150mph

Hope you guys can offer some ideas.

Without warning, my CL shut off while I was driving 3 days back - no dashboard lights, no power steering - like there was a kill switch triggered. Battery only 3 mos. old. Luckily I was on a side street, not the freeway, & made it to the curb. I cleaned the battery connections & 10 minutes later it started up again—but this may have been a coincidence— & I made it home with no problem. That evening it wouldn't start again. No dashboard lights, no clicking, no noises - like there was no battery, but strangely, the headlights worked fine.

AAA couldn't jump it so I towed it to a local shop. The next day he "checked the charging system and found no problems with the car", and no code errors, but charged the battery and recommended I visit the battery dealer. I took it to the AC Delco dealer and they did a warranty replacement just on my explanation.

The following morning, it died again backing out of the driveway. Shining the battery connections didn't help, but 10 minutes later, it started up again.

I drove it to another shop. He wasn't sure what it could be but recommended replacing the ignition switch, saying symptoms matched problems with that. I asked if fuses or fusebox might be worth investigating but he didn't think 20amp fuses could stop the car dead while it was being driven. $250 later, that evening it seemed ok. Today it drove fine for a 30 mi. trip. On the way back I stopped at a store and when I came out, it's dead again. Luckily it was close to home.

So now it's sitting in the grocery store parking lot on xmas eve. (sob-story right!) I have to pay to tow it somewhere but I'm not sure where because neither shop knows what's the problem, and unless the problem is happening while its at the shop, it's apparently very difficult to diagnose. Looks like my final option is tow it 25 mi. across town and get reamed at the only area Acura dealer.

IDK if the weather has played a part but it's been a deluge of rain recently. I've had previous problems with the security system acting wonky & working intermittently - and also replaced a main relay assembly last year that seemed to fix a no-start problem in hot weather.

Thanks for reading all this. Helpful advice appreciated!

thoiboi

There was a TSB for TL and Accords for the ignition switch, not sure if it covered the CL, do a search and see! My first guess was the battery cables but if they are clean AND tight, then those are ruled out. Have you checked the other end to see if there is corrosion there?

150mph

Been reading a lot about this and the ig. switch would be the first place to look. But it's replaced and still happening. IDK if it's possible to mess up the installation & if that might be a potential... it'd be a challenge to dispute & prove...
Been planning to get the pos. cable replaced for some time b/c the clamp bolt is worn and trying to strip. Maybe the bottom end has a problem but the cable doesn't seem like the fix b/c even with the battery pulled out while running, that wouldn't stop the car dead would it?

150mph

Update. After 2 days of being dead and not starting, it started up normally today. I was revving it at high RPMs when it tried to cut out after 20 seconds - dashboard lights flicked off - but caught itself and kept going. I feel sure if I wasn't revving it, it would've stopped dead like before.

Could some kind of power source connected to the throttle system be the culprit?

Would like to have some ideas before I take it to another shop…

thoiboi

Glad you gave us this tid bit . It's most definitely something to do with your alternator. Either the cables from it or bad, the tensioner or belt is worn, etc. I never trust those Autozone load tests. I think you'll find your issues resolved if you replace the alternator

150mph

Ok I'm getting the alternator replaced. the mechanic agrees that could be it. Another $300+.... Will report results.

150mph

My mechanic put in a new alternator today. An hour after I got it home, it's completely dead as before, in my driveway.

So to recap, its not the battery, ignition switch or alternator.

What's left?

thoiboi

How's the condition of the fuse box?

150mph

All the fuses are intact and the fusebox (under the hood) appears to be in perfect condition.

Just thinking out loud, but in the past couple months, I've had some unusual sensitivity with my key fob remote setting the alarm multiple times just from rubbing around inside my pocket, which never happened before. I'm wondering if the dead electrical system problem might somehow be linked to the alarm? There were a few times several years back when I couldn't start the car after it had been sitting in very hot weather, and a AAA tech appeared to fix it with some kind of disarming technique which escapes me now..

01acls

I believe your problem is a bad connection/corrosion with the battery cables or ignition switch or ECM.

You might of gotten a defective new ignition switch. I would seriously test this part and check the connections.

