Dustin_RENAMED

Does anyone know how many CLS 6 speeds were made or where to get this information?

spdy0001

Smitty

If I am not mistaken...2700 manual 2003 CL-S's were produced

GreenMonster

Here's what Mr. Slimey found out:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...etter+produced

2700 is the only number we know of, but I think that was for projected sales. Actual sales??

Only Acura knows for sure how many were produced and those fuckers aren't telling us. Didn't their Corporate parents teach them to share when they were growing up

In contrast, Chevrolet released these numbers for the 2002 Vette:

http://www.idavette.net/facts/2002/2...inal%20Pro.htm

I just don't understand why Acura can't release the numbers on a discontinued model

paulff3

Acura said 10% of what ever they made would be 6 speeds. At the time that worked out to be 2,700. So, could be more or less that 2,700.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I coulda sworn they said 7%.

Slimey

Mr. Greenmonster nicely cited my letter (I always get a when I see you reply to me as Mr. Slimey - it makes the Slimey name seem dignified ).

The 2700 number came from the first press release when the six speed was anticipating release (I think this was winter 2001). MY2003 saw the first CL Type S with the 6MT, the first vehicles were released in 3/02 and (I think) the first build dates were 2/02. Why are the dates important? - because I have not seen an Acura/Honda press release that concerns CL production numbers since before the MY2003 rolled out. There were no interim updates during the rest of 2002 & 2003. Although the 2700 number seemed like a boast of a limited edition ("hey Mr. Consumer - we're making you a rare bird") early on, they never followed up on that claim.

Based on the reply to my letter, I don't think we'll ever really know that real number of 6MT released. That's really too bad.

Dustin_RENAMED

Does anyone know how to tell the production number from the VIN?

Slimey

As you are relatively new here, I'll reply. I suggest you read Chod's FAQ before people start pummeling you. Link is in my signature.

A little VIN tutorial:
VIN is a 17 digit alphanumeric that signifies the serial number of the car as well as some production information.

For the Acura CL

The production date is further documented on the driver's B pillar VIN plate with month and year.

Although a car with the number 1 is sequentially ahead of car number 2, it doesn't mean that number 2 came off the line after number 1. The VIN is assigned at the initiation of production. Some numbers are never produced, or cars with certain numbers are destroyed before they leave the factory. Sometimes a vehicle can return the the production line and then exit later then other cars with VINs in sequence ahead of it (back to the beginning of the line for you!). The CL with 6MT does not occupy a certain block of VIN but are intermixed throughout the production year. The production date is a better indicator of the production date (!) then the last 6 of the VIN.

Chaptorial

I always thought it was 2700.

GreenMonster

If you want to get the the total MY03 production figures you can dig them up at the hondanews.com site.

IntegraVT has a neat speadsheet of the CL totals here if you're interested in the total number of CL's produced.

We'll never know for sure, but the 2700 number sounds about right. I never added up the totals in the spreadsheet, but my WAG[1] is that 14,000 to 16,000 2003 CL's were made (CLP and CLS).

If 16,000 MY03 CL's were made, and 17 % of those were 6spds, the number comes out to 2720. Who knows what the actual percentage is

Regardless of the actual number (I think 2700 is probably close), the 6spd is probably a pretty rare car. The San Marino Red 6spds are the rarest, I hear




[1] Wild Ass Guess

edit: Mr. Slimey just sounds better then just plain Slimey

Slimey

Nice spreadsheet. Someone had too much time on their hands, huh?

Still, the only numbers that are available to the public are total unit sales, not true production numbers and no breakdown on colors, navi options, or transmission options. Bummer.

I wonder if Acura sold all the CL 6MT produced, or if some are still sitting on lots.

As a total aside, what happens to cars that sit on lots well past their model year? For instance, you just don't see new MY1999 cars sitting on lots in 2003. Not all of them could sell, could they? Do they go to auction? Do they get sold back to the manufacturer for scrap? Something I never thought about before.

