Air Filter
12-08-2012, 03:36 PM
#1
2nd Gear
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Air Filter
Hello,
It seems oil and oil filter are easy to come by. I can't find a air filter for my vehicle. If anyone knows a air filter that will work please let me know.
Thank you.
It seems oil and oil filter are easy to come by. I can't find a air filter for my vehicle. If anyone knows a air filter that will work please let me know.
Thank you.
12-13-2012, 06:23 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I've been looking. Apparently K&N doesn't make one.
04-17-2013, 08:38 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
04-18-2013, 01:43 PM
#4
I remember a debate on the TL forum long time ago about a K&N filter and an OEM filter. Apparently K&N filters allow more air to pass through but its not even noticeable compared to an OEM filter. OEM filter turned out to be pretty decent and still allowed good airflow. No reason really to go with K&N
04-18-2013, 02:29 PM
#5
Car Crazy for Sure!
I remember a debate on the TL forum long time ago about a K&N filter and an OEM filter. Apparently K&N filters allow more air to pass through but its not even noticeable compared to an OEM filter. OEM filter turned out to be pretty decent and still allowed good airflow. No reason really to go with K&N
Recently I put one in my '13 TSX....and this is the first car/suv/truck that I really noticed a difference. The throttle response is much better, acceleration is better, and overall I am very impressed on what it did for the TSX. Again, I do know that "feeling" the difference can be different depending on the vehicle.
I have been toying with putting one in my RDX. I still have the one from my '12 Accord 3.5 V6....and hoped it might be the same fitment...but, no such luck.
04-18-2013, 02:33 PM
#6
this article proves that there isnt any gains to be had with a kn filter.
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
Very nice. It backs up what I've been trying to tell people for years. K&Ns are good for keeping rocks and birds out, that's about it. They load up quicker as well. The stock filters cause no restriction so a higher flowing filter can not increase power if the stock one does not present a restriction in the first place. The stockish filters as they load up have a more linear air restriction while the K&N's flow goes down quickly.
The Amsoil filter in that test is the old series, not the awesome EAO filters.
This is why I use OEM Acura filters. They filter the best, they have a silicone seal that won't fall apart, and that style of filter flters better as it gets dirty unlike the K&N. It doesn't pose a restriction to my engine so why would I go with a higher flowing filter that will do nothing but let considerably more dirt in and cause cylinder and ring wear as well as dirty oil.
Some will say "my car has gone 500,000 miles with a K&N" and some cars in some areas hardly need an air filter but if you live in a dusty area like I do, the air filter is the most important filter on the vehicle as far as engine life is concerned. Look at the quality of the OEM Honda filters, they obviously thought it was of high importance considering it made it past the penny pinchers.
And before anyone says it, it is 100% impossible for an air filter no matter how restrictive or free flowing to affect your mpg, a restrictive filter can only affect your full throttle power.
Good thread.
The Amsoil filter in that test is the old series, not the awesome EAO filters.
This is why I use OEM Acura filters. They filter the best, they have a silicone seal that won't fall apart, and that style of filter flters better as it gets dirty unlike the K&N. It doesn't pose a restriction to my engine so why would I go with a higher flowing filter that will do nothing but let considerably more dirt in and cause cylinder and ring wear as well as dirty oil.
Some will say "my car has gone 500,000 miles with a K&N" and some cars in some areas hardly need an air filter but if you live in a dusty area like I do, the air filter is the most important filter on the vehicle as far as engine life is concerned. Look at the quality of the OEM Honda filters, they obviously thought it was of high importance considering it made it past the penny pinchers.
And before anyone says it, it is 100% impossible for an air filter no matter how restrictive or free flowing to affect your mpg, a restrictive filter can only affect your full throttle power.
Good thread.
Just to clarify so I don't mislead anyone, the stock filter is no restriction when the engine is stock and with basic bolt ons. Obviously a turbo or supercharged TL will lose power from a stock filter. Most OEM filters are sufficiently oversized so you don't lose power as they get dirty from normal use and no OEM is going to leave power on the table in the form of a filter after hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D in the engine, extracting as much power as they reasonably can and then leave power behind because of a piece of $.10 paper was too small when it costs them practically zero money to make it flow better.