Humberwho

Probably not related to your current situation but I had the hot weather thing happen last summer. It was the fuel pump relay. 40 or so bucks at autozone. Less online but I didn't want to wait. Hope you can solve this without much more expense, best of luck to you.

01acls

You should replace the following items.

1. #3 & #14 fuses, under hood fuse box.

2. Positive & negative battery cables.

150mph

Thx for replies.
I have no qualms replacing those fuses, but the car's back at the shop who put in the new ignition switch & he's currently baffled.

I'd be interested to know the rationale behind replacing battery cables, because one symptom was the car stopped dead while driving - I wouldn't think that would lead to cable suspicions.

150mph

Called Napa Auto & asked if they had these, but they couldnt help without part number or holding the fuses I need. I went to the shop where my car is & looked at my fusebox. There are no numbers on the box cover or inside.

Would you mind giving some more input on what these 2 fuses are for/part no. ?

01acls

The positive cable supplies power to the under hood fuse box. The fuse box supplies power to the ignition switch. No power at ignition switch then car dies instantly. Just like you turning off the ignition switch.

Same goes for negative cable. No ground to the ignition switch, car dies instantly. Just like turning off the ignition switch.

The fact that there is no lights on in the instrument panel indicates a power failure. Just like turning off the ignition switch. All power is cut to the car the car dies instantly.

The alternator will not be operable because the car is not running. The car can only run when there is power to the ignition system- coils and fuel system. No power, no engine running to turn the alternator pulley. Even if your battery is good.

The ignition switch or ignition switch circuit is the gate keeper to power the car. Hence the cables, fuses, ignition switch.

01acls

150mph

Great. thanks very much for the details and schematic. I'll try these fuses.

I brought up the possibility of a defective new ignition switch with the shop owner this evening & he scoffed at that. He suggested replacing the switch at the outset & it seemed an excellent candidate for the fix. IDK how to pursue that angle further, unless there was some kind of test...

01acls

Tell your mech to disconnect the neg cable. Unplug the ignition switch, turn it to the On (II) position and test for continuity between the 4 wires on the ignition switch.

Converly he can also test some of wires on the car side of the wire loom with the info noted.

WHT/BLK (ACC), WHT (BAT), BLK/YEL (IG1), YEL (IG2)

01acls

Tell your mech to disconnect the neg cable. Unplug the ignition switch, turn it to the On (II) position and test for continuity between the 4 wires on the ignition switch.

Converly he can also test some of wires on the car side of the wire loom with the info noted.

WHT/BLK (ACC), WHT (BAT), BLK/YEL (IG1), YEL (IG2)

Your problem is hard to find because unless the problem is acting up the mech cannot find it. Hence the parts replacements.

150mph

Also the car started up again & was running & he says that makes it very difficult to diagnose

150mph

Thanks for trying to help. I'll get this info to him & report back

01acls

Another possibility is a defective under hood fuse block. Could be corrosion, bad connection, etc.

I find it funny that your mech scoffed at the mentioning of a defective ignition switch. Given the Honda/Acura ignition switch recall back in the day. Not that this is related but manufacturer defects happens all the time. Even the best manufacturer is not perfect. Since your mech can't find the defective part then the ignition switch is still a suspect in my eyes unless he swaps that out again with another known good one.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Check all your engine grounds. Which means unbolt them, clean up the contact points with sandpaper & bolt them back down.


There should be 4 if I remember correctly.


Bet that solves your issue..

01acls

The alarm going off for no reason has nothing to do with you car remote setting the alarm off. It's more likely that it was caused by low voltage to the security system causing the alarm to sound. The alarm thinks someone is tampering with the power connections so it sounds, as in being stolen.

This is another indication that you are having a power failure or a bad connection. With this new development it is most likely a connection/cable problem(s) and not the ignition switch since that's been replaced already.

You need to do what Teh CL said and clean the neg cable contact areas at a minimum. However, I would change them both given the age of the car. The neg cable corrodes in-between the strands and the connector crimped areas. Clean both +/- cable contact areas. Get your battery tested too. Make sure that's within specs.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

Check grounds!!

CL-S24

I recommend checking the fuel pump relay. that thing is a pain in the a--

150mph

UPDATE
It was the interior fusebox.
The local Honda dealer diagnosed it correctly, cost $450 to replace. Not only did it fix the "stops dead" problem, but also the intermittent horn not working and broken cruise control problems.
The ignition switch was a good guess - no regrets. The alternator not so much...

