any credibility your argument otherwise may have had...

George Knighton

Pushed to 10/10 in a single curve, I believe you would have seen the nose point in.

It is an interesting video just to get people thinking about what the car can do, but I do not believe that the driver and car were at 10/10.

I'm not presuming to say he was not an excellent driver. I'm just saying that he didn't seem to be at 10/10 in what is apparently just a demonstration video that was made as a part of a series comparing the 5G Legend to the LS600h.

And I hate to use a word like "erratic" when we are talking about a car that we like, but I know what you mean.

He just never put the car in a situation to exhibit what you are talking about. :-)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

LOL dude doesnt know that it has electric motors that pumps out 330 horsies.

George Knighton

The total is 430 HP, and they publish 377 HP.

It's such a strange car.

George Knighton

The comment that pgeorg made refers to posts in other threads in which owners of the KC2 have reported occasional surprise transitions to oversteer, of a sort that might cause concern.

If you're standing outside a KC2 and watching it in a traction circle, you can see that the nose will gradually tuck in, and at 10/10 in a circle or a long U the car will definitely adopt a slight nose-in, oversteering attitude.

This brands the huge KC2 as an enthusiast's car, for sure.

However, whatever it is that some drivers do in quick maneuvers seems to surprise the drivers with a quick change to oversteer, and the car's programming is evidently intended to allow this.

If you know it's happening, you just keep the wheel turned into the corner and the car goes where it should. The wheel's just at a completely different angle from what you'd expect with a front bias car.

If it surprises you too much and you lift or counter steer in a way that the car believes you're trying to straighten the car, then the car's programming interprets this as a signal of trouble and the nanny takes over and straightens the car.

I will also say that in a 10/10 cornering situation, the two motors on the rear can go into a routine where they are switching back and forth quickly in a search for maintaining traction.

If you've ever experienced a high HP FWD track car's LSD switching back and forth for traction, it will feel something like that. Except in the high HP FWD car you will feel it and see it in the steering wheel, whereas in the KC2 you will feel it in the seat of the car more than in the steering wheel.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

regardless of my misinfo, it's still not a prius, like fuzzysig was thinking.

pgeorg

Thank you George for the excellent and detailed explanation. I have experienced this in a HP FWD car with an LSD, so I know how that feels. But I have never experienced this in the KC2......apparently I have never pushed my KC2 10/10, and I am good with that

George Knighton

I've tried to imagine what can cause the quick transition that people are concerned about, and I just don't have enough knowledge to figure it out.

People seem to comment about it more in the weather, and more when they are making a short turn while applying power, like when making a left hand turn in the rain from a stop light that's yellow. If that makes sense.

This is just a guess, but I'm thinking that the inside rear wheel's motor will be in regen/retard/pull mode while the outside wheel is in full push mode, the car not knowing that you're about to start to straighten the wheel.

And I guess that this might require a quick enough reaction from the driver that it can cause concern, or perhaps there is a ⅛ s difference in reaction time between the car and the driver...and if the driver isn't trusting the car 100%, maybe this causes the two to work against each other for a brief moment.

Hell...I don't know. LOL.... :-)

George Knighton

In my case....

I think that perhaps I opened the wheel a little, but it worked out okay. It wasn't any kind of counter steering...just opened the wheel a little.

But it's been a while, and I am old. Perhaps I'm not remembering well.

pgeorg

I've been in those kind of situations, under all kind of inclement conditions. The KC2 just behaves normal every time. Maybe my reactions are too slow, or maybe having different tires then OEM makes a difference.......

One thing I do know is that I don't believe I have pushed the KC2 10/10, or 9/10, or 8/10

pgeorg

Or perhaps you reacted the way the KC2 was expecting you to.....

wilspainar

So if I understand you correctly, if the car oversteers one should just trust the car and not counter steer or lift the car will remain stable. But if you freak out and countersteer/lift the car will correct what you just did and straighten out?

George Knighton

In the exact circumstance we are talking about (and remember we're talking about what people have said in another thread), I think that if you loosen the wheel logically and smoothly, you will get through the maneuver quickly.

I think that if you panic when you realize oversteer has set in, and counter steer so that you appear to be countermanding what the car is doing, of lift the throttle, then the automatic systems will kick in and straighten you out.

This is just me thinking, though, and I have the advantage of what people who drive KC2 have said elsewhere.

There are so many automatic systems and simulated feel in the KC2, smoothness is essential.

The brake pedal feel is not real...it is simulated by a servo. The throttle pedal feel is cushioned and might push back against your input to ask if you're sure.