There were examples of this back in the old days when you could gain 50hp from a filter and exhaust with a 7.0L blowing through a single 1.25" exhaust but these days they do a great job of extracting as much power as possible.
There were examples of this back in the old days when you could gain 50hp from a filter and exhaust with a 7.0L blowing through a single 1.25" exhaust but these days they do a great job of extracting as much power as possible.
Yeah, they're pretty much stuck with the cats. The bend from the heads to the cat could've been a little nicer but not a lot to gain without getting rid of the converter.
The heads seem to flow extremely well as is, even with the exhaust merged inside of the head. It's done to keep as much heat in the exhaust as possible for quick cat lightoff. A shorter exhaust path and no surface area for it to cool before reaching the cat helps a lot in lightoff time.
The only real solution for Acura to free up the exhaust while retaining the same emissions standards is to add another couple cats in parallel which isn't going to happen.
The heads seem to flow extremely well as is, even with the exhaust merged inside of the head. It's done to keep as much heat in the exhaust as possible for quick cat lightoff. A shorter exhaust path and no surface area for it to cool before reaching the cat helps a lot in lightoff time.
The only real solution for Acura to free up the exhaust while retaining the same emissions standards is to add another couple cats in parallel which isn't going to happen.
04-18-2013, 03:42 PM
#7
Car Crazy for Sure!
I read the tests done with a diesel engine. Not disputing them....just saying that I don't believe the "true comparison" to a 4 cyl. gas engine...or a 6 or even 8 cyl. gas car/suv engine can rely on this test the same way.
To say that a K&N type filter has "no gains to be had" is not true. I've been part of dyno tests with different cars....stock and otherwise at the K&N facility in Riverside, CA. They have their own in house dyno. I've seen the HP gains....with no other changes other than removing the stock filter and replacing with the K&N.
My own TSX has much quicker response than it did before. That's a fact....I've owned over 60 vehicles and taught gas, diesel, and turbine engines during my career. I know when a factory street car performs better or not.
Diesel engines require a massive amount of "intake air." That's why you will always find huge air filters used on them....the larger the diesel the larger the air filter AND they are then doubled up to handle the airflow.
K&N filters are high quality....their seals are tight and they are warrantied for life basically. Quality control is high. Oiled properly they collect the dirt to protect the gas engines of our cars.
Review the long term complaints...and all manufacturers have complainers....of the K&N. It's not that engines were destroyed because they didn't stop the dirt...it was that when over oiled they could allow some depositing of oil particles on the mass air flow sensors. That has been litigated and cleared up.
In extremely dusty conditions...ANY filter, no matter who makes them, has to be replaced...or serviced...as in the K&N much more often than "clean areas." Factory air filters can't handle the extremes either.....they must be changed often. The K&N must be cleaned and re-oiled more often....and it will be very dirty.
K&N air filters are designed for virtually any kind of engine and are used around the globe. IF they were allowing so much dirt into engines and destroying them, K&N would be sued to oblivion.
There are 2 sides to every issue. But, your diesel report does not give a true comparison or factual analysis to use when understanding the benefits to our car/suv/van engines.
Again, I'm not "throwing out" the testing you showed us....but, again, there millions of K&N's used throughout the world, and for many years. IF they were so bad at stopping dirt, etc. they would be out of business by all the law suits, etc.
Just saying!
To say that a K&N type filter has "no gains to be had" is not true. I've been part of dyno tests with different cars....stock and otherwise at the K&N facility in Riverside, CA. They have their own in house dyno. I've seen the HP gains....with no other changes other than removing the stock filter and replacing with the K&N.
My own TSX has much quicker response than it did before. That's a fact....I've owned over 60 vehicles and taught gas, diesel, and turbine engines during my career. I know when a factory street car performs better or not.
