RonJon CL-S 6 speed, 286hp to the wheels!
01-31-2011, 09:55 PM
#1
RonJon CL-S 6 speed, 286hp to the wheels!
Had this video in my computer, decided to upload it:
Brief history:
Had the AEM FIC-6 to tne the 6 lbs of boost, ended up tuning it to the dyno graph shown below at 300hp top the wheels, car was fucking faster than ever. only thing was that after 3 days or 1 drive cycle, the O2 numbers were all whacky and the cars own ECU retuned everything and messed it all up. So we couldn't figure out how to tune the J32 ECU and ended up just adjusting the FPR and monitoring the wideband numbers which to this day have been perfect and steady. Also had the blwoer completely rebuilt by the original manufacturer in Magnuson, so it was basically new. Also had the slipping belt replaced and tightened, no more slipping and a new clutch (OEM). Everything was updated, car runs like a gem now at 286 hp to the wheels.
I walked on an S5 who actually had the jump on me off the line, and clocked in at about 5.2 seconds 0-60 with one of those dyno aps for the iphone. I know with more traction and with a better hook up from some poly engine mounts, I could dip into 4.9 maaaaaaybe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bejx3W-T0MI
Brief history:
Had the AEM FIC-6 to tne the 6 lbs of boost, ended up tuning it to the dyno graph shown below at 300hp top the wheels, car was fucking faster than ever. only thing was that after 3 days or 1 drive cycle, the O2 numbers were all whacky and the cars own ECU retuned everything and messed it all up. So we couldn't figure out how to tune the J32 ECU and ended up just adjusting the FPR and monitoring the wideband numbers which to this day have been perfect and steady. Also had the blwoer completely rebuilt by the original manufacturer in Magnuson, so it was basically new. Also had the slipping belt replaced and tightened, no more slipping and a new clutch (OEM). Everything was updated, car runs like a gem now at 286 hp to the wheels.
I walked on an S5 who actually had the jump on me off the line, and clocked in at about 5.2 seconds 0-60 with one of those dyno aps for the iphone. I know with more traction and with a better hook up from some poly engine mounts, I could dip into 4.9 maaaaaaybe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bejx3W-T0MI
Last edited by rondog; 01-31-2011 at 09:58 PM.
02-01-2011, 08:10 AM
#4
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
nice! Can't wait to get mine tuned/dynoed. I think i'm going to pick up a emanage blue. Is the 6psi the original pulley that comes with the s/c? By the way, i'll get that $ to you this week.
02-01-2011, 08:39 AM
#5
I don't know what came with your blower, but the original one from comptech comes with 3 lbs of boost. Then there;s the 6 lb high boost pully for the alternator. I had one of the same size made for the blower end of the shaft, so I would be able to go back to 3 lbs for whatever reason.
02-01-2011, 09:44 AM
#6
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Those numbers are on 6psi?
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02-01-2011, 12:47 PM
#9
09 Accord Coupe 6 Speed
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Those are impressive numbers. On a side note, strap or no strap, I would NOT be standing around IN FRONT of any car with my hands in my pocket looking clueless while it's being revved to 100 + mph!
02-04-2011, 08:28 AM
#17
No exhasut, just a high flow cat (which sounds a little raspy, wish I could go back) and OEM exhasut. Not feeling like trying to squeeze out any more hp at this point, car feels plenty strong. And the IMRC shouldn't be connected with 6 lbs of boost, thats what all the members superchargers and my mechanic say. In order to achieve a decent mixture of A/F on the wideband gauge.
02-04-2011, 08:50 AM
#18
Lives in Boost
No exhasut, just a high flow cat (which sounds a little raspy, wish I could go back) and OEM exhasut. Not feeling like trying to squeeze out any more hp at this point, car feels plenty strong. And the IMRC shouldn't be connected with 6 lbs of boost, thats what all the members superchargers and my mechanic say. In order to achieve a decent mixture of A/F on the wideband gauge.
I want to do so much more to my car but aren't sure if I want to dump anymore money in it.
02-04-2011, 03:13 PM
#20
Trust me, you'll get the itch for more power soon lol. Either way I'm glad you were able to get the FIC working properly. Did you have any issues with the crank sensor or getting it to rev past 3000rpms initially?
I want to do so much more to my car but aren't sure if I want to dump anymore money in it.
