gnuts

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I honestly haven't researched much. I'll dig a little deeper.

2ndgentl

Yeah, I'm finding both answers online, not sure which one is true. I'll keep researching

teh CL

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The J35 with 11:1 compression is the J35A8. The J32A2 is 10.5:1 & the J35A3 is 10:1.

2002 Acura MDX -- Powertrain -- Part 1 - Honda News

zeta

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^
Give that man a Cigar!

With the j32a2 cams and heads, that improves things even more?

gnuts

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Ya all the info I can find is from forums with no links to where they got the figures. I think that the MDX did actually call for premium fuel though.

2ndgentl

I don't know how I missed this but look at the piece missing from the piston. You can see the ring. Lol it looks nice and smooth which means the Piston melted, definitely detonation

zeta

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^
2ndgentl, that's why I was inquiring about the #5 cylinder and the 'narrow pattern' your fuel injector guy wrote on his report above before he serviced them. Maybe #5 cylinder/piston was already on the way out before you installed the SC'er and the extra boost, with the blower, just exacerbated an already unknown existing problem at the time. If those are the original13+year old stock injectors, then who knows how long #5 injector was malfunctioning, before servicing, and contributed to your mishap now.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

LOL, on second thought, I take that back. Because there is no way to positively know the #5 injector listed on his report, with the 'narrow pattern', was the #5 injector that fed the #5 piston cylinder before servicing. Unless you labeled them with a number before removing the injectors for servicing. Oh well, it got the critical thinking skills 'a flowing' anyway, hehe.

2ndgentl

Lol, yeah I didn't label them when I pulled them but I did do a compression check on my motor about 6 months ago and they were all at 230 psi. So, I know the S\C had everything to do with this, but it is kind of weird that only 1 piston got burnt. The other cylinder to the left is the one that had 70 psi, but I don't see any physical damage on the piston, cylinder, or valves.

zeta

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Interesting. Looking at the size of the erosion/melt on that #5 piston, I wonder just how long it would take the presence of 'detonation' under boost to cause that aluminium to dissolve/wear away. Know what I'm saying?

Do you think it could all happen so fast, and all at once, on the night you went WOT in 4th gear? It's apparent something happened that night; however, it just seems to be such a broad erosion that occurred, one would think it may have happened over a period of time, perhaps. Maybe one of the other forum members with more knowledge can chime in on what they think.

So, which way are you leaning for an engine choice? j32a2 or j35a3. Maybe your friend with the car lots can locate a cheaper low mileage j35a3 with his connections at LKQ to capitalize on that 120 day warranty?

gnuts

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Did you get any codes?

gnuts

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I was thinking about your plugs and looked up the info on them. You're using NGK IFR7G 11KS. They have a heat range of 7 and the comptech instructions call for Denso IK22 which have a heat range of 22. For NGK and Denso, the higher the number the colder the plug. Maybe this played a part?

gnuts

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disregard my spark plug post, I looked back and saw you got the IK22.

zeta

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That's a good attempt/point though gnuts! I had to walk back my postulation in post #287.

The large size of that missing part of piston area is impressive though. Some heavy, higher than normal temperature activity going on in that vicinity, for sure.

I would of thought that there would of been codes thrown as well; however, 2ndgentl stated that there were none.

2ndgentl

The CE light never came on, and it might be too late to plug in my obd2 scanner now that every plug\sensor is off. Lol The next engine I get will most likely ask for the core, but if not I'll end up keeping the blown engine and rebuilding it. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get the other engine.

2ndgentl

Now im torn between a j32a2 and a j35a3. On the j35a3 does anyone know what is needed for the swap? Perhaps just an ECU? Harness? Also, I would think it's still tunable on the AEM EMS Stand alone. There are just sooo many more j35a3's out there. Cheaper too..

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Here is what I gathered from teh CL's excellent thread:

1) J32 timing gear, if it is newer than the salvage yard J35's, pulley side crank sensor & bracket.
2) J32 front cam gear, backing plate & sensors/harness.
3) Plumbing isle heater hose with connector and clamps.
4) If you want a J35A3 CL Type-S, swap over the J32A2 cams into the J35A3 heads.

Use the existing J32A2 ECU/harness'

Yes, because you are still using the original 6-speed ECU.

Indeed.

