gauMel

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and hoping some of you can help me out with options. In April 2015 I took over a lease of a 2014 MDX, everything was done through the dealership and after looking at service records of the vehicle and the dealership telling me that the previous lessee was a very good customer of theirs I took over the lease. The vehicle had about 40,000KM on it. In Februry of 2016, I took it for the first oil change at a Jiffy Lube and brought my own oil & filter (Mobil1). I've been using this oil in all my vehicles for the last 20 years. The reason I took it to the place I always bring all my vehicles to in the last 25 years is because my closest Acura dealership is 7 hours away. The Computer indicated that I still had about 20% left on the oil motor oil. The MDX presently has about 55,000 KM on it.

On May 9th, I was driving on a freeway passing 2 transports and I heard a clunk sound and the vehicle's RPM changing. No warnings came on and the vehicle kept going but RPM seemed high. I drove to the nearest city which was about 25 miles away and pulled to a gas station to fill-up. When I restarted the vehicle, the computer displayed a transmission problem. I drove to a nearby's friend place and called Acura Roadside Assitant where the MDX was transported to the nearest dealership (3 hours away). I was left on my own for me and my wife to make it home the rest of the 4 hour drives... Thank God for family and friends.

After several calls to the both the dealership where I signed the lease and where it was towed as well as Honda Customer Service I still do not have my MDX back (June 4th). The dealership where it was towed is saying that the wrong transmission fluid seems to have been added to the transmission which caused the failure and they can't cover the warranty repair. They have passed this on to Honda of Canada. After several call to them and speaking to Rep by the name of Hassan and leaving several messages to call me back on what was happening I've heard nothing! I have recorded the entire process and also audio recorded most of the conversations with all parties. I've also contacted a lawyer thinking that this might be my only choice to pursue.

I would like to know if any of you have any opinions or suggestions that could be useful before I pursue this legally. All I can say is that since I have taken over the lease no one that I've been in contact with has touched the transmission fluid or added anything to it. The reason I specifically go to this Jiffy Lube is that they allow me to be right there under the hood with them. I believe Acura, as many other car manufacturers do, they do NOT WANT TO HONOUR THEIR WARRANTIES. This has left a very sour taste in my month and I will never own another Acura or Honda vehicle in my life after this is all over.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the lengthy post.

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808tesh

If there's any way you can do an oil analysis on the trans / motor oils (checkout a service like Blackstone Labs or similar) - you may want that data for your case.

Taking over a lease doesn't mean the car was truly cared for before you.. and unfortunately with the reputation that Jiffy Lube has in the car community, them making a mistake (even if you were under the car with them) is still a highly likely. It's the reason why dealer service on lease cars is the best way to go.

As far as Acura honoring it's warranties, I've had nothing but great service from my local dealer and Acura Corporate; I've taken my '14 tech in at least 30 times in 2 years (and nearly 55k/miles of driving). Granted, the dealer is on my route, so it makes it very easy vs your distance, which already makes your interaction start on a bad note. Remember that there's two level of warranty denial as well - the dealer may choose not to honor the work, but can be superseded by corporate - that's also if your local dealer is an advocate for you in this situation. If they don't care, then they're not going to push hard enough w/corporate; it's a sad situation there.

1. I'd suggest you call Acura to change your rep to someone who's more attentive
2. good you've documented everything; keep a running excel sheet with costs to date including days lost on your lease
3. good luck!
4. see about transferring your lease to a comparable car instead - if they do that, 'you'll forget about the whole thing and call off the lawyers', is a good bargaining card.

CTNYC

I wouldn't be too quick to blame Acura corporate on not honoring their warranty, especially since you essentially "purchased" this car used. Any idea how long the tranny fluid was in there? Did the previous owner have that serviced at the dealership? If so, the dealership could have potentially put in the wrong fluid, and if that is the case, the dealership would be liable for damages, however, I'm not sure how that would play out since ownership of the car changed. In another case, if the previous owner was a DIY'er and did the tranny fluid change himself and he could have put in the wrong fluid. In addition, as 808tesh mentioned, jiffylube isn't exactly known to have the highest quality people working there or highest quality work. I've heard of a few Nissan's transmissions going after jiffy lube (or another national chain that is similar) put in regular A/T fluid when the Nissans were on CVT fluid.