I want to do so much more to my car but aren't sure if I want to dump anymore money in it.
Actually I didn't get the FIC working, so I just took it out and it's for sale $320 takes it.
No issues since. I won't get the itch, any more power is useless, the car can't hook up and things will start to break if I add any more power. I had the itch and got to where I am now.
02-04-2011, 03:15 PM
#21
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
02-04-2011, 07:37 PM
#22
Lives in Boost
02-04-2011, 07:39 PM
#23
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Can we be sure that its 20hp on boost? I havent seen anyone get the IMRC working with a good tune and a supercharger.
02-04-2011, 08:37 PM
#24
Lives in Boost
I would say so https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...highlight=IMRC . Not to mention those who aren't boosted even feel a power loss when their IMRC isn't working properly (broken teeth, bad fuse etc)
02-04-2011, 10:23 PM
#25
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Looking at whats being said in that thread, it seems that if you run the standard boost pulley, you can leave the IMRC connected:
But if you go with the HBP, you should disconnect it.
And I think this shows alot:
Down low, without the IMRC it makes more power, and up top its only slightly lower.
What isnt said, unless I missed it, is whether or not he kept the butterflies closed or if he left them open.
Another thing that leaves me with another question is this:
Does he mean the IMRC is connected and fully operational or is it disconnected and the butterflies are stuck closed/open?
Thinjim went on to say in another post that the motor does detonate alot.
That thread just leaves me with more questions regarding the tuning and setup that they were running. But ultimately, if you trust your tuner enough to properly tune the car with the IMRC and HBP, then go for it. Just post up results so we can see a before and after and see if its worth the trouble.
Supercharged....
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...uly6dyno-1.jpg
The difference between the 2 traces = reconnecting the IMRC and a half turn on the FPR. The IMRC made the biggest difference. I had disconnected it on other's advice, but apparently that was a bad idea!
Note the AFR trace, with the characteristic dip at vtec. The rest of the trace is so close to 12, that I wasn't going to mess with this.
I could probably eek out a few more ponies, but I'm very pleased with these numbers, given that it is low boost and no fiddlin' around.
This is SC/I/H/manifold spacer...
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...uly6dyno-1.jpg
The difference between the 2 traces = reconnecting the IMRC and a half turn on the FPR. The IMRC made the biggest difference. I had disconnected it on other's advice, but apparently that was a bad idea!
Note the AFR trace, with the characteristic dip at vtec. The rest of the trace is so close to 12, that I wasn't going to mess with this.
I could probably eek out a few more ponies, but I'm very pleased with these numbers, given that it is low boost and no fiddlin' around.
This is SC/I/H/manifold spacer...
The opening of the IMRC adds a significant amount of air into the intake. With the supercharger many of us were experiencing "ping" right around 5,000rpm where the motor starts to run lean. When it runs lean and begins to knock the ECU starts to kill timing. So any potential gains due to the increased air with the IMRC connected is negated by the ECU interfering by playing with timing.
Disconnecting the IMRC limits the amount of air entering the intake but the AFR stays flat (for the most part) and there's no interference by the ECU playing with timing due to knock. Eliminating the knock also saves the motor.
Disconnecting the IMRC limits the amount of air entering the intake but the AFR stays flat (for the most part) and there's no interference by the ECU playing with timing due to knock. Eliminating the knock also saves the motor.
There really are no benefits of leaving the IMRC connected once you are boosted.
The "resonance" effect created by the dual stage intake manifold is relying on vacuum. Once we introduce positive atmospheric pressure into the manifold the resonance effect is greatly reduced or eliminated all together.
It's based on the Helmholtz resonance theory. Although back in 1860 I don't think he knew it would be applied to a Honda J32A2.
The "resonance" effect created by the dual stage intake manifold is relying on vacuum. Once we introduce positive atmospheric pressure into the manifold the resonance effect is greatly reduced or eliminated all together.
It's based on the Helmholtz resonance theory. Although back in 1860 I don't think he knew it would be applied to a Honda J32A2.
Down low, without the IMRC it makes more power, and up top its only slightly lower.
What isnt said, unless I missed it, is whether or not he kept the butterflies closed or if he left them open.