Diesel engines require a massive amount of "intake air." That's why you will always find huge air filters used on them....the larger the diesel the larger the air filter AND they are then doubled up to handle the airflow.
K&N filters are high quality....their seals are tight and they are warrantied for life basically. Quality control is high. Oiled properly they collect the dirt to protect the gas engines of our cars.
Review the long term complaints...and all manufacturers have complainers....of the K&N. It's not that engines were destroyed because they didn't stop the dirt...it was that when over oiled they could allow some depositing of oil particles on the mass air flow sensors. That has been litigated and cleared up.
In extremely dusty conditions...ANY filter, no matter who makes them, has to be replaced...or serviced...as in the K&N much more often than "clean areas." Factory air filters can't handle the extremes either.....they must be changed often. The K&N must be cleaned and re-oiled more often....and it will be very dirty.
K&N air filters are designed for virtually any kind of engine and are used around the globe. IF they were allowing so much dirt into engines and destroying them, K&N would be sued to oblivion.
There are 2 sides to every issue. But, your diesel report does not give a true comparison or factual analysis to use when understanding the benefits to our car/suv/van engines.
Again, I'm not "throwing out" the testing you showed us....but, again, there millions of K&N's used throughout the world, and for many years. IF they were so bad at stopping dirt, etc. they would be out of business by all the law suits, etc.
Just saying!
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04-18-2013, 04:39 PM
#8
Car Crazy for Sure!
I just wanted to add some facts about the K&N diesel filters.
They have a new "Hybrid Filter" that was designed for Class 6-8 turbo diesels, over the road trucks, agriculture and earth moving equipment and diesel motor homes.
These new filters were designed to ISO 5011 specs using "Fine Grade Test Dust" to comply.
These are "no oil" needed or used....they are cleaned by washing, controlled pressure cleaning.
IF earth movers with diesel engines in constant dust and dirty air quality conditions can use these filters.....then, uhhh, I think they are good to go!! They meet ISO 5011 fine dust standards.
That's good enough for me.
K&N filters are certified for use in all 50 states for new vehicles.
Again, IF these filters did not properly clean the intake air of a diesel engine in an earth moving piece of equipment.....don't you just think that the owner of that incredibly expensive machine would sue the hell out of them IF they didn't do their job as advertised??
They are also the "official air filter for NASCAR."
I'd trust them in my Ferrari once I buy one!!
Take care!
They have a new "Hybrid Filter" that was designed for Class 6-8 turbo diesels, over the road trucks, agriculture and earth moving equipment and diesel motor homes.
These new filters were designed to ISO 5011 specs using "Fine Grade Test Dust" to comply.
These are "no oil" needed or used....they are cleaned by washing, controlled pressure cleaning.
IF earth movers with diesel engines in constant dust and dirty air quality conditions can use these filters.....then, uhhh, I think they are good to go!! They meet ISO 5011 fine dust standards.
That's good enough for me.
K&N filters are certified for use in all 50 states for new vehicles.
Again, IF these filters did not properly clean the intake air of a diesel engine in an earth moving piece of equipment.....don't you just think that the owner of that incredibly expensive machine would sue the hell out of them IF they didn't do their job as advertised??
They are also the "official air filter for NASCAR."
I'd trust them in my Ferrari once I buy one!!
Take care!
04-18-2013, 06:01 PM
#9
Racer
The Honda/Acura engineers that designed and tested the engines seem to think the Acura filter is best for the engine, MPG, performance, etc just like the they recommend Premium gas. If we depend on them to be right about the gas why wouldn't we depend on them to be right about the filter. I find it hard to believe that the "engineers" at K&N filters are that much better than the engineers at Honda/Acura. If it was that easy to better performance it seems as if the Acura guys would have spent an extra $50 over and above the stock to put different air filters in all the vehicles. Doesn't seem like the cost would be prohibitive if done on a large scale. Just wondering why some think they are so right in octane but so wrong in another major area like air intake.
