2ndgentl

I don't know what my IAT temp is. How would do I check it? Also, I noticed the intercooler setup you mentioned has 2.5" piping, if I go with larger diameter piping wouldn't there be less lag? But I'm sure it would be harder to route if I went bigger

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

oh sorry it's intake air temps. I have the Torque app on my phone. I bought a dongle (I think that's what they're called) that plugs into the OBD2 port and sends engine data via Bluetooth to my phone. So I can monitor IAT, coolant temps, etc. You can download the data and I have some longer runs saved.

I'm no expert on this but from what I've read you'd have to be running a ton of hp to require more than 2.5" piping. You have the right idea on having a bigger TB and a big Intake helps too. All of the CL turbos I've seen have ran 2.5 piping.

2ndgentl

Thanks gnuts! That's pretty cool, I didn't know you could monitor IAT! I might have to look into that. Although my intake manifold is ALWAYS cool, not sure if it's because the 09 TL IM is magnesium and dissipates heat a lot faster. That intake manifold weighs 7 lbs compared to the stock IM 24 lbs.

2ndgentl

Holy sheeet! I can't believe I actually found this! I was looking at j32a2 builds and I came across this! That kid who I bought the supercharger from never had his car built, he just bought it that way already built! The link I am posting is from the original owner of his car. Very interesting thread, look at his dyno video and all the specs on his car. Unbelievable... You can't trust anyone

»Form follows Funtion« MikeyMike's »3.5 »S/c »6 Speed MT »Coupe [Updated 2/20/11] - 6th Gen Accord DIY and Performance Forums

rondog

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of liars in the car enthusiast communities. ALOT! In a place where the main goal is to impress and get approval, you better believe that people are going to say anything to get social approval. There's got to be a cleansing from this to be able to stand before God. He's too Holy to tolerate sin.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

interesting! he had a 3.5L and was hitting 7psi! With the added displacement you have to up the boost so I'm surprised you're not at like 10psi. Edit.....I just re-read his mod list and he said he had the underdrive pulley kit. That's how he got more boost.

My intake temps are hot! this year I want to focus on heat management. I need to wrap my headers amongst other things.

2ndgentl

Isn't an underdrive pulley just a smaller diameter crank pulley? Mine is aluminum but stock diameter

2ndgentl

And it happened.....yep, blew the motor. I know it's just a car, but I can't get this gut wrenching feeling out of me. It was the first time I held it WOT from 3rd to 4th and then it happened...already I have taken the S\C off to do a compression test. Front cylinders from left to right: 70 lbs \ 0 lbs \ 230 lbs. Back cylinders are 230 lbs straight across. I already have the IM\ runners\ valve cover off ready to pull the head so I can see the damage. It's funny because according to my AFR gauge I was right in spec at 11.5 WOT and took two very reputable mechanics for a ride and they told me as well that I'm in the safe zone according to the AFR. When I pulled all the spark plugs out they actually all looked good except those 2 low psi cylinders. Not sure exactly what happened but that's why I had those injectors rebuilt. I guess I'll find out when I pull the head. So, what should I be planning? I know the heads off of the 6-speed cls have better cams than the automatic j32a2, so if they're still good I can just swap them on a automatic j32a2. I don't know, what do you think my best option is. Still feels like a dream to me, wish it was. I was actually racing an 07-08 6-speed TL-S with lots of mods and a big turbo'd Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and after I dusted them both they gave me a thumbs up then I noticed my car was running like absolute crap and ended up stalling when I came to a stop. I just spent all this time on my car and now I have to do it all over again X 10....

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Sorry to hear, Joe.

There is a 6-speed engine for $1200 67Kmiles #009163 at Allen's used auto parts; 813-620-4242; 5509 E. Broadway, Tampa, FL 33619, if you want to go that route. car-part.com

http://car-part.com/

If you use that website for 34689 zip code you can search for j32a2's or j35A3's from an 01-02 MDX. There are tons of them

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

noo! that sucks! It sounded like everything was running great, I'm really surprised!