Another thing that leaves me with another question is this:
You guys are confusing the topic and IMO believe inadvertantly giving wrong information. Steve, you mention 5000 rpm, thats vtec changeover, the IMRC happens at 3800rpm. I know you know this, but I got a little confused by some of the posts. ALthough there is a quick lean spot at 3800rpm while under boost, it's not prevalent all the time. I experimented with various boost levels and at 4.5 lbs does not create enough of a significant lean to cause det, at the higher levels, yes, one quick bang of det but not severe, but added up over time could cause a failure. I'd think the guys with the stock pulley on the SC will not have a problem, don't forget, I also had the SC and ran it with the stock pulley. the guys with the high boost pulley's only alternative without emanage is to up the fuel pressure, but then your fat all across the rpm range.
Yes, the computer does compensate with vtec changover and probabley IMRC engagement as well. However, the adjustment to the IMRC seems to be enough for up to 4.5 -5psi. The puter was mapped for atmosphere engagement of the IMRCand theres always a little fudgefactor.
As for the IMRC not making a difference, I beg to differ. At 6psi I saw roughly 20hp difference between being open and closed. It causes a ramming effect and if it's not open, you lose that ram effect.
If you want to monitor knock, go here http://www.linkecu.com/products/Anci...ices/KnockLink
simple to install and is better than listening for it, the motor wot gets loud
Yes, the computer does compensate with vtec changover and probabley IMRC engagement as well. However, the adjustment to the IMRC seems to be enough for up to 4.5 -5psi. The puter was mapped for atmosphere engagement of the IMRCand theres always a little fudgefactor.
As for the IMRC not making a difference, I beg to differ. At 6psi I saw roughly 20hp difference between being open and closed. It causes a ramming effect and if it's not open, you lose that ram effect.
If you want to monitor knock, go here http://www.linkecu.com/products/Anci...ices/KnockLink
simple to install and is better than listening for it, the motor wot gets loud
Thinjim went on to say in another post that the motor does detonate alot.
That thread just leaves me with more questions regarding the tuning and setup that they were running. But ultimately, if you trust your tuner enough to properly tune the car with the IMRC and HBP, then go for it. Just post up results so we can see a before and after and see if its worth the trouble.
02-04-2011, 11:51 PM
#26
Lives in Boost
haha, not sure the point of all the other quotes. Bottom line is there's 20hp on the table proven by before and after dyno's. But it's all up to the driver on whether the additional tuning is worth it to them. I know it will be to me when/if I decide on the FIC vs the EMS
02-06-2011, 12:04 PM
#28
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
haha, not sure the point of all the other quotes. Bottom line is there's 20hp on the table proven by before and after dyno's. But it's all up to the driver on whether the additional tuning is worth it to them. I know it will be to me when/if I decide on the FIC vs the EMS
Mr Steve said on the HBP, keep it disconnected. Thinjim said you can connect it, just up the fuel.
Look at the dyno graph. Run 4 (blue) was with the IMRC disconnected. Run 3 was with it connected. I dont see a 20hp difference. At most, I see a 10hp/5tq difference around 5000rpm. Hell, look at the dip right when the IMRC opens.
As I said in the other post:
But ultimately, if you trust your tuner enough to properly tune the car with the IMRC and HBP, then go for it. Just post up results so we can see a before and after and see if its worth the trouble.
02-06-2011, 01:17 PM
#29
I'll tell you, when I drove home from queens after that 300 hp dyno pull and the tune, there was not a car that could hang with me short of a ferarri, I mean, I wasn't used to the speed and the brakes were working overtime to slow me down. had to literally predict when to use the brakes to slow down without warping the rotors. There's a pretty noticeable difference between 286 and 300 to the wheels, thats like what, $360 to the crank? But I don't believe it's worth the potential problems and peace of mind.
02-06-2011, 02:25 PM
#30
I'll tell you, when I drove home from queens after that 300 hp dyno pull and the tune, there was not a car that could hang with me short of a ferarri, I mean, I wasn't used to the speed and the brakes were working overtime to slow me down. had to literally predict when to use the brakes to slow down without warping the rotors. There's a pretty noticeable difference between 286 and 300 to the wheels, thats like what, $360 to the crank? But I don't believe it's worth the potential problems and peace of mind.
02-06-2011, 02:49 PM
#31
I have been wondering about the IMRC also. I bought my ported IM and runners from the p2r race accord and the IMRC connection hole is welded closed and the air assist valves on the runners are welded.