I'm not sure what Acura gains by keeping their production numbers a corporate secret. It must be something I missed in my business class. It'd be cool if someone that works in a dealer could leak what was available to them for ordering from the manufacturer. hint hint...

darrinb

2700

dfreder371

All I know is I got one. And it's a keeper!

And I usually trade cars every two years, or <30,000 miles!

QuestMGD

Looks like I got one of the last CL-S. VIN 016016 6 speed.

GreenMonster

My dealer said that they were alotted ONE 6spd per month. They could order it anyway they wanted (color/non-navi/navi).

A dealers alotment is dependant on prior sales so some dealers probably got 2 or 3 a month if they were a high volume Acura dealer.

I think that the leftovers go to auction if they don't sell. I almost bought a leftover 02 Accord exv6 last october for about 1750 UNDER invoice, so I think that alot of them get blow out by the dealer before they go to auction. Metro Honda had about 1/2 dozen accords (mostly silver) when the 03 accords started showing up on the lot. If they keep cutting the price someone will eventually buy 'em.

My Acura Dealer (Inskip) hasn't had had a 03 CL on their for about 6 months (lots of used 1st and 2nd gen cl's tho').

QuestMGD: Yes, it looks like you got one of the last ones. Sweeper has Production #15830, DOM 05/03 on his CL (purchased 11/14/2003) but I don't think it was a 6spd.

HohLake

Since I got my six speed in April, I have been working on trying to answer this question. Using owners link on the acura web site, and my knowledge of how the VIN's are coded, here's my current numbers. This is pretty tedious work and might not be complete. I know for a fact that these numbers don't include cars made for Canada, their VIN's don't seem to be in the acura.com database.


Exterior
Interior non nav total

Anthracite
Ebony 443 129 572

Black
Ebony 480 167 647
Parch 258 52 310
All 738 219 957

Blue
Ebony 230 66 296

Red
Ebony 122 24 146
Parch 217 61 278
All 339 85 424

Silver
Ebony 763 223 986

White
Ebony 43 12 55
Parch 135 54 189
All 178 66 244


Total 2691 788 3479

HohLake

The last 6 speed off the line was 16337, there are 81 six speeds after yours.

GreenMonster

Wow, I didn't realize that there are so few 6spds w/ navigation.

Great Job

Did you have to enter each vin (16337) to get the info, or did you discover a shortcut ??

Looks like a White 6spd w/ ebony interior w/ Navi is the rarest w/ only 12 made.

HohLake

No, I haven't checked every VIN that's why I say the numbers might not be complete. I started with my own VIN and a few other VINs that were on my dealers lot back in May. From these I detemined that the 6 speeds were made in runs of 60 cars. I then started a search thru the entire VIN range every 50 production numbers, thinking this would catch all of the runs. I then found all the the cars around these hits, and found that some runs were only 30 cars. I've started going thru by 10's but I'm only 75% done with this. This has also found 1 car that was not produced as part of a run, but is all alone. So I might not ever find every last one, but the numbers I posted are probably 95% or more of the cars produced for the American market. I've had no luck with the Canadian market cars, these have an 8 in the top digit of the production number and I can't find them in the owners link database.

GreenMonster

You are a true master of the CL vins

I thought you must have found some kind of short cut.

SO you found that the cars were made in batches of 30 and 60, which is cool. I guess that they must of shut down the line from making accords (or whatever) at Maryville to run thru a batch (30,60, depending on demand) of CLs.

Did you notice any other trends ??

Did exterior colors run in series (a bunch of blue, then black then red, etc) or where the colors random ??

Thanks for taking the time to research this and sharing it with us. I really get into production facts.

Slimey

Cool.
Very Interesting.
Great first post.
I also didn't realize that the 6MT + Navi was so unusual.

Welcome to A-CL.com.

HohLake

Within a batch, all cars of a particular exterior/interior are grouped together. A batch of 60 cars sometimes was a single color combo, sometimes as many as 8. For the most part a batch would either be all navi, or all non-navi but some batches are mixed with the navi's and non-navi's grouped together.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Great topic guys... I'm going to copy this into the Extremely Useful Topics section so we can archive it.