The heads on the auto vs 6speeds are the same aside from a few 6 speed specific parts. The type S has better cams than the non-type S (J32A1 or J35A3). You might as well throw in a J35A3 and swap over your 6 speed parts. DIY here:https://acurazine.com/forums/second-generation-cl-discussion-2000-2003-50/teh-cls-cls6-915106/
Throw on your CL-S cams for a supercharged 3.5 type S.

nammer11

dang sorry to hear about your misfortune, looked like an awesome car and build, i'm pretty local to you guys, down in bradenton, i saw that blue accord for sale on CL too!

2ndgentl

Thanks guys for trying to somehow cheer me up a little, I'm going to try and pull the head off today to see what happened. I feel like throwing up....feel sick to my stomach. I talked to Sergio from Kings Performance in Orlando today and its going to be around $2200 to $2600 to tune my car after I get it up and running again. I just need to move forward from this and try not to look back. What's funny is that the engine wasn't making any funny noises when I was revving it up in my garage, but every time I let off the throttle smoke came out of my breather tube from the front head

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Just making a few observations:

Maybe cylinder #5 was already on the 'outs' as a result of the 'spray pattern anomaly' the fuel injection guy found when he did your injectors. Did you place the same injectors back into their same corresponding cylinder port when reinstalling?

Also, it will be interesting to see if maybe there are 'bent valves' on #4 and 5 on the head?

Are there any codes stored on the 'money light'?

When time permits, make sure to take a few pictures of the head and post them.

2ndgentl

Sorry, been busy with work, and depressed about my car...lol but, I didn't put the injectors back in any order when I had them rebuilt. No CEL either. I'm almost ready to pull the engine out, just need to disconnect the headers and axles now. I'm assuming the engine and tranny will come out as one with no issues. I haven't taken the head off yet for inspection, thought it would be easier when the whole engine is out. Its gotta come out anyways. I have a question that's been bugging me. I am planning on buying another j32a2 manual tranny engine (same exact engine), there are a few out there in the 60,000 mile range, which is 100,000 miles less than mine. Here's my question, running 5 lbs of boost on that stock engine with a tune obviously, do you think the engine can hold that power? Or do you think I need to build an engine to withstand the power of a S\C

Marcelechka

I am not the least surprised that this happened...

Based on previous posts, you appear to have a heavy right foot.

A heavy right foot in an un-tuned boosted car is a recipe for disaster.

The weather was in the 50 to 60's around that time frame... you were more than likely boosting more pressure because of that. The car probably leaned out and choked since there was no buffer in the fuel map... I'm almost positive that's what happened.

Can't be certain until you pull the block to investigate.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

There are tuned turbocharged J32 civics running 500+ whp on stock engines. These engines can handle it well, but it's all about the tune.

2ndgentl

Yes, temp was in the 50's but boost gauge never has shown more than 5 lbs. Not saying it was accurate, could be pushing more. Since I have no cat and no mid muffler just wide open 2.5" exhaust with mufflers that might not show accurate boost psi. I had a heavy foot before the S/C, but I knew I had to take it easier with the S\C and no tune. It was the first time I had it WOT from 3rd and half way through 4th before it happened. I will post pics of everything when I remove the head. Let this be a lesson for everyone else who thinks they can postpone a tune after you add boost to your engine. Unfortunately, I had to experience it...

2ndgentl

I knew these engines could handle the power, I guess the key to keep them from exploding is a good tuner. Well, the only positive I am telling myself is that now I will have an engine with 100k less miles. I wonder what I will find when I take the head off...

zeta

iTrader: (1)

ETCG removed the engine/trans out of a 6-speed TL from the top. It's possible, depending on the equipment/help you have on hand. If you want to watch, there may be some tips for you. On the other hand, the Helm's manual shows removing the cradle, then removing the hoisted engine from the bottom of the car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Vm4Yd4pvk

aaaaaaaaa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNgHErpLf3M

Marcelechka

Exactly right; mileage means nothing if the car is properly cared for...maintenance & tuning.

I was at 176k-ish at the time the car was sold; you'd never know unless you looked at the odometer.

Looking forward to your rebuild; don't throw in the towel.

2ndgentl

Definitely not throwing in the towel, I'm in love with my CL even after 7+ years of having her. People like you keep me motivated to move forward with this. Since I am replacing the engine and everything will be out of the engine bay, this gives me a chance to clean everything up real nice and have room to install an intercooler as well. Love the looks of your car with that front mount! Possibly replace the radiator with an aluminum one as well. Just need to find out which one fits best. So I'm only thinking since this incident happened my car is only going to be better now in the end. I'll post pics as I'm moving forward with this

Marcelechka

Awesome!