04-18-2013, 06:39 PM
#10
Car Crazy for Sure!
The Honda/Acura engineers that designed and tested the engines seem to think the Acura filter is best for the engine, MPG, performance, etc just like the they recommend Premium gas. If we depend on them to be right about the gas why wouldn't we depend on them to be right about the filter. I find it hard to believe that the "engineers" at K&N filters are that much better than the engineers at Honda/Acura. If it was that easy to better performance it seems as if the Acura guys would have spent an extra $50 over and above the stock to put different air filters in all the vehicles. Doesn't seem like the cost would be prohibitive if done on a large scale. Just wondering why some think they are so right in octane but so wrong in another major area like air intake.
Main reason to cover your point....cost. They can also make money off the replaceable filters....charge much more than what it cost to make them. So, if they put a K&N in all the cars...it would cost the manufacturer a ton....and there would be no one lining up at the Parts Dept. asking for replacement filters. They'll be home cleaning theirs and reusing them year after year.
One factory car I know of that leaves the Ford factory with a cold air K&N filter....and there probably are other vehicles I don't know about that have closed air box K&N filters in them.....is the Mustang GT500. Not a largely mass produced car.....so they put in the expensive filter....but, you do pay for it within the total price of the car. And, the last air filter you will need for that Mustang.
So, you see, it can be done....it is done...you just have to pay for it.....the car is expensive.
Is the RDX filter good enough....yes it is. Can you buy a better one...yes you can. It's that simple...and it's common sense. There are many parts on a new vehicle that can be replaced with a better built component. Are the factory ones good enough....yes they are....are there better ones....of course there are.
Last edited by Colorado Guy AF Ret.; 04-18-2013 at 06:49 PM.
04-18-2013, 06:54 PM
#11
If I had a cold air intake then I would probably go with a K&N, but if its just a drop in to replace the oem filter I wouldnt even bother. I havent used a K&N in a long time and I remember the filters had like a thin layer of oil or something coating them. Made me question how quick the filter would clog up. I didnt like that too much. I wish I could find that debate I was talking about in the TL forum, but I dont think I ever bothered with making a post. Good discussion though.
No reason to really start another debate here, to each their own. But I dont think its worth it. Not for an extra 4 horsepower that they "claim" they give
No reason to really start another debate here, to each their own. But I dont think its worth it. Not for an extra 4 horsepower that they "claim" they give
04-18-2013, 07:05 PM
#12
Car Crazy for Sure!
If I had a cold air intake then I would probably go with a K&N, but if its just a drop in to replace the oem filter I wouldnt even bother. I havent used a K&N in a long time and I remember the filters had like a thin layer of oil or something coating them. Made me question how quick the filter would clog up. I didnt like that too much. I wish I could find that debate I was talking about in the TL forum, but I dont think I ever bothered with making a post. Good discussion though.
No reason to really start another debate here, to each their own. But I dont think its worth it. Not for an extra 4 horsepower that they "claim" they give
No reason to really start another debate here, to each their own. But I dont think its worth it. Not for an extra 4 horsepower that they "claim" they give
And the key point you are missing....never have to buy another filter. If done right, the oil is not that big a deal....used lightly, and yes, it gets dirty. That's a good thing! It's getting the dirt and dust. It takes me a few short minutes to clean the filter, and spray on a light coat of the oil. Let it dry and you're ready to go....in less time it takes you to drive to the auto parts store and buy a replacement factory type filter.
04-19-2013, 09:53 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
I've used K&N filters in three vehicles. In each I gained a solid 10-15% increase in gas mileage, slightly improved off idle response, and improved engine sound.
It's not scientific but my experience.
It's not scientific but my experience.
04-19-2013, 11:01 AM
#15
Racer
That's ridiculous. If a simple filter change could increase MPG like that it would be headline news around the world and everybody and there brother would be changing them out.
04-19-2013, 12:09 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
10-15% is only 2-3mpg. Regardless of what you think, that's what I'm getting.