CBR1100XX

ok guys I am confused. How many 03 silver type S 6 spd with Navi were built?


How many 6spd with navis?

Slimey

From HohLake's above post: 223

From HohLake's above post: 788

Reading comprehension can be challenging. I feel for you...

Red-CL

This might help you a little better......

Exterior
Interior / non / nav / total

Anthracite
Ebony / 443 / 129 / 572

Black
Ebony / 480 / 167 / 647
Parch /258 / 52 / 310
All / 738 / 219 / 957

Blue
Ebony / 230 / 66 / 296

Red
Ebony / 122 / 24 / 146
Parch / 217 / 61 / 278
All / 339 / 85 / 424

Silver
Ebony / 763 / 223 / 986

White
Ebony / 43 / 12 / 55
Parch / 135 / 54 / 189
All / 178 / 66 / 244


Total / 2691 / 788 / 3479


w/o nav = 2691
w/ nav = 788
Total = 3479

CBR1100XX

LOL< a poking every once in a while is ok I guess. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I have 1 of 223, wild stuff

CBR1100XX

I bet the TL's diamond white pearl would have sold better on the CL, than the flat white.

123456SPEED

I thought 2700 was the # of 6 speeds generally agreed upon, but HohLake comes up with 3479?

Slimey

Re-read the first part of the thread.

The original number of 2700 was based on a percentage of the total cars anticipated to be produced for the model year --- and don't forget, this number was based on a single press release from Acura/Honda that was never restated and they won't verify any production data to the public.

Based on his dissection of the VIN from MY2003, I'd say that HohLake's data is probably the most accurate thing that we're going to get.

SG81

iTrader: (1)

does this include models for Canada?

Slimey

Reading comprehension can be tough at times. Let me help you with some quoting and emboldening.

From post #17 above https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=17
From post #20 above https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...4&postcount=20

HohLake

I finished my search thru the acura.com database awhile ago, but never posted the final numbers.

Here you go:


Exterior Interior non nav total

Anthracite Ebony 443 137 580

Black Ebony 480 185 665
Parch 258 52 310
All 738 237 975

Blue Ebony 230 68 298

Red Ebony 122 25 147
Parch 217 61 278
All 339 86 425

Silver Ebony 763 223 986

White Ebony 43 15 58
Parch 135 54 189
All 178 69 247


Total 2691 820 3511

HohLake

Here's a break down by production number of color/nav:

Start End # non/nav Exterior Interior
69 70 2 nav Blue Ebony
71 85 15 non Black Parch
86 100 15 non Blue Ebony
101 115 15 non Anthracite Ebony
116 130 15 non Silver Ebony
191 199 9 nav Silver Ebony
202 205 4 nav Silver Ebony
206 220 15 nav Anthracite Ebony
221 235 15 nav White Parch
236 250 15 nav Black Ebony
311 313 3 nav White Ebony
314 319 6 non White Ebony
320 345 26 non Silver Ebony
346 366 21 nav Silver Ebony
367 370 4 non Anthracite Ebony
671 692 22 non Anthracite Ebony
693 715 23 non Blue Ebony
716 730 15 non Red Parch
791 796 6 nav White Parch
797 800 4 nav Black Parch
801 813 13 nav Black Ebony
814 821 8 nav Blue Ebony
822 829 8 nav Anthracite Ebony
830 838 9 nav Red Ebony
839 850 12 nav Red Parch
911 970 60 non Black Ebony
1091 1120 30 non Anthracite Ebony
1121 1150 30 non Black Ebony
1271 1330 60 non Silver Ebony
1451 1510 60 non Silver Ebony
1571 1585 15 non Red Ebony
1586 1597 12 non Black Parch
1598 1613 16 non Black Ebony
1614 1630 17 non White Parch
1871 1900 30 non Black Parch
1901 1930 30 non Red Parch
2591 2620 30 non Silver Ebony
2681 2692 12 nav Black Ebony
2693 2696 4 nav Black Parch
2697 2700 4 nav Red Parch
2701 2708 8 nav Blue Ebony
2709 2713 5 nav White Parch
2714 2730 17 nav Silver Ebony
2731 2740 10 nav Anthracite Ebony
2861 2862 2 non Anthracite Ebony
2863 2881 19 non Blue Ebony
2882 2883 2 non White Ebony
2884 2902 19 non Silver Ebony
2903 2908 6 non Red Ebony
2909 2920 12 non Black Ebony
3401 3421 21 non Red Parch
3422 3422 1 non Red Ebony
3423 3445 23 non Black Parch
3446 3460 15 non White Parch
3911 3940 30 non Anthracite Ebony
3941 3970 30 non Black Ebony
4271 4330 60 non Silver Ebony
4391 4420 30 non Black Ebony
4481 4506 26 nav Silver Ebony
4507 4515 9 nav Anthracite Ebony
4516 4518 3 nav White Parch
4519 4530 12 nav Black Ebony
4531 4532 2 nav Black Parch
4533 4536 4 nav Blue Ebony
4537 4540 4 nav Red Parch
4601 4621 21 non Red Parch
4622 4649 28 non Black Parch
4650 4660 11 non White Parch
4781 4806 26 non Anthracite Ebony
4807 4807 1 non Black Ebony
4808 4815 8 non Red Ebony
4816 4835 20 non Blue Ebony
4836 4840 5 non Silver Ebony
5081 5095 15 non Red Parch
5096 5104 9 non Red Ebony
5105 5114 10 non Black Ebony
5115 5127 13 non Black Parch
5128 5128 1 non White Ebony
5129 5140 12 non White Parch
5141 5170 30 non Black Ebony
5171 5200 30 non Silver Ebony
5381 5382 2 non Black Ebony
5383 5410 28 non Silver Ebony
5411 5440 30 non Anthracite Ebony
5561 5578 18 nav Black Ebony
5579 5579 1 nav Red Ebony
5580 5582 3 nav White Ebony
5583 5590 8 nav Anthracite Ebony
5831 5844 14 nav Silver Ebony
5845 5848 4 non White Parch
5849 5849 1 nav White Parch
5850 5854 5 nav Black Parch
5855 5863 9 nav Blue Ebony
5864 5883 20 non Blue Ebony
5884 5890 7 nav Red Parch
6252 6281 30 non Anthracite Ebony
6282 6286 5 nav Black Parch
6287 6289 3 nav White Parch
6290 6290 1 nav White Ebony
6291 6307 17 nav Anthracite Ebony
6308 6328 21 nav Silver Ebony
6329 6333 5 nav Blue Ebony
6334 6335 2 nav Red Ebony
6336 6341 6 nav Red Parch
6676 6685 10 non White Parch
6686 6699 14 non Black Parch
6700 6714 15 nav Black Ebony
6715 6716 2 non Anthracite Ebony
6717 6735 19 non Red Parch
6856 6882 27 non Silver Ebony
6883 6886 4 non Anthracite Ebony
6887 6890 4 non Red Ebony
6891 6907 17 non Blue Ebony
6908 6915 8 non White Ebony
6972 7001 30 non Black Ebony
7002 7031 30 non Silver Ebony
7452 7493 42 non Anthracite Ebony
7494 7495 2 non White Ebony
7496 7511 16 non Blue Ebony
7752 7773 22 nav Silver Ebony
7774 7781 8 nav Anthracite Ebony
7812 7871 60 non Silver Ebony
7992 7994 3 non Silver Ebony
7995 7996 2 non White Ebony
7997 8007 11 non White Parch
8008 8030 23 non Black Ebony
8031 8044 14 non Red Parch
8045 8051 7 non Red Ebony
8172 8179 8 nav White Parch
8180 8180 1 nav White Ebony
8181 8191 11 nav Black Ebony
8192 8194 3 nav Black Parch
8195 8214 20 non Black Parch
8215 8223 9 nav Blue Ebony
8224 8226 3 nav Red Ebony
8227 8231 5 nav Red Parch
8817 8831 15 non White Parch
8832 8839 8 non Anthracite Ebony
8840 8850 11 non Black Parch
8851 8862 12 non Red Ebony
8863 8874 12 non Red Parch
8875 8876 2 nav Red Parch
9102 9107 6 nav Blue Ebony
9108 9108 1 nav White Ebony
9109 9113 5 nav White Parch
9114 9124 11 nav Anthracite Ebony
9125 9142 18 nav Silver Ebony
9143 9143 1 nav Red Ebony
9144 9148 5 nav Black Parch
