ThomWV

I'm going to give the short story first and then the background. I've got both the VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) and ABS (Antilock Brake System) lights on my 2001 CL Type S. I believe they came on two days ago when I was trying to get the car out onto the road but could not because of the glare ice. In fact the car has no anti lock brakes, though the brakes themselves are working just fine. The VSA is not kicking in either, I tried to make it work on some icy road and couldn't. Aside from that the car is running great and there's no transmission problems.

So I drove it to town and got a new set of front tires put on it and then back home, a total of about 9 hilly miles. Most of the ice has melted off and the roads are wet again. The lights are still on and so I checked all of the fuses related to the two systems. All of the fuses are fine. I try the switch but all it does is go in and come out, no clicking or anything, no change in the dash lights either.

Next I head for town and the local Auto Zone. I ask the guy if he will pull the codes for me thinking that once I got them I'd report back here and you guys could help me find the problem. Here's the Mystery ... No Codes! Not a one. So I drove the car back home - another 20 miles. No problems with the car at all, just no ABS and apparently no VSA either. So how can this be? How do I get lights but codes?

Now the longer version of events immediately leading up to seeing the lights. The car had a bad tire up front, one with a lump in it. A cord broke and I had a set of tires ordered. My son was driving the car home from work and we had got the first real icy of the year on the hill leading to the house. The Acura didn't even come close. He made it about half way up the hill and that was it. So he backed down and parked it off the side of the road, as we have often done with many vehicles over the years. Next morning I walk down (about .75 mile) to get the car. I warm it up and then get a flying start at the hill. I held it to the floor and let the computer do the thinking. The VSA held it to about 3500 RPM and it clawed its way up the hill. I parked it in front of the house. So there it sat for two days and during that time the ice got worse. He took the Audi and left the Acura for me. I tried to get the Acura out on the road to go get tires and wasn't able to move it 10 feet. No kidding, the ice was that bad but then so were the tires that were on the car. So in trying to get it out I was on the VSA and that wasn't working. I hit the button and turned the VSA off and just spun the hell out of the front wheels to no avail but then after a while I just gave up and backed the car back into its original space. So that's where it sat until today (2 more days later) when I went out to once again try to get a new set of tires when now all of a sudden I see I've got the dash lights on. I did not notice them when I was spinning the wheels on the ice, but they may have come on then and I may not have noticed.

I just don't understand this one at all, mostly because there are no codes. The only thing I can think of is maybe the switch itself has gone bad and its just stuck in the "Off" position. Of course that wouldn't explain the ABS light being on, but then how can that light be on and the car not throw a code?

Im stumped, got any suggestions?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Disconnect the neg. side of the battery for a few minutes, reconnect, perform idle relearn procedure, see if lights go out and ABS returns.

Also, check the brake fluid level in the reservior.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Troubleshooting the ABS/TCS/VSA systems start in section 19-37 of the manual on the link below, if you do not have access to a manual. It's for a 2G TL, but it should provide some insight.

http://home.comcast.net/~amberlani01/ServiceManual.pdf

Good Luck.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

Codes for ABS, VSA or SRS will not pop up with a normal code reader. They can only retreive CEL codes. You'll need a special Honda code reader to pull and clear those other codes. The dealer has the special code reader.

ThomWV

You've got to be kidding. What in hell were they thinking? The whole world settles on a diagnostic system and they opt out on its use for the vehicle's most important systems? I thought the designers at Audi were idiots, it turns out they are not alone.

Am I correct in assuming that a Honda dealer might also be able to read these codes? I ask because its only 40 miles to the closest Honda dealer and over twice that to the Acura hut.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

Is the speedo working properly ? Maybe when you change wheels you moved or damage the speed sensor which is resposible for abs ? Disconnect the battery and report back to us.

ThomWV

Yep, the speedo is working just fine. My son is using the car during the day for work and its both dark and awfully cold by the time he gets home. It might be the weekend before I disconnect the cable and see if that resets it.

aznboi2424

iTrader: (10)

Yea, I'm guessing a honda dealer would be able to read/clear those codes.

celynka

Generic OBD readers wont read certain diagnostic codes - as aznboi2424 stated - ABS, VSA and SRS codes can be checked or cleared by honda HDS scanner -only. Looks like you are having some ABS issue , most likely faulty ABS wheel speed sensor.