04-19-2013, 12:26 PM
#17
Racer
I don't mean to be disrectful but I just find it impossible to believe on the MPG side. Now maybe a little more HP from easier air flow possibly but not a huge 10%-15% jump in MPG. And anyway, who would really notice a 4hp increase anyway. That is only a little more than 1% boost in a RDX. I don't think most drivers would notice a 4hp boost or a loss of 4hp either.
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justnspace (04-19-2013)
04-19-2013, 12:45 PM
#19
Car Crazy for Sure!
I will add this and see if it makes sense.
The added mpg that MIGHT be gained would come from the HP gain. Now if you could run the vehicle over a flat road at a steady speed for a long distance....with the factory filter and then repeat with the K&N you could possibly see an uptick in mpg.
You're right about ways car manufacturers are finding to gain mpg. I do see the change in the stock air filters vs many years ago....so maybe they are doing that too to gain a slight advantage...as they are in other areas. All added together it looks good for the vehicle overall.
Personally, I use them for the better throttle response...and I certainly got that in my TSX. Even my wife noticed it...and she is NOT a mechanically inclined person at all. She said it's more fun to drive with the "off the line" performance. That let me know I wasn't having "wishful thinking" when I felt it had a more instant throttle response. And the more I drive it the more I know it does.
Let's look at the Mustang GT500. Comes from the factory with cold air K&N filter system. I believe for "both HP and mpg gains." They've done a lot to get the HP but, also they didn't want that engine to get 10 mpg either! It does pretty good when cruising and your foot is not in it all the time....for a 662 hp engine.
The added mpg that MIGHT be gained would come from the HP gain. Now if you could run the vehicle over a flat road at a steady speed for a long distance....with the factory filter and then repeat with the K&N you could possibly see an uptick in mpg.
You're right about ways car manufacturers are finding to gain mpg. I do see the change in the stock air filters vs many years ago....so maybe they are doing that too to gain a slight advantage...as they are in other areas. All added together it looks good for the vehicle overall.
Personally, I use them for the better throttle response...and I certainly got that in my TSX. Even my wife noticed it...and she is NOT a mechanically inclined person at all. She said it's more fun to drive with the "off the line" performance. That let me know I wasn't having "wishful thinking" when I felt it had a more instant throttle response. And the more I drive it the more I know it does.
Let's look at the Mustang GT500. Comes from the factory with cold air K&N filter system. I believe for "both HP and mpg gains." They've done a lot to get the HP but, also they didn't want that engine to get 10 mpg either! It does pretty good when cruising and your foot is not in it all the time....for a 662 hp engine.
04-24-2013, 12:46 AM
#20
Car Crazy for Sure!
Mine will be here Thurs. and when I have info. on IF I believe the engine response is better....and it's already damn good....I will report what I have. Again, I KNOW my TSX definitely is quicker off the line and more responsive when the throttle is applied. It will take a few weeks to get a good feel for any gas mileage increases.
04-24-2013, 09:49 AM
#21
I can add this to the discussion. Back in 92 I had a Jeep Wrangler. I had it lifted and wearing 32" tires (actual measured diameter, for reference the stock units were 26"). I also added a lot of weight with body armor, tire carrier, full skids under the frame etc. The jeep was asked to run around town with all this extra stuff hung on it and the poor little 2.5 liter in it could only pull like 15 m.p.g.. So I went to work with bolt on's under the hood. I added an aftermarket ignition system, some fancy plugs and wires, a K&N (I also drilled the bottom of the air box), and a new exhaust system. Mileage went up to about 18 m.p.g. in town after the mods, effectively negating the weight added to the Jeep. Now, getting on the highway was a different story...top speed was around 62 mph and fifth gear couldn't hold speed at any engine rpm.
So from that anecdote, I can say I've used a K&N in conjunction with other mods, and seen MPG gains. Truthfully the gains probably came from the exhaust side, but the K&N was part of the system and may have helped a bit.