Keep in mind that the effect of the M62 SC'er's produced psi, if I understand correctly, will have a smaller boost result because of the higher displacement of the J35, though you pick-up more low end torque. If you put a smaller SC'er shaft pulley on to get it to spin faster/increase psi, that will only work up to a certain extent. The result will be more heat generation as you approach the ceiling of the M62 operational limits. However, as you know, with professional tuning on a standalone, it will still be possible to extract every last bit of available HP for you to use safely.

^
*If any of the above is in error, please someone clarify, correct, and/or expand upon for accuracy's sake.

zeta

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To expand upon 3) above. This is an improvised heater hose connection/fix because the 01-02 MDX J35 Connecting Pipe; #11 and Water Passage; #8 are different then the same parts on the 02-03 CL-S J32. It appears the J35 MDX Connecting Pipe is missing a tube and the Water Passage is missing an outlet at the rear compared to the same parts on the CL-S J32:

MDX:
https://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-p...-sensor-1-scat
a
CL-S:
https://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-p...mp-sensor-scat
a

2ndgentl

Would the j35 out if an 07 Saturn Vue be the same as the j35 01-02 MDX? The reason I ask is because if I find a j35 out of an 07 Saturn it will have a lot less miles. And I already found some in the 60k range for under $450

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Excellent question. One would think IF it is the same engine you would be 'good to go'; however, I don't think anyone on here has done that, so, I don't know.

'The VUE Red Line was released in 2004. V6 models received Honda's J35A3 engine and Honda transmission. This 3.5 liter engine and 5 speed transmission boosted performance over the prior V-6. It was an important selling point at the time. This V-6 engine was used in the Saturn VUE's 2004 to 2007 model years.' (Wiki)

BTW, if you found a low miles J32A2 from an automatic 02-03 CL-S/TL-S the above swap parts should still apply.

zeta

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Doing a quick google search, I could not find as many different pictures of the J35A3 used in the Vue to get a good comparison to the J35A3 used in the MDX. If I had to guess, the only thing that may be different would, perhaps, be the electrical harness connections. However, it is possible that GM used the Honda connections because the engines were built by Honda.

2ndgentl

My next door neighbor has a 2007 Saturn Vue V6 and the engine is a j35a3, although it looks the same as an MDX engine, I'm not sure if the wiring and the ecu would be the same. It should be, but I'm not for sure I'll do some more research

teh CL

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From what I'm reading the motors are the same. For some reason though, I remember reading that the Vue's J35 didn't receive the factory forged crank that the MDX has but I can't find the info since I saved it a few years ago..

It's your call whether you want to go with the Vue motor.

As for converting the J35A3 to a 6 speed motor, what Zeta posted above is EXACTLY what needs to be done. My thread is linked earlier in this thread & has detailed pics of what needs to be done.


PS: J35A3 > *

zeta

iTrader: (1)

The only thing I found regarding the subject is on the link below. Funny thing is, is that the quoted sentence he used from Wiki is no longer on that Wiki page regarding the Honda J Engine. In addition, he starts his thread with 'Not sure if this can be verified...' so at this point, who knows.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137718

2ndgentl

Picked up a J32a2 6-speed motor today 67k $800. Did a compression test on it when I got home: 240 psi on all cylinders. I bought it from Allen's Auto Parts in Tampa. When I got there they told me it would be about 30 minutes to pull the engine out from the Shelf. After waiting for over an hour, they said they pulled it, drained all the oil, and took the oil pan off to inspect the crank\bearings\rods ect. So they told me to come to the back and look at it before I buy it to see how good everything looks. I walk back there and hanging from the forklift was a V12 Mercedes engine. They pulled and inspected the wrong engine....:\ Completely wrong! Waited over an hour for nothing! They apologized and finally pulled out the right engine 20 minutes later. Now thinking about it I should have taken the V12 Mercedes engine instead for $800. I would have found a way to stuff it in my car.

2ndgentl

Also, does anyone know anything about the AEM FIC? They make a harness that works for my engine to tune it. And actually, now that I just found out, that Accord was tuned with the AEM FIC. And that is why his engine ran and mine blew up. With the AEM FIC you can deliver accurate amounts of fuel to the injectors and also retard your timing.

teh CL

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Atleast you didn't go back there and see a torque converter bolted to the motor

Get to work..

zeta

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Nice pick-up!

Wow, there is plenty of cargo room in the Element.

2ndgentl, just curiuos, how do they verify to you, on-site, that the engine has the miles advertised on car-part.com? Needless to say, you got one of the two best/nearby CL-S 6 engines still available in the southeast.

.