ThomWV

I guess I'm off to the Honda dealership for a code read. I disconnected, waited, and then reconnected the battery. Other than having to reset the radio and seat positions there was no noticeable effect.

I'm hoping its a wheel speed sensor, that's the cheapest part in the lineup. Truth be told though if I go to E-Bay none of the major parts is very expensive.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Also check out car-part.com when you find out what the culprit is. You may find it cheaper.

ThomWV

Well, lets add just a tantalizingly small bit to the mystery. I went out to the car this morning to go run an errand. The road in front of the house was a sheet of ice but my son had parked the car up the drive way a bit on gravel. When I started the car the lights went out. I mean the ABS and the VSA light. Bingo, just gone.

Problem solved .... right?

So I pulled out of his parking spot and rolled out onto the road. I was using the brake and all was fine. As soon as I got on the glare ice (there is no traffic at all where I live) I though I'd see if the ABS was working so I got on the brakes hard enough to lock them up and activate the ABS-system. As soon as I did that the ABS and VSA lights came back on and they have stayed on since. Oh, and the anti-lock braking system did not activate though the brakes themselves worked just fine.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

It will be interesting to see what the codes are. Upon further reading, I found the following info. from the Helms, which may help to explain what occured with the ABS/VSA system (which is quite complex and in-turn explains why one needs special equipment to read the codes ) during the slippery uphill climb attempt.

System Description
Outline:
This system consists of the VSA control unit, the modulator unit, four wheel sensors, the TCS control valve assembly (the TCS control valve actuator (sub throttle motor) and the TCS control valve sensor), the steering angle sensor, the yaw rate sensor, the lateral acceleration sensor, and the PCM. The system integrates the ABS, the VSA systems, and the TCS. The TCS includes brake TCS, engine TCS, and throttle TCS.

ABS Features
When the brake pedal is pressed while driving, the wheels can lock before the vehicle comes to a stop. In such an event, the maneuverability of the vehicle is reduced if the front wheels are locked, and the stability of the vehicle is reduced if the rear wheels are locked, creating an extremely unstable condition. The ABS precisely controls the slip rate of the wheels to ensure maximum grip force from the tires, and it thereby ensures maneuverability and stability of the vehicle.
The ABS calculates the slip rate of the wheels based on the vehicle speed and the wheel speed, then it controls the brake fluid pressure to reach the target slip rate.

TCS Features
The TCS provides low speed traction. When a drive wheel loses traction on a slippery road surface and starts to spin, the VSA control unit sends a brake signal to the modulator unit, which applies brake pressure to slow the spinning wheel. At that time, the VSA control unit sends a traction control signal to reduce engine power.

It maybe a kaput ABS module and/or VSA module.

ThomWV

Just to add to the mystery, or maybe even to subtract from it a bit. My son told me that yesterday the lights were off for about 2 hours, but came back on sometime in the afternoon.

So its an intermittent problem. I'm just guessin' that it has to be a wheel sensor. I'm pretty sure that its not a wiring issue, when they are intermittent you almost always see blinking of the lights or evidence that contact is being made and broken in accord with the vehicle's movement. In this case that is not the case.

Pacho's CL Type S

Sorry this is a long one:
I've had the same issue for about2 years now. I've taken it to the mechanic and they reset abs and clear the codes. All good for a week or a month and then it comes back on. Last time I was in they said was the abs pump & modulator (???) that would need to be replaced. Iasked how much and they were talking about $1200 (cdn) for everything......after picking my jaw off the floor I asked if I could drive without repair. Answer was yes but ABS is probably off.
I live in Alberta where our winters can be wet, icy, packed with snow....etc. To date I've been able to do alright. My driving hasn't been affected, I'm aggressive but also concious of limits of my car. Now mind you I would love to get my CL back to 100% order...the $1200 just seems so off the mark. I'm looking for a wheel sensor, abs pump, etc off an old CL to do the swap to see if it helps.

Hope this helps.

Catfisha

It's usually the ABS pump/modulator/accumulator and/or wheel speed sensor(s) that are the most likely causes... So, hopefully getting replacements will cure your car!!!


ThomWV: If you're still out there, I wonder if your son's been sliding around on ice for fun...that does trick it into thinking something's wrong....