In this case, there are 4 possible scenarios
1) dealership serviced transmission and used wrong fluid
2) previous owner serviced transmission DIY and used wrong fluid
3) Jiffy lube did a transmission service and used wrong fluid
4) Acura doesn't want to honor warranty claim

I would figure it would be somewhat easy to figure out if it is option 4 (analysis of transmission fluid) - My personal hunch is that they aren't trying to screw you... For Honda/Acura, this would be a drop in the bucket financially and their financials and earnings per car all have a certain amount of money set aside for expected warranty claims, which this would fall under. I honestly think that the most likely possibilities would be option 1 or 2 - from the previous owner. As much as I would not bring my car to Jiffy Lube (not necessarily because I don't trust them, but more because I feel more comfortable taking it to an Acura/Honda Dealership) given your situation where you say you were under the hood with them and more or less watching what they were doing, I don't think they would have given you a free transmission service without charging you. Given the fact that the car has been bough second hand, the dealer might try to deny liability... A lawyer might be able to help you best in this case.

NVAKeith

I would lookup the carfax device history on the car and see if it lists any prior services before you bought it. That might give some insight as to whether the transmission was touched before you bought it. However, not all service providers report their work to carfax....

gauMel

Quick update - after more than 100 days siting at an Acura dealership I'm goin to pick-up my MDX tomorrow! After fighting with Honda for months and getting my own lab to test all 3 of the fluid with almost no doubt (they were almost 99% sure the oil was the same as the correct virgin oil sample sent) that the drained oil from the transmission was the correct oil, Honda agreed to replace the tranny. It took almost a month for the new tranny to get to the dealership. I did change who handled my case from my original complaint at Honda and Chris was pretty good although even after sending their own engineer to the dealership who confirmed that the incorrect oil was used without sending the oil out to be sampled - I assuming he diagnose this the same way the dealership's technician did - by smell. The same day I received the results of the 3 oil samples lab testing and forwarding these result to Honda they reverse their diagnostic and said that their oil sample results were inconclusive that they sent to be tested. Funny that my result were pretty definitive that the correct oil was in that transmission at the time it failed.

Anyways, after close to 4 months, we are getting the repaired MDX back with a new transmission - kind of scare to take the 6 hour drive back home with it!!! Hoping to hear back from Honda in a week or so to finalize this case - still not very happy on how I was treated by the dealerships and Honda Canada.

neoshi

Interesting.. especially considering Honda just issued a TSB about the 14-15 6 speed tranny ATF not performing to expectations and getting burnt early, causing shudders/judders and weird TC behavior. There is something wrong with their ATF for sure.

gauMel

Did you read that new TSB from Honda NEOSHI? Although it states that it covers 2014 - 2016 models when you actually read the bulletin it seems to only talk about the 2016 model - kind of confusing. Made it half-way home to sleep at some family for a quick visit - vehicle's new tranny see's to be performing OK but I seem to now be getting really poor mileage results. Not sure if this is a break in period but my average on a 4 hour road trip, mostly on highways was about 13km/litre - I know I was getting way better than that before the repair. Will run another test in my next trip on Sunday - I have 4 more hours left to travel before getting home on Sunday. Thanks for reading.

neoshi

Yes i have and it actually covers the 2012-2015 mdxes. I'm talking about 16-044 that specifically addresses torque converter judder but the underlying problem is Honda's ATF DW1. I think you may be thinking about another TSB.

sktn77a

In the US, its up to Acura to prove you (or someone) did something to invalidate the warranty. Unless they can prove this, you are entitled to full warranty coverage. I'm not buying their tansmission fluid tale. They probably just want to repair it at customer labor and parts rates and not the manufacturers' warranty rates. Have you seen the latest JD powers quality service reaults? Acura ranked near the bottom!

3.2cls6speedmt

thank you for posting. i am having my mdx flushed right now.

neoshi

Nice. Were you getting a judder? Their TSB makes me think that an ATF drain/refill should actually be done every 30k or so.

gauMel

I didn't notice a judder, it was more like a "clunk" sound or a tranny slip and then high revs when the failure first occurred for me.

gauMel

On another note - I've owned several vehicles in the last 30 years and I can't remember ever owing one that needed a tranny drain/flush every 30, 000 KM. Is it just me or does this sound very unusual for any car manufacturer to have this type of service intervals on transmissions?

3.2cls6speedmt

I was getting a judder at random times. So they flushed the transmission. What I found odd is the service advisor told me that was a permanent fix and totally unaware that this is a software issue. He stated that several other mdx were in for the same problem and he never advised them that is a temporary fix till software update.

3.2cls6speedmt

I agree every 30,000 km is unusual. I do think every 30,000 miles for just a drain and fill is customary.

jzhu625

iTrader: (2)

my 2014 mdx advance is getting the TSB done, it's funny the SA said "he love the internet", the tone sound like he does not want to get it done, perhaps profit from customer more than from TSB?
my car has 27k miles.