01acls

Glad you found your problem and got your car fix.

FYI and anyone posting. Why would you post only 1 symptom out of 3 known symptoms that you have knowledge of? Without full disclosure it's really hard to diagnose correctly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that with all 3 symptoms that I would of came to the conclusion of a defective interior fuse box but it would of probably made my answers different. Different as in more cautious or omit some of my suggestions because not all of your symptoms would of fit my previous diagnosis. Please, if you're going to post a question, give full details of what's wrong. It was very nice and much appreciated to have your car's year and model included in the first line of your post. Remember, help us to help you by providing full disclosure of your problem with all symptoms in full details for best possible diagnosis.

​​​

thoiboi

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

x 2


​​​​​​​ x 2

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I'll tell you what, 01acls, keep doing what you are doing because I enjoy and learn a hell of a lot out of your analytical posts. I'll be the first to admit that in the grand scheme of all things automotive, I don't know sh*t compared to others and you; however, I perceive your logic as sound, LOL, and at least worthy of a starting point when it comes to figuring out WTF is going on with some of these auto related problems, if that is any consolation.

01acls

Zeta, thank you for the post above. I really appreciate you reading my posts and enjoy sharing my knowledge with you and others.

Thoiboi, LOL you have no room to talk... You're the one who came up with the brilliant idea to replace the starter At the expense of OP to the tune of $300!

The one out of 3 symptoms was just an easy example... car dies when driving... No mention of intermittent horn not working and broken cruise control problems until after the car's fix

thoiboi

Humberwho

Ditto here.

150mph

Apologies & point taken 01acls. Appreciate your taking time to offer your ideas. Next time I'll include more details.

My post was 413 words - what some would call a novel, already risking ignoring. I clearly explained the problem and symptoms. I did update more info about other recent electrical weirdness with the alarm.

The intermittent horn issue and non-working cruise control happened separately many years ago & I didn't associate them with this. A previous thread I started (here I believe) on those problems led to a diagnosis of a bad clockspring (steering column). That wasn't it, and I gave up. Would mentioning these 2 things have brought on that Eureka moment? hmm…no one jumped on my initial fusebox idea at all.

This is a 17 year old car with 230k on it and there are too many fixes over the years to mention.

This "stops dead" problem was a nightmare that left me without a car for the long Xmas and New Years weekends, missing get-togethers, riding my bicycle to work in the years worst rainy cold weather. Worst of all, I had zero confidence in a car I really like.

But the Honda dealer really came through for me and changed my attitude about dealers - this one at least...

I think this forum helped even though no one guessed the fix. It cost me $550 trying suggestions to replace the ignition switch & alternator. But it's nice to hear opinions before talking to the shop. Fortunately I had some cash saved up (from not making a new car payment) so it wasn't a major loss, just disappointing.

But now my CL's back. I still love it and I'm breathing relief. I hope sharing my experience adds to your repertoire of knowledge and someone will fix their problem because of it.

Tosh

group hugs!

Tosh

Thanks for the update, 150mph!
Do you feel there is anything we other owners can do to prevent the interior fusebox issue you had? Was there a specific area in the fusebox that gave trouble? Any other suggestions?

150mph

I don't think there's any kind of fusebox maintenance or anything. My CL bakes in the SoCal sun at home and work much of the year so that may have affected it.

Honda didn't inform me of how they detected the fix, but told me they use a service that catalogs fixes for most every problem any other Honda dealer faced. They guaranteed the correct fix, which means a lot.

The stops-dead problem came on without warning. I guess if you start experiencing intermittent horn, cruise control or other dashboard electrical malfunctions, looking at the interior fusebox would be a good - but expensive - place to look for those fixes.

01acls

One simple thing that an owner can do to minimize this kinda thing from happening is to turn everything off in the car before exiting. That way when the ignition switch is turn on there is less of a power surge going through the fuse box to cause damage. The damage is probably cumulative so over time the fuse box gives out.

Tosh

A power surge might weaken an individual fuse here and there, but not the whole fuse box, which is just a convenient holder for connectors, fuses, and wires.