2ndgentl

Hahahaha! Trust me, when they pulled out the j32a2 engine I inspected the whole damn thing with a fine toothed comb. There wasn't a single oil drop\mark on the whole engine. Very clean. I'm just dreading the work now...

2ndgentl

Yeah, I had room back there for that v12 Mercedes engine as well They showed me the accident report on that Acura CL-type S 6-speed and it was documented with 67k on the car.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Nice. I figured they would have something, just did not know what/how they would verify. So, what made you go for the CL-S 6 engine over the J35A3? Was it the combination of one being available locally and 'plug n play' versus the availability of a comparable J35 with the same miles? I observed your old core J32 in the pictures above. Will that turn into a 'rebuild' project when all the dust settles and you are back on the road?

Sorry, don't know anything about the AEM FIC. Is the harness you are talking about like the one below:

BF12085 - Boomslang Plug n Play Harness - AEM F/IC - Dezod Motorsports Inc - Home of the automotive performance enthusiast since 2002.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Definitely looks clean as fuck.

Swapping motors really isn't for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

2ndgentl

I went with the same engine because it was here locally, easy plug n' play install, low miles, and at the end it's still a great engine with great performance. I'm still going to make plenty of power with that engine after it's all done with a tune. They still want the core ( I had to pay an extra $200 until I give them my core ), but I'm thinking maybe sell it piece by piece and I'll get more than $200 at the end for it. It's just that I hate keeping it in the garage because it will just take up space until I sell it all piece by piece. As far as rebuilding it, I don't have the time so I know it would be sitting in the garage collecting dust. But I know how hard these motors are to come by. And a built one would always be good to have on the side for a project

2ndgentl

Yes, that plug n' play harness is for the j32a2 engine. I talked to the owner of RPM Systems in N.Y. and all he does is j swaps. Don is his name, and he seems to be the "rainman" for j series engines. I will talk to him more about that AEM FIC he recommends me getting this week

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I agree. You will see all the psi the blower will produce; besides, not sure if the additional low end torque of the J35 would do you much good if you can't keep the tires from spinning, hehe.

Yeah, you would at least have to pay and have the front head 'gone over' by a machine shop if it became a rebuild project. The Block / #4 & 5 cylinder would need evaluation, new pistons etc. Since your time is limited it makes more 'cents' to just place the old J32 onto the wooden stand that came with the 'new' J32 and run it back over and collect the core charge. Just remember to get the Mugen T-stat and fan switch. Don't forget the timing belt/pulleys/water pump/T-belt tensioner if it's worth the time and they are 'newer' than the same on the salvage engine.

By chance, did the 'accident report' they showed you to verify miles happen to have a date written on it? If so, than that would help determine how long the engine sat either in the car or on the shelf.

teh CL

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Heads up, there's a FIC for sale in the black market

zeta

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2ndgentl, be careful and do your due diligence. IIRC, RPM Systems in N.Y. was one of the tuners that rondog used when he had his blown CL tuned back in 2010-2011 with the AEM FIC. They (RPM Systems) may have worked out the bugs since it has been 6+ years so just be aware.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...st-fic-774963/


https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-d...wheels-806492/

2ndgentl

Did rondogs car ever get tuned properly, or did he end up blowing his motor like I did? I thought he mentioned somewhere that he ended blowing his engine

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Here is his post from your thread; #152; pg. 4:

All I'm saying is, if you talk to this 'Don' at RPM Systems, ask your questions, get his answers, then get a 'second opinion' from Sergio at Kings Performance in regards to considering an AEM-FIC as YOUR tuning solution.
You may be balking at the expense for going to the standalone from Dezod with tuning from Kings, which is understandable. Tuning and its related equipment/dyno time is not cheap. However, if Don is saying this 'piggyback' can do the job, then why not ask Sergio if he can corroborate said information on your quest to save a few bucks? Get what I'm saying?

2ndgentl

You are absolutely right Zeta, but honestly I think I just need to tune it on the AEM EMS to get a proper tune. I talked to Kings Performance again last week and we had a long talk and It's going to end up costing close to $3,000 when it's all said and done. I just can't see spending that kind of money for an additional 70 +\- whp. If I had a Ferrari it would cost less to tune it. And then there's always that chance that it might blow again, there are no guarantees. I might just buy the standalone and see if there are any local people around here, which I know there should be, that can tune it. I don't know, I just want to have a dependable car putting out around 350 whp. Once I install the new engine I think I'm going to keep the supercharger off until I figure out this whole tuning thing. I need to do a lot more research and talk to all the local tuners