9149 9161 13 nav Black Ebony
9222 9251 30 non Anthracite Ebony
9252 9281 30 non Black Ebony
9402 9406 5 non White Ebony
9407 9426 20 non Blue Ebony
9427 9431 5 non Black Ebony
9492 9551 60 non Silver Ebony
9944 9973 30 non Black Ebony
10034 10036 3 non White Ebony
10037 10062 26 non Anthracite Ebony
10063 10082 20 non Blue Ebony
10083 10093 11 non Red Ebony
10154 10168 15 non White Parch
10169 10185 17 non Black Parch
10186 10205 20 non Red Parch
10206 10213 8 non Red Ebony
10514 10573 60 non Silver Ebony
10574 10590 17 nav Black Ebony
10591 10596 6 nav Black Parch
10597 10598 2 nav White Parch
10599 10600 2 nav White Ebony
10601 10603 3 nav Blue Ebony
10604 10610 7 nav Anthracite Ebony
10611 10631 21 nav Silver Ebony
10632 10633 2 nav Red Parch
10934 10993 60 non Silver Ebony
11054 11069 16 non Anthracite Ebony
11070 11070 1 non White Ebony
11071 11073 3 non White Parch
11074 11082 9 non Blue Ebony
11083 11095 13 non Black Parch
11096 11108 13 non Red Parch
11109 11113 5 non Red Ebony
11235 11238 4 nav Red Parch
11239 11242 4 nav Black Parch
11243 11270 28 non Black Ebony
11271 11279 9 nav Black Ebony
11280 11284 5 nav Blue Ebony
11285 11285 1 nav White Ebony
11286 11288 3 nav Anthracite Ebony
11289 11294 6 nav Silver Ebony
11655 11655 1 nav White Parch
11656 11659 4 non White Parch
11660 11660 1 non White Ebony
11661 11664 4 non Black Ebony
11665 11674 10 non Black Parch
11675 11687 13 non Blue Ebony
11688 11692 5 non Silver Ebony
11693 11710 18 non Anthracite Ebony
11711 11714 4 nav Anthracite Ebony
11715 11716 2 nav Black Parch
11717 11721 5 nav Black Ebony
11722 11723 2 nav Blue Ebony
11724 11727 4 non Red Ebony
11728 11731 4 nav Red Ebony
11732 11737 6 nav Red Parch
11738 11745 8 non Red Parch
11746 11751 6 nav Silver Ebony
11752 11774 23 non Silver Ebony
12315 12315 1 non Silver Ebony
12317 12318 2 non White Parch
12319 12322 4 non Blue Ebony
12323 12327 5 non Anthracite Ebony
12328 12333 6 non Red Ebony
12334 12341 8 non Red Parch
12342 12369 28 non Black Ebony
12370 12374 5 non Black Parch
12495 12498 4 nav Black Parch
12499 12509 11 nav Black Ebony
12510 12510 1 nav Red Ebony
12511 12514 4 nav Red Parch
12515 12515 1 nav Blue Ebony
12516 12519 4 nav Anthracite Ebony
12520 12544 25 non Anthracite Ebony
12545 12551 7 nav Silver Ebony
12552 12554 3 nav White Parch
14115 14116 2 non White Ebony
14117 14120 4 non White Parch
14121 14130 10 non Silver Ebony
14131 14138 8 non Blue Ebony
14139 14146 8 non Black Ebony
14147 14154 8 non Red Ebony
14155 14161 7 non Red Parch
14162 14175 14 non Black Parch
14416 14445 30 non Silver Ebony
14446 14475 30 non Anthracite Ebony
14656 14656 1 nav White Parch
14657 14670 14 nav Silver Ebony
14671 14674 4 nav Blue Ebony
14675 14686 12 nav Black Ebony
14687 14701 15 non Black Ebony
14702 14711 10 nav Anthracite Ebony
14712 14713 2 nav Red Ebony
14714 14715 2 nav Red Parch
14896 14896 1 non Anthracite Ebony
15018 15019 2 nav Black Parch
15020 15022 3 nav Red Parch
15023 15023 1 nav Red Ebony
15024 15031 8 nav Anthracite Ebony
15032 15038 7 nav Black Ebony
15039 15039 1 nav White Ebony
15040 15043 4 nav Silver Ebony
15044 15064 21 non Silver Ebony
15065 15085 21 non Black Ebony
15086 15099 14 non Anthracite Ebony
15100 15109 10 non Blue Ebony
15110 15112 3 non Red Ebony
15113 15117 5 non Red Parch
15118 15128 11 non Black Parch
15129 15132 4 non White Parch
15133 15137 5 non White Ebony
15618 15621 4 nav Silver Ebony
15622 15646 25 non Silver Ebony
15647 15655 9 non Anthracite Ebony
15656 15665 10 non Blue Ebony
15666 15673 8 non Red Ebony
15674 15677 4 non Red Parch
15918 15922 5 nav Black Ebony
15923 15928 6 nav Black Parch
15929 15943 15 non Black Parch
15944 15968 25 non Black Ebony
15969 15970 2 non White Ebony
15971 15975 5 non White Parch
15976 15976 1 nav White Parch
15977 15977 1 nav Silver Ebony
15978 15992 15 non Silver Ebony
15993 15995 3 non White Ebony
15996 15998 3 non White Parch
15999 16022 24 non Anthracite Ebony
16023 16029 7 non Red Ebony
16030 16035 6 non Blue Ebony
16036 16037 2 nav Blue Ebony
16278 16285 8 nav Silver Ebony
16286 16287 2 nav White Ebony
16288 16297 10 nav Black Ebony
16298 16309 12 non Black Ebony
16310 16316 7 non Black Parch
16317 16321 5 non Red Parch
16322 16322 1 nav Red Ebony
16323 16337 15 nav Anthracite Ebony