3.2cls6speedmt

I think sa commission is greater from customer than warranty work. Will we have to a flush again once the software update is released?

neoshi

SAs... so inept sometimes... really just sales folks who don't understand much about cars, nor about the systems their brand offers them to look up repairs for common issues. An SA really shouldn't make such a comment (the internet one) when there is a legitimate issue like the juddering. Acura does make us do a tech ride along to prove our point anyway, so not sure what his problem is.

Dealers do indeed hate warranty work because of the limited time and payment allowance they have them, so going over the allotments means we're eating $$ out of their revenue. Brands like Hyundai actually took away TSB access from us when we got smart enough to access them and figure out that Hyundai had solutions for our problems and that the only hurdle was the SAs didn't care to look them up or didn't know how to look them up. The one thing they did allow though was diagnosis time, and it seems like Honda doesn't really like to approve diagnosis, so maybe that's why they're so anti warranty work all the time.

3.2cls6speedmt

I love the internet as well. We share information via the internet and don't take what the sa states as fact. Since my sa was convinced that the tranny flush was the fix. I informed him that it is just a band aid. The problem may arise again and they will have to flush again.

jzhu625

iTrader: (2)

yeah, all these TSB get them paid and they should be glad they're getting PAID!

3.2cls6speedmt

especially at a technician's billing rate of $125 a hour. The drain/flush was a 1.4 hours billable.

jzhu625

iTrader: (2)

so i picked up my car, RPM no longer have that "judders" issue, according to their invoice show billed 10 bottles but here's the funny thing, i have dash installed, i was really hopping to see if they drive on the lift 3 times and speed over 50mph, that's in order gets into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear get the TC locked, they UNPLUGGED THE POWER OF MY CAMERA!!!!

i called my SA and left a voicemail, i'm sure he'll call me back. should i even ask why they had to unplug my camera?

3.2cls6speedmt

I think you should. My transmission has improved after the flush at only 20,000 miles. I wonder when the software update will be released.

smcanada99

Hello Guys I am a newbie and I am writing this post because I have a leased 2014 MDX Teck package in Ontario Canada. My Mdx; regardless of the steering grunt noise and other TSB issues was very precious to my wife and I as we found it to be the best amongst our top choices and the next best thing after a Honda Odyssey or pilot. Anyways I leased it in May 2014 and the lease will be up in the next 10 months.

I leased the Acura with the intention of buying it out and recently every morning it had a serious jerk from 1st to 2nd gear and it went away and did not do it the rest of the day. My wife use to complain before I noticed this that it does not drive the same way on the highway and at the cruising speed of 100 to 110 Km/h it did not feel as powerful (lose of the feeling of torque when putting the foot down) as it did before and felt like it had a really bad lag.

Anyways my front and back rotors always gave me problems and were machined and replaced even after the braking servicing couple of times and I called my contact at the dealership and he said to bring it in and he would take a look. I went in for an oil change and mentioned all the issues with the rotors and the tranny jerk and that seem to make the guy freeze like I said something that was taboo.

Then he explained to me that there is TSB and the solution to it is 3 X fluid flush and software update. Long story short all that could be done is done according to TSB they also did a computer reading on a road test (which was performed after I drove the SUV for 1000 kms after the TSB including the software update) as it is a learning tranny and all. They found nothing wrong and said everything is okay.

The driving characteristic of the vehicle is completely changed it does not drive like the aggressive rocket it use to be when I first got it. It felt like a rocket new and now it feels like a four banger just makes noise and rpm goes up but takes a while for the vehicle to get going (FYI, the tranny is not slipping for sure). Also sometimes i still feel the jerky gear shifts especially from 1st to 2nd. The jerks are subtle not as obvious as before but new things have happened since the update.

1) it up shifts to the highest gear as soon as possible and i believe its called the Torque converter lock. so the responsiveness of the car is gone
2) around 80 Km/h and 110km/h the car has vibration (which is according to the dealership after road test and computer analysis is VCM induced)

So the bottom line is with these issues with the 6 speed tranny I guess buying it out after the lease is up is out of the question. Correct? and secondly I have the opportunity to buy the extended acura warranty before it hits 80K kms for about 3K which I think covers till the suv bumper to bumbper 8 years and 150K kms.

My lease ends in May of 2018 so what would be the smart thing to do as I do not see whole lot of people on forums complaining about the 6 speed as much as the 9 spd.

Should I hope for another software update and buy warranty and buy car out and drive it for another four years?
Should I trade it for a new 2017 MDX lease now?
Should I just drive it till the end of the lease without warranty and return it and get 2018 MDX or whatever else makes sense next year as the 9 spd is not that great either and that is according to the dealer?
All and all very disappointing that my this is happening and is a prevalent problem with Honda and Acura products! Why does other manufacturers granted only few get the power train of products year after year where as Honda is on a new Tranny yet again for 2018.