I've also put a K&N in my G35 coupe. I can't say it did a damn thing except save me money on filters and make the car louder. The filter was bought for $15 used from another guy who tried it and was unimpressed.
So from that anecdote, I can say I've used a K&N in conjunction with other mods, and seen MPG gains. Truthfully the gains probably came from the exhaust side, but the K&N was part of the system and may have helped a bit.
I've also put a K&N in my G35 coupe. I can't say it did a damn thing except save me money on filters and make the car louder. The filter was bought for $15 used from another guy who tried it and was unimpressed.
04-25-2013, 11:14 PM
#22
Car Crazy for Sure!
As I've said before....the results can vary, and some engines don't benefit that much, and other's enough to feel the difference in performance. The dyno shows the hp gain. Now if it's a 3-4 hp gain...no, you most likely won't feel it in the car. Some engines have gained approx. 12-15 hp. And some even more. That's noticeable.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
04-27-2013, 01:52 AM
#23
Car Crazy for Sure!
I drove my RDX today with the K&N installed. For me....I think it jumps off the line even quicker than it did before. This RDX amazed me before on how quick geared it is off the line in first and second gears. Now is seems to really jump even quicker down the street. It launches off the stop light quicker than some of my past automatic Mustangs. It just puts the power down...no tire slip and just flat digs and goes.
I'm having fun with it....and have left some challengers way behind. With the normal "growl" it has...now the added engine breathing through the K&N is heard even more than before. This thing is like an entry level luxury SUV...."hot rod." Fun to drive fast.
I'm having fun with it....and have left some challengers way behind. With the normal "growl" it has...now the added engine breathing through the K&N is heard even more than before. This thing is like an entry level luxury SUV...."hot rod." Fun to drive fast.
04-28-2013, 01:34 PM
#24
Car Crazy for Sure!
Just confirming...the K&N part # for the '13 RDX is: 33-2489. Order direct from them and shipping is free. http://www.knfilters.coom
04-28-2013, 09:24 PM
#25
Instructor
Just confirming...the K&N part # for the '13 RDX is: 33-2489. Order direct from them and shipping is free. http://www.knfilters.coom
How much louder is normal acceleration from inside?
I do like how the RDX growls but prefer to keep things quiet in normal day to day driving.
04-28-2013, 09:35 PM
#26
Car Crazy for Sure!
Otherwise you won't hear any difference.
04-30-2013, 01:56 PM
#27
Car Crazy for Sure!
Just for note: The '13 RDX K&N air box filter....33-2489 ONLY fits that application. There are other part #'s for similar Honda V6's.
And to be fair....there are no absolutes...normally....referring to a previous statement here that "air filters don't increase mpg." Closely quoted.
I know that it has happened...but, not so much "normal" as is the hp and torque gains.
K&N does advertise and back up with dyno tests....mostly, but not totally, with their "cold air units".....that the filters are designed to add hp and torque. I cannot find anyplace where they talk about mpg increases....but, I'm sure in some engines it does happen, no matter how small the % might be.
They tend to dyno cold air intake systems more than the "in box" filters....but, they also have been measured to increase air flow, hp, and torque.
The torque is what I really have noticed on my TSX and RDX taking off from a start. Just the throttle response is enough to make me buy one and enjoy it. And again....many here miss the point....for the price of two throw away factory filters I bought a K&N that will last longer than I will!!!!
And to be fair....there are no absolutes...normally....referring to a previous statement here that "air filters don't increase mpg." Closely quoted.
I know that it has happened...but, not so much "normal" as is the hp and torque gains.
K&N does advertise and back up with dyno tests....mostly, but not totally, with their "cold air units".....that the filters are designed to add hp and torque. I cannot find anyplace where they talk about mpg increases....but, I'm sure in some engines it does happen, no matter how small the % might be.
They tend to dyno cold air intake systems more than the "in box" filters....but, they also have been measured to increase air flow, hp, and torque.
The torque is what I really have noticed on my TSX and RDX taking off from a start. Just the throttle response is enough to make me buy one and enjoy it. And again....many here miss the point....for the price of two throw away factory filters I bought a K&N that will last longer than I will!!!!