If any one knows of a 6 speed production number not listed here, let me know.

One interesting thing I've observed from the data is that there is a noticable pause in production between 12554 and 14115. The count up to 12554 is 2669, pretty close to 2700. Did they shut down production because the had reached the limit? Then restart production some time later, due to the fact that 6 speeds were actually selling well? So does that mean I'm missing 31 cars prior to 12554? I've checked multiple times and can't find a missing run of 30 cars.

Slimey

You, sir, are obsessed!

(and I thank you for your obsession -- interesting stuff )

Slimey

I would think you have a reasonable conslusion -- that production was restarted with Acura saw the light of 6MT as a viable and marketable option...especially considereing that their subsequent models (TSX & next gen TL) also became availabe with 6MT. Good work!

GreenMonster

thanks !!

We went from acura not wanting to provide "proprietary info" to having a detailed list of the production numbers

The "missing" 30 cars is interesting, but I don't think it really affects the overall value of this information.

pwilson

For the record I have Canadian CL-S 6-speed #800501. It's black/black, no NAV as this was not an option here in Canada. For 2003 the only CL-S colours available in Canada were silver, anthracite, black and aegean blue...all with ebony interior. When I bought mine (new)in April of 2004, there were a few CL-S auto transmissions around but mine was the only 6-speed I could find and it was black which is what I wanted.

GreenMonster

Pwilson, Hohlake only did the break down of the USA 6spds. I'm sure that he would be interested in hearing from you. He's trying to get the format of the Canadian VIN's, so he can create a list similiar to the USA 6spds.

Private mail (PM) him your VIN if you'd like to help him compile a list of canadian CLS 6spds...

https://acurazine.com/forums/private...m&userid=24169