Shout if you need anything; have plenty of pics that I never posted in the thread.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Definitely look into a J35 swap (01-02 MDX). You most def won't regret it.


Shit happens all time, you just need to bounce back stronger... and faster..


Good luck

2ndgentl

Engine came out very easy. I still have to take the front head off to see what was damaged, but I'm still going to get another engine with lower miles on it. Not sure if I should stick with the same engine or get something else...

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Hate to see you have to yank that thing.

Looks like you are making progress. Whether you choose a j32a2 or j35a3 the six speed with that new XLR8 clutch/PP should bolt right up.

2ndgentl

The middle cylinder which had zero compression you can clearly see the cylinder wall towards the top all scored. The one to the left of it which had 70 psi I don't see anything wrong with the cylinder wall which means probably the Rings are worn. But the valves might not be seating as well. My question is, is my motor literally the only one that plugs right into all the sensors with no problems or is there another engine that's identical? I think my engine is the only one that just goes right in with no problem that's why I'm thinking of getting the same engine, I just want to do this easy and quick. Also, is it me or are those cylinder walls EXTREMELY THIN? They don't even look as thick as a piece of paper

zeta

iTrader: (1)

If I am understanding your question correctly, then:

If you want to plug and play the exact same engine, j32a2, then you MUST shop SPECIFICALLY for an engine out of a 6-speed CL-S.

If you want to get a j32a2, BUT, it is out of an 02-03 AUTOMATIC CL-S or TL-S then you can use that engine; however, you will have to transfer all of the relevant pieces from your damaged 6-speed engine. Like the crank sensor?, cam gears/sensors? et al.

I'm am not totally sure of the exact parts; however, gnuts / teh CL should be able to help you determine a list those specific parts.


https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...i-need-846179/


If you want to get an 01-02 MDX j35a3, you will have to swap all relevant pieces from your damaged 6-speed engine to make it compatible.
A good place to start your research would be the thread below:

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...s-cls6-915106/

2ndgentl

Thank you Zeta, but I think I'm just going to keep it simple and get the same exact 6-speed engine. I need to call Kings Performance in Orlando and somehow talk to Ryan, I think he's on acurazine as well, but his car has been running strong for 4 years now at 7 pounds of boost. I talked to Sergio there and he told me that. I just need to find out what his setup is. Like what fuel injectors he has, is it stock internals, s\c pulley, ect. I would be happy with 350 wheel horsepower as a daily driver, if it makes that. Anything over that is just about impossible to keep the tires from spinning anyways.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Just a caveat. I'm sure you realize this already; however, if that is what you plan on doing, shopping for an original '6-speed engine', then you have to be SUPER vigilant that that is what a 'salvage yard' sends you in the end, because there will be a hell of a lot more automatic trans. configured j32a2 engines available for purchase then the original 6-speed motors, which you will probably pay a PREMIUM for due to their popularity with the 'engine swap' crowd (ie honda civic conversions etc).

I'm not saying it will be impossible to find one; however, unless you can 'put eyes' on one locally that you come across, BEWARE of the false indications that may be out there on salvage yard websites that claim to have an original 6-speed engine.

For instance, if you have one shipped in from out of state, it would be a huge let-down and a massive pain-in-the-ass to get a pallet with an engine delivered to your door ONLY to find out that they sent you one from an AUTOMATIC. Even though the out of state 'sales lizard' you dealt with over the phone emphatically swore up and down that it was an original 6-speed engine. Get what I'm saying? All the bull sh*t you would have to go through to return it, call them back, arrange for a shipper to come and pick it up etc. etc. etc.

^
That's it, that is all he has in his set-up. I believe he has a stock cat, stock injectors and stock internals.

^
Those are the numbers he is putting down reliably with a tune.

If you want to talk to him and/or email him, check your 'private messages' I will send you the information you need.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

^ 100% what he said. That would SUCK getting stuck with an auto motor expecting a 6spd motor.

I understand keeping it simple but converting an auto motor (J32a2 or J35a3) is quite simple. With the new motor your gonna end up doing the timing belt anyways (hope so) so you might as well convert it while your in there.