04-30-2013, 02:08 PM
#28
^to counter your points; have you have ever seen a dyno done not by the air filter manufacture?
meaning; you can skew a dyno to read any which way you want.
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...Lmk1OrUjCE6Qpg
meaning; you can skew a dyno to read any which way you want.
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...Lmk1OrUjCE6Qpg
Last edited by justnspace; 04-30-2013 at 02:11 PM.
04-30-2013, 02:28 PM
#29
Car Crazy for Sure!
^to counter your points; have you have ever seen a dyno done not by the air filter manufacture?
meaning; you can skew a dyno to read any which way you want.
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...Lmk1OrUjCE6Qpg
meaning; you can skew a dyno to read any which way you want.
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...Lmk1OrUjCE6Qpg
Now you want to de-legitimize the dyno operators....whatever....I guess we just should not trust anyone....right??? Only you.
NASCAR is using K&N...some new cars are leaving the factory with them....they are used world wide for various reasons. They are now being used by Aston Martin for their cars racing in the GT Series....the AMA racing bikes are using them.....DO I NEED TO GO ON? Fact check this all you want....I did.
So, you can continue to make light of what they offer....the proof is in what I just wrote above. If they weren't worth the help in performance they wouldn't be using them. Period...'nuff said. Unless you want to try and poke holes in that too....Is that all you are here for???
04-30-2013, 02:31 PM
#30
Car Crazy for Sure!
^filters cannot increase MPG.
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
Here are your 2 quotes...so, which is it?? What am I missing? What don't I understand here? I was a certified engine trainer; gas, diesel, and turbine. Ground based equipment and aircraft. So, what don't I understand about what you are "trying" to teach us here????
also; on a fuel injected computer controlled gasoline engine, it is impossible to gain MPG from a clean new air filter.
on a carbureted engine; yes.
Here are your 2 quotes...so, which is it?? What am I missing? What don't I understand here? I was a certified engine trainer; gas, diesel, and turbine. Ground based equipment and aircraft. So, what don't I understand about what you are "trying" to teach us here????
Last edited by Colorado Guy AF Ret.; 04-30-2013 at 02:37 PM.
05-01-2013, 02:58 PM
#32
Car Crazy for Sure!
Your integrity...??? Not sure what you mean there. You keep saying that dyno's...and operators are always...not your words...but, you imply that they can't be trusted. Whatever. No facts...just your "feelings" I guess.
If hp and torque are not gained by these filters....then why would Aston Martin, the AMA racing circuit.....NASCAR use them?? Please...spare me about "dyno operators"...etc. They work as designed. Adding hp and torque.
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5 Acuras (08-30-2013)
05-22-2013, 12:15 PM
#33
Advanced
Although I’m now retired, I’ve worked on cars my whole life. I’ve worked on thousands of cars, repairing rebuilding and blue-printing engines. While everyone knows that on carbureted engines you can increase HP by changing the stock exhaust and intake air system to a free flow system (which is probably illegal in many states today), some of the claims being made for K&N air filters appear to be greatly exaggerated. In addition, with computer controlled fuel injection, the increased air flow would probably be seen by the CPU as too lean and adjust it back to the factory pre-programmed specs. If you REALLY want to increase HP, you need to use a custom programmed CPU.
What I do agree with is that factory OEM filters aren’t necessarily the “best” you can get, it’s what gets the job adequately done at the LOWEST cost.
What I do agree with is that factory OEM filters aren’t necessarily the “best” you can get, it’s what gets the job adequately done at the LOWEST cost.
The following 2 users liked this post by techman707:
geocord (05-22-2013),
justnspace (05-22-2013)
05-22-2013, 01:25 PM
#34
Instructor
On my boosted engines I did see a slight gain in MPG and definitely better throttle response, however I don't think the RDX will benefit much.
As for racing, that's a different animal. I'm willing to bet they clean the filter after every race, not the same as people driving on them for years. That's not to say that K&N are bad, but I don't think in this case racing translates well to every day driving.