I was told that "I don't want the butterfly. I will lose hp with it. It only works on stock car. Once you start modifying the engine and changing the air flow patterns you no longer need to worry about the butterflies. All it does is provide less airflow for partial throttle at low rpm's. It isn't meant to be a wide open throttle restrictor".
I asked about losing torque at low rpm and was told "only torque you will lose is below 2500 rpm at very low throttle. Not enough to notice".
Not sure yet what to do about it.
I was also wondering if tuning is pretty much required if I leave it with no IMRC. Can't afford ems and swapping auto engine harness right now.
I was told that "I don't want the butterfly. I will lose hp with it. It only works on stock car. Once you start modifying the engine and changing the air flow patterns you no longer need to worry about the butterflies. All it does is provide less airflow for partial throttle at low rpm's. It isn't meant to be a wide open throttle restrictor".
I asked about losing torque at low rpm and was told "only torque you will lose is below 2500 rpm at very low throttle. Not enough to notice".
Not sure yet what to do about it.
I was also wondering if tuning is pretty much required if I leave it with no IMRC. Can't afford ems and swapping auto engine harness right now.
02-06-2011, 07:15 PM
#32
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I dont think removing the IMRC would throw a code, but you could always toss a resistor on or just leave the motor in place and remove the cable.
02-06-2011, 10:19 PM
#34
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
The reason it felt much slower is because the butterflies were closed when you got to the higher RPMs. Im curious if youd actually feel a difference if you left them open.
02-06-2011, 10:22 PM
#35
Lives in Boost
The reason for that was because there were alot of questions regarding the claims one way or the other.
Mr Steve said on the HBP, keep it disconnected. Thinjim said you can connect it, just up the fuel.
Look at the dyno graph. Run 4 (blue) was with the IMRC disconnected. Run 3 was with it connected. I dont see a 20hp difference. At most, I see a 10hp/5tq difference around 5000rpm. Hell, look at the dip right when the IMRC opens.
As I said in the other post:
Mr Steve said on the HBP, keep it disconnected. Thinjim said you can connect it, just up the fuel.
Look at the dyno graph. Run 4 (blue) was with the IMRC disconnected. Run 3 was with it connected. I dont see a 20hp difference. At most, I see a 10hp/5tq difference around 5000rpm. Hell, look at the dip right when the IMRC opens.
As I said in the other post:
I think the only thing debatable is the extra tuning involved. For me, 20hp would be worth it, but as ron said the car is enough for him as is. When I get tuned I think i'll try to squeeze the extra 20 out
02-06-2011, 10:23 PM
#36
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Meh, allout posted a dyno of 319whp with the IMRC connected and that was on 91 octane, so I dont see what the debate is. I think it's pretty obvious there's a 20hp difference seeing as though I'm around 300 and ronjon just hit 300 and neither of us have the IMRC connected.
I think the only thing debatable is the extra tuning involved. For me, 20hp would be worth it, but as ron said the car is enough for him as is. When I get tuned I think i'll try to squeeze the extra 20 out
I think the only thing debatable is the extra tuning involved. For me, 20hp would be worth it, but as ron said the car is enough for him as is. When I get tuned I think i'll try to squeeze the extra 20 out
02-06-2011, 10:24 PM
#37
Lives in Boost
I'm actually considering doing this to ease the headache of tuning. I'm not sure if I'd get the benefits of how the IMRC actually achieves its gains though and I think there'd be some low end power loss but since the power has already been bumped due to the FI I dont think it'll be a huge negative.
02-06-2011, 10:26 PM
#38
Lives in Boost
02-06-2011, 10:29 PM
#39
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I'm actually considering doing this to ease the headache of tuning. I'm not sure if I'd get the benefits of how the IMRC actually achieves its gains though and I think there'd be some low end power loss but since the power has already been bumped due to the FI I dont think it'll be a huge negative.
Thanks for the link too.
02-06-2011, 10:31 PM
#40
Lives in Boost
I'll tell you, when I drove home from queens after that 300 hp dyno pull and the tune, there was not a car that could hang with me short of a ferarri, I mean, I wasn't used to the speed and the brakes were working overtime to slow me down. had to literally predict when to use the brakes to slow down without warping the rotors. There's a pretty noticeable difference between 286 and 300 to the wheels, thats like what, $360 to the crank? But I don't believe it's worth the potential problems and peace of mind.