You won't regret a J35a3 swap. Ask me how I know..

2ndgentl

There's one in Tampa (Allans Salvage), 67k 6-speed j32a2 motor for $1200, I talked him down to $800 if I go pick it up. So I can see it before I buy it. 1 month warranty, which means the first thing I'll do is a compression check when I bring it home. That motor might be my best bet, because its local and has low miles.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

There's a J35A3 in Medley, FL (Rastro 74 Used Auto Parts) with 80k for $600. I'm sure they can be talked down as well...

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Nice! Sounds like you are formulating a plan within your busy schedule. I was wondering if you were considering that one and it's close to 34689. Depending on the route you take, it's only about 33-36 miles one way.
Will it fit in the back of your Honda Element?
I bet he would take 7 Franklin's for it, hehe. Especially if it's been sitting a while, That one is definitely worth a shot if you want to keep it simple and 'plug n play'. Definitely agree on the compression test.

Then again, teh CL's suggestion is tempting, if you get a 'hair' and want to experiment. Not that you would go down there; however, Medley, though, is a rough part of town worthy of packing a magnum, hehe.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Answering your question above, I still have my CL dealer brochure when I purchased my car. It has a little write-up in the back relating to the 'performance' of the 3.2-Liter, 24-Valve V-6 engines available in the CL Premium and the Type-S and it actually talks a little about those thin walls.

" Both engines feature aluminum-alloy construction for light weight. The Type-S uses advanced spin-cast cylinder liners to further reduce weight and improve engine cooling."

So, there you go. The brochure page actually depicts three of those 'cylinder liners' with a piston in one to highlight there use. Honda must of thought, at the time, that they were a pretty big deal. That's how I remembered that they were featured in the brochure My best guess is that it was developed a part of Formula 1 research and development, though I have no proof.

2ndgentl

Thanks Teh CL, the J35A3 is very tempting, I'm sure I would be able to find a lot more of those engines for a lot cheaper than the j32a2 6-speed, but the only thing that concerns me is that they are a higher compression engine, 11.1 compared to the j32a2 10.5.1 Naturally Aspirated hands down I would probably get the J35a3, but under boost I think I'll stick with the j32a2, that too is a high compression motor, but not as high.

2ndgentl

I have a friend that owns 2 well known car lots in my area that deals with salvage yards all the time and he found me a j32a2 6-speed motor with 103k for $420 through LKQ, but literally the next day they sold it He really wanted me to wait and get one through LKQ since they are a very reputable company, but unfortunately that specific engine doesn't come around quite often so I had to look elsewhere. At least that other one that's at Allen's in Tampa is close enough to go see it first and make sure its a j32a2 6-speed like they stated. The only thing is that LKQ was giving me a 6 month warranty opposed to Allen's 1 month...oh, by the way, that Honda Element fits my 12hp 32" inch cut Murray Riding Lawn mower in the back, so I can probably fit around 5 J32a2 motors back there

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Dam, that was a good price for the miles. So, if you opt for the one from Allen's yard and it appears satisfactory upon inspection, then for an additional $380 you get 'plug and play' and about 36K fewer miles. Not bad. You also get the ability to play the 'hem & haw' card a bit in person during the 'haggle', hehe. Although, from experience, I've found those old salty 'salvage dogs' to be exceptional bargainers. It's a delicate dance of 'give & take', and 'Cash is King, lol.

The opportunity cost is still slightly in your favor, though, even with the lesser warranty, with the one from Allen's because of its proximity to you and the ability to inspect it for yourself. Like you mentioned, you would just have to coordinate a visit there, and at least, a quick compression test and/or install, at home, to verify condition status and put your mind at ease. Alot of preparation / work for sure.

People snatch those salvage j32a2's and their ancillary gear from the manual CL-S' up quick.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Where did you see that the J35A3 is at that compression ratio? They run on regular gas and I'm pretty sure they're like 10:1.

2ndgentl

I just googled "J35a3 compression ratio" and the first few links say that it's 11.1.1 Damn, if your right and it's really 10.1 that might be something for me to think about. I'm going to do some more research on the j35a3

2ndgentl

Damn, some people say the j35a3 is a 10.1.1. compression ratio and others say it's 11.1.1. I need to find the truth. Not sure which one is accurate