And as for the excuse of "Acura engineers designed it with the paper OEM", they are bound by cost. Sure they can put a K&N in there and then say you have to clean it and re-oil it every XXXX miles, but for the general population, are they really going to bother? Much easier and cheaper to get a paper filter and just replace it. K&N better? Maybe. Paper more practical? Definitely.
Like who the hell thought it was a great idea to use a vacuum pump to actuate the door locks in my Audi is beyond me...
As for racing, that's a different animal. I'm willing to bet they clean the filter after every race, not the same as people driving on them for years. That's not to say that K&N are bad, but I don't think in this case racing translates well to every day driving.
And as for the excuse of "Acura engineers designed it with the paper OEM", they are bound by cost. Sure they can put a K&N in there and then say you have to clean it and re-oil it every XXXX miles, but for the general population, are they really going to bother? Much easier and cheaper to get a paper filter and just replace it. K&N better? Maybe. Paper more practical? Definitely.
Like who the hell thought it was a great idea to use a vacuum pump to actuate the door locks in my Audi is beyond me...
Last edited by Dimcorner; 05-22-2013 at 01:28 PM.
11-11-2013, 12:35 PM
#35
Intermediate
I've used K&N filters on various cars and motorcycles with heavily modified engines that were used on the track, and I've dyno-tested the K&N. And yes, I've seen a marginal increase in horsepower on the dyno. Similarly, I haven't noticed it especially with a K&N, but I have seen an improvement in MPG switching to a fresh air filter from a dirty one, so a higher-flowing K&N should do the same thing.
HOWEVER... after years of use, I recently junked all my K&Ns. The reason is that the K&Ns don't filter as well as paper filters. I know this because on my track vehicles I also have my oil tested and analyzed with every change (via Blackstone Labs), and you can actually see the poor filtration in the engine oil. One of the measurements in UOA (used oil analysis) is silica (i.e. sand) that is suspended in the oil. After switching to K&N, the silica level spiked above recommended levels. It wasn't THAT bad, so it didn't bother me too much until I moved to Arizona, where there's a lot of dust in the air and I saw my silica levels jump even higher than usual. Enough that it worried me. So now I'm back to OEM and doing fine. (Note - This is for a WRX turbo engine making 375HP vs 225HP stock.) Having looked at a number of other UOAs from other drivers with similar results, I'm pretty comfortable that these results aren't unique to me. YMMV.
I just picked up a fresh air filter from the dealer -- price was reasonable and it's an easy change. Ditto the cabin air filter -- super-easy to change, just pop off the cover in the glove box and swap it out... takes 5 minutes.
Ted
HOWEVER... after years of use, I recently junked all my K&Ns. The reason is that the K&Ns don't filter as well as paper filters. I know this because on my track vehicles I also have my oil tested and analyzed with every change (via Blackstone Labs), and you can actually see the poor filtration in the engine oil. One of the measurements in UOA (used oil analysis) is silica (i.e. sand) that is suspended in the oil. After switching to K&N, the silica level spiked above recommended levels. It wasn't THAT bad, so it didn't bother me too much until I moved to Arizona, where there's a lot of dust in the air and I saw my silica levels jump even higher than usual. Enough that it worried me. So now I'm back to OEM and doing fine. (Note - This is for a WRX turbo engine making 375HP vs 225HP stock.) Having looked at a number of other UOAs from other drivers with similar results, I'm pretty comfortable that these results aren't unique to me. YMMV.
I just picked up a fresh air filter from the dealer -- price was reasonable and it's an easy change. Ditto the cabin air filter -- super-easy to change, just pop off the cover in the glove box and swap it out... takes 5 minutes.
Ted
11-11-2013, 04:10 PM
#36
Over oiled K&N filters can raise problems with the mass airflow sensors getting coated with the excess oil. I used a K&N filter once, and it was more work than it was work (cleaning, drying, and re-oiling).
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